Accidental Landlord - tenant has over stayed

davo10

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Im not advocating it. Im just saying if the lease is non exclusive doesnt seem to be a breach of a tenants rights to have another tenant. Happens every day. If that tenant happens to be horrible sometimes people leave

How is the lease non exclusive, if the tenant is renting the property? The op said the tenant has been renting "the house" for 5 years, how is this not exclusive use?


See "Rights as a landlord"

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/landlords_rights_and_obligations.html

Samuel T. Cogley

Surely they've a right ot peaceful occupation?

Sleeper12

Wanderer78 wrote:

This is absolutely disgraceful that landlords are being forced to pay none paying tenants to leave their homes, what a train wreck. Best of luck op

Totally agree but it's cheaper & a lot less hassle than engaging a solicitor & going to court. Every month it goes on a landlord is losing 1500

Lizzie71

Sleeper12 wrote:

Totally agree but it's cheaper & a lot less hassle than engaging a solicitor & going to court. Every month it goes on a landlord is losing 1500

the house is in meath but we never charged the going rate we only ever wanted to cover our mortgage so we were well below market rate, worse fools us. The reason we are selling is its costing us money and we wanted to just move on.We even contacted the council to see if they wanted to but so she could stay as she is on the housing list, but they wanted vacant possession.

Sleeper12

Lizzie71 wrote:

the house is in meath but we never charged the going rate we only ever wanted to cover our mortgage so we were well below market rate, worse fools us. The reason we are selling is its costing us money and we wanted to just move on.We even contacted the council to see if they wanted to but so she could stay as she is on the housing list, but they wanted vacant possession.

If the council bought it with your tenants in it and them being a the housing list, then the tenants would be skipping the housing queue.

No offence intended but you can't run a business without charging the market rate. Many people mistake kindness for weakness. The more of a difference between the rate you charge and the market rate the more likely the tenant will mess you around. There is another thread in accommodation forum & the tenant skipped owing 4 weeks rent and having done I think 15k worth of damage. By comparison if you get tenants out soon then you will be doing OK.

Lizzie71

it was never meant to be a business we were landlord due to the crash

Sleeper12

Lizzie71 wrote:

it was never meant to be a business we were landlord due to the crash

I understand that but unless you had family or friends renting off the you then it was a business. What happens in business is if you charge way below the normal rate you cheapen the product. In the case of renting a home tenants mostly don't appreciate you going so cheap and for the most part they don't take care of your property as much as they might if you change the normal rate. By going cheaper you have a smaller deposit too & that's not good

Nekarsulm

Lizzie71 wrote: »

.We even contacted the council to see if they wanted to but so she could stay as she is on the housing list, but they wanted vacant possession.

Worth checking this out more.
I know for a fact Cavan county council bought houses from Start Mortgauges complete with sitting tenant.

Wabbit Ears

His much has been awarded in the past for illegal eviction?

Assume it's going to take 18 months to remove this tenant and say 10k worth of refurb costs.

Does illegally kicking them out an changing all locks etc work out as the illegal but cheaper option assuming you'd be fined for doing it?

Like say the tenant is about to screw the landlord over for 28 grand ( 18 months of 1 grand plus 10 refurb costs) would the fine be more than 28k

OP. Seriously. Just offer them 2k to leave peacefully.

Lizzie71

Wabbit Ears wrote:

OP. Seriously. Just offer them 2k to leave peacefully.

Money is not her issue at the minute and if i told you who my tenant is you would understand but have to be careful for legal reason not giving her any ammunition

BBFAN

The amount of pompous people who think it's okay to come on this thread and tell the OP what a terrible business person they are is unreal. Get over yourselves.

Anyway OP, it's a terrible situation to be in and the only advice I can give is follow the RTB rules to the letter of the law exactly and eventually she will have to go. By the sounds of it you don't really have any other options.

Wabbit Ears

Lizzie71 wrote:

Money is not her issue at the minute and if i told you who my tenant is you would understand but have to be careful for legal reason not giving her any ammunition

Write to every newspaper and media outlet and see if you can get a story run from your perspective. It would be a good follow up to the article posted on this forum recently.

3DataModem

Lizzie71 wrote: »

i gave her a very good reference along with a letter for her bank to say she had paid her rent for last 12 months.I did everything she asked.

I wonder did the last landlord do that too, and that’s why you got a bad tenant?

Lizzie71

3DataModem wrote:

I wonder did the last landlord do that too, and that’s why you got a bad tenant?

you misunderstand she was not a bad tenant she just turned nasty when refused to leave.

jimmycrackcorm

Wabbit Ears wrote:

Write to every newspaper and media outlet and see if you can get a story run from your perspective. It would be a good follow up to the article posted on this forum recently.

In case you haven't noticed, the media isn't interested in this type of story, only about tenants.

McCrack

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I understand that but unless you had family or friends renting off the you then it was a business. What happens in business is if you charge way below the normal rate you cheapen the product. In the case of renting a home tenants mostly don't appreciate you going so cheap and for the most part they don't take care of your property as much as they might if you change the normal rate. By going cheaper you have a smaller deposit too & that's not good

Not necessarily

If tenants are being charged below market rent then they are more likely to want to stay in the property and not give the landlord any reason to want them out

Sleeper12

McCrack wrote:

If tenants are being charged below market rent then they are more likely to want to stay in the property and not give the landlord any reason to want them out

You would think but it doesn't work that way. Professional landlords rarely have the same issues with tenants as landlords with just one or two properties. You'll find plenty of threads on boards.ie where the tenant did thousands of euros worth of damage but you'll be hard pushed to find a thread by a professional landlord with damaged property. Not saying that professional landlords don't get caught out sometimes but noway near as often as landlords with one property.

jcd5971

Amirani wrote:

Are you deliberately misrepresenting the differences between protesters occupying a house (against a court order) and actual tenants or are you really that ill-informed and ignorant? Find it pretty hard to believe that someone couldn't appreciate the difference, it's hardly subtle...

So much for attack the post not the poster

Nekarsulm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

You would think but it doesn't work that way. Professional landlords rarely have the same issues with tenants as landlords with just one or two properties. You'll find plenty of threads on boards.ie where the tenant did thousands of euros worth of damage but you'll be hard pushed to find a thread by a professional landlord with damaged property. Not saying that professional landlords don't get caught out sometimes but noway near as often as landlords with one property.

Professional landlords are very choosey who they rent to.
Theyll ask for references and check them out carefully, ask for proof of funds, proof of employment etc.
Generally they keep well away from RAS etc.

This isnt fool proof of course. ( one of the most disgusting rentals I ever had to deal with had been rented by a surgeon and his family)

Del2005

Sleeper12 wrote: »

You would think but it doesn't work that way. Professional landlords rarely have the same issues with tenants as landlords with just one or two properties. You'll find plenty of threads on boards.ie where the tenant did thousands of euros worth of damage but you'll be hard pushed to find a thread by a professional landlord with damaged property. Not saying that professional landlords don't get caught out sometimes but noway near as often as landlords with one property.

Professional landlords just don't want to admit they got screwed, that's why you don't see them posting. Also a professional landlord will have the knowledge of how to deal with trouble tenants* so won't need advice from random strangers on the internet.



*You only get the knowledge from experience

Lizzie71

Nekarsulm wrote:

Professional landlords are very choosey who they rent to. Theyll ask for references and check them out carefully, ask for proof of funds, proof of employment etc. Generally they keep well away from RAS etc.

Nekarsulm wrote:

This isnt fool proof of course. ( one of the most disgusting rentals I ever had to deal with had been rented by a surgeon and his family)

I got all the references from employer and TD and from previous landlord did all the checking up thats and suppose it all went well as lo g as she was getting what she wanted.

ooter

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

I have had this difficulty in the past.

The Tenant is protected.

However, it is still your house. You can move another Tenant in unless the Lease gives her exclusive occupation.

Interesting angle.
I'm having some difficulty with my tenant lately, not paying rent on time.
7 years there, exclusively for the first few years but then I agreed to let another family member move in, rtb had no issue with it. I'm anticipating more problems in the coming months and can see me issuing 28 days notice, I've already issued 14 days notice but arrears were paid. I might go down this route if they refuse to leave.
Best of luck op, keep us posted on how you're getting on.

doolox

Why not stop paying the mortgage and let the banks handle the tenant?

Unless they can follow you for any outstanding amount owing after the sale of the house or you intend to borrow again in the future why wait around for an empty house to sell???

Is your own house mortgaged or linked to the house being let?

Do you intend to borrow money again?

It depends on what stage of life you are at and on the financial circumstances of your partner and on your housing status, are you renting or do you own your own principle residence??

A clean credit rating is only worth it if you intend to use it in the future.

If you have a mortgage on your own house the banks may follow up on that and make a grab for your own house in the event of not paying the mortgage on the rented house or there not being enough money left on the eventual sale of the rented house and the costs incurred in getting free and vacant access and title to the rented house.

As far as I know houses have to be vacant and have no tenants in order to be sold.

The nuclear option would be to declare bankruptcy and enter a an insolvency plan. If you do not have a spare €1,000 or so to bribe the tenant to leave then this could be a possibility.

Samuel T. Cogley

The reciver will just lump the fees on to the bill and the OP will be pursued for the debt.

Del2005

doolox wrote: »

Why not stop paying the mortgage and let the banks handle the tenant?

Unless they can follow you for any outstanding amount owing after the sale of the house or you intend to borrow again in the future why wait around for an empty house to sell???

Is your own house mortgaged or linked to the house being let?

Do you intend to borrow money again?

It depends on what stage of life you are at and on the financial circumstances of your partner and on your housing status, are you renting or do you own your own principle residence??

A clean credit rating is only worth it if you intend to use it in the future.

If you have a mortgage on your own house the banks may follow up on that and make a grab for your own house in the event of not paying the mortgage on the rented house or there not being enough money left on the eventual sale of the rented house and the costs incurred in getting free and vacant access and title to the rented house.

As far as I know houses have to be vacant and have no tenants in order to be sold.

The nuclear option would be to declare bankruptcy and enter a an insolvency plan. If you do not have a spare €1,000 or so to bribe the tenant to leave then this could be a possibility.

The reason why we have such high mortgage rates is because the banks are more hamstringed than the OP when it comes to removing people none payment. Not paying the mortgage puts more pain on the suckers who do pay it.

Lizzie71

Del2005 wrote:

The reason why we have such high mortgage rates is because the banks are more hamstringed than the OP when it comes to removing people none payment. Not paying the mortgage puts more pain on the suckers who do pay it.

I would never not pay my mortgage, if we can get her out soon we stand to make some money which i would like to invest in my home which hopefully is our forever home. But if she drags this out we will end up losing any profit on legal fees and she will get free legal aid its just all so unfair.

Samuel T. Cogley

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

I have had this difficulty in the past.

The Tenant is protected.

However, it is still your house. You can move another Tenant in unless the Lease gives her exclusive occupation.

12 (a) RTA 2004 gives them exclusive occupation, only just copped it myself.

Shame.

4ensic15

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

12 (a) RTA 2004 gives them exclusive occupation, only just copped it myself.

Shame.

It depends on whether it is a room letting or a whole unit letting.

Lizzie71

well we have an adjudication with the rtb tomorrow, wonder will tenant even show up.

10pennymixup

Lizzie71 wrote: »

well we have an adjudication with the rtb tomorrow, wonder will tenant even show up.

Best of luck. Genuinely.