Merging - who has priority?

Henry Ford III

Henry Ford III

This'll be fun

GBX

A .. assuming B is coming from a minor road.

Stanford

A has priority here as the vehicle already safely on the carriageway, it is up to B to safely merge

Mockba

Hers form the RSA rules of the road.

Joining the motorway
When entering the motorway, be careful and pay attention, and let traffic already
on the motorway pass. You must follow the steps below when joining a motorway.
Use the acceleration lane to build up your speed before merging into
traffic on the motorway.
Signal early to other motorists that you intend to merge.
As you approach on the slip road, check in your mirrors and your blind
spot for a safe gap in traffic in the left-hand lane of the motorway.
Obey road signs and road markings.
Do not drive on hatched markings before merging into traffic on the
motorway.
Give way to traffic already on the motorway.
Adjust your speed as you join the motorway so you match, as near as
possible, the general speed of traffic in that lane

wildwillow

A, unquestionably. Can't see a reason why you might think otherwise.

Thatnastyboy

The biggest vehicle,


or A,

or whoever gets the nose up first

D3V!L

Who ever is driving the BMW or Audi !!

Henry Ford III

wildwillow wrote: »

A, unquestionably. Can't see a reason why you might think otherwise.

Yep. I'd have thought the same about the roundabout thread but there are some folk with truly desperate knowledge/judgement out there.

They probably have their favourite bodyshop on speed dial.

kingtut

D3V!L wrote: »

Who ever is driving the BMW or Audi !!

Well we know B definitely isn't a BMW or Audi

DaveyDave

The thing that annoys me about B cars thinking they have right of way, besides the fact they almost always move over 20 below the limit, is that they move over regardless of if a car is there or not.

Let's say for arguments sake B has right of way, why the feck would you go to move over knowing a car is right beside you? Having right of way doesn't mean you plough into a car.

frozenfrozen

whichever car I am in at the time

antodeco

Now the interesting thing would be if A was a car length behind B!

coolisin

Wanted to vote B for the craic.
Couldn't bring myself to do it.

Odyssey 2005

Do you have a driving licence ?

Alanstrainor

Car A. has right of way. They are already on the carriageway, car B must yield to others. But all you have to do is drive on any road with an on-ramp like this and see what most think of this. On the M50, car A would be expected to move out into the overtaking lane to facilitate B.

loyatemu

for extra craic - I was on the M50 southbound yesterday, moved into the middle lane from the left lane as we were approaching Sandyford and nearly collided with a car moving into the middle lane from the 3rd lane. He was behind me and going faster, there was nothing actually in the middle lane at the time I manouvered (so technically he shouldn't have been in the 3rd lane but I don't think that's relevant here).

I'm not 100% on who was in the wrong - he was behind me, but moving from an overtaking lane. We hadn't reached the lane drop for Sandyford so I wasn't merging from a slip. Anyone?

Gregor Samsa

Mockba's quote from the Rules of the Road really puts it to bed, but just for anyone having a hard time comprehending the simple concept of giving way, think about this:

Imagine B is parked at the side of a road instead of driving on a merging lane. Can you just pull out into traffic and expect to be given the right of way? No, obviously not. Same goes here.

The picture isn't on a dual carriageway, but even if it was, the situation is the same. While it's good practice for car A to temporarily move out to the overtaking lane to let B merge, it's not an obligation, and there's plenty of times that it's not possible from them to do it, so don't expect or demand it. Prepare to merge behind, and then overtake them if appropriate.

I once had an idiot car A (in this exact situation) literally stop dead on a motorway (M18, Junction 13 Southbound) to let me merge, even though I (car had slowed to a crawl to let them pass and safely merge in behind them. They sat there, flashing their lights to encourage me to move out in front of then, while traffic barreled up behind them at full speed. I don't think I've ever accelerated so hard in my life, I just wanted to get out of there so that any pileup would happen behind me and not right beside me.

Thatnastyboy

loyatemu wrote: »

for extra craic - I was on the M50 southbound yesterday, moved into the middle lane from the left lane as we were approaching Sandyford and nearly collided with a car moving into the middle lane from the 3rd lane. He was behind me and going faster, there was nothing actually in the middle lane at the time I manouvered (so technically he shouldn't have been in the 3rd lane but I don't think that's relevant here).

I'm not 100% on who was in the wrong - he was behind me, but moving from an overtaking lane. We hadn't reached the lane drop for Sandyford so I wasn't merging from a slip. Anyone?

I would have said that the other car would have priority on the lane change, not sure if thats correct but my logic follows this:

If I am in lane 1 and want to move to lane 2 - its up to me to ensure lane 2 is clear and that noone is coming from lane 3 into lane 2 as they are - in essence - completing their overtaking maneuvre, where as I am commencing one..

Could be wrong, but in short - traffic coming from my "right" (right being any lane further out than me, or coming from the right at a junction / roundabout) has priority over me at all times.

Shoot me if im wrong, but seems to get me by.

Cordell

loyatemu wrote: »

I'm not 100% on who was in the wrong - he was behind me, but moving from an overtaking lane. We hadn't reached the lane drop for Sandyford so I wasn't merging from a slip. Anyone?

AFAIK in Ireland there is no clear cut rule about this, so if 2 cars that are moving towards the same lane collide, probably they will share liability.
In most if not all continental Europe, the car that "falls back" from an overtaking lane has the right of way.

Henry Ford III

Alanstrainor wrote: »

Car A. has right of way. They are already on the carriageway, car B must yield to others. But all you have to do is drive on any road with an on-ramp like this and see what most think of this. On the M50, car A would be expected to move out into the overtaking lane to facilitate B.

It's good manners to move out a lane to allow merging traffic out, but it's not mandatory and therefore shouldn't be automatically expected.

loyatemu

Thatnastyboy wrote: »

I would have said that the other car would have priority on the lane change, not sure if thats correct but my logic follows this:

If I am in lane 1 and want to move to lane 2 - its up to me to ensure lane 2 is clear and that noone is coming from lane 3 into lane 2 as they are - in essence - completing their overtaking maneuvre, where as I am commencing one..

Could be wrong, but in short - traffic coming from my "right" (right being any lane further out than me, or coming from the right at a junction / roundabout) has priority over me at all times.

Shoot me if im wrong, but seems to get me by.

I would have said the car ahead has priority as you should generally yield to traffic ahead of you (e.g. on a single carriageway road you shouldn't overtake a car that has itself indicated it's about to overtake or turn right) but as I said, I don't really know.

TheChizler

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Yep. I'd have thought the same about the roundabout thread but there are some folk with truly desperate knowledge/judgement out there.

They probably have their favourite bodyshop on speed dial.

The roundabout thread didn't have clear markings, so, apples and oranges.

amcalester

Alanstrainor wrote: »

Car A. has right of way. They are already on the carriageway, car B must yield to others. But all you have to do is drive on any road with an on-ramp like this and see what most think of this. On the M50, car A would be expected to move out into the overtaking lane to facilitate B.

Car A is expected (by some/many?) to drive in the overtaking lane to avoid Car B completely.

Henry Ford III

TheChizler wrote: »

The roundabout thread didn't have clear markings, so, apples and oranges.

Doesn't matter.

There is no roundabout where it's ok to keep in the left hand lane (of 2) and take the "3pm" exit as pictured in that thread.

bitchandmoan

Anywhere else in the world, A moves out to an empty lane outside (as shown) to let B merge.
In Ireland, A says that B feckin won't come in to my feckin lane, I am holding my feckin line. - even when the outside lane is empty.

B is running out of road

When I am B, I get up to the same speed or more than A, get ahead of A, indicate to the right, and pull out. A can go where he feckin likes!!!!

Gregor Samsa

bitchandmoan wrote: »

Anywhere else in the world, A moves out to an empty lane outside (as shown) to let B merge.

Look closely at the picture. There's a double white line to the right of Car A. They can't move out over that. This isn't a dual carriageway in the image.

Even if it was a DC, and the double white line wasn't there, there's absolutely no obligation for A to move over. I don't know the ROTR in every country, but I've driven plenty of times in Spain, Italy, Slovakia and Czech republic, and people generally merge properly there without being "let in" ny cars already on the road moving out of the way.

Cordell

As the matter of fact I've seen cars moving lane to let cars on the on ramp merge more often in Ireland than elsewhere.
Bun nowhere near as much whining :P

In the US of A they don't move, they expect that B will match up its speed and slide in the gap.

Thatnastyboy

phutyle wrote: »

Look closely at the picture. There's a double white line to the right of Car A. They can't move out over that. This isn't a dual carriageway in the image.

It's an ozzie road, they have different rules regarding markings & merging.


Over there- that layout gives car A priority - as it is here, but If the line ended before the close-dashes ; car B would have priority.

Gregor Samsa

bitchandmoan wrote: »

B is running out of road

So what? You don't just barge into someone else's lane because yours is coming to an end. B has to give way to A - stop dead and wait for a gap if necessary. But if you can drive properly, that shouldn't be necessary unless there was a load of vehicles tailgating each other. Match speed, and merge behind.

bitchandmoan wrote: »

When I am B, I get up to the same speed or more than A, get ahead of A, indicate to the right, and pull out. A can go where he feckin likes!!!!

You realise "where he feckin likes" could well be into the back of you? In by book, it's not really worth the effort and risk to main an ill-informed point to the other driver. Merge safely behind, then overtake. You'll be 100% in the right, it takes no extra time, and there's no undue risk.

bitchandmoan

Anywhere else in the world - A moves out to let B merge.
In Ireland - A says B is not coming to my feckin lane, I am holding my feckin line!

Check the motorway from Portlaoise to Dublin any morning 6 to 10am - two lanes stopped dead, next traffic light is in Belfast.
How do the rules work there?

Just to piss of the do gooders
When I am B, I speed up a little more than A, get ahead of A, indicate right - and pull out!!! A can go where he feckin likes!
Most Irish drivers don't know lane driving anyway.

Whatwicklow

Yield to the right. Cat A has priority

Gregor Samsa

bitchandmoan wrote: »

Check the motorway from Portlaoise to Dublin any morning 6 to 10am - two lanes stopped dead, next traffic light is in Belfast.
How do the rules work there?

Quite simple, you wait until someone lets you in.

bitchandmoan wrote: »

Most Irish drivers don't know lane driving anyway.

Given your other comments, this is pretty much the definition of irony

bitchandmoan

Don't mind all the do gooders - B must have priority, he is running out of road.
And it is not possible to drive by the rules of the road - they are only until you pass the test.

2Mad2BeMad

Something similar happened to me Tuesday.
I was merging South bound from finglas on the m50
Car in lane was a good 2-3 lengths behind. Coming up to merging (if anyone knows the finglas merge on southbound you'd know it's pretty long drive before you merge.)

I indicate just before the merge I'm doing 100kph and this girl decides to put the foot down nearly blocking me in. So I just forced my way in why would I hard break because some prat decides to increase her speed as soon as I indicated to merge.

heroics

bitchandmoan wrote: »

Don't mind all the do gooders - B must have priority, he is running out of road.
And it is not possible to drive by the rules of the road - they are only until you pass the test.

You must be just trolling at this stage.

heroics

2Mad2BeMad wrote: »

Something similar happened to me Tuesday.
I was merging South bound from finglas on the m50
Car in lane was a good 2-3 lengths behind. Coming up to merging (if anyone knows the finglas merge on southbound you'd know it's pretty long drive before you merge.)

I indicate just before the merge I'm doing 100kph and this girl decides to put the foot down nearly blocking me in. So I just forced my way in why would I hard break because some prat decides to increase her speed as soon as I indicated to merge.

That’s how you cause an accident. Just slow a bit join behind and overtake. If she was doing same speed as you it’s not a hard brake just slow down slightly. No point saying I’m right from the hospital (especially when your wrong)

TheChizler

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Doesn't matter.

There is no roundabout where it's ok to keep in the left hand lane (of 2) and take the "3pm" exit as pictured in that thread.

Ah but that's not what I said. I'm pointing out how irrelevant it is to use a clear cut, well marked situation to prove a point about a different situation which, at the point of conflict, lane separation is ambiguous.

Remove the dotted line from your picture and we might have a better comparison.

Why essentially start a second thread on it anyway?

Gregor Samsa

Thatnastyboy wrote: »

It's an ozzie road, they have different rules regarding markings & merging.


Over there- that layout gives car A priority - as it is here, but If the line ended before the close-dashes ; car B would have priority.

I've never driven in Australia, but do they have double white lines separating the carriageways over there?

Here's a screenshot from Google street view showing a merging lane coming to an end on the M1 on the way out of Melbourne. broken white line between carriageways just like over here. Maybe there's also situations with a double white line? Anyway no matter, we're clearly talking about Irish roads here.

Henry Ford III

TheChizler wrote: »

Ah but that's not what I said. I'm pointing out how irrelevant it is to use a clear cut, well marked situation to prove a point about a different situation which, at the point of conflict, lane separation is ambiguous.

Remove the dotted line from your picture and we might have a better comparison.

Why essentially start a second thread on it anyway?

I'm the O.P. here. It's a stand alone thread.

Thatnastyboy

phutyle wrote: »

I've never driven in Australia, but do they have double white lines separating the carriageways over there?

Here's a screenshot from Google street view showing a merging lane coming to an end on the M1 on the way out of Melbourne. broken white line between carriageways just like over here. Maybe there's also situations with a double white line? Anyway no matter, we're clearly talking about Irish roads here.

TBH phutyle, I didn't really pick that up in your post, I was focusing on the line between the merging lane and the main carriageway, the central line didn't even come to mind tbh, I have no disagreement on it, just in my error - wasn't what I was referring to at all.

Either way, my whole point was - broken line or not, car A is never required to switch lanes or take any action in Ireland - whereas they may be in the place where the OPs graphic comes from, depending on the line road markings at the end of the merging lane.

mikeecho

ME

Cos I have more powwweeerr and it's made in the reich.

















I'm serious

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

antodeco wrote: »

Now the interesting thing would be if A was a car length behind B!

Same rules apply, no matter where car B is on the merging lane. He/she doesn't have right of way here.

amcalester wrote: »

Car A is expected (by some/many?) to drive in the overtaking lane to avoid Car B completely.

Probably the worst "rule" to follow is expecting others to do anything really, expect the opposite It's nice to give people room to merge if it's possible, but it's not mandatory. People get awful road rage if everybody doesn't accommodate them on the road.

bitchandmoan wrote: »

Anywhere else in the world - A moves out to let B merge.
In Ireland - A says B is not coming to my feckin lane, I am holding my feckin line!

Check the motorway from Portlaoise to Dublin any morning 6 to 10am - two lanes stopped dead, next traffic light is in Belfast.
How do the rules work there?

Just to piss of the do gooders
When I am B, I speed up a little more than A, get ahead of A, indicate right - and pull out!!! A can go where he feckin likes!
Most Irish drivers don't know lane driving anyway.

Well you are wrong there, so maybe you need to revisit the rule book? where is A to go in the picture? Or did you even look at it? There's 3 or 4 pages of posts, it's not that large of a thread to go through.

The Rape of Lucretia

Henry Ford III wrote: »

In the tone of Monica Geller : that's not even a rouuundabout !

Guy:Incognito

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Doesn't matter.

There is no roundabout where it's ok to keep in the left hand lane (of 2) and take the "3pm" exit as pictured in that thread.

......unless the road markings say you can, like at the spawell roundabout (coming from orwell. In Dublin:) )

Wellington Ln
Wellington Ln, Templeogue, Dublin

https://goo.gl/maps/vXFavMbU4Hm



As for this thread, 7 people need to be publicly shamed.:)

cnocbui

I drive a Civic Type R. The situation represented by car B never arises.

Alanstrainor

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

......unless the road markings say you can, like at the spawell roundabout (coming from orwell. In Dublin:) )

Wellington Ln
Wellington Ln, Templeogue, Dublin

https://goo.gl/maps/vXFavMbU4Hm

I love junctions like that. It's very Irish. The rules are the rules, until they aren't, with no prior warning in the form of a sign, only an arrow on the road when it's too late to change lane.

The J Stands for Jay

bitchandmoan wrote: »

Anywhere else in the world, A moves out to an empty lane outside (as shown) to let B merge.
In Ireland, A says that B feckin won't come in to my feckin lane, I am holding my feckin line. - even when the outside lane is empty.

B is running out of road

When I am B, I get up to the same speed or more than A, get ahead of A, indicate to the right, and pull out. A can go where he feckin likes!!!!

In many other countries, drivers are specifically told that they should never move over a lane when traffic is merging. There's even road signs for it (can't remember if it's Australia or Germany).

dr.fuzzenstein

McGaggs wrote: »

In many other countries, drivers are specifically told that they should never move over a lane when traffic is merging. There's even road signs for it (can't remember if it's Australia or Germany).

Well, definitely not in Germany and I haven't seen any in Switzerland or Austria.
However, at a junction on the motorway that I drive every morning there is a solid white line that prevents people from moving into the outside lane.
Everyone will just move out before the white line, so it has the opposite effect that people will move as a matter of course and not only when traffic is merging.

Cookie_Monster

If it's Aus then B ain't gonna be stopping. A really needs to be driving a ute and just PIT him out of the way after that.

EPAndlee

cnocbui wrote: »

I drive a Civic Type R. The situation represented by car B never arises.

Your 16 year old girlfriend must appreciate it