Do semi auto shotguns in ireland have to be permantly crimped to hold 3 round

cosieman

Or is it legally ok just to have a plastic hunting plug in a semi auto to restrict it to 3 rounds.

Grizzly 45

Yes. The act says "unable to hold more than 3 rounds".[Usually meaning one in the spout, and two in the mag]Doesn't say anything about how you do it,or whether it it must be permanent.

Hack12

Yes if you are applying for a unrestricted licence and no if you apply for a restricted licence.

Cass

As was said by Grizz the act and the SI(s) do not mention permanent. They simply say:

(b) shotguns manufactured, adapted or modified so as to render them incapable of containing more than 3 cartridges,

IOW anyway you have to, to make sure it doesn't hold more than 3.

The same argument (how to render them incapable) was brought up umpteen times about 22 pistols until SI 391/2015 cleared it up. So on that footing, and keeping in mind SI 21/2008 & SI 337/2009 if someone said you had to make it permanent they'd have no legislation to cite and actual legislation that (albeit for pistols) said by any means.

mcbain087

Agree with above posts regarding restricted and capacity. My latest one came with the mag tube crimped and has a restricter removable rod, so 1 in chamber and 2 in mag tube.
If you want a larger capacity I would suggest a discussion with your FAO regarding paperwork and requirements.

Grizzly 45

Embassy cup shotgun is a very good reason these days for a restricted shotgun.

garv123

If people go by 2 in the tube and 1 in the chamber = 3, do they do the same for a 10 shot rimfire magazine? That would make the rimfire restricted because it can hold 11?

Cass

The law says capable of holding, not where its held for shotguns. For pistols they name the mag. So if you have one in the spout and the limit is 3 for shotgun or 5 for pistol then it stands to reason you can only have two in the mag for a shotgun and 4 in the mag for a pistol.

However shotguns and pistols are not used the same so its not like comparing like for like.

In comps you don't go around with one in the spout (in either fiream, but primarily the pistol). You have mags loaded with 5 rounds to keep it under the limit. Also the SI says for pistols a mag capable of holding 5 or fewer rounds.

other firearms using 0.22 inch long rifle rim fire percussion ammunition provided that the maximum magazine capacity of such a firearm does not exceed five rounds and that the barrel length of the firearm is greater than 10 cm.”.

For shotguns you could, i'd imagine quite legally, have a tube that held three rounds as long as there was not one in the spout. IOW a variant on the three round limit.

Not sure if i've written that as well as it sounded in my head, but i think you get the idea.

J.R.

4. (1) Firearms other than those to which subparagraph (2) relates are
declared to be restricted firearms for the purposes of the Act:
(2) This subparagraph relates to the following firearms:
(a) single-shot or repeating short firearms capable of discharging only
blank ammunition;
(b) shotguns manufactured, adapted or modified so as to render them
incapable of containing more than 3 cartridges, but not to shotguns—
(i) with a detached, folding or telescopic stock, or
(ii) with a pistol grip, or
(iii) whose barrel is less than 60.9 centimetres (24 inches) in length;
(c) the following long firearms (not being assault rifles or bullpup rifles):
(i) single-shot or repeating rifled centre-fire firearms of a calibre not
exceeding 7.62 millimetres (.308 inch) and whose overall length
is greater than 90 centimetres,
(ii) single-shot, repeating or semi-automatic rim-fire firearms
designed to fire rim-fire percussion ammunition and with a magazine
having a capacity of not more than 10 rounds,

gunny123

I know in the UK shotguns held on a shotgun cert must be crimped to only allow 2 rounds in the tube. Some of the Turkish semi's were breaking at the crimp, making the gun scrap. Something to watch out for, if the gun is coming in from abroad.

cookimonster

gunny123 wrote: »

I know in the UK shotguns held on a shotgun cert must be crimped to only allow 2 rounds in the tube.....

Not strictly true... have a read of this from BASC:

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://basc.org.uk/wp-content/plugins/download-monitor/download.php%3Fid%3D52&ved=2ahUKEwin25CglpLdAhVpK8AKHbKFBk0QFjAEegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw1psxnog6AgxsXvMuaezaSY.

I had a Winchester pump that wasn't crimped but a lad I knew bought a newer one that was crimped, not sure as to where or when in its manufacture it was crimped.
My auto is not crimped, but I was asked on a renewal as to its capacity, my reply was 'as per the original conditions on my 2 previous licences...'

Grizzly 45

Intresting to see that the UK made a pig's ear of their legislation too post Hungerford on this as well.
The act refers entirely to semi-automatic shotguns and ignores pump action shotguns entirely.Which are distinct and separate from semi-auto shotguns. They aren't mentioned once in this document. Unless they are referred to, coyly, under lever action and bolt action?
Another case of legislating on a technical subject in haste,let the affected repent in leisure.:(

Hack12

If you think about it logically 3 in the tube from purely a safety stance makes more sense than 1 in the chamber and 2 in the tube (unrestricted)........ I wouldn't mention Embassy Cup but rather Target Shotgun or Target Shooting as mentioning a discipline could get you limited to use for that specific use only (restricted shotgun)

Winchester73

Not sure what the reasoning behind the restriction, so you fire three and reload three again, why not leave at gun capacity, most 5-7 and no more than that. I think the two limit in the UK is designed to discourage ownership, no capacity advantage over a double barrell. If that is the case why not just ban them. There is a saying hard cases make hard law, in other words reactionary laws are usually badly thought through. While we have never had a tragedy involving repeater shot guns, we are basing our law on UK events. I would say it needs more straight forward legislation. There are many un restricted items people can use if the want to run around maiming or killing people. Once I am old enough I can buy a nail gun, no restrictions on the amount of nails I can have. I could cause serious injuries in a crowded space with one of those.

Grizzly 45

OKayyy.To get into a tacky discussion on nail guns.You realise they do need to have contact to a hard surface to disengage the saftey mechanism before the trigger will fire them.Also the BP cartridge versions are getting scarce and the more modern ones use compressed air.So unless you are going to hold your victims while towing a compressor to nail them up.You are not going to be the most successful mass murderer. This nonsense about using nail guns like firearms came from Hollywoo( where else!)particularly the Leathl weapon 2film with Mel Gibson&Dany Glover.Of course some mentally deficient politican decided this was a major threat to society,and the story grew legs from there.I hope that hit the nail on the head.

Also the three shot thing is not just the UK it is in most countries hunting laws.An archaic law that went back to the time of market hunting in the late 19th century when professional hunters were supposedly decimating vast flocks of ducks and geese with high cap pump shotguns,or punt guns more likely.

Nothing stopping you having a multi shot gun in Irl or the UK for anything other than hunting.