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Go-Ahead Dublin Commuter Routes (Currently BE)

  • 11-08-2018 8:03am
    #1
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,286 Mod ✭✭✭✭ devnull
    Moderator


    Some more information starting to come out on this contract in the last few days, thought it would be good to have a sumamry of what the latest is rather than having it overflowing into the Dublin routes thread.

    Services:
    - Depot will be based close to Naas (any idea where?)
    - Services will be starting in 2019.
    - Routes will be 120, 120C, 123, 124, 126, 130
    - Currently recruiting operations staff for the depot.

    Vehicles:
    - 10 vehicles will transfer from Bus Eireann
    - 13 new double-deck-coaches
    - 12 new single-deck buses with Wifi, USB, buggy and wheelchair spaces.


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,966 ✭✭✭ Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime
    Registered User


    New single deck Buses, so they are doing away with coaches on the 126 most likely then

    Edenderry is too far for a city bus so I have to assume it's Kildare (BÉ have been known to put city buses on the 126 sometimes against drivers will ! )

    This fact in itself will mean longer commute times in and out of Dublin with a lower speed limit of 65kmh as opposed to the 100kmh they currently do (yes, legally) on the dual carriageway and motorways, with no real increase in capacity but with easier access and space for wheel chair (great for wheel chair users)

    But could also mean standing on the way to and from work for passengers.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 61,810 Mod ✭✭✭✭ L1011
    Moderator


    City bus style vehicles can be fitted with belts/disallow standing to lift their speed limit, I'd hope that's the plan


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,933 ✭✭✭ GM228
    Registered User


    Previously mentioned the buses here.

    "13 new tri-axle double deck buses from VDL, 12 new single-deck regional buses from Wrights and 10 LD type buses (2016) from Bus Éireann".


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,933 ✭✭✭ GM228
    Registered User


    L1011 wrote: »
    City bus style vehicles can be fitted with belts/disallow standing to lift their speed limit, I'd hope that's the plan

    You can't simply fit seat belts and "disallow" standing to increase the speed, they must actually be designed that way (which as you say is hopefully the plan) in the first place, in other words you can't retrospectively increase their speed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,966 ✭✭✭ Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime
    Registered User


    GM228 wrote: »
    You can't simply fit seat belts and "disallow" standing to increase the speed, they must actually be designed that way (which as you say is hopefully the plan) in the first place, in other words you can't retrospectively increase their speed.

    Giving that they are allowing a space for a buggy , this is most definitely not going to happen

    I'd put good money on that fact

    Also means (not that it's a big deal at all) but it'll mean windows that open and close and no air conditioning as would be a coach


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭ Stephen15


    Is the plan just to use the new depot out near Naas or do they plan to use Ballymount aswell?


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,999 ✭✭✭✭ AlekSmart
    Registered User


    GM228 wrote: »
    You can't simply fit seat belts and "disallow" standing to increase the speed, they must actually be designed that way (which as you say is hopefully the plan) in the first place, in other words you can't retrospectively increase their speed.

    As with a great many ex BAC RV class vehicles,it is indeed permissable to modify their licencing classification by deleting the "Provision for Standing Passengers" and satisfying the required declarations .

    Whilst the Rules of the Road only mentions the term "Designed for the carriage of Standing Passengers" the actual wording in Legislative terms is somewhat broader.

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2008/si/546/made/en/print

    Speed limits — buses, etc

    3. (1) The ordinary speed limit prescribed for a single or double deck mechanically propelled vehicle constructed or adapted for use primarily for the carriage of passengers which has seating capacity for more than 8 persons and which is—

    (a) neither designed nor adapted for the carriage of standing passengers, when driven on—

    (i) a motorway or a dual carriageway, is 100 kilometres per hour, or

    (ii) any other public road, is 80 kilometres per hour, or

    (b) designed or adapted for the carriage of standing passengers when driven on any public road is 65 kilometres per hour.

    So far,the issue of seatbelt fitment or use on Large Public Service Vehicles NOT used for the organized transport of Children (3 or more in number) remains irelevant to the Speed Limit of that LPSV.


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,966 ✭✭✭ Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime
    Registered User


    AlekSmart wrote: »
    As with a great many ex BAC RV class vehicles,it is indeed permissable to modify their licencing classification by deleting the "Provision for Standing Passengers" and satisfying the required declarations .

    Whilst the Rules of the Road only mentions the term "Designed for the carriage of Standing Passengers" the actual wording in Legislative terms is somewhat broader.

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2008/si/546/made/en/print




    So far,the issue of seatbelt fitment or use on Large Public Service Vehicles NOT used for the organized transport of Children (3 or more in number) remains irelevant to the Speed Limit of that LPSV.

    Yes but to do so every seat must have a seat belt fitted which these will not.

    Also to allow for easy access to wheelchair and buggy they must allow for standing which means at most 65kmh

    If they wanted 100kmh they would not be allowed to have unfolded / occupied buggies and also wheelchair's would have to be strapped / belted into place in said wheelchair bay to safely allow for higher speeds.

    These Wright vehicles are not coming with seatbelts or restraints for wheelchairs and there is no such thing as a restraining system for a buggy to be occupied / unfolded in a buggy bay so these vehicles are going to be Dublin bus style single deckers with a top speed of 65kmh on roads with limits of 80 and 100kmh. (National roads, dual carriageways and motorways)

    So sorry folks of Kildare , newbridge, naas, Johnstown , kill and castle warden but your journeys are about to get, slower, noiser and less comfortable in a city type bus than in the coaches they currently use.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭ Stephen15


    What's the top speed of the JJK 139 buses can they do over 60 km/ph?


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,484 ✭✭✭✭ Jamie2k9
    Registered User


    Where do BE store buses in Kildare area now?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 27,607 ✭✭✭✭ end of the road
    Registered User


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    What's the top speed of the JJK 139 buses can they do over 60 km/ph?

    i think they are operated by coaches so they likely do operate over 60.

    julian the journalist asange is innocent, free julian the journalist.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭ Stephen15


    i think they are operated by coaches so they likely do operate over 60.

    No they are operated by single deckers like this which I believe are fitted with seatbelts and don't have standing passengers

    https://midlanddeltic.smugmug.com/Trip-Sets-Ireland-Bus/2018/Portlaoise-Newbridge-Naas-Bus-26-06-2018/i-rvpd8WZ


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 61,810 Mod ✭✭✭✭ L1011
    Moderator


    Egyptian built single deckers from a brand I'd never heard of before.

    Been on middle distance services in the UK run with Wright single deckers with belts a few times. Leeds and Cardiff airport services come to mind


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,933 ✭✭✭ GM228
    Registered User


    GM228 wrote: »
    Previously mentioned the buses here.

    "13 new tri-axle double deck buses from VDL, 12 new single-deck regional buses from Wrights and 10 LD type buses (2016) from Bus Éireann".

    Update, have been advised that the 12 signle deckers (and future non city type BE single deckers) will in fact be supplied by Volvo UK now as opposed to Wrights due to a recent contract change.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭ Vic_08
    Registered User


    L1011 wrote: »
    Egyptian built single deckers from a brand I'd never heard of before.

    Been on middle distance services in the UK run with Wright single deckers with belts a few times. Leeds and Cardiff airport services come to mind

    UK has no differential speed limit, it is perfectly legal to run a bog standard bus with no seatbelts and standing passengers at up to 70 mph.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭ Stephen15


    L1011 wrote: »
    Egyptian built single deckers from a brand I'd never heard of before.

    Been on middle distance services in the UK run with Wright single deckers with belts a few times. Leeds and Cardiff airport services come to mind

    They make double deckers aswell. I believe Go-Ahead London have quite a lot of them.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 61,810 Mod ✭✭✭✭ L1011
    Moderator


    Vic_08 wrote: »
    UK has no differential speed limit, it is perfectly legal to run a bog standard bus with no seatbelts and standing passengers at up to 70 mph.

    That's insane. UK speed limits (the 70mph motorway one particularly) were just pulled out of thin air rather than any safety work being done on them though so its not surprising.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,691 ✭✭✭ dublinman1990
    Registered User




  • Registered Users Posts: 13,999 ✭✭✭✭ AlekSmart
    Registered User


    Vic_08 wrote: »
    UK has no differential speed limit, it is perfectly legal to run a bog standard bus with no seatbelts and standing passengers at up to 70 mph.

    You will however,when you have managed to stop the contrivance,be charged with using the vehicle without a working Speed-Limiter,set to either 65 MPH OR 100Km/H in modern vehicles.


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭ Stephen15



    I thought it looked awful at first but it looks quite well now. However I don't think these buses should be in the same livery as the ex DB city routes as if this livery is coming to be rolled out across the country on all PSO buses it's going to create some level of confusion. They should in my opinion have a separate livery for city/town services and then another livery for regional longer distance services.


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  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,286 Mod ✭✭✭✭ devnull
    Moderator


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    I thought it looked awful at first but it looks quite well now. However I don't think these buses should be in the same livery as the ex DB city routes as if this livery is coming to be rolled out across the country on all PSO buses it's going to create some level of confusion. They should in my opinion have a separate livery for city/town services and then another livery for regional longer distance services.

    It's a slightly tweaked version of the Go-Ahead Dublin livery, the stripes have been moved slightly closer to the back of the vehicle and the angle of them is a little narrower, with them closer together and the TFI logo has been turned to green from white and the Green stripe has changed colour and a Wifi badge added.

    Minor tweaks but they improve it for me and they really suit that vehicle much more than the BE livery.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭ Stephen15


    devnull wrote: »
    It's a slightly tweaked version of the Go-Ahead Dublin livery, the stripes have been moved slightly closer to the back of the vehicle and the angle of them is a little narrower and the TFI logo has been turned to green from white and the Green stripe has changed colour and a Wifi badge added.

    Minor tweaks but they improve it for me and they really suit that vehicle much more than the BE livery.

    Yeah I don't deny that it does look a bit better than on a city bus. I personally think that the new livery looks better on a Streetlite or a GT than it does on an SG and then better again on the LF also the yellow is less noticeable than on an SG for sure.

    However the livery is still not different enough from the one used on city buses and I personally would prefer if they used a different colour scheme for regional buses than on city buses to avoid confusion especially if this livery is going to be rolled out to all PSO buses across the country. For example someone may confuse the DB 123 for the regional 123 if in the city centre.

    They could have invested the colours for a regional livery for example changed the white stripe to a blue stripe and have the livery all white or even paint the front of the bus white instead of yellow keeping yellow for city buses. White is also in the NDAs guidelines of a colour that's highly visible to people with visual impairment.


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,297 ✭✭✭✭ _Kaiser_
    Registered User


    Sorry, but this livery is still awful- and it makes even less sense to have the Dublin Bus yellow on intercity coaches


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,286 Mod ✭✭✭✭ devnull
    Moderator


    _Kaiser_ wrote: »
    Sorry, but this livery is still awful- and it makes even less sense to have the Dublin Bus yellow on intercity coaches

    It's to aid visibility to people who are visually impaired at least that was what people were saying for it's inclusion on the livery used by Go-Ahead in Dublin, so surely we should not be discriminating against visually impaired people who are outside Dublin, since surely this is a real issue?

    I did note a few people who have been particularly anti the new livery for these commuter services on social media (not on Boards) spent ages moaning about the lack of yellow on the Go-Ahead buses saying it was the only acceptable colour for visibility reasons but now are changing their tune somewhat.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭ Stephen15


    devnull wrote: »
    I did note a few people who have been particularly anti the new livery for these commuter services on social media (not on Boards) spent ages moaning about the lack of yellow on the Go-Ahead buses saying it was the only acceptable colour for visibility reasons but now are changing their tune somewhat.

    I think it would be a good idea on city buses in the likes of Cork, Galway, Limerick etc. There were many people complaining that they didn't go for any the options on the original livery survey (which were all awful). White is supposed to also be a colour that is easy to see and meet NDA guidelines.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,254 ✭✭✭ john boye
    Registered User


    They shouldn't bother with the yellow on the coach as there is so little room for yellow (with the huge windscreens) that any supposed visibility benefits would be minimal at best.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,966 ✭✭✭ Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime
    Registered User


    If the color of these sh/te boxes is all you have to worry about then I've bad news for you...


    Been speaking to the management of GAI for different reasons and they spoke of these VDL buses and they are very disappointed with them already. They have only being on the road for a small bit, giving small trouble already and are very concerned for their reliability with them


    Edit: I want to add this post isint just me having another bash at these **** box's but more a general discussion that was taking place and they just happened to mention them in passing And also in relation to my knowledge of them, thus them passing on them remarks.


  • Registered Users Posts: 56 ✭✭ Radio Gold
    Registered User


    I was up in Sligo over the weekend and I noticed a few smaller Streetlites with the Go Ahead / TFI livery but had the operated by Bus Eireann on the side. I thought the were for only the recent Waterford contract Bus Eireann won ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭ Stephen15


    Radio Gold wrote: »
    I was up in Sligo over the weekend and I noticed a few smaller Streetlites with the Go Ahead / TFI livery but had the operated by Bus Eireann on the side. I thought the were for only the recent Waterford contract Bus Eireann won ?

    The NTA ordered 88 of them 40 for GAI the remaining 48 for BE for town and city services in a number of places. I think they are in Sligo so drivers can be type trained on them as Sligo are due some. I believe Dundalk and Navan are getting some aswell. I'd say Limerick and Galway will also get some as with Athlone.


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  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,286 Mod ✭✭✭✭ devnull
    Moderator


    Been speaking to the management of GAI for different reasons and they spoke of these VDL buses and they are very disappointed with them already. They have only being on the road for a small bit, giving small trouble already and are very concerned for their reliability with them.

    They're nothing special that is for sure and they were spec'd to tick all the boxes to win a tender rather than actually to be good vehicles. VDL have been very good at doing that in recent years truth be told, but there isn't a whole load of competition in the double deck market that could compete with them on cost.

    Vanhool are great but not cheap, Setra produce an outstanding double decker but is not cheap nor produced for the UK or Ireland, Neoplan don't really go in for that market these days and the only other alternative is Plaxton who have never really took part in such tenders.

    Only other choice is the Caetano Boa Vista which Translink have and National Express in the UK, but National Express haven't had a great time with theirs at all and they spent long periods out of service but are back in now on limited routes.


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