Go-Ahead Dublin Commuter Routes (Currently BE)

devnull

Some more information starting to come out on this contract in the last few days, thought it would be good to have a sumamry of what the latest is rather than having it overflowing into the Dublin routes thread.

Services:
- Depot will be based close to Naas (any idea where?)
- Services will be starting in 2019.
- Routes will be 120, 120C, 123, 124, 126, 130
- Currently recruiting operations staff for the depot.

Vehicles:
- 10 vehicles will transfer from Bus Eireann
- 13 new double-deck-coaches
- 12 new single-deck buses with Wifi, USB, buggy and wheelchair spaces.

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

New single deck Buses, so they are doing away with coaches on the 126 most likely then

Edenderry is too far for a city bus so I have to assume it's Kildare (BÉ have been known to put city buses on the 126 sometimes against drivers will ! )

This fact in itself will mean longer commute times in and out of Dublin with a lower speed limit of 65kmh as opposed to the 100kmh they currently do (yes, legally) on the dual carriageway and motorways, with no real increase in capacity but with easier access and space for wheel chair (great for wheel chair users)

But could also mean standing on the way to and from work for passengers.

L1011

City bus style vehicles can be fitted with belts/disallow standing to lift their speed limit, I'd hope that's the plan

GM228

Previously mentioned the buses here.

"13 new tri-axle double deck buses from VDL, 12 new single-deck regional buses from Wrights and 10 LD type buses (2016) from Bus Éireann".

GM228

L1011 wrote: »

City bus style vehicles can be fitted with belts/disallow standing to lift their speed limit, I'd hope that's the plan

You can't simply fit seat belts and "disallow" standing to increase the speed, they must actually be designed that way (which as you say is hopefully the plan) in the first place, in other words you can't retrospectively increase their speed.

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

GM228 wrote: »

You can't simply fit seat belts and "disallow" standing to increase the speed, they must actually be designed that way (which as you say is hopefully the plan) in the first place, in other words you can't retrospectively increase their speed.

Giving that they are allowing a space for a buggy , this is most definitely not going to happen

I'd put good money on that fact

Also means (not that it's a big deal at all) but it'll mean windows that open and close and no air conditioning as would be a coach

Stephen15

Is the plan just to use the new depot out near Naas or do they plan to use Ballymount aswell?

AlekSmart

GM228 wrote: »

You can't simply fit seat belts and "disallow" standing to increase the speed, they must actually be designed that way (which as you say is hopefully the plan) in the first place, in other words you can't retrospectively increase their speed.

As with a great many ex BAC RV class vehicles,it is indeed permissable to modify their licencing classification by deleting the "Provision for Standing Passengers" and satisfying the required declarations .

Whilst the Rules of the Road only mentions the term "Designed for the carriage of Standing Passengers" the actual wording in Legislative terms is somewhat broader.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2008/si/546/made/en/print

Speed limits — buses, etc

3. (1) The ordinary speed limit prescribed for a single or double deck mechanically propelled vehicle constructed or adapted for use primarily for the carriage of passengers which has seating capacity for more than 8 persons and which is—

(a) neither designed nor adapted for the carriage of standing passengers, when driven on—

(i) a motorway or a dual carriageway, is 100 kilometres per hour, or

(ii) any other public road, is 80 kilometres per hour, or

(b) designed or adapted for the carriage of standing passengers when driven on any public road is 65 kilometres per hour.

So far,the issue of seatbelt fitment or use on Large Public Service Vehicles NOT used for the organized transport of Children (3 or more in number) remains irelevant to the Speed Limit of that LPSV.

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

AlekSmart wrote: »

As with a great many ex BAC RV class vehicles,it is indeed permissable to modify their licencing classification by deleting the "Provision for Standing Passengers" and satisfying the required declarations .

Whilst the Rules of the Road only mentions the term "Designed for the carriage of Standing Passengers" the actual wording in Legislative terms is somewhat broader.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2008/si/546/made/en/print




So far,the issue of seatbelt fitment or use on Large Public Service Vehicles NOT used for the organized transport of Children (3 or more in number) remains irelevant to the Speed Limit of that LPSV.

Yes but to do so every seat must have a seat belt fitted which these will not.

Also to allow for easy access to wheelchair and buggy they must allow for standing which means at most 65kmh

If they wanted 100kmh they would not be allowed to have unfolded / occupied buggies and also wheelchair's would have to be strapped / belted into place in said wheelchair bay to safely allow for higher speeds.

These Wright vehicles are not coming with seatbelts or restraints for wheelchairs and there is no such thing as a restraining system for a buggy to be occupied / unfolded in a buggy bay so these vehicles are going to be Dublin bus style single deckers with a top speed of 65kmh on roads with limits of 80 and 100kmh. (National roads, dual carriageways and motorways)

So sorry folks of Kildare , newbridge, naas, Johnstown , kill and castle warden but your journeys are about to get, slower, noiser and less comfortable in a city type bus than in the coaches they currently use.

Stephen15

What's the top speed of the JJK 139 buses can they do over 60 km/ph?

Jamie2k9

Where do BE store buses in Kildare area now?

end of the road

Stephen15 wrote: »

What's the top speed of the JJK 139 buses can they do over 60 km/ph?

i think they are operated by coaches so they likely do operate over 60.

Stephen15

end of the road wrote: »

i think they are operated by coaches so they likely do operate over 60.

No they are operated by single deckers like this which I believe are fitted with seatbelts and don't have standing passengers

https://midlanddeltic.smugmug.com/Trip-Sets-Ireland-Bus/2018/Portlaoise-Newbridge-Naas-Bus-26-06-2018/i-rvpd8WZ

L1011

Egyptian built single deckers from a brand I'd never heard of before.

Been on middle distance services in the UK run with Wright single deckers with belts a few times. Leeds and Cardiff airport services come to mind

GM228

GM228 wrote: »

Previously mentioned the buses here.

"13 new tri-axle double deck buses from VDL, 12 new single-deck regional buses from Wrights and 10 LD type buses (2016) from Bus Éireann".

Update, have been advised that the 12 signle deckers (and future non city type BE single deckers) will in fact be supplied by Volvo UK now as opposed to Wrights due to a recent contract change.

Vic_08

L1011 wrote: »

Egyptian built single deckers from a brand I'd never heard of before.

Been on middle distance services in the UK run with Wright single deckers with belts a few times. Leeds and Cardiff airport services come to mind

UK has no differential speed limit, it is perfectly legal to run a bog standard bus with no seatbelts and standing passengers at up to 70 mph.

Stephen15

L1011 wrote: »

Egyptian built single deckers from a brand I'd never heard of before.

Been on middle distance services in the UK run with Wright single deckers with belts a few times. Leeds and Cardiff airport services come to mind

They make double deckers aswell. I believe Go-Ahead London have quite a lot of them.

L1011

Vic_08 wrote: »

UK has no differential speed limit, it is perfectly legal to run a bog standard bus with no seatbelts and standing passengers at up to 70 mph.

That's insane. UK speed limits (the 70mph motorway one particularly) were just pulled out of thin air rather than any safety work being done on them though so its not surprising.

dublinman1990

Here is one of it's buses in the new livery.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/darren_hall/46850792455/in/faves-91538517@N02/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/60501971@N08/40800197063/in/faves-91538517@N02/

AlekSmart

Vic_08 wrote: »

UK has no differential speed limit, it is perfectly legal to run a bog standard bus with no seatbelts and standing passengers at up to 70 mph.

You will however,when you have managed to stop the contrivance,be charged with using the vehicle without a working Speed-Limiter,set to either 65 MPH OR 100Km/H in modern vehicles.

Stephen15

dublinman1990 wrote: »

Here is one of it's buses in the new livery.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/darren_hall/46850792455/in/faves-91538517@N02/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/60501971@N08/40800197063/in/faves-91538517@N02/

I thought it looked awful at first but it looks quite well now. However I don't think these buses should be in the same livery as the ex DB city routes as if this livery is coming to be rolled out across the country on all PSO buses it's going to create some level of confusion. They should in my opinion have a separate livery for city/town services and then another livery for regional longer distance services.

devnull

Stephen15 wrote: »

I thought it looked awful at first but it looks quite well now. However I don't think these buses should be in the same livery as the ex DB city routes as if this livery is coming to be rolled out across the country on all PSO buses it's going to create some level of confusion. They should in my opinion have a separate livery for city/town services and then another livery for regional longer distance services.

It's a slightly tweaked version of the Go-Ahead Dublin livery, the stripes have been moved slightly closer to the back of the vehicle and the angle of them is a little narrower, with them closer together and the TFI logo has been turned to green from white and the Green stripe has changed colour and a Wifi badge added.

Minor tweaks but they improve it for me and they really suit that vehicle much more than the BE livery.

Stephen15

devnull wrote: »

It's a slightly tweaked version of the Go-Ahead Dublin livery, the stripes have been moved slightly closer to the back of the vehicle and the angle of them is a little narrower and the TFI logo has been turned to green from white and the Green stripe has changed colour and a Wifi badge added.

Minor tweaks but they improve it for me and they really suit that vehicle much more than the BE livery.

Yeah I don't deny that it does look a bit better than on a city bus. I personally think that the new livery looks better on a Streetlite or a GT than it does on an SG and then better again on the LF also the yellow is less noticeable than on an SG for sure.

However the livery is still not different enough from the one used on city buses and I personally would prefer if they used a different colour scheme for regional buses than on city buses to avoid confusion especially if this livery is going to be rolled out to all PSO buses across the country. For example someone may confuse the DB 123 for the regional 123 if in the city centre.

They could have invested the colours for a regional livery for example changed the white stripe to a blue stripe and have the livery all white or even paint the front of the bus white instead of yellow keeping yellow for city buses. White is also in the NDAs guidelines of a colour that's highly visible to people with visual impairment.

_Kaiser_

Sorry, but this livery is still awful- and it makes even less sense to have the Dublin Bus yellow on intercity coaches

devnull

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Sorry, but this livery is still awful- and it makes even less sense to have the Dublin Bus yellow on intercity coaches

It's to aid visibility to people who are visually impaired at least that was what people were saying for it's inclusion on the livery used by Go-Ahead in Dublin, so surely we should not be discriminating against visually impaired people who are outside Dublin, since surely this is a real issue?

I did note a few people who have been particularly anti the new livery for these commuter services on social media (not on Boards) spent ages moaning about the lack of yellow on the Go-Ahead buses saying it was the only acceptable colour for visibility reasons but now are changing their tune somewhat.

Stephen15

devnull wrote: »

I did note a few people who have been particularly anti the new livery for these commuter services on social media (not on Boards) spent ages moaning about the lack of yellow on the Go-Ahead buses saying it was the only acceptable colour for visibility reasons but now are changing their tune somewhat.

I think it would be a good idea on city buses in the likes of Cork, Galway, Limerick etc. There were many people complaining that they didn't go for any the options on the original livery survey (which were all awful). White is supposed to also be a colour that is easy to see and meet NDA guidelines.

john boye

They shouldn't bother with the yellow on the coach as there is so little room for yellow (with the huge windscreens) that any supposed visibility benefits would be minimal at best.

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

If the color of these sh/te boxes is all you have to worry about then I've bad news for you...


Been speaking to the management of GAI for different reasons and they spoke of these VDL buses and they are very disappointed with them already. They have only being on the road for a small bit, giving small trouble already and are very concerned for their reliability with them


Edit: I want to add this post isint just me having another bash at these **** box's but more a general discussion that was taking place and they just happened to mention them in passing And also in relation to my knowledge of them, thus them passing on them remarks.

Radio Gold

I was up in Sligo over the weekend and I noticed a few smaller Streetlites with the Go Ahead / TFI livery but had the operated by Bus Eireann on the side. I thought the were for only the recent Waterford contract Bus Eireann won ?

Stephen15

Radio Gold wrote: »

I was up in Sligo over the weekend and I noticed a few smaller Streetlites with the Go Ahead / TFI livery but had the operated by Bus Eireann on the side. I thought the were for only the recent Waterford contract Bus Eireann won ?

The NTA ordered 88 of them 40 for GAI the remaining 48 for BE for town and city services in a number of places. I think they are in Sligo so drivers can be type trained on them as Sligo are due some. I believe Dundalk and Navan are getting some aswell. I'd say Limerick and Galway will also get some as with Athlone.

devnull

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

Been speaking to the management of GAI for different reasons and they spoke of these VDL buses and they are very disappointed with them already. They have only being on the road for a small bit, giving small trouble already and are very concerned for their reliability with them.

They're nothing special that is for sure and they were spec'd to tick all the boxes to win a tender rather than actually to be good vehicles. VDL have been very good at doing that in recent years truth be told, but there isn't a whole load of competition in the double deck market that could compete with them on cost.

Vanhool are great but not cheap, Setra produce an outstanding double decker but is not cheap nor produced for the UK or Ireland, Neoplan don't really go in for that market these days and the only other alternative is Plaxton who have never really took part in such tenders.

Only other choice is the Caetano Boa Vista which Translink have and National Express in the UK, but National Express haven't had a great time with theirs at all and they spent long periods out of service but are back in now on limited routes.

Stephen15

I'd imagine it would be a bit of a waste of money going for something like VanHools for commuter work aswell. VanHools are excellent coaches alright but don't come cheap as devnull alluded to. I wouldn't say theres too many operators ou there using them for short distance commuter work but rather tours and long distance intercity stuff.

whyulittle

Stephen15 wrote: »

The NTA ordered 88 of them 40 for GAI the remaining 48 for BE for town and city services in a number of places. I think they are in Sligo so drivers can be type trained on them as Sligo are due some. I believe Dundalk and Navan are getting some aswell. I'd say Limerick and Galway will also get some as with Athlone.

Saw one in Athlone the other day.

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

TransLink seem to be having a good run with their scania double decks, the only time we've ever seen them in broadstone is minor, such as a mirror bring hit or other damage caused while on the road.

They could be a runner, the drivers of them do like them and they seem smooth, comfortable and reliable

If there's no other double deck option then maybe they could go down the city bus double deck route, fit seatbelts and allow 80kmh which is all you are legally allowed to going to edenderry or tullamore. They are all national roads only. The VWDs used to be able to do 80kmh before they brought them back down and I brought one to tullamore on the 120 route and it did it faster than the LD I drove the previous day on the same route at the same time.

The reason it was faster was because it had a much better gearbox, easier to get around because it was shorter, much more reliable and still had the capacity !

After that if that doesn't work then go just back to normal coaches because I don't think I've ever filled an LD on 120 or 126

devnull

It's interesting that Translink haven't had any issues with their Caetano deckers because the National Express contractors who were running them in the UK complained of issues in high winds, suspension issues which are believed to have been the reason for the temporary withdrawal from service of all vehicles and also a lack of luggage capacity,

I've also read stuff online which I cannot verify saying luggage compartment can only be opened from the off-side and not from the near-side which seems a pretty stupid arrangement if true.

Trouble is there's not a huge demand for commuter double deck coaches as most demand for deckers normally falls into double deck city buses, premium spec double decker city buses used for commuter services (Witch Way, RedExpress to name a couple) and Intercity coaches.

BE using double decker coaches for commuter services is quite an unusual arrangement, normally such services around Europe are either operated by single decker coaches or buses.

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

devnull wrote: »

It's interesting that Translink haven't had any issues with their Caetano deckers because the National Express contractors who were running them in the UK complained of issues in high winds, suspension issues which are believed to have been the reason for the temporary withdrawal from service of all vehicles and also a lack of luggage capacity,

I've also read stuff online which I cannot verify saying luggage compartment can only be opened from the off-side and not from the near-side which seems a pretty stupid arrangement if true.

Trouble is there's not a huge demand for commuter double deck coaches as most demand for deckers normally falls into double deck city buses, premium spec double decker city buses used for commuter services (Witch Way, RedExpress to name a couple) and Intercity coaches.

BE using double decker coaches for commuter services is quite an unusual arrangement, normally such services around Europe are either operated by single decker coaches or buses.

I think TransLink have a good rep re: maintenance etc.

In regards to the luggage door, no , any one that I've seen or driven are normal set up of button in can open doors on passenger side (left)

Your last two points I agree with. I would have no issue seen these Kildare routes go down the way of single deck coach or double deck bus. Not it's current format

devnull

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

I think TransLink have a good rep re: maintenance etc.

The suspension was apparently was an issue from the moment the first models rolled out of the factory for National Express contractors. The Translink ones were probably built after that and had the issue fixed. The wind issue was related to driving over the Severn Bridge mostly, which obviously would not be a problem in Ireland!

In regards to the luggage door, no , any one that I've seen or driven are normal set up of button in can open doors on passenger side (left)

That's what I would have thought, hence my skepticism about reading that elsewhere. I heard the other comments from a good source but this one was just an unsubstantiated comment from a forum. Luggage capacity being an issue is always a problem on double deck coaches though.

Your last two points I agree with. I would have no issue seen these Kildare routes go down the way of single deck coach or double deck bus. Not it's current format

The WitchWay and Red Express are two great commuter routes in Lancashire, probably the most luxurious deckers I've been on, big high backed seats, USB ports, tables, 2+1 seating, luggage rack, really nice lighting. First have something similar with their Vantage Brand and Arriva with Saphire. Non standing versions of things like those with belts would be excellent.

We just seem to have this quite odd desire to have double decker coaches for commuter services here, despite the fact it's quite a niche market which is reflected in the lack of real competition for tenders for such as aside from VDL you really only have really other manufacturers who have double deck coaches more for intercity or touring work.

Stephen15

I saw a Bus Eireann VWD yesterday parked up on Talbot Street getting ready to work a 101 to Drogheda it was a city bus with centre doors practically the exact same as a DB SG I know these are probably intended for service in the regional cities but I wouldn't be mad on the idea of one for a long journey where your paying significantly more than you would with DB.

I don't mind the idea of city bus being used on a regional route but I'd expect at least high back seats with head rests preferably leather. I wonder will GAI will ever end up putting an SG on one of their commuter routes or would the contract allow this.

rabbidpeach

Stephen15 wrote: »

I saw a Bus Eireann VWD yesterday parked up on Talbot Street getting ready to work a 101 to Drogheda it was a city bus with centre doors practically the exact same as a DB SG I know these are probably intended for service in the regional cities but I wouldn't be mad on the idea of one for a long journey where your paying significantly more than you would with DB.

That would have been VWD 423, 424 or 425. Intended for Limerick but ended up in Drogheda instead. They needed the extra capacity but it's definitely not the most comfortable for such a long run; I think the LDs would have been a better choice.

Stephen15

rabbidpeach wrote: »

That would have been VWD 423, 424 or 425. Intended for Limerick but ended up in Drogheda instead. They needed the extra capacity but it's definitely not the most comfortable for such a long run; I think the LDs would have been a better choice.

Why not move some of the single door VWDs with headrests to Drogheda from Cork or Limerick and move the dual door city buses down to Limerick or Cork. Are there any tight turns on this route that might prevent LDs from operating it? I actually saw a VWD on the 133 today I wonder will this be something that will become a common occurrence or is it just a rare allocation.

rabbidpeach

Stephen15 wrote: »

Why not move some of the single door VWDs with headrests to Drogheda from Cork or Limerick and move the dual door city buses down to Limerick or Cork. Are there any tight turns on this route that might prevent LDs from operating it?

Now you say it, there is. Heading towards Drogheda, south of Julianstown, there’s a very sharp turn where the R132 merges on to the M1 slip road for junction 7.

They do have some early VWDs but mainly use them on the town services in Drogheda and Balbriggan. You always got one on the 7am 101 to Dublin but looks to be mostly the new VWDs now.

XPS_Zero

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

TransLink seem to be having a good run with their scania double decks, the only time we've ever seen them in broadstone is minor, such as a mirror bring hit or other damage caused while on the road.

They could be a runner, the drivers of them do like them and they seem smooth, comfortable and reliable

If there's no other double deck option then maybe they could go down the city bus double deck route, fit seatbelts and allow 80kmh which is all you are legally allowed to going to edenderry or tullamore. They are all national roads only. The VWDs used to be able to do 80kmh before they brought them back down and I brought one to tullamore on the 120 route and it did it faster than the LD I drove the previous day on the same route at the same time.

The reason it was faster was because it had a much better gearbox, easier to get around because it was shorter, much more reliable and still had the capacity !

After that if that doesn't work then go just back to normal coaches because I don't think I've ever filled an LD on 120 or 126

I've never driven one obviously, but the Translink double deckers are, for a passenger, a pleasure to ride in. They only use them on the Dublin-Derry route (about half the time) and the Belfast-Derry route, which is a shame because, since BE pulled their double deckers from the Ulster routes what has replaced them is dire. The Goldline single deckers are ok but not as nice as the BE double deckers were. I'd kill to get the Translink double deckers on the X1/2a route...I'd kill one of you, right now...

Stephen15

rabbidpeach wrote: »

Now you say it, there is. Heading towards Drogheda, south of Julianstown, there’s a very sharp turn where the R132 merges on to the M1 slip road for junction 7.

They do have some early VWDs but mainly use them on the town services in Drogheda and Balbriggan. You always got one on the 7am 101 to Dublin but looks to be mostly the new VWDs now.

Would they not be better off allocating the 182 VWDs to the Drogheda and Balbriggan town services and the older ones on the 101.

devnull

devnull wrote: »

It's a slightly tweaked version of the Go-Ahead Dublin livery, the stripes have been moved slightly closer to the back of the vehicle and the angle of them is a little narrower, with them closer together and the TFI logo has been turned to green from white and the Green stripe has changed colour and a Wifi badge added.

Minor tweaks but they improve it for me and they really suit that vehicle much more than the BE livery.

Saw one of those Futura's today that are with Go-Ahead it looks like they've gone back to the version used on the former Dublin Bus routes unfortunately, with the stripes further apart, White TFI logo and old lighter green as used on the Dublin vehicles.

Not sure why they did that, the tweaked version was better.

Stephen15

I just don't see why the NTA see the need to have regional and city buses in the same livery they are different types of services it's going to create confusion in the future if and when DB and BE adopt the livery people may confuse say the DB 123 for the regional 123 for example.

Kfagan10

I don't think it will, the 123 BE is only ever a single decker coach.

Stephen15

Kfagan10 wrote: »

I don't think it will, the 123 BE is only ever a single decker coach.

But I'd say there will be times where GAI would throw up something different like a double decker coach or even a city bus (not sure if the NTA would allow that) considering that GAIs allocation in Dublin have been fairly random with double deckers appearing on single deck routes and vice versa.

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

The fleet allocation for kildare is meant to only be LFs and the new Volvo coaches which are on the way

This is actually causing serious concern for routes like the 123 because nobody believes an LF will be able to make the small hump back bridges and tight turns in order to do the 123.
(Yes someone posted here before an LD200 on it once ! But an LD200 is only 12.7-12.9 long and tri-axle which is actually an awful lot better than an LF (which is 14.1 meter long) for turning in tight spaces etc.)

The new Volvo coaches are confirmed B8RLE @ 13.5m long and only twin axle (100kmh with seat belts and no standees) , these vehicles given their length , will actually be worse for turning and hump back bridges we believe.
( Wheelbase 7m, rear overhang 3.75m and 2.75m front overhang). This only allows for an accent of about 6 or 7° .

So there is genuine concern over this, and to be honest, given the route, roads, low speeds. I think a single deck city bus (short wheel base) from their ballymount fleet would actually be better and I think possibly will end up on this route

GM228

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

This is actually causing serious concern for routes like the 123 because nobody believes an LF will be able to make the small hump back bridges and tight turns in order to do the 123.
(Yes someone posted here before an LD200 on it once ! But an LD200 is only 12.7-12.9 long and tri-axle which is actually an awful lot better than an LF (which is 14.1 meter long) for turning in tight spaces etc.)

That was myself.

The LD2XXs worked it more than once and were in the past semi-regular on the run.

Whilst I have never seen a LF on it I have seen the LD3XXs on it on a few occasions and even an SE. The LD3XXs are the same lenght as the LFs and the SEs are only 0.2m shorter.

VWD8 found itself on the 123 just last week, first time I've seen a VWD on that run meaning I have seen everything in the current fleet bar the LE, LF and DD work the route.

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

GM228 wrote: »

That was myself.

The LD2XXs worked it more than once and were in the past semi-regular on the run.

Whilst I have never seen a LF on it I have seen the LD3XXs on it on a few occasions and even an SE. The LD3XXs are the same lenght as the LFs and the SEs are only 0.2m shorter.

VWD8 found itself on the 123 just last week, first time I've seen a VWD on that run meaning I have seen everything in the current fleet bar the LE, LF and DD work the route.

Problem I have with reports like this from the city center is they aren't actually factual

A few months ago lads in the city were reporting an LF on the X8 to cork going out the quays of Dublin, when infact it didn't.... It was being changed over on the way out of Dublin to a different bus.

pad199207

Spotted in Naas today, will these be the new buses ?