I don't think this is a world I want to live in

dentonmyphone

I've been dealing with some sort of an existential crisis for a couple of years..
I'm a 21 year old male college student.
I apologise I'm just writing this off the cuff.

I am very pessimistic, I stress myself out and I'm nihilistic to a fault.

I went to college with the intention of studying marketing, it's an area I would be good at, my results showed that.
But there's no way I can do that.
I won't..

Marketing is a social science used to sell you things you don't need, it preys on whatever it has a product to counter and there's always a product, that's entrepreneurial.
It sells fixes to addicts..
When you can advertise gambling, that's an indication as a need for change in my eyes.
You are outright advertising an addiction.
As you age you start to develop wrinkles - here's an anti aging cream.
You start to go grey - here use this to look young and youthful, get some botox while your at it..

Social media sells our privacy - for emojis, fake news and fake friendships.
Instant gratification is what gets you to Silicon Valley.
It's all for the money.
Get more likes, add more people, seem more interesting - be more narcissistic.
If you're good enough people will pay you for it.

We are controlled by businesses, we are cannon fodder for marketing - repeat customers are the most important because you've already got them sucked in.

Everything is essential in the first world, getting by now means having money for; food, water, shelter, warmth, uber, fast food deliveries, a car, spotify, a coffee on your way to work, Netflix.
Necessity is a useless word at this point, as is discretionary - everything is a necessity, you have to have it all, you should want it all..

We started to go down hill when we started to develop containers to hold more berried than we needed for that day.
We then had free time, so we filled it, it's to the point now where we don't evolve, we evolve our technology.

Social media is cancerous, as is most forms of media.
When you have people hiring paparazzi, when you have 'influencers' who's whole purpose is to sell you whatever they are being paid to sell then something has gone wrong.
Everything is breaking news, everything is sensationalised, we are flooded with nonsense that meets the needs of our ever shortening attention span.
It gets you angry, it get's you engaged, it gets you clicking - it makes them money.
There is no real news, there are orchestrated news stories.

The music industry is there to sell us something, it no longer takes talent just software.
Controversy is more important than anything - whatever gets the ad revenue.

This world values sociopaths more than people with morals and empathy and it's proven that time and time again.
This world is built for businesses not for people.
This is a direct result of our revolutions our 'innovation', that's why the suicide rate is so high, that's why depression is so rampant, why idiots are celebrated..
I don't think this is a world I want to be a part of.

So where do I stand if I don't want to be a part of it?
What can one depression, anxiety riddled balding 21 year old do to influence change.
The media picks who and what it wants to showcase, it's whatever sells..
Telling people to buy smaller houses, work less hours, spend less money, buy less crap and move away from the malignant world of rampant consumerism where you can buy a t shirt for cents and a happy meal for the same.. that doesn't sell.

We only value education as it pertains to employability, and that's not a given but the debt is.
You can't bribe political candidates but you can fund them as lobbyists.
I don't know how to deal with any of this.

I can't ignore it, I think about it as I wake up, it keeps me from going to bed.
I thought I was the only person to believe this until I watch Manhunt: Unabomber on Netflix..
I don't agree with his means or all of his points but there is some validation.

So do you go live in a cabin in rural Montana?

Sometimes I think I'm mentally ill because everyone else seems happy, and when everyone is saying nothings wrong and you're saying everything is wrong - you're the ill one.

In my eyes we have no real freedom, our privacy is the product sold by social media, marketing is the means to part you from your money, you have to work to live, you have to consume to live.
You can go wherever you want - if you own it all.
We stop at red lights when there are no cars.
Any sense of freedom is false.
Nothing is free.

Realt Dearg Sec

Genuinely, and not sounding smart, you might be totally correct about all of that, but you are also probably mentally ill. Talk to a professional about it. I'm sure I could point out all the ways in which our lives are great and getting better over time, but the problem isn't about reality, it's about your own mindset. I'm not sure I know what you need to do exactly, but I'd contact a therapist.

Gonad

Sounds to me like you are a very intelligent young fella . You were able to articulate into words what many young people (and old ) think about the world and how things are going these days .

It might be impossible to change how the world thinks but have you ever thought of maybe starting your own YouTube channel and venting your thoughts into videos . I am sure here are millions of people who feel as you do and you can put your thoughts to creative pieces and put them out there for people to see and to interact with you .

You have a way with words anyway .

dentonmyphone

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Genuinely, and not sounding smart, you might be totally correct about all of that, but you are also probably mentally ill. Talk to a professional about it. I'm sure I could point out all the ways in which our lives are great and getting better over time, but the problem isn't about reality, it's about your own mindset. I'm not sure I know what you need to do exactly, but I'd contact a therapist.

I agree that our society has changed for the better but I still feel that is heavily outweighed by the negative changes.
Also some of it is questionable whether it really is positive.
Our life span has been drastically increased and we have cured a number of fatal diseases.
While positive for us, it's breaking whatever was left of a natural cycle.
We now consume more as we live longer so while positive for us it's not really natural.
Peoples freedom of self is natural but cutting into someones brain and removing a malignant growth as you test the surrounding tissue with electric impulses to ensure a minimally invasive surgery with little to no long term effects.. that's not is not natural.
But as people we naturally agree that our lives our precious, we want to prolong them.

Can I just find one nearby and ring one up?
I have seen my GP in the past, as well as; the college doc, a psychologist, a counsellor and a psychiatrist, I was told I'm probably a little worked up and a little depressed.

If my attitude is the issue, but my beliefs are correct, what's the end result.
Do I integrate happily into society while having a distain for it?
But because I'm now looking at the positives I just avoid thinking about all that's wrong and all that will probably never change..

The Unabombers approach showed that it just gets your beliefs lamented as a paranoid schizophrenics delusions.
So because I'm not going to go mailing bombs to people - does that still make me less mentally ill?
But I'm probably still mentally ill because I have those beliefs, is that the case?

Realt Dearg Sec

dentonmyphone wrote: »

I agree that our society has changed for the better but I still feel that is heavily outweighed by the negative changes.
Also some of it is questionable whether it really is positive.
Our life span has been drastically increased and we have cured a number of fatal diseases.
While positive for us, it's breaking whatever was left of a natural cycle.
We now consumer more as we live longer so while positive for us it's not really natural.
Peoples freedom of self is natural but cutting into someones brain and removing a malignant growth as you test the surrounding tissue with electric impulses to ensure a minimally invasive surgery with little to no long term effects.. that's not is not natural.
But as people we naturally agree that our lives our precious, we want to prolong them.

Can I just find one nearby and ring one up?
I have seen my GP in the past, as well as; the college doc, a psychologist, a counsellor and a psychiatrist, I was told I'm probably a little worked up and a little depressed.

If my attitude is the issue, but my beliefs are correct, what's the end result.
Do I integrate happily into society while having a distain for it?
But because I'm now looking at the positives I just avoid thinking about all that's wrong and all that will probably never change..

The Unabombers approach showed that it just gets your beliefs lamented as a paranoid schizophrenics delusions.
So because I'm not going to go mailing bombs to people - does that still make me less mentally ill?
But I'm probably still mentally ill because I have those beliefs, is that the case?

What do you actually want to happen?

dentonmyphone

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

What do you actually want to happen?

I haven't really thought any of this through but I've tried to start looking at how it could be changed as opposed to how it is going wrong..

I know the Unabombers approach was go back to a primitive world, let those who are dying die, let those who are sick die, work on surviving each day at a time, you won't have time for hobbies, or existential crises.. and so on.

I don't know how that would work but as I see it:

I think we should live in smaller homes, be smart with your storage.
Tiny Homes are a good starting point but it doesn't need to be that severe.

Live by the methods in The Art of Tidying by Marie Kondo - Keep what brings you value, be selective..
Don't be minimalist with an arbitrary number of things, but be selective all the same.

Work less, you don't need all that money - you certainly shouldn't be giving up an insane amount of it on rent.

Buy clothes from people who make a living doing so, not fast fashion brands that would rather burn clothes than give them away.

Sourcing locally shouldn't be some trendy notion - buy less and buy quality, don't buy from some brand that's tearing up the countryside to add more parking spaces.

Buy sustainable sources of food, I'm not saying to go vegan. I'm not vegan - I like meat, egg, cheese etc.. but I don't like the thought of needless suffering, meat should not be the majority of our diets, it's always a big lump of meat, some filler veg and sauce.
Eat less of it, you shouldn't be able to buy a full meal with the change you find down the back of your couch.

Be held accountable for everything you do and cause, be it positive or negative - it's to your criticism or your praise.
You need to hold yourself accountable and hold those who wont hold themselves accountable.
Brands like Patagonia are a good example - they retain ownership in the sense that they put it out there, they did that, you bought it but they owe that to you, so they will fix it when it breaks, they give back and they hold themselves accountable.

I think that's the big factor, we should act like each of us makes a difference, strive for a positive one and not a negative.
Hold those who would pollute the ocean for another beach house accountable - don't make some BS "People are OUTRAGED at this CEO!!!" 'news' article.. boycott, bring them to court.
It's alien to me that companies like Nestle still get to practice and profit - if you want a smart investment invest in water, that's what Dr Michael Burry is doing, he predicted the housing market collapse.

There's a lot wrong, it's all intertwined, because that's the system.
That doesn't make it any less wrong, it just means it's harder to change..
But that's part of where and how I'd start.
It boils down to greed, and a culture that propagates consumerism.. greed and consumerism are equated to success.

dentonmyphone

Gonad wrote: »

Sounds to me like you are a very intelligent young fella . You were able to articulate into words what many young people (and old ) think about the world and how things are going these days .

It might be impossible to change how the world thinks but have you ever thought of maybe starting your own YouTube channel and venting your thoughts into videos . I am sure here are millions of people who feel as you do and you can put your thoughts to creative pieces and put them out there for people to see and to interact with you .

You have a way with words anyway .

I've shocking grammar and I write myself around in circles, but thank you.

I have thought about it, but it feels like a contradiction - I talk about all that's wrong and do so on a platform like Youtube.
I've grown to hate it;
Get the video to over 10 seconds, so you can maximise ad revenue, you have to have a shocking, brightly coloured thumbnail, a catching title.. so I would be a part of that while talking about how much I detest marketing.

Most people don't seem to care - it's not entertainment, it's not fun when it's questioning your beliefs, it doesn't sell.
People like to feel like they are making a positive change, not being told what needs to be changed, it's no good unless it's inspirational, uplifting or funny..

Youtube gives a false sense of freedom, just like the car, marketing, infrastructure and a number of other things.. I know if I saw a video about those sort of topics I'd think "Yeah I 100% agree, written from my iPhone'.. it sounds like a marketing ploy.

I've thought about writing a book, or a manifesto but those things seem to have a negative association.
There could be some way to work it though.

Thanks.

Realt Dearg Sec

I was really asking what you want to happen in terms of yourself. You have a very specific and honestly scary list of things you want us all to do. Obviously, none of that is going to happen, under any circumstances. If you actually want any sense of happiness in your life, you will have to accept that you can't control the actions of other people. You're also still looking outward, rather than inward, for the problem. All this societal stuff is just what you've latched onto, and I think it's not so much that these are the problems, as your own desire to have control over your world. There's a sense of helplessness to what you're saying. But there's something empowering in letting go of the things that are beyond your control. I guess you need to find a way to do that. And yes there should be therapists available locally, not sure the costs tbh sorry.

In the meantime, a good first step: not repeatedly quoting the Unabomber. Again, not being sarcastic, that is a clear obvious sign that you need professional help. Your own intelligence as a person has nothing to do with whether you have a problem with your mental health. It's best not to believe that just because you are intelligent and insightful about society that this invalidates the fact that your outlook says more about you than about that society.

sabat

The unabomber manifesto is a a good read-I'll give him that-and a lot of what he said makes perfect sense, but you have to weigh that against his actions (life of solitude aside) which made no sense whatsoever and showed that he has a poor grasp of reality. Would a rational person really think that sending random small bombs in the post would change the world?

The truth is you are probably correct-most of the people in the world have been driven insane by consumerism and their relationship with objects. Read Baudrillard-you may at least find some comfort in knowing many other sane, intelligent and 'normal' people feel exactly the same as you. If you haven't seen it then I recommend the documentary 'The Century of the Self' which is hugely relevant to your degree anyway, and will help you understand how this all came about.

dentonmyphone

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

I was really asking what you want to happen in terms of yourself. You have a very specific and honestly scary list of things you want us all to do. Obviously, none of that is going to happen, under any circumstances. If you actually want any sense of happiness in your life, you will have to accept that you can't control the actions of other people. You're also still looking outward, rather than inward, for the problem. All this societal stuff is just what you've latched onto, and I think it's not so much that these are the problems, as your own desire to have control over your world. There's a sense of helplessness to what you're saying. But there's something empowering in letting go of the things that are beyond your control. I guess you need to find a way to do that. And yes there should be therapists available locally, not sure the costs tbh sorry.

In the meantime, a good first step: not repeatedly quoting the Unabomber. Again, not being sarcastic, that is a clear obvious sign that you need professional help. Your own intelligence as a person has nothing to do with whether you have a problem with your mental health. It's best not to believe that just because you are intelligent and insightful about society that this invalidates the fact that your outlook says more about you than about that society.

You make a lot of very good points.

That's where the crisis comes out.
What do I do?
There's always an option to end your own life, I'm not saying that's a good option but it always stands, that's at least a freedom of choice until you let others in on the idea.

So the problem is inward then?
Is it just as simple as though my problem is my problem with the world I live in, or it is a case of the issue actually being in me, the world is perfect and it only lies in me.. I don't know.

There's definitely a sense of helplessness, I can't really just forget about this and go contribute, so if the issue lies within myself and my issue is I have a terribly tainted view of the world and I need professional help, then I am in need of help, I am unable to fix my own conjured up problem.
Or I'm right and I it will never change, so I am certainly helpless if that's the case.

I've posted a lot online about my issues, I never thought of it in this way, I focused on the emotions.
I am completely pessimistic, I am usually somewhat depressed as a result, I get very angry and easily frustrated over small things.
It's only when I start looking at why I am this way that it all seems to come from my beliefs.
My beliefs aren't the result of me reading his manifesto or watching a documentary.
I can wholeheartedly say they are my own thoughts.

I was sent to a psychologist as a teen because I didn't know what I actually wanted from life.. so I said I'd become a surgeon - I'd be financially stable, I'd be respected and useful.
I became very obsessive, easy to anger and constantly driving myself insane..

I now have no interest in that life, I never even had an interest in the subjects but I thought I could forgo everything else in life, dedicate my self to the books and at least have something to show for it.
I didn't care to actual be a person, but I thought if I was doing it I may as well do it as I saw fit.
So I thought I'd go into a field where I would be;
Rich, attractive - girls love doctors, I'd make my parents proud, I'd be well respected and I would feel at least some sense of accomplishment.

Plus I wouldn't have the time to deal with all the problems that popped into my head, much like this one which has been there for years.

There's a lot that troubles me, I've never been diagnosed with anything I just get told I should probably try and talk it out, that I'm probably very intelligent, very critical and the two lead me to not enjoy life, and to hate the society I'm a part of.

Realt Dearg Sec

Oh yeah I'm terms of the issues at have here Adam Curtis is fantastic, and there are any number of insightful and brilliant people to read, Walter Benjamin, Hannah Arendt, and so on, before one would ever think of looking at the UNABOMBER, the name sold probably be a good indication of why he isn't the first port of call!

But when these issues become so central to one's everyday life, so undetachable from one's emotional well being, it's clear that this is not just an intellectual concern, it's a mental health one and quoting Roland barthes is just going to exacerbate those issues unless the problem within oneself is addressed.

dentonmyphone

sabat wrote: »

The unabomber manifesto is a a good read-I'll give him that-and a lot of what he said makes perfect sense, but you have to weigh that against his actions (life of solitude aside) which made no sense whatsoever and showed that he has a poor grasp of reality. Would a rational person really think that sending random small bombs in the post would change the world?

The truth is you are probably correct-most of the people in the world have been driven insane by consumerism and their relationship with objects. Read Baudrillard-you may at least find some comfort in knowing many other sane, intelligent and 'normal' people feel exactly the same as you. If you haven't seen it then I recommend the documentary 'The Century of the Self' which is hugely relevant to your degree anyway, and will help you understand how this all came about.

I definitely don't condone what he did.

I don't think you have to weigh it against his actions, unless you're trying to justify his actions, which in my mind are certainly not justified.
I don't think can justify his manifesto against his actions.

Is there anything in particular you'd recommend from Baudrillard?
I'll certainly give him a look along with 'The Century of The Self' documentary.
I'm thankfully not in that course anymore, I was driving myself insane.
I'm now between courses and I don't know if I even want to study at college level.

I don't know what to do about it, I haven't been able to do anything to take my mind off it unless I'm stupid drunk, and I've thrown up blood as a result so I won't be going back to that.
So I just sleep, or I post posts like this online.

StupidLikeAFox

Would join not consider some activism or volunteering? Maybe join the socialist party - they probably share some of your outlook. Or join some charity perhaps where you could at least make a difference - charities need marketing people and other professionals also so there is scope for a career in that industry too.

Theres lots of crap in the world but there is also lots of good and there are lots of ways an individual can make it better. You are not going to be able to hit the reset button on society unfortunately but there are lots of people who share your outlook and still lead productive lives.

LegacyUser

<SNIP> no need to quote entire OP

Good morning. I'm around 5 years older than you and I've been round the block in terms of existential thoughts. They used to bother me a lot, but now they don't. I share a lot of your views (except regarding music - what you have described seems to just be describing modern pop music accurately but ignoring the rest. Software is not a magic bullet in terms of music. ). But anyway, some possibly useful info if you'd like to be happier:

You're right in that essentially we're sold a lie that overconsumption/materialism is going to make us happy/content. I look at it like this:
Since we've been conditioned to believe that we can make ourselves happy through owning lots of things and from gaining "achievements" based on other people's expectations, it's a shock to the system when we realise true achievements take sacrafice and hard work. But you can become comfortable and content with the hard work if you just make some dietary/exercise/mindset changes I believe.

I disagree that you're mentally ill. Loads of people have these thoughts. I actually think it's a morally good sign that you're not hugely comfortable with all of this.

What has made me a lot more content in the long term is realising the past can't be changed and accepting that. Not judging myself, being comfortable with that. That has been a solid basis for focusing on health and ignoring the instant gratification craze. Basically if you eat well to keep your immune system strong and body healthy you'll feel better right off the bat. Give up as many processed foods as you can and eat loads of vegetables. Do your research on food. I essentially eat mostly veg, fruit, fish and brown bread and I feel very healthy. Getting up in the morning and doing some exercise can be a big help too. I make sure to do this every day.

Your brain is essentially reacting to dopamine in terms of instant gratification. There's only a certain amount of it to go around. You can get the levels up by eating bananas etc. From doing lots of reading on this topic, these things are a "waste of dopamine" and if you give them up/reduce them I think you can be a lot happier on average: sugary snacks, caffeine, gossiping negatively, processed foods designed to taste good but of low nutritional value, playing video games, pornography (I'm serious about that one), watching tv, using social media (particularly for approval) and a multitude of other "quick fixes". If you focus on long term gratification, it'll be hard initially but ultimately it's the best, most practical way to have a lot (and I mean a lot!) more ups than downs in the medium term. This is what has worked for me - I hope it can be of some benefit to you.

P.S. You might benefot from reading one or other of Eckhart Tolle's books.

Teyla Emmagan

So what do you want to change, again? Because you can continue in your current vein if you want to. Many do, you are far from unique in your views and perspective. You need to be aware though that those people tend to be universally avoided because no-one wants to listen to them anymore. They are exhausting. Or you can make an effort to change the way in which you look at this world and reflect it back.

Yellow pack crisps

What can one depression, anxiety riddled balding 21 year old do to influence change.

Change how you see yourself. Deal with your anxiety and do not let it be the master of you, be the master of it. Accept the fact some people have different views than you. That might be as simple as enjoying the things you hate or at best dislike. Accept somebody still has a Father, mother, brother, sister, wife, husband, BF, GF because of modern technology and medicinal science.


The true problem is how you see yourself. The rest is the just the price of sharing this world with other people. You are equally marketing yourself. You are selling and promoting your views. views being the important word here. Business, politicians, lobbyists all have a view to sell ideologies or brands to consumers and they express that view through whatever means possible, a bit like what you are doing right here and right now. It is amazing, actually truly amazing how a persons view can change over night if something in their life changes like meeting someone and falling in love: Bang! a different person, different views. A complete mindset change without logic or reason. The bomber was mentally ill, what strikes me about your admiration for him is the fact that the media made him a star, something you would allow is to believe you detest. The Kray brothers were murderous, vicious and disgusting people and yet in the 60's the media glamourised them, it is nothing new, media is and was the same, just different guises. Before social media you had fanzines, same **** just in paper form. Hitler etc all thrived through propaganda. The bomber you so much admire destroyed lives also, he was mentally ill, he showed no empathy for his victims, he showed no understanding of basic human instincts like empathy. His manifesto could have been written by any pissed of college student, the reason people think it is intelligent is because the media says so. This does not make it fact. He was a coward. You do not have to be influenced by the world around you, you are choosing this. YOU. You won't change the world, but you can make it better, maybe make that your life's goal.

Lemongrease

Look after your own patch lad. Let the world worry about itself

seamus

Lemongrease wrote: »

Look after your own patch lad. Let the world worry about itself

OP, this sounds like a brush-off, but it's realistically the only way to find contentedness.

An individual can make a difference, but can't change the whole world. When we're young we fantasise about the impact we'll have, about the world we'll influence and the notoriety we'll achieve, but as we grow older we come to learn that this is just a fantasy. The number of people who achieve real world-changing influence is absolutely tiny; you've better odds of winning the lotto. When I say "real", I mean long-term, even permanent.
Steve Jobs is a big name now, but will be Steve Who in 50 years time. I'm talking about the likes of Einstein, Alexander the Great and Hitler.

It can also be very disconcerting when you become an adult and realise the true nature of the world. As a child you're sold a more innocent view of the world - people who work hard are successful, famous people are the best of the best, politicians know what they're doing and work for the betterment of humanity. You hit 16+ and it becomes clear that these are illusions; people who have wealthy parents are successful, famous people are mixture of blind luck and connections, and politicians operate almost exclusively for wealth and personal gain.

So it has been since before we could stand - other animal communities see similar dynamics - and so it shall be until the end of the world.

So rather than take on the troubles of the whole world and try to change the habits of millennia, focus first on yourself. Lead by example, not by dictat. Aim for the low-consumption lifestyle that you believe others should follow.

It sounds to me like you feel you'd be good at marketing, but you hate the consumerist nature of the industry. A position in an eco-friendly startup or working with a volunteer organisations sounds right up your alley.

woodchuck

You provided a long list of how you think people should live their lives. You can't control what other people do, but you can control what you do. If this is a list you truly believe in, then go live by it. Why concern yourself with how other people choose to live their lives?

You can't change the world, but that doesn't mean you can't have a positive influence on it. I would strongly recommend that you try some volunteer work. Do something good for society yourself. Even though it's only something small, it should help you feel better about yourself and society in general - you'll likely meet other like minded people who are more interested in helping others than buying into the latest trends.

I also think travelling would be a good idea. It will open your eyes to the world at large - not every society is so consumer driven! You might even consider moving to another country down the line if you find somewhere that particularly appeals to you.

I am completely pessimistic, I am usually somewhat depressed as a result, I get very angry and easily frustrated over small things.
It's only when I start looking at why I am this way that it all seems to come from my beliefs.

I disagree with your conclusion here. You're not digging deep enough. I'm not trying to belittle your beliefs at all, but they're not the root cause of your pessimism, depression, anger and frustration. To deal with these issues, I think you'll need professional help.

Austria!

All sorts of environmentally responsible products and initiatives require marketing too.

Mr. Incognito

Good morning.

I felt EXACTLY like that in my early 20s. Most people do.

You left out Politics. Politics is the art of lying just enough to get elected but not enough that you have to do anything when you get to power. Every political party is exactly the same. Lie, Get into power. Do nothing. Get voted out. Criticise from the oppositoin. Repeat.

The reality is that people are self centered, narcassitic, vain, greedy and violent. I was watching a Vietnam Documentary last night and one of the marines said that bootcamp didnt create killers it was just finishing school. Advertising works because it sells you a product that you are conditioned to think you need.

However, while 90 percent are happy to go along and swim in the stream and pay their taxes and complain about the weather and go to work 9-5 and anesthetize themselves every weekend with alcohol, weed and whatever drugs they can get and get back to the grind while their dreams slip away and they wake up when they are 50 there is a much much much simplier way.

Turn it off.

Social media annoying you- then simply delete it. No one is forcing you to watch narcisstic people post routines of their work outs or their breakfast or their product endorsements or their flesh. No one is forcing you to click here to find out what happened next.

You dont have to watch the news or read the papers. You dont have to listen to tedious love island stories.

You do however, have to stop becoming some sort of victim. If you are contemplating suicide because of these vacous things then you are mentally unwell and you will need to access some sort of support services.

You also should get out of marketing.

Secondly, apart from realising this, and trust me you are not some sort of savant. LOTS of people have figured this out. You are not going through some sort of individualistic awakening. You should wonder that in the midst of all this consumerist orgy that people still manage to live, and love, and grow and raise families, and write beautiful books and music. It is necessary to have all the mass produced crap so that you can have comparisons for actually beautiful and wonderous writing and art and music.

One of the greatest joys in life is discovering a new author or voice that help you see the world.

Bill Hicks.
Hunter S Thompson
Carl Sagan
George Carlin (who I didnt discover until I was 30)
etc.

Sometimes the two can meet. Such as Radiohead who incidently released an album for free on the basis that people could pay whatever they wanted for it.

But these people dont have the answers either. They just have more wonderful and clever ways to ask the same questions and poke fun at society. You should not get into the angry counter culture dangerous tin foil hat wearing iditots that think that the CIA can wipe you out with a laster hidden in your phone.

Thirdly and lastly, you need to make your peace with it. You cannot change the world. You cannot change the fundamental nature of people. It is an evolutionary bi product that we like to gorge, and consume. It is part of the human condition that we are individuals who are selfish. It is part of our social conditioning that we are tribal and will obey the hierarchy unless we are threatened in which case we will overthrow the yoke using violence.

You only get one life. That's it. You can subscribe to whatever belief system you want but they all pedal the same nonsense. Hey, we have the one true answer and all the other answers are not only wrong but you will die in fire forever. Amen.

People are grasping for answers, why. There is no why friend. There only is. You can choose to live your life searching for beauty in this world and creating beauty or you can choose to be self centered and vain.

Even your post is self centered and narcassitc which irony has not been lost on me. Oh poor ME. You are not better or worst than the flashers on instagram who post a no make up selfie for likes.

You dont need anyone to hold your hand here. You need a dose of reality. People are ****. Congratulations.

Now, you have a choice to either live, and go find your own meaning in life so that its happy for you or go off and cry in a cave. Eventually you will realise no one really cares and you can be angry and in the next wave of angry bitter people fighting over nonsense.

Emme

OP I don't think you are mentally ill at all.

"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society. Jiddu Krishnamurti"

However you may need to see your GP to discuss your lifestyle. Proper diet and sleep are very important. you have probably been working hard with your head down throughout your teens and its only now you have time to question what you have been learning and this has led to your early quarter-life existential crisis.

Your results indicated that you would be good at marketing but you would probably be very good at a lot of other things as well. Can you take time out from your studies - maybe go off books for a year? Perhaps you could switch courses or do a masters in a subject that ignites your passion more after you finish marketing.

If you have time to read I recommend the following if you have not read them already:

"Candide" by Voltaire
"Walden" by Henry David Thoreau
"Puzzling People: The Labyrinth of the Psyche" and "Defeated Demons: Freedom from Consciousness Parasites in Psychopathic Society" by Thomas Sheridan
Anything by Noam Chomsky especially "Understanding Power" and "Optimism over Despair: On Capitalism, Empire, and Social Change".

Good luck. Hang in there - the world needs people like you who can see things for what they really are.

seabelle

Hey OP, the first thing to do is go to your GP and explain how you're feeling. It's not that anything you're thinking isn't valid but it shouldn't have such a hold over you that it dominates your thoughts. Sometimes the mind focuses on something external to distract us from an internal issue that's too uncomfortable to deal with.

While you're waiting on a referral or whatever a professional suggests it might do you no harm to investigate some DBT skills and maybe buy a workbook or find a pdf online. It's about developing better skills in managing your thoughts and feelings, it was developed for people with Borderline Personality Disorder but you don't have to suffer from that in order to benefit from its principles. One of the things they teach in Dialectical Behavioural Therapy is radical acceptance, that you have to accept the world for the way it is and it sounds like that's a real stumbling block for you and your happiness. Mindfulness might help you focus on yourself in the moment and not feel as caught up in all the ills of the world.

Good luck.

Ursus Horribilis

OP did you ever go to your GP as advised in your other thread? You are big into self diagnosis which is not a good thing. Leave it to the professionals.

wiggle16

While reading your post it occurred to me how similar the outlook was to Ted Kaczinski's (Unabomber)... then you went and brought him up. Spooky.

You have two options, neither of which is actualy mutally exclusive of the other:

You can try to put energy into changing things.

And, or:

You can accept things the way they are.

What you do need to do, to have any hope of doing either, is to change your outlook on it. I imagine you have some familiarity with the Tractatus: as per the first few lines, the world is all that is the case, and the case is made up of facts and not of things.
Further to that, facts have only the value we ascribe them - there is no such thing as an objective, intrinsice value. You need to find a way to see the value in things and to see it in a different way.

Anyone can be nihilistic (personally i see nihilism as perfectly valid) but where does it get you?

And if you cannot accept the world, then what alternative do you propose?

I do think you should seek help for your mental health. You come across a little unbalanced (no offense), regardless of whether your assessments are correct. And not to be dismissive, but youre only 21. You have barely started out in your life. Don't give up on the world so quickly... you've dismissed life before you've even started living it.

dentonmyphone

Ursus Horribilis wrote: »

OP did you ever go to your GP as advised in your other thread? You are big into self diagnosis which is not a good thing. Leave it to the professionals.

I did actually thanks for asking.

They suggested I go to the free counselling service in college when I start back.

They said I was going to be my own biggest problem, that intelligence can be a curse and that I need to talk through these ideas, emotions and feelings, that I shouldn't settle on the first counsellor/therapist I meet if it doesn't feel like a good fit.

They said I was probably not suffering from any disorder but my frame of mind is being affected and for that in itself I should speak to a professional.

I don't have an outlet other than these postings.
I feel alienated in my daily life, I don't click with most people I meet.
My jokes don't get responses, I get frustrated explaining through everything or just by the topic, that's probably me being narcissistic, and that's probably me self diagnosing.

Ursus Horribilis

I hope you get counselling ASAP because you sound like you're living in your own head and spending too much time thinking. If you're having trouble relating to other people, you may need help with that too. Just stop with the self diagnosing, OK?

dentonmyphone

Ursus Horribilis wrote: »

I hope you get counselling ASAP because you sound like you're living in your own head and spending too much time thinking. If you're having trouble relating to other people, you may need help with that too. Just stop with the self diagnosing, OK?

Where's the line betweens self diagnosing and identifying?
I know when someone says 'I probably have OCD, I hate things being out of place' that's self diagnosing.
But saying I am a very pessimistic person.. surely that's just awareness and introspection.

But thank you,
I definitely do live in my own head, I always have, I've always been that way.

woodchuck

OP you mentioned in your last thread that you hadn't left the house for a week. What have you been doing all summer - any jobs, hobbies etc?

dentonmyphone

Emme wrote: »

OP I don't think you are mentally ill at all.

"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society. Jiddu Krishnamurti"

However you may need to see your GP to discuss your lifestyle. Proper diet and sleep are very important. you have probably been working hard with your head down throughout your teens and its only now you have time to question what you have been learning and this has led to your early quarter-life existential crisis.

Your results indicated that you would be good at marketing but you would probably be very good at a lot of other things as well. Can you take time out from your studies - maybe go off books for a year? Perhaps you could switch courses or do a masters in a subject that ignites your passion more after you finish marketing.

If you have time to read I recommend the following if you have not read them already:

"Candide" by Voltaire
"Walden" by Henry David Thoreau
"Puzzling People: The Labyrinth of the Psyche" and "Defeated Demons: Freedom from Consciousness Parasites in Psychopathic Society" by Thomas Sheridan
Anything by Noam Chomsky especially "Understanding Power" and "Optimism over Despair: On Capitalism, Empire, and Social Change".

Good luck. Hang in there - the world needs people like you who can see things for what they really are.

I see that quote around a lot.

I was a terrible student as a child and as a teenager.
I was in with a bad crowd up until Transition year, I didn't enjoy school (still don't) so I'd get my work done and my homework finished in class and I'd hang around with those who also hated school.

That changed in 5th year, and more towards Leaving Cert, I came out with a good Leaving Cert, but I know I nearly gave my mother an aneurysm from the stress.
I sat in my room and played guitar all day, I faked being sick to get off school, I didn't do homework, I fought with teachers and I pr*cked about with subject choices 'bending the system to my needs' by my principles account.
I got what points I needed for the course I thought I wanted.

Nothing changed between school and college, I just grew to hate the subject matter, the system and the society around it.
I didn't go to lectures, I didn't do assessments, I drank myself to the point of throwing up blood more than once a week.
I didn't even sit my final exams this past year and now I'm changing to a field I'm not even sure I want.

I've always had the time to do this, I spent most of that time distracting myself with whatever I found.

There's a lot I'd like to study, but I wouldn't pay for a degree in it, I chose my field based on my interest at the time and employability.
I enjoy reading (thanks for the recommendations) but I have no intention of being a teacher, becoming a professor or even studying something that doesn't really have good employment prospects..
Because thats what matters - Where are the jobs, and what area of that lines up with your abilities and interests..

I'm going to sound like I'm blowing my own trumpet, I am really not in a position to do that..
I was asked to do IQ tests by a couple of teachers and mental health professionals.
I learn things very quickly, I have perfect pitch, I've had doctors ask if I was ever diagnosed with Aspergers or high functioning autism as it's now called.
I have a cousin who has it, they came to the conclusion I don't but I struggle socially, I don't have the same interests, it shows, my friends know me as me - it's just the way I am and thankfully they accept that, but it's not part of a syndrome.

dentonmyphone

woodchuck wrote: »

OP you mentioned in your last thread that you hadn't left the house for a week. What have you been doing all summer - any jobs, hobbies etc?

I've been applying for jobs but with no luck.
I've been working on a J1 for next summer.
I went to a friends 21st last Saturday - didn't enjoy it.
I've been golfing and I had a lesson this morning too actually.

Smegging hell

I know this is something of a Personal Issues forum cliché, OP, but have you considered joining societies in college? It's just that when I was in my late teens/early 20s I was similarly quite isolated and negative and lived a lot in my own head. Spend hours reading online growing up, underachieved in school but scraped into arts in college. It wasn't until final year that I made friends through the film society in my university as well as campaign groups like the campus Palestine Solidarity Society. Making friends with similar interests to me (cinema, activism, etc) improved my outlook a lot.

But I'd definitely recommend you find a counsellor through your college. Definitely agree with your GPs advice not to settle with the first counsellor/therapist you meet if it doesn't feel like a good fit, that's something I wish I had understood when I was younger. The first counsellor I met I didn't gel with at all. Later found another one with the same counselling service and working with them really ameliorated my issues and helped me see perspectives on my life I hadn't considered

dentonmyphone

Smegging hell wrote: »

I know this is something of a Personal Issues forum cliché, OP, but have you considered joining societies in college? It's just that when I was in my late teens/early 20s I was similarly quite isolated and negative and lived a lot in my own head. Spend hours reading online growing up, underachieved in school but scraped into arts in college. It wasn't until final year that I made friends through the film society in my university as well as campaign groups like the campus Palestine Solidarity Society. Making friends with similar interests to me (cinema, activism, etc) improved my outlook a lot.

But I'd definitely recommend you find a counsellor through your college. Definitely agree with your GPs advice not to settle with the first counsellor/therapist you meet if it doesn't feel like a good fit, that's something I wish I had understood when I was younger. The first counsellor I met I didn't gel with at all. Later found another one with the same counselling service and working with them really ameliorated my issues and helped me see perspectives on my life I hadn't considered

I've tried, I joined the music society, business society entrepreneurial society, and a couple of others, I also went to open mic nights.
They all came across as a way to add to your CV, everyone joined and people signed up to be on the committees but there were no meetings, they tagged their name to events or gave out pizza if you signed up but there wasn't much there for me.

I think I went to college with the completely wrong frame of mind.
I thought I was going to find other like-minded people, maybe find other musicians, start a band, or meet people to come up with a business idea, discuss topics in groups, but all of that only happens when everyones smoking weed.
I was wrong about college, and stupidly so..
It's just people moving on from secondary school to learn subjects to pass exams, who drink and/or take drugs and go out along the way.
I didn't fit in, I don't like techno, I'm not a fan of coke, I don't want to join a sailing club or play hurling for the college.

I had an issue with some 'friends' which I've already wrote about on boards, so that certainly tainted my view..
But college has been the worst two years of my life - that doesn't mean much because my life hasn't been particularly bad, those two years in particular have been the worst.
I didn't fit in, I never found anyone like minded, I ended up spending my nights chasing girls.
I tried to be somewhat productive but when that wasn't working out I just retreated back home to my bedroom and commuted in and out, so I was far more secluded.

I'll probably be commuting this year coming too.

Ursus Horribilis

Even though you say you've had doctors ask if you were ever diagnosed with Aspergers, have you ever been assessed for it? It sounds like the logical step. I'm not a medical person but the more I read of your posts, the more I wonder.

dentonmyphone

Ursus Horribilis wrote: »

Even though you say you've had doctors ask if you were ever diagnosed with Aspergers, have you ever been assessed for it? It sounds like the logical step. I'm not a medical person but the more I read of your posts, the more I wonder.

It was questioned but never went any further.
I had a psychiatrist ask it and then he just said something along the lines of 'nah I didn't think so but I needed to cross it off my list'.

I know a couple of people who have it, and if I'm being totally honest I think I'm higher up than most people but I highly doubt I'd qualify.
I have no need for routine, I can hold conversations well, I know when it's my turn to speak, when someone was joking.. but I do get very vested in ideas, projects and interest.
I use fancy language or I talk quicker than most people..
I doubt I have aspergers, autism or high functioning autism but maybe I'm wrong.. I would have thought it would have been picked up on by some doctor..

SirChenjin

I'm wondering OP, what exactly are you seeking advice on? I mean that in the nicest possible way. I'm just not clear on what you are asking?

Solli

You have a lot observed as a young person and you are very articulate and intelligent. Sounds like your field of interest is politics and philosophy. What is power and how its distributed, mediated and passed on. Fascinating and absorbing, also history will interest you if you are still thinking of college. If you aredeeply interested in something you will excel at it and opportunities will come your way.
Join a cause or campaign or politically active group and you willhave an instant social and intellectual life with like minded people. Read posters. Open your eyes, we are not all like sheep. Many of us stand up for what we believe in and live an anti-consumer lifestyle. It is possible and there are so many interesting people who you’ll meet along the way.
Ive realised it is normal to internalize such thoughts when you areyoung. Many many others have been through exactly what you are going through. A final thought. Travel. Read. Listen.

orthsquel

There are lots of open minded people out there, who think or have thought the same. I studied marketing when social media marketing was in its infancy (then known as e-commerce). I felt for years the same about marketing, but parts of it fascinated me, particularly behaviours. I do feel marketing is the root of all evil, along with the love of money and power. I doubt you will be very happy in marketing unless - pardon the following - you find your own niche in marketing, in the opposite direction of what is considered marketing today. I'd suspect that you're probably someone who has creative intelligence and would be happier something in that general direction, that has purpose, meaning and a way to present an alternative to what is.

Would you consider doing film courses, making meaningful and powerful music videos, films, etc? Music generally is disposable, along with smartphones and most consumer products, but the legends never die. What about theatre writing? Theatre group Brokentalkers recently had a project called This Beach, a play taking on the general attitude in Europe to immigrants. I was at the after show talk, and they went into detail about how it came to be and explored the issue deeply in producing it. Films for Action you might also find interesting.

What I would worry is that you have been obsessively thinking about things, and seemed to have formed circular thinking habits. Do you have intrusive thoughts? Maybe you have gone down a rabbit hole and can't get back because you can't relate what you know and learned to the outside world, but are stuck a bit in your head? These things pass, but you might need help with that professionally to learn not fall into obsessive thought patterns. It's easy too, to form a conclusion that you alone seeing things this way, you can fall into delusion that you are the only person who sees the world as it really is and that the rest are sheep sleepwalking through life with marketing prodding them into buying stuff but that is not the reality when many are awake knowing that trends are fluff dressed as necessity, but trends and fashion have a habit of dying out and people opting out of whatever creates it.

LegacyUser

I think it's becoming clear here, many people have the same thoughts as you. Particularly when you're younger, why younger? Because most people adjust and adapt so they can live their lives in a productive and content way.

A lot of this is driven by ego that your suffering is very important, you can change the world but at the same time, you're sending your primal brain into overdrive, making it perceive there to be threats where there are not. You are on high alert all the time, ruminating and perpetuating the angst and anxiety that feels like it is crushing you. Be very careful, as much as it may seem logical or self-indulgent to give into existential thoughts without managing them (and your own emotions/reactions) this may lead you down a very dark path mentally. I'm not even talking about mental illness, I'm talking about mental wellbeing and the kinds of thought traps which can lead to suicidal ideation.

It's kind of crazy, we're just mammals living on a rock flying through space but we've created so much ****e in the process.

I strongly suggest simplifying your life, it sounds cheesy but find something to work towards and fill your life with things that bring you enjoyment because if you don't you mind will easily fill your life with dread and worry. All while the same world and society exists around you, you need to take charge of how much you let that hurt you and take charge of the life you want to lead.

You can do things to make the world a better place, but please do not take the weight of the world on your shoulders. Your conscious mind and primal brain starts going haywire, and you're already feeling the effects of this. We are just animals, alive for some reason but have the power to make life miserable for ourselves and others or quite nice for ourselves and others. Don't focus too much on all the wrongs of the world but how you can make your life the best it can be, so you have the energy to go out there and make the rest of the world a better place.

Sheepdish1

Would it be possible that you use marketing but in a way that is meaningful and in line with your values ? For example, the are nonprofit organisations that need branding , marketing etc for very real causes that are not “consumer based products”. I understand what you mean about the typical marketing but there are areas that it can help people too. Also remember marketing isn’t something you need to stick with, there’s post grad conversion courses etc if you wanted something different such as social policy for example.

Are there any area that you feel drawn to change ? Helping people ? High lighting issues? I feel that there is a lot of “shallowness” and see that however when one looks a little deeper there are a lot of dedicated people committing there time and every to very good causes😊 I understand you. best of luck op

wiggle16

dentonmyphone wrote: »

They said I was probably not suffering from any disorder but my frame of mind is being affected and for that in itself I should speak to a professional.

I don't have an outlet other than these postings.
I feel alienated in my daily life, I don't click with most people I meet.
My jokes don't get responses, I get frustrated explaining through everything or just by the topic, that's probably me being narcissistic, and that's probably me self diagnosing.

I remember your previous thread. It's great that you are open to engaging with counselling, I'm glad.

The above sticks out to me as a big part of the problem of why you cannot get out of your own head. I can be like that too, to be honest. But you do need to find some sort of outlet to concern yourself with. I hate to sound dismissive, but I really think that a big part of this issue is that you have way too much time on your hands. I know it's not just that simple, but the lifestyle you've described definitely lends itself to brooding and dwelling (and then people start discovering conspiracy theories... not a road you want to go down). Would it be fair to say that you see people's concerns with more "trivial" things as contrived distractions from more important issues?

You also seem quite sure of your conclusions and pessimism. Nothing wrong with that in itself, but you have effectively concluded that everything boils down to money and consumerism. That's not incorrect at all, but it's not the whole picture: just because something is intended for consumption doesn't mean that it does not have other qualities. To pick an example, social media and the internet in general are of course mass marketing tools. That's true. They are also very effective for spreading propaganda. Also true. It can also be argued (validly, in my opinion) that they have provided for the complete emancipation of knowledge and ideas - look at the role of social media during the Arab Spring, for example. Just because something has one quality it does not then absolutely exclude others. You would appear to be concluding, in a lot of your statements, that the quality of being fit or intended for consumption is the most significant quality a thing can have and that because you consider that to be a negative quality then the thing is pointless, vapid and deserving of disdain. As I and others have said, it depends on your outlook and the value you ascribe to things, and that is malleable. You sound like a deep thinking lad but your lens is too narrow. I don't say that as an optimist myself either.

That said, I think that might be a little beyond PI in terms of scope. You clearly need to completely change your way of thinking and operating. I could write about this all night but I'm up for work in a couple of hours!

The only practical advice I think I can give you really is to try to find SOMETHING that interests you and get involved with it. I remember you saying before that you don't stick with anything and you become bored of things easily (I can identify with that too). If you can get involved with something, a hobby, a group, a society in your college, volunteering, anything that interests you at all - then set a date on the calendar, and that's the date where you're "allowed" to give it up, and do your best to stick to that date.
I don't know if that will be of much help to you, but you won't know either until you try.

There are always a million reasons not to do something.

Flippyfloppy

Just going back to the Unibomber, part of the reason there's movies about him is because on one side you had this awful, irrational, unhinged lunatic, and on the other he actually had a good point, that resonates with many. Especially when you look at where we are now with our processed food, device dependence, social influencers and YouTubers.

Many, many people feel the way you do regarding consumerism, in many different shades. From off-the-gridders, to grow your owners, to vegans, to people who redistribute unwanted food to others...Plenty are aware of marketing techniques and their affects. Plenty have things they don't suscribe to in this world.

professore

Check out Jordan Peterson on YouTube. He has some lectures on the search for meaning in life.

Moomintroll99

You could try and find some of the many people thinking about alternative ways of living & become part of their mini communities. There are people out there doing everything from activism to co-ops to subsistence farming to writing - lots of ways to scratch enough of a living and be more true to your ideals. We live over in the west and many small towns have their big city escapees, making pottery or growing organic vegetables or selling alpaca wool jumpers or collecting seaweed or whatever it might be. They're never going to be rich but they get by.

I think if you find like minded people - and there are many of us very concerned about the environment, for example - and feel like part of a community, it will both help you feel better and also provide ideas for ways to make a living using your talents in a way that doesn't feel like a huge compromise.

WOOFing would be one example, or maybe doing some courses about recycling/environmentally friendly/traditional crafts etc & setting up a little sole trader business. It's not just a choice between meaningless 9-5 work and the dole queue, there are lots of other options out there and lots of people exploring them.

cloudatlas

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

So what do you want to change, again? Because you can continue in your current vein if you want to. Many do, you are far from unique in your views and perspective. You need to be aware though that those people tend to be universally avoided because no-one wants to listen to them anymore. They are exhausting. Or you can make an effort to change the way in which you look at this world and reflect it back.

I don't think that's true a lot of these ideas are covered in theology, political, philosophy courses. Russell Brand has a very successful podcast on such topics. There are a lot of political theorists that are very renowned and engaging. Those people are not universally avoided.

Could you change your course to philosophy or politics, I think that sounds like more up your alley, a lot of people are suggesting that the 'cure' is to shut off but I think it would be better if you channeled this constructively in an environment where you can engage with other people on these issues, talk it out. Connect with others.

Bootlegger

Hey op, guess what, life sucks and most people are ****ty, but so what? The gig must go on.

AndrewJRenko

I think the OP might have two possible opportunities to combine his values with his professional skills;

1) Become an anti-marketing expert - one who understands marketing completely, and educates others on how to resist it, counter it, or understand when they are being manipulated. This is important in the commercial area, when we are being sold products and services, and also increasingly important in the political arena, where 'fake news' is being used to 'sell' people and and ideas to us.

2) Become an expert in 'marketing for good' as used by charities or campaigning NGOs to 'sell' good ideas or principles.

No disrespect, but the first thing you need to do as a 21 year old college student is recognise how little you know. No offence, but in any sector, 3rd year or 4th year college students might think they know it all, but they really don't.