EV import thread

KCross

DrPhilG wrote: »

And they will!

Only restrictions are that they have to hold it for 40 days after registration before they sell to me.

I'm waiting for word back from the VRT office too. If they will agree to only charge the difference between the UK vat and the Irish, I might just do it that way to save waiting an agonising 40 days.

Plus the dealer could of course do the dirt on me and change their mind about selling it to me!

Sounds promising.

I figured they would need to keep it for some period of time before selling it on. Will they park it up for that 40 days or do they want to use it as a demo? Maybe you could negotiate a reduced price if you let them use it as a demo. You would save on VAT as well on each € they drop it.


Not much reason for the dealer to stiff you really. They'd get bad PR for that. We know you like your twitter rants!

All in all

DrPhilG wrote: »

And they will!

Only restrictions are that they have to hold it for 40 days after registration before they sell to me.

I'm waiting for word back from the VRT office too. If they will agree to only charge the difference between the UK vat and the Irish, I might just do it that way to save waiting an agonising 40 days.

Plus the dealer could of course do the dirt on me and change their mind about selling it to me!

Revenue will charge you 23% vat there is no credit given for vat paid in another member state.

DrPhilG

All in all wrote: »

Revenue will charge you 23% vat there is no credit given for vat paid in another member state.

I've been reading that his morning on a few sites. I thought you couldn't be stung for vat twice within the EU but that doesn't seem to be the case.

Although even the dealer in the UK said that if I paid the Irish vat, they would refund the UK vat if I brought them the receipt.

DrPhilG

KCross wrote: »

We know you like your twitter rants!

!!!

How very dare you...

All in all

DrPhilG wrote: »

I've been reading that his morning on a few sites. I thought you couldn't be stung for vat twice within the EU but that doesn't seem to be the case.

Although even the dealer in the UK said that if I paid the Irish vat, they would refund the UK vat if I brought them the receipt.

But what you are attempting to do is buying a UK car as if you are a UK resident in order to claim grant, you should not be doing this. Because you are doing something that is effectively not by the book you fall out of being covered by legislation in this case. To my mind the dealer would be incorrect to refund you the VAT as he has sold the car to UK address holder, I suspect if the dealer sends this to his accountant the vat refund offer will be withdrawn. You may be able to claim vat refund from uk revenue.

The second option where dealer registers car in his name and later sells to you Vat exempt using your Irish address is obviously completely above board.

KCross

All in all wrote: »

But what you are attempting to do is buying a UK car as if you are a UK resident in order to claim grant, you should not be doing this. Because you are doing something that is effectively not by the book you fall out of being covered by legislation in this case. To my mind the dealer would be incorrect to refund you the VAT as he has sold the car to UK address holder, I suspect if the dealer sends this to his accountant the vat refund offer will be withdrawn. You may be able to claim vat refund from uk revenue.

The second option where dealer registers car in his name and later sells to you Vat exempt using your Irish address is obviously completely above board.

I think you've misread what he is doing. Its not illegal in any way.

He is looking to get it ex Vat for export.... there is a specific UK revenue form(411) for it. Its above board.

All in all

KCross wrote: »

I think you've misread what he is doing. Its not illegal in any way.

He is looking to get it ex Vat for export.... there is a specific UK revenue form(411) for it. Its above board.

That’s not what he is doing though, he is buying a new car and registering it to a UK address in order to avail of grant. If he was buying a new car for export he would be buying using an Irish address and not going through uk registration process.

KCross

All in all wrote: »

That’s not what he is doing though, he is buying a new car and registering it to a UK address in order to avail of grant. If he was buying a new car for export he would be buying using an Irish address and not going through uk registration process.

He's not. The dealer is buying and registering it as a demo car and THEN he is buying it as an Irish buyer using Form 411.
Its no different to buying any ex-demo car from the UK and bringing it in.
He will be paying the VAT no matter what, so no stroke is being pulled.

All in all

KCross wrote: »

He's not. The dealer is buying and registering it as a demo car and THEN he is buying it as an Irish buyer using Form 411

Yes I am aware it is one of the options he is looking at, and as I said previously that is completely above board.

He is also looking at a way of trying avoid the 40 days waiting time, without paying VAT twice, this is not possible.

KCross

All in all wrote: »

Yes I am aware it is one of the options he is looking at, and as I said previously that is completely above board.

He is also looking at a way of trying avoid the 40 days waiting time, without paying VAT twice, this is not possible.

Im not getting your point... where is the illegal bit?

He asked if he could just pay the difference in Vat between UK and Irl vat and its likely thats not possible(he is awaiting revenue response). He hasn't suggested anything illegal or dodgy as far as I can see.

All in all

KCross wrote: »

Im not getting your point... where is the illegal bit?

He asked if he could just pay the difference in Vat between UK and Irl vat and its likely thats not possible(he is awaiting revenue response). He hasn't suggested anything illegal or dodgy as far as I can see.

He is looking at 2 options is my understanding, I’m sure you or someone else will correct me if I am wrong. He asked me a question around one of the options which I am trying to answer but you keep telling I don’t understand what is proposed.

Option 1 - register the car in his name and claim uk grant, pay vat in the UK and try to claim it back after Irish vat paid. This is going to create problems because he should not buy a car using uk address.

Option 2 - effectively buy demo car from UK dealer 40 days after it had been registered, car will be/ should be sold VAT exempt, liable for Irish vat, no double payment.

The OP asked me a question about option 1 above which I did my best to answer.

KCross

All in all wrote: »

He is looking at 2 options is my understanding, I’m sure you or someone else will correct me if I am wrong. He asked me a question around one of the options which I am trying to answer but you keep telling I don’t understand what is proposed.

Option 1 - register the car in his name and claim uk grant, pay vat in the UK and try to claim it back after Irish vat paid. This is going to create problems because he should not buy a car using uk address.

Option 2 - effectively buy demo car from UK dealer 40 days after it had been registered, car will be/ should be sold VAT exempt, liable for Irish vat, no double payment.

The OP asked me a question about option 1 above which I did my best to answer.

Got ya.
Phil can correct me if Im wrong but I dont think he is suggesting option 1 at all.

He was suggesting that he buy the car as a demo, pay UK vat... bring it into Ireland and only pay the difference between the UK and Irl vat as opposed to pay UK vat, pay Irish vat and THEN reclaim UK vat.

All are still above board as you only pay one vat. He is just trying to figure out what revenue in Ireland will accept and its likely as you said that Irish revenue will want the full 23% (not the difference) and he would have to go the route of reclaiming UK vat... which is a pain. Getting it ex Vat in the first place is a better route.

In both scenarios he is buying an ex-demo car. I dont think he is suggesting registering it in his name in the UK. He was toying with the idea of using UK relatives but thats even messier.

All in all

KCross wrote: »

Got ya.
Phil can correct me if Im wrong but I dont think he is suggesting option 1 at all.

He was suggesting that he buy the car as a demo, pay UK vat... bring it into Ireland and only pay the difference between the UK and Irl vat as opposed to pay UK vat, pay Irish vat and THEN reclaim UK vat.

All are still above board as you only pay one vat. He is just trying to figure out what revenue in Ireland will accept and its likely as you said that Irish revenue will want the full 23% (not the difference) and he would have to go the route of reclaiming UK vat... which is a pain. Getting it ex Vat in the first place is a better route.

In both scenarios he is buying an ex-demo car. I dont think he is suggesting registering it in his name in the UK. He was toying with the idea of using UK relatives but thats even messier.

He has confirmed with dealer that demo will be sold ex vat.

KCross

All in all wrote: »

He has confirmed with dealer that demo will be sold ex vat.

Right, which is fine because its a demo(registered to the UK dealer) and being exported.
He will pay the Irish VAT when he imports it here.

DrPhilG

All in all wrote: »

He is also looking at a way of trying avoid the 40 days waiting time, without paying VAT twice, this is not possible.

Correct.

Given that there is no legitimate way to avoid or reclaim the double VAT, my choices are work with the dealer to register it as a demo, or bite the bullet and pay the Irish price.

After the Hyundai Kona debacle, I can't see that being financially viable.

DrPhilG

KCross wrote: »

I dont think he is suggesting registering it in his name in the UK. He was toying with the idea of using UK relatives but thats even messier.

Sort of...

I was thinking of registering the car in my aunt or father in law's name in order to get the grant, then they "sell" it to me and I export it.

Not illegal as such, just exploiting loopholes.

But as you say, very messy. My aunt would essentially be chasing a vat refund. Plus both aunt and FiL are on either pension or invalidity benefit so questions might be asked about how they're coughing up £30k+ on a new car!

I think I'll just bite the bullet and wait the 40 days.

DrPhilG

PS, now that Bjorn Nyland has completed his initial range test, I'm even more sold on the Niro. Fingers crossed this works out!

KCross

DrPhilG wrote: »

Sort of...

I was thinking of registering the car in my aunt or father in law's name in order to get the grant, then they "sell" it to me and I export it.

Not illegal as such, just exploiting loopholes.

But as you say, very messy. My aunt would essentially be chasing a vat refund. Plus both aunt and FiL are on either pension or invalidity benefit so questions might be asked about how they're coughing up £30k+ on a new car!

I think I'll just bite the bullet and wait the 40 days.

I couldn't see the relatives thing really working.
Plus they would have to pay for the car out of their funds. I cant see how you could slip them 38k to buy it and then they sell it back to you even though you paid for it in the first place.... it would look all wrong on paper.

ozmen

Hi Phil, thinking of importing an EV from UK ourselves, can I ask was buying the car as a demo before selling it on to you something the dealer was readily willing to do or did it involve a bit of convincing, just wondering how easy it's likely to be to do the same, thanks

DrPhilG

Took a little convincing and some checking with her manager.

ozmen

Cheers, can I ask as well how are you making the payment? I'm wondering what's the best way to convert euro into sterling and lose as little as possible on the exchange, thanks

gally74

ozmen wrote: »

Cheers, can I ask as well how are you making the payment? I'm wondering what's the best way to convert euro into sterling and lose as little as possible on the exchange, thanks

I use

https://www.currencysolutions.co.uk/

DrPhilG

I use currencyfair. I work in Derry so I have bank accounts on both sides.

slave1

I use OFX, no issues and had the best rates, I phone them up if transferring a good bit and they will beat their online rate

DM1983

Slight sidestep for this thread but I'm sure that someone knows the answer. Currently looking at importing a hybrid and putting lots of alternatives into the revenue calculator. I'm wondering about optional extras. Specifically, for an i3 rex as if I went with this option I would want plenty of spec and the base spec is very basic. During the vrt inspection, will they identify all optional extras present and increase the original OMSP accordingly before putting it through the depreciation calculation?

slave1

Depends on year of car, if more than 4 years old the extras are ignored for VRT purposes.
You're better off reading through the Motors/Buying & Selling Forum as your answer is there

DM1983

Yep brilliant, thanks for that. For anyone else interested, details on depreciation of original cost of extras are below.

Less than 3 months - 0%
Less than 1 year - 10%
Less than 2 years - 25%
Less than 3 years - 40%
Less than 4 years - 55%
Over 4 years - 100%

The "normal" rate of depreciation is then applied to the adjusted original OMSP once the depreciation of extras has been taken into account. Looks to me like extras are "doubly" depreciated which seems strange in an accounting sense but probably reflects the real world scenario quite well.