Why I'm taking my rental off the market

Pkiernan

I have a nice apartment in a very desirable area that will rent in a heartbeat.

I haven't raised the rent since 2008, and property was last rented at 40% below market rate. I've never been interested in getting the most rent possible.

Last tenant just abandoned the property without notice owing 4 months rent and has left the place in such a state that the kitchen and bathroom had to be entirely torn out and rebuilt from the studs out.

Living room floor so damaged it has to be replaced.

Kitchen appliances destroyed or missing.
Entire apartment needs to be completely repainted.

With the unpaid rent and repairs I'm out of pocket approx 17k euro, and no hope of reimbursement.

He had been there for 3 years with relatively few issues.


Place will be refurbed by end of September and is going on Air BnB, where 120 days a year occupancy will net me more than renting.

If the government restricts short term rentals then I'll just keep it empty and use it as a holiday home.


I'm sure I'm like many others who are sick of having zero property rights over their own property.

Seth Brundle

I'd recommend that you pen this into national media such as the Irish Times as most people are unaware if the hassle from renting and why current policies are contributing to the property problems. Get a bit of fact based discussion going on the topic.

sunnysoutheast

Pkiernan wrote: »

I have a nice apartment in a very desirable area that will rent in a heartbeat.

I haven't raised the rent since 2008, and property was last rented at 40% below market rate. I've never been interested in getting the most rent possible.

Last tenant just abandoned the property without notice owing 4 months rent and has left the place in such a state that the kitchen and bathroom had to be entirely torn out and rebuilt from the studs out.

Living room floor so damaged it has to be replaced.

Kitchen appliances destroyed or missing.
Entire apartment needs to be completely repainted.

With the unpaid rent and repairs I'm out of pocket approx 17k euro, and no hope of reimbursement.

He had been there for 3 years with relatively few issues.


Place will be refurbed by end of September and is going on Air BnB, where 120 days a year occupancy will net me more than renting.

If the government restricts short term rentals then I'll just keep it empty and use it as a holiday home.


I'm sure I'm like many others who are sick of having zero property rights over their own property.

Might be worth a chat with an acct. about whether you can realise any losses you can offset against future income or gains?

Sorry I don't know the ins and outs of it in detail.

Yeah you would be crazy being a landlord in the current regulatory and fiscal environment imho.

Pkiernan

sunnysoutheast wrote: »

Might be worth a chat with an acct. about whether you can realise any losses you can offset against future income or gains?

Sorry I don't know the ins and outs of it in detail.

Yeah you would be crazy being a landlord in the current regulatory and fiscal environment imho.

Repairs tend to be tax deductible alright, but need income to deduct against!

Anyway, I'll see how Air BnB works out.

spurious

Would you consider the high-end rental sector, to Big Four accountancy firms etc. for visiting executives?

niallers1

Seth Brundle wrote: »

I'd recommend that you pen this into national media such as the Irish Times as most people are unaware if the hassle from renting and why current policies are contributing to the property problems. Get a bit of fact based discussion going on the topic.

Media are not interested in these type of stories at the moment. Don't suppose you have any cruel landlord stories? They'll bite the hand off you for those.

ceadaoin.

Sounds like you need to vet prospective tenants better tbh. And raise the rent in line with market rates.

The place can still get wrecked by air bnb guests

amcalester

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Sounds like you need to vet prospective tenants better tbh. And raise the rent in line with market rates.

Not much you can do if after 2.5 years the tenant stops paying.

Also, in a RPZ he’s not allowed increase the rent to market rates.

Pkiernan

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Sounds like you need to vet prospective tenants better tbh. And raise the rent in line with market rates.

Thanks for your constructive input.

Please advise as to what level of vetting will determine if a tenant will stop paying rent after 3 years.

AndrewJRenko

Pkiernan wrote: »

Place will be refurbed by end of September and is going on Air BnB, where 120 days a year occupancy will net me more than renting.

Brilliant - tenants are the problem, so you're choosing a strategy that will get MORE tenants with LESS checking and verification into your property.


Great business strategy.

Browney7

Presumably you had started the RTB process for rent arrears and you are going to pursue through the RTB to get a determination order even if actually receiving any cash is a remote possibility - has tenant left the country and is uncontactable?

GarIT

amcalester wrote: »

Not much you can do if after 2.5 years the tenant stops paying.

Also, in a RPZ he’s not allowed increase the rent to market rates.

They can raise the rent if they have spent €10k+ on renovations.

Seth Brundle

niallers1 wrote: »

Media are not interested in these type of stories at the moment. Don't suppose you have any cruel landlord stories? They'll bite the hand off you for those.

A letter to the editor is likely to be printed and will generate a reaction.

Stoner

Pkiernan wrote:

I haven't raised the rent since 2008, and property was last rented at 40% below market rate. I've never been interested in getting the most rent possible.

I was in that situation many years ago. 2007.

I sold up. However I realised that for the reduced rent I was charging I was expecting the tenants to treat the place better, so i visited it less, took my eye off the ball. Ended up with cockroaches in a house that was gutted and refurbished just two years before.

I guess I was lazy, or too busy, but I didn't nip it in the bud. That was my fault.
I was expecting extra consideration for my property from the tenant because I charged less.

It doesn't work that way.

GarIT

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Brilliant - tenants are the problem, so you're choosing a strategy that will get MORE tenants with LESS checking and verification into your property.


Great business strategy.

You missed a bit, tenants rights with lact of responsibility is the problem.

Someone renting for a weekend can hardly do as much damage as someone there for 3 years, and if they do Airbnb has their credit or debit card details. +Someone renting short term has none of the crazy rights.

road_high

Pkiernan wrote: »

Thanks for your constructive input.

Please advise as to what level of vetting will determine if a tenant will stop paying rent after 3 years.

Ask and seek bona fide references. Employment contract with a reputable firm etc. Plenty of ways to sort the wheat from the chaff and minimize that risk.

ceadaoin.

GarIT wrote: »

You missed a bit, tenants rights with lact of responsibility is the problem.

Someone renting for a weekend can hardly do as much damage as someone there for 3 years, and if they do Airbnb has their credit or debit card details. +Someone renting short term has none of the crazy rights.

What are these "crazy rights" that tenants have? I haven't rented in Ireland in years so I'm a bit out of the loop I guess.

Pkiernan

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Brilliant - tenants are the problem, so you're choosing a strategy that will get MORE tenants with LESS checking and verification into your property.


Great business strategy.

Air BNB guests are held financially accountable for damage they cause.

Don't know why you feel the need to insult me.

jimbobaloobob

Browney7 wrote: »

Presumably you had started the RTB process for rent arrears and you are going to pursue through the RTB to get a determination order even if actually receiving any cash is a remote possibility - has tenant left the country and is uncontactable?

I've yet to hear a landlord say this has been a successful process.

AndrewJRenko

GarIT wrote: »

You missed a bit, tenants rights with lact of responsibility is the problem.

Someone renting for a weekend can hardly do as much damage as someone there for 3 years, and if they do Airbnb has their credit or debit card details. +Someone renting short term has none of the crazy rights.

Yeah, Airbnb had the credit card details - you don't. And Airbnb will keep the credit card details;


https://community.withairbnb.com/t5/Hosting/Guest-trashed-my-home-and-Airbnb-Disappears/td-p/651574


They have a 'host guarantee' but I understand that, like most insurance, it is fairly difficult to get money out of them. You require a police report.


And the OP will need to make sure his insurer is happy with short-term guests.

Pkiernan

road_high wrote: »

Ask and seek bona fide references. Employment contract with a reputable firm etc. Plenty of ways to sort the wheat from the chaff and minimize that risk.

What you propose is de facto discrimination against SW reecipients and is illegal.

road_high

Pkiernan wrote: »

What you propose is de facto discrimination against SW reecipients and is illegal.

Who cares. It's your individual property and have a right to let to whom you chose. If you want to pander to the bleedin heart brigade though be my guest!

spaceHopper

You'll be doing a huge amount of work document it all and if you decide to re rent it put the rent at the maket rate and tell the RTB you did refurb other wise good luck with the rtb

vectorvictor

Struggling to find the point of this thread? I'm gathering that it's that you have something that's in demand and you are not sharing it?

So be it.

Being a landlord comes with risks and you've bottled it when they came home to roost.

If you think that's bad just wait until you see how Airbnb's host guarantee plays out. The headline figures are attractive but after host fees,
tax , cleaning/agency and trying to fill it on a wet Wednesday in November , you'll be back to the rental market in no time.

That's not to mention last minute cancellations, Sara from Copenhagen checking herself out on day one and getting a unilateral refund from Airbnb because the wifi is down or the towels are too rough (they have a guest guarantee too!) Meanwhile you are left nursing the cost of a perishable asset - you can never sell an empty night when the night has passed.

What's new is wonderful until you experience it and you are positioning a choice you have never tried as the answer. Naive.

Fann Linn

amcalester wrote: »

Not much you can do if after 2.5 years the tenant stops paying.

Also, in a RPZ he’s not allowed increase the rent to market rates.

Thought it was 4 months.

jobbridge4life

GarIT wrote: »

You missed a bit, tenants rights with lact of responsibility is the problem.

Someone renting for a weekend can hardly do as much damage as someone there for 3 years, and if they do Airbnb has their credit or debit card details. +Someone renting short term has none of the crazy rights.

That is hilarious. An apartment can be destroyed in a matter of minutes, literally. So who is more likely to respect a place? Someone who is hoping to live in the accommodation long term? Or someone from outside the country who rents it for a couple of nights, who 'forgot' to mention they were renting it for a stag and actually turns out half their mates couldn't find accommodation so they let them stay the night?

The insane victim complex of landlords is one of the most bizarre aspects of Irish life today.

jobbridge4life

amcalester wrote: »

Also, in a RPZ he’s not allowed increase the rent to market rates.

All of us know this is patent nonsense. Rent rates in RZPs have increased by multiples of the limit ever since it was introduced.

Sleeper12

OP you are obviously not suited to the rental business.

First off is has to treated as a business. You should have been charging market value. You should have had regular inspections. You shouldn't have let them fall behind four months rent. If I had a tenant 4 months behind on rent I would expect that they would leave without telling..

Its nice to be nice but many people see being nice as a weakness and take advantage. This happened to you.

You are better off not renting if you don't run it properly.

Sleeper12

Seth Brundle wrote:

I'd recommend that you pen this into national media such as the Irish Times as most people are unaware if the hassle from renting and why current policies are contributing to the property problems. Get a bit of fact based discussion going on the topic.

You should read the opening post again. In this case it had nothing to do with current policies. Everything that happened, happened because op didn't run it properly

Pkiernan

vectorvictor wrote: »

Struggling to find the point of this thread? I'm gathering that it's that you have something that's in demand and you are not sharing it?

So be it.

Being a landlord comes with risks and you've bottled it when they came home to roost.

If you think that's bad just wait until you see how Airbnb's host guarantee plays out. The headline figures are attractive but after host fees,
tax , cleaning/agency and trying to fill it on a wet Wednesday in November , you'll be back to the rental market in no time.

That's not to mention last minute cancellations, Sara from Copenhagen checking herself out on day one and getting a unilateral refund from Airbnb because the wifi is down or the towels are too rough (they have a guest guarantee too!) Meanwhile you are left nursing the cost of a perishable asset - you can never sell an empty night when the night has passed.

Why are you being so aggressive?

I didn't bottle anything.
I do not wish to rent my property again, as landlords are powerless to recoup losses like these.

I will make the same money thru Air BnB with less risk. I don't care if it's empty on a Wed in November.

The point of my thread is that current legislation is actively driving landlords away from renting to tenants.

Don't know why pointing that out has made you so angry.

Pkiernan

Sleeper12 wrote: »

OP you are obviously not suited to the rental business.

First off is has to treated as a business. You should have been charging market value. You should have had regular inspections. You shouldn't have let them fall behind four months rent. If I had a tenant 4 months behind on rent I would expect that they would leave without telling..

Its nice to be nice but many people see being nice as a weakness and take advantage. This happened to you.

You are better off not renting if you don't run it properly.

I've been renting it since 1995. Fully paid off asset worth considerable money.
Some of us don't look for every penny.

You appear to have zero knowledge of the eviction process in this country.

vectorvictor

Pkiernan wrote: »

Why are you being so aggressive?

I didn't bottle anything.
I do not wish to rent my property again, as landlords are powerless to recoup losses like these.

I will make the same money thru Air BnB with less risk. I don't care if it's empty on a Wed in November.

The point of my thread is that current legislation is actively driving landlords away from renting to tenants.

Don't know why pointing that out has made you so angry.

Aggressive ? Angry ? Don't see any of those traits in my posts.

You are incapable of running a basic letting. Now imagine 50plus of those a year , each with their own vagaries and far higher expectations than a standard letting. You will be equally powerless with Airbnb.

You will lose more money through 50 annual risks with Airbnb than you will with one ongoing letting (if managed properly) That is guaranteed.

You will receive daily messages looking for directions , why the wifi doesn't work, why you haven't supplied towels, why the sheets smell "funny", can they bring their extra friends, the light bulb is broken. They will also leave your light and heating on 24/7 and maximise the use of any appliance in sight (expensive to run dryers etc) it's "free" after all.

It is up you how you construed posts that do not match with your expectations of your bright idea. I'm just sharing the reality.

Sleeper12

Pkiernan wrote:

I've been renting it since 1995. Fully paid off asset worth considerable money. Some of us don't look for every penny.

That's very noble but it makes no business sense. You were asking for trouble.

Pkiernan wrote:

You appear to have zero knowledge of the eviction process in this country.

I've never had a tenant 4 months behind on rent and if I had I wouldn't be surprised if they left in the dead of the night. I would expect it.

How you think that it's anyone else's fault is beyond me.

You didnt vet the tenants enough. Didn't change enough rent. Didn't get a big enough deposit. Didn't inspect your property regularly enough. That's all in your opening post. You might have made more mistakes that aren't in the opening post.

You don't look for every penny so will your Airbnb rates be 40 percent below market value or will you charge the going rate? Have you learned your lesson?

Wheeliebin30

No point in doing anything about it, the media, the left and the public in general think that tenants are all law abiding respectful citizens and landlords are evil people.

Cut your losses and sell up.

Pkiernan

Sleeper12 wrote: »

That's very noble but it makes no business sense. You were asking for trouble.



I've never had a tenant 4 months behind on rent and if I had I wouldn't be surprised if they left in the dead of the night. I would expect it.

How you think that it's anyone else's fault is beyond me.

You didnt vet the tenants enough. Didn't change enough rent. Didn't get a big enough deposit. Didn't inspect your property regularly enough. That's all in your opening post. You might have made more mistakes that aren't in the opening post.

You don't look for every penny so will your Airbnb rates be 40 percent below market value or will you charge the going rate? Have you learned your lesson?

You're being deliberately ignorant, and behaving in a way you never would were we having a face to face conservation.

Please explain how monthly inspections would prevent someone trashing the place in one weekend.

Please explain how to evict a non paying tenant in less than 4 months. You could make a fortune advising landlords if you can.

Please explain how you're vetting of tenants will guarantee rent payment 3 years from today.

You're nothing but a keyboard warrior.

I'm happy to Air BnB it. I'll report back next year and tell how I've done!
If it makes less money I'll rethink.

vectorvictor

Pkiernan wrote: »

Please explain how to evict a non paying tenant in less than 4 months. You could make a fortune advising landlords if you can.

You could just follow the law which would have them out in 42 days?

jim-mcdee

Pkiernan wrote: »

I have a nice apartment in a very desirable area that will rent in a heartbeat.

I haven't raised the rent since 2008, and property was last rented at 40% below market rate. I've never been interested in getting the most rent possible.

Last tenant just abandoned the property without notice owing 4 months rent and has left the place in such a state that the kitchen and bathroom had to be entirely torn out and rebuilt from the studs out.

Living room floor so damaged it has to be replaced.

Kitchen appliances destroyed or missing.
Entire apartment needs to be completely repainted.

With the unpaid rent and repairs I'm out of pocket approx 17k euro, and no hope of reimbursement.

He had been there for 3 years with relatively few issues.


Place will be refurbed by end of September and is going on Air BnB, where 120 days a year occupancy will net me more than renting.

If the government restricts short term rentals then I'll just keep it empty and use it as a holiday home.


I'm sure I'm like many others who are sick of having zero property rights over their own property.

Why were you renting it below market rate? Did you think you would get an award for humanitarianism? Trouble tenants can spot a weak landlord like a lion spots an injured zebra. Sorry to say, the business is not for you.

GhostyMcGhost

amcalester wrote: »

Also, in a RPZ he’s not allowed increase the rent to market rates.

Sounds like more than substantial renovations have taken place

DubCount

OP - I'm sorry you've had this experience. Unfortunately, this type of thing happens far too frequently.

The media will not be interested. The common media view of landlords is fat cat vampires, and many commentators are only delighted to see one getting stung.

The RTB is pointless. In the unlikely event you can even find the tenant to bring a case, you would need a court order to enforce it, and the learned judge will be more interested in the welfare of the tenant, than you getting your money back.

Revenue ringfence losses from residential letting, and you can only use those losses against other rental profits.

Official Ireland would have you locked up for steeling from your local Tesco, but steeling from a landlord is fair game.

Why does this story matter? This is the number 1 reason landlords are leaving the long term rental market. Any good tenants out there, the reason for rising rents and dropping standards is this type of storey.

Good luck with your AirBnB business. I hope it brings you better success than your long term rental business.

K.Flyer

GarIT wrote: »

You missed a bit, tenants rights with lact of responsibility is the problem.

Someone renting for a weekend can hardly do as much damage as someone there for 3 years, and if they do Airbnb has their credit or debit card details. +Someone renting short term has none of the crazy rights.

Do a search for AirBnB wrecked homes on YouToob and see what damage can occur.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVSlS0F9WvI

AmberGold

Long story shortend, with current legislation there’s zero value in being a small time landlord. The PRTB are about as useful as a chocolate fireguard. I’ve been thru it all myself.

Is the OP going to have a better experience in his new venture, who knows. Can’t be any worse than where he’s at.

Sleeper12

Pkiernan wrote:

Please explain how you're vetting of tenants will guarantee rent payment 3 years from today.

We ask for employer reference, landlord reference and bank & card statements.

We charge the market rate. Charging 40 percent under value attracts the wrong type of tenant but you know that now. Higher rent =higher deposit

Think of the 10s of thousands in rent that you lost. It's a hell of a lot more than the damage done to the property.

You have other landlords here telling you the mistakes you made but don't want to hear it. Do you really think that you are right & everyone else is wrong?

Look I'm sorry this happened to you but you held your hand out to be slapped and boy did your Tennant slap it.

It is a business. It has to be treated as a business. If you don't treat Airbnb as a business you will fail at that too.

They are starting to regulate Airbnb so it might not be as profitable as before

whippet

I totally sympathise with the OP .. I had to spend €12k to get a tenant out of one of my rentals 6 years ago .. €12k that did not include rent arrears .. I did everything by the book .. but when a tenant stops paying rent and trashed your property and then disappears practically in to thin air it is pointless spending more money on solicitors trying to recoup the cash.

I just sold up and used my capital elsewhere to nett a small but steady income stream

Graham

vectorvictor wrote: »

You could just follow the law which would have them out in 42 days?

You may wish to further your research.

richy

I have a bit of experience renting out a house on airbnb and have had literally zero issues. Having to answer a few questions is literally minimal hassle. I have created templates and I send them a lot of information when they book and I get virtually zero issues. The rent from the summer months alone covers what I would receive if I rented it out on a long term basis for the whole year. Who cares if the winter months are quiet, less wear and tear.

There is more work involved, cleaning the house, making sure there is enough bed clothes etc. You can do this yourself or hire someone to do it for you. Get adequate insurance and kick up a fuss through social media if guests do serious damage. You can put a deposit on the house too if you required.

Eoghan Murphy stated yesterday that he intends to introduce Toronto style airbnb laws in Dublin soon. That means you can only rent your principle private residence for short term lets. Second properties need to be letted for a minimum of 28 days. Still though, you can rent an apartment long term through airbnb for a lot more money than you would get through a long term non airbnb lease. These are usually corporate clients. Had an enquiry today for someone wishing to book for November - March as they are an engineer coming over to work for a multinational for a few months at a rate approx 50% above the market rate. Now I have to pay electricity, gas, cable costs but it could be a good alternative option. They often already have reviews and the property is being booked on a company credit card.

Any questions you have, ask away.

davo10

vectorvictor wrote: »

Struggling to find the point of this thread? I'm gathering that it's that you have something that's in demand and you are not sharing it?

So be it.

Being a landlord comes with risks and you've bottled it when they came home to roost.

If you think that's bad just wait until you see how Airbnb's host guarantee plays out. The headline figures are attractive but after host fees,
tax , cleaning/agency and trying to fill it on a wet Wednesday in November , you'll be back to the rental market in no time.

That's not to mention last minute cancellations, Sara from Copenhagen checking herself out on day one and getting a unilateral refund from Airbnb because the wifi is down or the towels are too rough (they have a guest guarantee too!) Meanwhile you are left nursing the cost of a perishable asset - you can never sell an empty night when the night has passed.

What's new is wonderful until you experience it and you are positioning a choice you have never tried as the answer. Naive.

I registered a property with Airbnb in January and I have been astonished with how easy, lucrative and hassle free it is. I don't worry about guests cancelling last minute because I opted for a cancellation policy whereby the guest is charged if they do. The guests pay in advance so no concern about unpaid rent and are charged a cleaning fee which takes care of laundry etc. The guest's reviews can be checked and though I have never had to claim Airbnb host insurance because even though it has been rented pretty much every weekend since March, there has never been any damage. It may be difficult to claim on Airbnb's host insurance, but tenants don't exactly come with their own damage insurance so it is still an improvement. As another poster said, how much damage can you do in a weekend? I have made twice as much already than I would made in a full year renting to a tenant, so don't think for one second the op or a property owner should feel bad in any way for going the Airbnb route.

You refer to amateur landlords, most landlords in Ireland own single properties, if you would prefer to deal with a corporate landlord, you are being naive, do you think they would charge 40% below market rate. Not a chance.

davo10

vectorvictor wrote: »

Remember we are dealing with someone who can't understand negative sentiment on this thread resulting from a need to announce that they are revoking the amazing community service they have been providing since 1995!

Another amateur landlord gone from the market. Leaving it to the pros is a good idea.

Which community service would that be?

listermint

I hope the government insure that Airbnb laws are pushed like Toronto's.

There's a raft of people on here who think nothing of going the air BnB route and think nothing of the neighbours that live next door to your short term let. You don't pay business rates like equivalent hotels or bnbs . You think it's fine and dandy to run rough shod over it just because Airbnb is a massive organisation.

The sooner the government sorts this out the better. I'd put money down you'd go nuts if your neighbours had 3 different sets of people coming into their house each week .

Bet you wouldn't be a big fan of that carry on.


As for the OP it seems your not really Interested in renting at all your words. Why are you even keeping the place . It makes no sense

davo10

listermint wrote: »

As for the OP it seems your not really Interested in renting at all your words. Why are you even keeping the place . It makes no sense

It makes a lot of sense if he/she is going to rent it on Airbnb and/or keep it for personal use.

Maybe when pushing through Airbnb restrictions like in Toronto, the Government might also push through some new tenancy legislation which offers LL's a little bit more protection from bad tenants and in the process makes renting their properties out to long term tenants safer and more appealing. Personally I don't see either happening any time soon because it would take guts and political will to do both.

appledrop

We are selling up too. We have been very lucky with good tenants who are now leaving the area.

It's a joke being a landlord on this country. Half of the rent goes in tax so we still have a small shortfall between rent + mortgage payment.

We were decent landlords + never increased the rent but pissed me off when government imposed a limit on increase. It's our house shouldn't be up to them. We just aren't bothered with hassle anymore + many more like us.

The homeless problem will just continue as one off landlords like us sell up. The Muppets in power can't see the woods from the trees.

Sleeper12

appledrop wrote:

The homeless problem will just continue as one off landlords like us sell up. The Muppets in power can't see the woods from the trees.

This isn't really true. If you sell then the new owners will live in it. The only way it can add to the homeless problem is if you or a new owner keep it empty. So long as people live in it it doesn't effect homeless figures at all