RTÉ submits request to Dept to expand TV services but TV3 objects

The Cush

Article in the Sunday Indo - TV3 objects to RTE plan to expand its television services

Commercial broadcaster protests and urges broadcaster to tackle losses


Commercial broadcaster TV3 has strongly objected to plans by RTE to extend its television services, arguing that the broadcaster should tackle its ongoing losses before adding new services.

RTE made a formal submission for the services to the Department of Communications on June 25, with the department seeking stakeholder views in recent weeks.

As part of RTE's new five-year strategy, it proposes new services including an RTE 2 +1 channel - which airs the main channel an hour later - while extending the hours of its RTE 1 +1 station, which currently airs after 7pm each day.

TV3 - which will soon be rebranded as Virgin - is strongly objecting to the plan.

Delta2113

A new plus one channel RTE2 +1 and extending RTE1 +1 - if that's the best they can do - I give up. RTE3 is needed.

I detest plus one channels.

The Cush

We don't have the full details of what was included in the submission.

dulpit

Do +1 channels make any money? In this day and age of the RTE player, DVRs and the like, why bother? Fix the current channels, fix the player, fix the likes of News Now, they would be better options...

dulpit

dulpit wrote: »

Do +1 channels make any money? In this day and age of the RTE player, DVRs and the like, why bother? Fix the current channels, fix the player, fix the likes of News Now, they would be better options..

.

Hopefully at least RTE1+1 will go to 24 hrs a day.

Ireland trains

Maby rte 2+1 will take over from news now
They could alos use the plus one channel for additional sports.
Would the RTE 2+1 be on all day or only evening

political analyst

Ireland trains wrote: »

Maby rte 2+1 will take over from news now
They could alos use the plus one channel for additional sports.
Would the RTE 2+1 be on all day or only evening

No way!



That would mean even less choice on Saorview.



RTÉ News Now is useful for the following reasons:



. Catching a repeat of the latest bulletin - or the Week in Politics - without going onto the Internet.


. The simulcast of Euronews overnight - bringing rolling coverage of world news to those who cannot have cable or satelllite.


. The live broadcasting of some news events, e.g. ceremonies, press conferences.


. The broadcasting of sporting events to which RTÉ has the rights but cannot broadcast on One or 2 due to other sporting events on those channels, e.g. Olympic events and Gaelic, Euro and World Cup matches when two matches are played at the same time.

icdg

RTE News Now been incredibly useful this summer due to the proliferation of sporting events and, for the first time, simultaneous GAA matches. For example last Sunday week there was GAA on RTE One (Donegal v Tyrone), Two (the wrap of Clare v Galway, which was followed by the Women’s Field Hockey World Cup final)and News Now (Dublin v Roscommon) at the same time. Given that RTE seemed to previously have a stance that they couldn’t for regulatory reasons show any sport on the channel it was a surprise but a welcome one. It’d be a pity, given how terrible streaming on the RTE player has been in the past, if they were to lose that extra broadcast outlet for sport now.

liam7831

Delta2113 wrote:

A new plus one channel RTE2 +1 and extending RTE1 +1 - if that's the best they can do - I give up. RTE3 is needed.

Delta2113 wrote:

I detest plus one channels.

+1

Harry Palmr

dulpit wrote: »

Do +1 channels make any money? In this day and age of the RTE player, DVRs and the like, why bother? Fix the current channels, fix the player, fix the likes of News Now, they would be better options...

In theory they do as advertising income (your ad is seen twice as all) takes account of the extra transmission costs. Mind you I'd not be shocked if RTE forgot to add the +1 rates

I'd have more sympathy for Virgin if their channels weren't so shoddy on saorview.

Ireland trains

political analyst wrote: »

Ireland trains wrote: »

Maby rte 2+1 will take over from news now
They could alos use the plus one channel for additional sports.
Would the RTE 2+1 be on all day or only evening

No way!



That would mean even less choice on Saorview.



RTÉ News Now is useful for the following reasons:



. Catching a repeat of the latest bulletin - or the Week in Politics - without going onto the Internet.


. The simulcast of Euronews overnight - bringing rolling coverage of world news to those who cannot have cable or satelllite.


. The live broadcasting of some news events, e.g. ceremonies, press conferences.


. The broadcasting of sporting events to which RTÉ has the rights but cannot broadcast on One or 2 due to other sporting events on those channels, e.g. Olympic events and Gaelic, Euro and World Cup matches when two matches are played at the same time.

I personally think rte news now is very good (especially for sports) but i was referring to RTE wanting to get rid of the channel

Elmo

It would be nice to see this proposal but again the audience are kept in the dark.

I would say that this is what the proposal says, but in about 20 pages:-

1. News Now to be axed
2. RTÉ ONE +1 to be extended to a full channel
3. RTÉ 2 +1 TO to air from 7pm each night
4. Removal of RTÉjr from RTÉ2

So basically your getting nowt new just News Now replaced by RTÉ ONE +1 and RTÉ ONE+1 replaced by RTÉ2+1

but said in 20 pages.

political analyst

Elmo wrote: »

It would be nice to see this proposal but again the audience are kept in the dark.

I would say that this is what the proposal says, but in about 20 pages:-

1. News Now to be axed
2. RTÉ ONE +1 to be extended to a full channel
3. RTÉ 2 +1 TO to air from 7pm each night
4. Removal of RTÉjr from RTÉ2

So basically your getting nowt new just News Now replaced by RTÉ ONE +1 and RTÉ ONE+1 replaced by RTÉ2+1

but said in 20 pages.

What evidence is there that the idea of axing News Now is in the document submitted by RTÉ?

Tigerandahalf

We have known for a while that the News Now channel was going to be asked?
https://www.independent.ie/business/media/rte-to-axe-tv-news-channel-as-services-hit-by-financial-woes-36393796.html

So I guess as Elmo says they will probably just replace it with a zero cost +1 channel. I can see why Virgin/tv3 are up in arms as the +1 channel would be likely to attract extra ad revenue.

Realistically these channels need to go to HD. Who wants to watch a live sports event in SD quality when over on the bbc or itv it is in HD. I know there are costs for carriage in HD so we are mostly likely to see a +1 channel in SD.

The rte news now channel was handy when the storm/snow was happening and the info on it was relevant to Ireland only - that was a very valuable service. Would that be lost or could it be run on the +1 channel? I am sure a big bone of contention here is whether the +1 channel can carry ads.

Elmo

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

I can see why Virgin/tv3 are up in arms as the +1 channel would be likely to attract extra ad revenue.

+1 generally split the current audience of the channel, rarely adding new audiences. If TV3 honestly beleive that RTÉ might gain an audience with +1s then they can always launch +1 channels of their own across all platforms.

When I say split I mean take a few people away from the live channel.

Tigerandahalf

Elmo wrote: »

+1 generally split the current audience of the channel, rarely adding new audiences. If TV3 honestly beleive that RTÉ might gain an audience with +1s then they can always launch +1 channels of their own across all platforms.

When I say split I mean take a few people away from the live channel.

I guess it depends where on the epg the +1 channels are. Some epgs now have them in a separate tab section. They certainly have a draw, like you are watching a live sport event and have just missed an event, like the athletics last night where I missed Ciara MaGeehan running. You could catch it again on the +1 channel. I ended up watching it on the timeshift on the bbc. The Saorview Connect box still has no timeshift function.

With catchup tv improving I do wonder whether +1 channels will have a future.

brick man

I would get it very hard to see minister approving the axing of News Now channel . As said in earlier posts it was to the fore during storms Emma and Ophelia and rebroadcast on RTE One . When you go to hotels pubs airports etc you will often come across news now being shown . But RTE have never been given a chance with it not being allowed to advertise on the channel . But RTE are seriously lacking that the first tv news is not until 1pm now and last bulletin at 9pm which is just not good enough given we subsidise it . I think they are focusing too much on online when they are primarily there to provide a radio and television service, yes focus online but not at the expense of tv.
As for TV3 objecting to RTE proposals surely nobody thought anything different would happen.....

Tigerandahalf

There is an argument to be made that the News Now channel should be state funded (outside of other contributions). It should be there to provide necessary information in times of storms and other emergencies. There is no guarantee you would have an internet service in a major storm with fibre being run along poles.

It could also be used in times of elections and other important occasions and have it on display in public areas like train/bus stations, hospitals, etc. Whether that is enough to warrant funding of a sole station with no ads is another matter. Clearly the bosses in rte see no future with it.

SPDUB

It's interesting to note that the people who would actually use these services , you know the viewers , apparently aren't stakeholders

JDxtra

TV3 love a good objection.

They've caused the mess with Saorview and are continuing to be a pain in the neck here. Thought that might change when Virgin took over, but I guess not.

fritzelly

Need some kind of good excuse to increase the licence fee.
Seriously losing millions but lets spend more money to show repeats again an hour later

political analyst

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

There is an argument to be made that the News Now channel should be state funded (outside of other contributions). It should be there to provide necessary information in times of storms and other emergencies. There is no guarantee you would have an internet service in a major storm with fibre being run along poles.

It could also be used in times of elections and other important occasions and have it on display in public areas like train/bus stations, hospitals, etc. Whether that is enough to warrant funding of a sole station with no ads is another matter. Clearly the bosses in rte see no future with it.

Isn't News Now run on a shoestring budget anyway?

political analyst

brick man wrote: »

I would get it very hard to see minister approving the axing of News Now channel . As said in earlier posts it was to the fore during storms Emma and Ophelia and rebroadcast on RTE One . When you go to hotels pubs airports etc you will often come across news now being shown . But RTE have never been given a chance with it not being allowed to advertise on the channel . But RTE are seriously lacking that the first tv news is not until 1pm now and last bulletin at 9pm which is just not good enough given we subsidise it . I think they are focusing too much on online when they are primarily there to provide a radio and television service, yes focus online but not at the expense of tv.
As for TV3 objecting to RTE proposals surely nobody thought anything different would happen.....

All the more reason for the Department of Communications to take RTÉ down a peg or two!

political analyst

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

We have known for a while that the News Now channel was going to be asked?
https://www.independent.ie/business/media/rte-to-axe-tv-news-channel-as-services-hit-by-financial-woes-36393796.html

So I guess as Elmo says they will probably just replace it with a zero cost +1 channel. I can see why Virgin/tv3 are up in arms as the +1 channel would be likely to attract extra ad revenue.

Realistically these channels need to go to HD. Who wants to watch a live sports event in SD quality when over on the bbc or itv it is in HD. I know there are costs for carriage in HD so we are mostly likely to see a +1 channel in SD.

The rte news now channel was handy when the storm/snow was happening and the info on it was relevant to Ireland only - that was a very valuable service. Would that be lost or could it be run on the +1 channel? I am sure a big bone of contention here is whether the +1 channel can carry ads.

It hasn't been decided yet!

Elmo

brick man wrote: »

I think they are focusing too much on online when they are primarily there to provide a radio and television service, yes focus online but not at the expense of tv.

Also RTÉ have very little content and short form content is really only suitable to YOUTUBE. When BBC||! went on line the British Government made it clear that those shows ordinarily on broadcast BBC ||! should be shown on BBC2 and/or one. I don't know how far that stipulation goes. Content should be platform neutral IMO.

It hasn't been decided yet!

No but RTÉ have stated as much in the last few months. While a decision has not been made and is unlikely to be made by the current minister, RTÉ will want it got rid of.

IMO RTÉ should ask for what they wanted in the first place.

Advertising on RTÉ News Now and replacing RTÉ ONE +1 with RTÉ GOLD/PLUS/THREE or what ever they want to call it.

fritzelly

News Now is a pointless channel - repeating the same stuff every 5 minutes
If you want a public service broadcast then it's very easy to do in times of apocalyptic events (plenty of spectrum available) - I'm surprised RTE haven't requested full time news readers for it. What advertiser would pay to advertise on the channel? Sky News is a loss making channel with all the advertising and they are a full on 24 hour news channel. What incentive would News Now have for advertisers.
Viewership on RTE+1 is minimal, absolutely no reason for RTE2 to have a +1
Someone mentioned above for Gold/plus/three - they can't manage their money enough to provide programming for the two channels alone - summer programming consists of in excess of 50% repeats (some repeated more than once). Rest of the year not much better.

political analyst

fritzelly wrote: »

News Now is a pointless channel - repeating the same stuff every 5 minutes
If you want a public service broadcast then it's very easy to do in times of apocalyptic events (plenty of spectrum available) - I'm surprised RTE haven't requested full time news readers for it. What advertiser would pay to advertise on the channel? Sky News is a loss making channel with all the advertising and they are a full on 24 hour news channel. What incentive would News Now have for advertisers.
Viewership on RTE+1 is minimal, absolutely no reason for RTE2 to have a +1
Someone mentioned above for Gold/plus/three - they can't manage their money enough to provide programming for the two channels alone - summer programming consists of in excess of 50% repeats (some repeated more than once). Rest of the year not much better.

Tell that to those terrestrial viewers who watched Dublin v Roscommon on that channel!

Tigerandahalf

The bigger problem for rte is being able to showcase sporting events (the big audience draws) across multiple channels. Putting live sport on an sd channel like News Now is a really poor offering.
I don't know what way it will be managed in the future - maybe they will put hd feeds online.

Really until the government steps in and forces carriers to put their main channel in HD on the saorview platform the future for saorview is bleak especially with Virgin and others going after more and more live sport. It seems a matter of time before rte loses the key gaa games.

With the younger audiences watching more and more online you can see why rte want to move there. But with so much competition there you do wonder how rte will keep a share of the market.

There is a big push with Virgin at the moment to push targeted ads with their new boxes. This has been happening on facebook and others for years and is how itv and others are going in forcing you to sign up for catchup tv with your age and gender included. Rte will go down this road too.

What is the split between rte's ad revenue and the licence fee revenue I wonder?

DavyD_83

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

There is an argument to be made that the News Now channel should be state funded (outside of other contributions). It should be there to provide necessary information in times of storms and other emergencies. There is no guarantee you would have an internet service in a major storm with fibre being run along poles.

It could also be used in times of elections and other important occasions and have it on display in public areas like train/bus stations, hospitals, etc. Whether that is enough to warrant funding of a sole station with no ads is another matter. Clearly the bosses in rte see no future with it.

I'd say there's an argument that the entire RTE offering could/should be reduced to News Now, and perhaps 1 other channel for current affairs, live sport, documentary and other items.
As a National Broadcaster, what I want and expect from them, and would accept contributing to is information services, and factual or opinion based output.
I see no reason why they should be ploughing money into Fair City, Hollywood Movies, and some genuinely good American TV that they bury in the night-time slots.

Actually interesting to read:
Public Service Broadcasting Charter

political analyst

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

The bigger problem for rte is being able to showcase sporting events (the big audience draws) across multiple channels. Putting live sport on an sd channel like News Now is a really poor offering.
I don't know what way it will be managed in the future - maybe they will put hd feeds online.

Really until the government steps in and forces carriers to put their main channel in HD on the saorview platform the future for saorview is bleak especially with Virgin and others going after more and more live sport. It seems a matter of time before rte loses the key gaa games.

With the younger audiences watching more and more online you can see why rte want to move there. But with so much competition there you do wonder how rte will keep a share of the market.

There is a big push with Virgin at the moment to push targeted ads with their new boxes. This has been happening on facebook and others for years and is how itv and others are going in forcing you to sign up for catchup tv with your age and gender included. Rte will go down this road too.

What is the split between rte's ad revenue and the licence fee revenue I wonder?

Saorview will not cease to exist.


RTÉ is legally obliged to provide a terrestrial public broadcasting service.



Furthermore, Virgin Media Ireland would lose ad revenue if it pulled TV3 from Saorview.

Elmo

DavyD_83 wrote: »

I'd say there's an argument that the entire RTE offering could/should be reduced to News Now, and perhaps 1 other channel for current affairs, live sport, documentary and other items.
As a National Broadcaster, what I want and expect from them, and would accept contributing to is information services, and factual or opinion based output.
I see no reason why they should be ploughing money into Fair City, Hollywood Movies, and some genuinely good American TV that they bury in the night-time slots.

Actually interesting to read:
Public Service Broadcasting Charter

There is but its not a great one. Firstly I agree with other on the forum that state that RTÉ is filled with repeats, and this isn't just during the summer months. RTÉ have, over the last 7 or so years, backed out of producing programming. I agree that they over spend on imports (in 2017 it was 25million, up 3million from 2016) meantime Children's Content was at just 3.9million in 2017 (a 3million decrease from 2016).

RTÉ have plently of content and could avoid repeats if they wanted to, RTÉ one averages 25% while RTÉ2 averages 45% of repeats in prime time, RTÉ may say its to allow viewers catch up but when the repeat property shows from 2016 in 2018 for the 6th time I some how doubt that its purely for catch up and more for filler.

But what could RTÉ have done with RTÉ NEWS NOW. Well they did one thing and that was to provide clashing coverage of the Olympics, World Cup and other sports over the last 2 years, it took them nearly 7 years to figure that out. So that's a plus. But then there is the rest of NEWS NOW, which is just a 24/7 repeat of SIX ONE.

I don't expect RTÉ to spend masses amounts of money on NEWS NOW, but IMO RTÉ could never be thrifty when it comes to NEWS NOW, its problem lies in the fact that RTÉ don't know what to do with a sheostring budget. If they did, NEWS NOW would provide the following schedule

6:00 AS RTÉ ONE
7:00 Repeat of RTÉ2 sports news programmes such as the Sunday Game, Against the Head etc
8:00 Repeat of RTÉ ONE current affairs programmes such as Prime Time, TWIP, Claire Byrne, Leaders Questions and Oireachtas Report.
9:00 As RTÉ ONE
9:30 As RTÉ ONE current affairs shows
10:30 A mix of reports from the day, without news presenters, ala EURONEWS
11:00 A sorely missed national news service from RTÉ2
12:00 to 07:00 as 10:30
07:00 Morning Ireland with proper edits during news reports, no need to see the studio webcam.
09:00 as Prime Time Schedule from 7pm last night
11:00 a round of up stories, ala EURONEWS
13:00 LUNCH TIME NEWS
13:30 NUACHT TG4
14:00 As 7pm to 9pm
16:00 News Round Up, simlar in style to EuroNews
17:30 Nuacht RTÉ le TG4

The could even mix news stories via their EBU partners during the EuroNews style news portions. Of course it would be nice if they could sell advertising revenue on the channel.

But sure easier to repeat a repeat of a repeat on RTÉ 2+1