180 km daily commute - which ev?

meep

I’m starting a new job which necessitates a ~180km total daily round trip. (87 km each way), to be exact

This will be ~50 km N-roads and 130 km motorway (1x toll).

There is no option for charging at the workplace or even nearby so I’m looking at options that would cover that distance on a single charge, year round.

The EV approach appeals greatly but having been through a lot of the iconic and leaf threads, this journey seems to be right on the limit of practicality. Would that be a fair assessment or have I missed something?

I’d be especially concerned about reduced range in winter as well as battery capacity reducing over time.

A charge on the way home would be possible but not practical and if necessary, would probably cause me not to go down the ev route, just yet.

I like the look and toys of the leaf a little more. Currently drive an xtrail and like that. Don’t especially like the Hyundai interiors and while waiting for a kona might be an option, I’m not sure I’d be inspired by the Hyundai feel (had a gen 2 Santa Fe for a while).

So, any insights on whether either a leaf or iconic would be a practical solution for me or should I put things on hold for a year?

All advice appreciated.

celtic_oz

hotcakes

https://www.cargiant.co.uk/car/nissan/leaf/EY64MYA

meep

celtic_oz wrote: »

hotcakes

https://www.cargiant.co.uk/car/nissan/leaf/EY64MYA

Thanks. Was actually thinking of new l40 leaf. Will that one you linked to do 180km without recharge? Wouldn’t think so from what I’ve been reading so far.

Soarer

For an easy life, a new 40 kWh Leaf or Ioniq will cover you year round.

Within 12 months, there'll be a newer Leaf, a Kona and a Niro that'll probably do double that commute.

slave1

meep wrote: »

Thanks. Was actually thinking of new l40 leaf. Will that one you linked to do 180km without recharge? Wouldn’t think so from what I’ve been reading so far.

Not a hope a L24 doing that range and the L30 would not do it in depths of Winter

redlead

Realistically there is nothing currently on the market that will do that without giving you serious range anxiety in winter. Obviously the Jag I pace or Tesla model S would do the trick.

Gumbo

redlead wrote: »

Realistically there is nothing currently on the market that will do that without giving you serious range anxiety in winter. Obviously the Jag I pace or Tesla model S would do the trick.

Leaf 40kwh and ioniq would do it all day long in my opinion.

biko

OP, you rich? If so Tesla S with range of over 500 km
Hyundai Ioniq Electric is around 200 km

Zenith74

Some of the Nissan garages will let you borrow one of the new Leafs for 1-2 days to try it out if you are genuinely considering it, you could then give your commute a go and see how comfortable you feel about it. If you arrive home with anything like 10-20km left I'd be giving it a pass as the smallest detour or need to keep the heat on could scupper you some day.

meep

biko wrote: »

OP, you rich? If so Tesla S with range of over 500 km
Hyundai Ioniq Electric is around 200 km

Unfortunately not, Biko. Is that 200km realistic on single charge and all-year round practical? If so, it might fit the bill.

Tesla would be nice but it financially, it needs to be a Leaf or Ioniq at the moment - unless new job goes spectacularly well!

I'm actually at a bit of a crux. We're a one car familiy but with this new commute for me and a 17 year old hankering to learn to drive, we need to look seriously at significant motoring change.

I'll run the Xtrail for about a month on the commute to see what it's really costing in fuel and then look at either keeping it and buying a nippy runabout for wife/daughter or trading it in against two cars which between them will need to fill the role of commuter, comfortable family car, local runabout and starter/learner.

Older leaf would be ideal for runabout but this needs to double as learner and so needs to be stick shift.

Somewhere in that mix is a hankering for an EV!

80sDiesel

Wouldn't bother with the stick shift. Its all going EV so no need for the manual driving licence anymore.
No EV within your price range will make your trip in winter. 
94ah bmw i3 rex will probably be a stretch for your budget aswell.

meep

80sDiesel wrote: »

Wouldn't bother with the stick shift Its all going EV so no need for the manual driving licence anymore.

I've a feeling she's going to be a classic beetle kind of girl, and no harm at all in learning to drive (and have a full licence for) manual - they're going to be around for a few years yet - why impose limits?

meep

80sDiesel wrote: »

Wouldn't bother with the stick shift. Its all going EV so no need for the manual driving licence anymore.
No EV within your price range will make your trip in winter. 
94ah bmw i3 rex will probably be a stretch for your budget aswell.

Thanks. Was hoping for the hard truth rather than the might/maybe. Deep down, I figured I'd need to wait for next gen range increases (or save for that Tesla!)

80sDiesel

meep wrote: »

80sDiesel wrote: »

Wouldn't bother with the stick shift Its all going EV so no need for the manual driving licence anymore.

I've a feeling she's going to be a classic beetle kind of girl, and no harm at all in learning to drive (and have a full licence for)  manual - they're going to be around for a few years yet - why impose limits?

Quicker to learn to drive without the manual.

meep

80sDiesel wrote: »

Quicker to learn to drive without the manual.

I learned myself in an auto, did the test and got an 'auto limited' licence. I had to retake it again a year later to get the 'full' licence. I found it to be a colossal waste of time (as well as finding myself in the odd position of needing to hold 2x drivers licences simultaneously - a full licence for auto and a provisional for manual).

I'm not saying I don't agree with your points, it's just that I'd be very keen to encourage offspring to get their licence sorted asap. (I have relatives who 'never bothered' to learn and see them struggle with growing families etc).

Bit OT. Sorry.

Soarer

80sDiesel wrote: »

Wouldn't bother with the stick shift. Its all going EV so no need for the manual driving licence anymore.
No EV within your price range will make your trip in winter. 
94ah bmw i3 rex will probably be a stretch for your budget aswell.

What's the OP's price range?

I'll say it again, an Ioniq or a new Leaf will make that commute.

Bluefoam

What about the BMW i3 with range extender?

kilkenny31

You could hang out for this. Should easily cover the distance you want http://m.hyundai.ie/home/kona-ev-coming-soon.html

ewj1978

A leaf 30, not a hope in the winter, best you'd get is 160km.
IMHO at 187km an Ioniq would be a stretch in the winter.(await all the Ioniq lads bashing me :P)
A L40 should be ok in the winter if you don't 120km/hr it up the motorway section.(as UNKEL would like to say "leaf speed" would be needed)
A 94AH i3 rex would do it, but you'd need to burn some fuel each day.
The new Kona will smash it. I understand your Santa fe comments but they're different beasts all together.
Have you looked at the Zoe at all? The 40kw would manage it easily too.

A winter comparison.(doesn't have Leaf 40)

https://insideevs.com/tested-real-world-range-of-8-of-europes-most-popular-electric-cars/

liamog

187km in an Ioniq on a cold wet winters day at 120km/hr would be pushing your luck. Saying that you could probably do Leaf speed and be fine

The Zoe 40 is a reasonable choice, the 22kW "slow" charger could be very handy.

irishgrover

I would politely disagree. If driving at or close to the indicated speed limit then you would be lucky to do 180km in an ioniq, especially if any adverse weather, hills etc . My commute is 130... 105 on motorway, 25 on slower (80km) roads.... My GOM is constantly at 179km fully charged.
For the OP he would need to a.) Reduce speed b.) Get access to external plug for granny charge at least c.) Carry spare underwear

liamog

irishgrover wrote: »

I would politely disagree. If driving at or close to the indicated speed limit then you would be lucky to do 180km in an ioniq, especially if any adverse weather, hills etc . My commute is 130... 105 on motorway, 25 on slower (80km) roads.... My GOM is constantly at 179km fully charged.
For the OP he would need to a.) Reduce speed b.) Get access to external plug for granny charge at least c.) Carry spare underwear

I'm basing my experience on 20 months of driving the Ioniq. 187 is just doable, but I would not want to put myself in that circumstance. When doing a motorway run I plan my charges at 160km and usually have 15/20km left. Cruise set to 125km/h.


It can be done, but I wouldn't plan it unless every petrol station had two rapids!

feichin

As others have said, a new 40kw leaf or an ioniq would probably do it most of the time - but NOT at motorway speeds.
To be honest, it is probably just beyond the comfort zone of most of the standard EV's available at the moment.
Most EV drivers grow out of range anxiety fairly quickly and replace it with range awareness - at that distance the anxiety would be ongoing -
an accident diversion, wind, rain, snow, etc, and you could find yourself in trouble very easily.

meep

Thanks all for the realistic responses. Sounds like I'll be waiting another year for my first step into EV.

Gumbo

liamog wrote: »

187km in an Ioniq on a cold wet winters day at 120km/hr would be pushing your luck. Saying that you could probably do Leaf speed and be fine

The Zoe 40 is a reasonable choice, the 22kW "slow" charger could be very handy.

Don’t forget, only 130km of the journey is on the motorway.

listermint

Reassess the job ?


That commute is plenty long. And mines long but i do it on a motorbike and enjoy it. Your commute is 28% longer than mine.

Sure you really want the job that much ?

Soarer

Do the N roads at N road speed, and do the motorway at 110km/h, and you'll be grand.

What are you going to lose? 10 minutes each way for zero anxiety and massive fuel savings.

I think you'd be mad to wait another year.

_dof_

Soarer wrote: »

Do the N roads at N road speed, and do the motorway at 110km/h, and you'll be grand.

What are you going to lose? 10 minutes each way for zero anxiety and massive fuel savings.

I think you'd be mad to wait another year.

This.
The new Leaf would manage it fine if you stick below 110km/h. You'll save a fortune in fuel with that commute.

Good that the OP is considering degradation though. Say 3% degradation per year then on year 3 with up to 10% less range, on a wet and windy winter day with heater on the whole way, both directions, then you could be looking at getting close to the limit I'd say.

But on those days, drive a bit slower if range starts to look dodgy, or there'll more than likely be more FCPs available, so stop for 10 minutes (I'm assuming there's not one on your route at the moment)

unkel

Soarer wrote: »

Do the N roads at N road speed, and do the motorway at 110km/h, and you'll be grand.

What are you going to lose? 10 minutes each way for zero anxiety and massive fuel savings.

I think you'd be mad to wait another year.

This post makes the most sense. Ioniq can do that trip at motorway speed limit on most days (not 100% confident that Leaf can do it), but if you have a particularly cold / wet day just drive at 110km/h. Both those cars should be fine. What's the problem? Your savings on fuel will be massive, many thousands per year. The fuel saving will 100% pay for you buying a new car. Free brand new car :cool:

But what would take all your worries away is a Kona that could do your commute. Twice. Without charging. In the showrooms shortly. List price expected to be about €35k

meep

_dof_ wrote: »

This.

But on those days, drive a bit slower if range starts to look dodgy, or there'll more than likely be more FCPs available, so stop for 10 minutes (I'm assuming there's not one on your route at the moment)

Well, there are a few charge points en route but exactly what I’d hope to avoid would be stopping off for a ten min top up that takes over an hour because there’s a queue.

Driving a little under speed limit (a limit, not a target!) wouldn’t be an issue for me as I don’t tend to drive fast in any case.

Might be just worth getting a demo leaf to try out......

I appreciate my exact scenario is right on the limit, that’s why I’m seeking opinions. Thanks again.

meep

unkel wrote: »

This post makes the most sense. Ioniq can do that trip at motorway speed limit on most days (not 100% confident that Leaf can do it), but if you have a particularly cold / wet day just drive at 110km/h. Both those cars should be fine. What's the problem? Your savings on fuel will be massive, many thousands per year. The fuel saving will 100% pay for you buying a new car. Free brand new car :cool:

But what would take all your worries away is a Kona that could do your commute. Twice. Without charging. In the showrooms shortly. List price expected to be about €35k

Indeed. I’ve worked out that my fuel/toll bill would be about €4k p/a. I’ll have a more accurate estimate when I’ve done a month of it. That’s where the incentive is for me.

unkel

meep wrote: »

Well, there are a few charge points en route but exactly what I’d hope to avoid would be stopping off for a ten min top up that takes over an hour because there’s a queue.

Or a lot more than an hour. You're damn right. Driving 180km every day + working a full working day is as much as anyone can handle day in day out. You need zero grief on top of that.

ELM327

Ioniq would do this perfectly fine at 120 indicated.
I generally drive at 140 indicated if I'm in at the weekends and still get 165km range to empty, still below 20kWh/100km even with heating on full blast.

If you drive at 120km/h indicated on the motorway segment and the speed limit at the rest the Ioniq will do that trip no problem. I'm doing 4-5km per 4 week cycle in the Ioniq and about 80-85% of that is motorway. You can drive carefully at 100-110 and get below 11.5kWh/100km but if I wanted to drive slowly I'd get a leaf.

Soarer

meep wrote: »

Well, there are a few charge points en route but exactly what I’d hope to avoid would be stopping off for a ten min top up that takes over an hour because there’s a queue.

Driving a little under speed limit (a limit, not a target!) wouldn’t be an issue for me as I don’t tend to drive fast in any case.

Might be just worth getting a demo leaf to try out......

I appreciate my exact scenario is right on the limit, that’s why I’m seeking opinions. Thanks again.

Your scenario of being right on the limit is why you're the ideal candidate for maximum savings!

As for queuing, you can check on the app is a certain chargepoint is free before you get there. Mightn't be 100% accurate, but should help.

You won't need to worry about chargepoints anyway! Get your new EV!

Idbatterim

Just slow down if you need too. Christ , how long do you have to work daily, to pay for what that diesel and any repairs, servicing cost you?

irishgrover

I think that this is a good example of a use case where the OP should be willing to consider some limited compromise because the realistic gains are too great to ignore.... My suggestions / comments
1. Going at indicated speed limit for this commute would leave it very very close.
2. Going at 90% of indicated speed limit should make it reasonably comfortable - i.e. - should do it with 5%-10% left
3. Getting access to any work based external plug or charger (even if you needed to pay for it yourself) would be absolutely worth it -- I would really put home this point, explore all avenues - explain to your employee that you can pay for it yourself, explain to them that even just a simple external socket would do...
4. If you have access to a rapid charger on route then using it on the occasional freezing and stormy days would not be the end of the world. You should be able to judge if you need it based on your consumption on that particular day in those particular conditions (Being stuck at a charger for 20 or 30 minutes really is not that much of a chore, it's "me time" to relax a bit.
5. Get a demo car for the week / weekend, and just do your actual journey a few times. Do it good an early in the morning - it's autumn now and it's nice and cool in the mornings.
6. Given the fact that you could easily save €4k+ a year on fuel, I would really consider the above and try to make it work

Finally - don't lose sight of the significant impact reduced speed has on range when traveling on motorways. I get less range then most other posters on motorways, probably because when I travel on motorways I rarely encounter traffic or reduced speeds.
If you are traveling in an urban or suburban area this is not the case. For example my efficiency between Lexlip and Dublin airport is normally at least 15%-20% better than my efficiency between Galway and Lexlip.... because I might be on a motorway, but I've no longer averaging 120-130kmph....

In summary – work all options to get access to any form of charging at work. In addition get a demo for a few days and repeat your journey 4 or 5 times.

80sDiesel

But would it not make sense to wait for the kona. Certainly easier to sell on the future. He may be able to live with the restrictions but the potential buyers in the future will have to as well.

unkel

ELM327 wrote: »

Ioniq would do this perfectly fine at 120 indicated.
I generally drive at 140 indicated if I'm in at the weekends and still get 165km range to empty

A word of caution here. This summer has seen unbelievable ranges in Ioniq. You are used to this now, but it won't be like that in winter and also not next summer

I reset my consumption figure right at the start of summer and nearly 3 months later it shows 12.0kWh/100km. That's always is sports mode, driving it real hard and a good bit on the motorway network around Dublin (never below speed limit if I can help it)

And everytime I charge the car at home overnight I come down to a car with a 230-240km range. Real life range. With a light foot and not going faster than Leafspeed, I've no doubt it would not be hard to get over 300km

But it wasn't like this last summer. So we need to get a reality check here!

ELM327

unkel wrote: »

A word of caution here. This summer has seen unbelievable ranges in Ioniq. You are used to this now, but it won't be like that in winter and also not next summer

I reset my consumption figure right at the start of summer and nearly 3 months later it shows 12.0kWh/100km. That's always is sports mode, driving it real hard and a good bit on the motorway network around Dublin (never below speed limit if I can help it)

And everytime I charge the car at home overnight I come down to a car with a 230-240km range. Real life range. With a light foot and not going faster than Leafspeed, I've no doubt it would not be hard to get over 300km

But it wasn't like this last summer. So we need to get a reality check here!

My gom shows around 170-175 generally so it's indicative of how I'm driving that yours shows 230-240!.


I know the weather was good/great in the heatwave but there were drives in torrential driving rain in my ownership too. I think that 187km round trip is doable all year round at speeds of 110-120 indicated. Go at 110 in the depths of winter if you need to use the heating but otherwise should be doable at 120 expecially if you preheat. I got 180+ going at 125km/h indicated with over 20km on the gom during a dublin to cork motorway drive earlier in the year remember :cool:

marklazarcovic

What about the newer Zoe ,171 + have the 300 km real world range, should be sufficient enen in winter.

unkel

marklazarcovic wrote: »

What about the newer Zoe ,171 + have the 300 km real world range, should be sufficient enen in winter.

Nope. Renault themselves say 300km in summer and 200km in winter. But that is in mixed driving. Real life 120km/h motorway range in winter is less than Ioniq

ELM327

marklazarcovic wrote: »

What about the newer Zoe ,171 + have the 300 km real world range, should be sufficient enen in winter.

Yes but the Zoe is a gen1 car with a bigger battery shoved in, no fast charging (it takes over 1 hour to charge even the Q cars rated for 43kW to 80%) and very slow and small car.


I can think of many things I'd like to do more than spend 2 hours+ a day in a Zoe, such as eating my own hat.

marklazarcovic

unkel wrote: »

Nope. Renault themselves say 300km in summer and 200km in winter. But that is in mixed driving. Real life 120km/h motorway range in winter is less than Ioniq

This dude did Dublin to Galway and reverse,one charge each time,and had 40+km in charge remaining each time..may not be the most joyus place to be but it is a alternative choice ..


https://www.independent.ie/life/motoring/car-reviews/could-little-electric-zoe-go-coast-to-coast-on-one-charge-36305932.html

unkel

He drove very slowly. Which is not only dangerous but also the last thing you want to do on your daily 180km commute.

Ioniq and L40 can also do Dublin to Galway without charging when driven slowly. Take my word for it, Zoe 41kWh has less range than Ioniq 28kWh at 120km/h in winter

If I were the OP I'd get a Kona 64kWh and never have to think about range again. Drive well over the speed limits too as long as the traffic / weather allows.

ELM327

marklazarcovic wrote: »

This dude did Dublin to Galway and reverse,one charge each time,and had 40+km in charge remaining each time..may not be the most joyus place to be but it is a alternative choice ..


https://www.independent.ie/life/motoring/car-reviews/could-little-electric-zoe-go-coast-to-coast-on-one-charge-36305932.html

AT 90 km/h, I'd rather eat my own face.

marklazarcovic

Haha fair enough , no Zoe for ye guys

meep

unkel wrote: »

If I were the OP I'd get a Kona 64kWh and never have to think about range again. Drive well over the speed limits too as long as the traffic / weather allows.

This reads like sage advice.

unkel

It is also likely to keep its value well. There's no other budget EV on the horizon that can do that kind of range except the Kia Niro (Kia is a sister company of Hyundai)

Long range Ioniq and L60 are pipe dreams for now. And you'll be talking a lot more money for the new VW / Audi range or the Tesla Model 3, none of those will be here for at least another 2 years. And it looks like we indeed will be getting the Ionity CCS chargers very soon

meep

So I had a sit in a (regular) Kona today.

We're actually going about getting a second runabout (looking at i10 and i20) so took the opportunity at the Hyundai dealership to have a peek at a Kona.

Coming from Xtrail, it's quite small with a deficit of rear passenger space. I understand the electric version is a tad longer but I'm not sure if that equates to more passenger space. Otherwise, it felt perfectly fine.

However, I did a quick PCP check on a 37K car using my XTRail as trade in at 5.6% over 2 years. It works out at €341 p/m (13K gfv).
Given I predict I'll be spending ~300 p/m on fuel for my commute, that essentially equates to a 'free' Kona EV for me as I'd expect servioving over 2 years on Kona would be somewhat less that on a 4 year old diesel.

As a point of reference, the car salesman regaled us of a story of a customer who traded his diesel Avensis for an iconiq. He puts up 45K KMs p/a and has worked out his iConiq is costing him €20 p/m in electricity (night-rate home charging with 'free' top-up at work).

unkel

meep wrote: »

He puts up 45K KMs p/a and has worked out his iConiq is costing him €20 p/m in electricity (night-rate home charging with 'free' top-up at work).

Ioniq is roughly €100 per year per 10k km at nightrate, so without work charging it would still only cost him less than €40 per month

ewj1978

meep wrote: »

So I had a sit in a (regular) Kona today.

However, I did a quick PCP check on a 37K car using my XTRail as trade in at 5.6% over 2 years. It works out at €341 p/m (13K gfv).

that PCP is based on what mileage per year?