Family of seven sleep in Garda station Mod note post one

2011

end of the road wrote: »

because a lot of private sector workers won't join the unions

Source???
Where are you getting this bullish!t from?

Plenty of private sector worker are in unions.

Deebles McBeebles

Someone might be able to fill in the blanks here but on Newstalk yesterday evening I heard an interview with the ex-head of one of the travellers rights associations demanding a separate housing list and stock for travellers.

Doesn't seem awfully fair to have one housing list for 40k odd people and one for the rest of us. This whole separate ethnic minority thing is getting out of hand.

Juanito13

Cash me if you can

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Cash me outside (how bou da)

jay0109

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

Someone might be able to fill in the blanks here but on Newstalk yesterday evening I heard an interview with the ex-head of one of the travellers rights associations demanding a separate housing list and stock for travellers.

Doesn't seem awfully fair to have one housing list for 40k odd people and one for the rest of us. This whole separate ethnic minority thing is getting out of hand.

Was that the same woman who said she was currently in a house and didn't like it. And her husband didn't like it either.
She has 11 kids and 30 grandkids with 2 more on the way. She wanted a site where she could live with the 2 + 11 + 30(2).
When the reporter said was it practical to expect Councils to have available sites/accomm for such large, and ever growing families, she started waffling in generalities about the state of the housing market.

And to think the census every 5 years has the Traveller population at a static figure of around 30k if I recall correctly.

jay0109

s

jay0109 wrote: »

And to think the census every 5 years has the Traveller population at a static figure of around 30k if I recall correctly.

Take a look at traveller mortality levels, including suicide rates.

About half of all travellers die before their 40th birthdays.

Heres Johnny

jay0109 wrote: »

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

Someone might be able to fill in the blanks here but on Newstalk yesterday evening I heard an interview with the ex-head of one of the travellers rights associations demanding a separate housing list and stock for travellers.

Doesn't seem awfully fair to have one housing list for 40k odd people and one for the rest of us. This whole separate ethnic minority thing is getting out of hand.

Was that the same woman who said she was currently in a house and didn't like it. And her husband didn't like it either.
She has 11 kids and 30 grandkids with 2 more on the way. She wanted a site where she could live with the 2 + 11 + 30(2).
When the reporter said was it practical to expect Councils to have available sites/accomm for such large, and ever growing families, she started waffling in generalities about the state of the housing market.

And to think the census every 5 years has the Traveller population at a static figure of around 30k if I recall correctly.

Population static because they're dying as quick as they are procreating. Thankfully.

Reality tv show idea

'My fanny is a cash machine'

Deebles McBeebles

jay0109 wrote: »

Was that the same woman who said she was currently in a house and didn't like it. And her husband didn't like it either.
She has 11 kids and 30 grandkids with 2 more on the way. She wanted a site where she could live with the 2 + 11 + 30(2).
When the reporter said was it practical to expect Councils to have available sites/accomm for such large, and ever growing families, she started waffling in generalities about the state of the housing market.

And to think the census every 5 years has the Traveller population at a static figure of around 30k if I recall correctly.

The very one. The free house wasn't good enough and they are being terrorised because its illegal to park on the side of the road these days.

Dannyriver

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

s
Take a look at traveller mortality levels, including suicide rates.

About half of all travellers die before their 40th birthdays.

Must be the wonderful living conditions and state aid that has them all living these ideal lives, sitting around all day in plush gowns laughing at all us hard working tax payers paying for their ideal lifestyles.

Deebles McBeebles

Heres Johnny wrote: »

Reality tv show idea

'My fanny is a cash machine'

Find Me A Home

mynamejeff

Heres Johnny wrote: »

.

Reality tv show idea

'My fanny is a cash machine'

thats about the size of it , the with and debt of it too

Cantona's Collars

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

Someone might be able to fill in the blanks here but on Newstalk yesterday evening I heard an interview with the ex-head of one of the travellers rights associations demanding a separate housing list and stock for travellers.

Doesn't seem awfully fair to have one housing list for 40k odd people and one for the rest of us. This whole separate ethnic minority thing is getting out of hand.

They were built halting sites but these days it's the trend to place them into social housing. So now they want their social housing but in estates strictly for themselves. That's basically self imposed ghettoisation.
In one part of my town they bought up virtually every property and guess where ms. Cash and her burglar buddies went robbing? The homes of their own "minority".

Deebles McBeebles

Dannyriver wrote: »

Must be the wonderful living conditions and state aid that has them all living these ideal lives, sitting around all day in plush gowns laughing at all us hard working tax payers paying for their ideal lifestyles.

I'd be dead by 40 too if I sat around doing what I wanted without having to work for anything.

Deebles McBeebles

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

I'd be dead by 40 too if I sat around doing what I wanted without having to work for anything.

Would you hire a traveller?

Lets be honest, most people wouldn't. It's a bit rich to complain about the unemployment level within that community, when it's socially acceptable to admit you'd discriminate against a traveller.

Don't lets kid ourselves that we'd all be where we are today if we were born and reared in traveller families. There's this myth that people love to embrace, especially in the middle classes, that 'I am where I am by dint of my own hard work and intelligence'. And that's usually BS.

xi5yvm0owc1s2b

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

About half of all travellers die before their 40th birthdays.

Where did you get that figure?

Dannyriver

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

I'd be dead by 40 too if I sat around doing what I wanted without having to work for anything.

So you think addiction/violence/depression and suicide are a choice yeah?

Judson Calm Remote

Judson Calm Remote wrote: »

Where did you get that figure?

It comes from a major survey, published about 10 years ago, called Travellers' Last Rights: Responding to Death in a Cultural Context


The same study found that 1 in 10 traveller infants die before the age of two (ten times higher than the typical infant death rate)

Deebles McBeebles

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Would you hire a traveller?

Nope.

Dannyriver wrote: »

So you think addiction/violence/depression and suicide are a choice yeah?

I think in certain circumstances they are symptoms of a lifestyle choice. Symptoms that can be felt by any member of society, not just travellers.

xi5yvm0owc1s2b

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

It comes from a major survey, published about 10 years ago, called Travellers' Last Rights: Responding to Death in a Cultural Context

Thanks. I just looked it up.

The findings are contained in a new book, 'Travellers' Last Rights: Responding to Death in a Cultural Context', compiled by the Parish of the Travelling People from data related to 255 people and collated between 1995 and 2004 in the Dublin area.

I'd note that the Parish of the Travelling People is a religious group, and so I'd wonder about their qualifications to compile mortality statistics? Also, the conclusions are based on data on just 255 people? And the data were collated between 1995 and 2004, so some of the data is over 20 years old?

The All-Ireland Traveller Health Study, released in 2010, does show that travellers have lower life expectancy and higher infant mortality than the settled population. Life expectancy for travellers is estimated to be 61.7 for men and 70.1 for women, while infant mortality in the traveller population is estimated at 14.1 per 1,000 live births. But I find it hard to reconcile these stats with the claim that half of all travellers die before age 40 or that 10 percent of traveller children die before age 2.

Dannyriver

Judson Calm Remote wrote: »

Thanks. I just looked it up.



I'd note that the Parish of the Travelling People is a religious group, and so I'd wonder about their qualifications to compile mortality statistics? Also, the conclusions are based on data on just 255 people? And the data were collated between 1995 and 2004, so some of the data is over 20 years old?

The All-Ireland Traveller Health Study, released in 2010, does show that travellers have lower life expectancy and higher infant mortality than the settled population. Life expectancy for travellers is estimated to be 61.7 for men and 70.1 for women, while infant mortality in the traveller population is estimated at 14.1 per 1,000 live births. But I find it hard to reconcile these stats with the claim that half of all travellers die before age 40 or that 10 percent of traveller children die before age 2.

Aw that s alright then what s a few years and baby deaths between friends

PlaneSpeeking

Dannyriver wrote: »

Aw that s alright then what s a few years and baby deaths between friends

And you attach no individual responsibility to the community themselves for the figures ?

Naive at best.

jay0109

Dannyriver wrote: »

Aw that s alright then what s a few years and baby deaths between friends

" a few years"
Just the 20 to 30 extra years. But sher, keep going as you are- find another tangent to go off on until that too is refuted :rolleyes:

Dannyriver

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

And you attach no individual responsibility to the community themselves for the figures ?

Naive at best.

There are a whole raft of sociological/psychological and anthropological studies and literature out there that explain the complexities of the situation that travelers as a community find themselves in. I certainly won't be doing your homework for you.

ParkRunner

Not sure if this was posted already, a Romanian family ended up staying in a hospital due to no space in a Garda station. The Cash case was referenced also

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/family-including-six-children-forced-to-sleep-in-hospital-as-they-had-nowhere-to-go-37312080.html

KrustyUCC

It was mentioned alright

Unlike Ms Cash the Roma as EU citizens that cannot support themselves could simple be sent home

Job done and at very little expense to the taxpayer

gwalk

6 adults and 6 kids tickets for the next vehicle to Romania

job done

pay your way or F*ck off

Victor Meldrew

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Would you hire a traveller?

Lets be honest, most people wouldn't. It's a bit rich to complain about the unemployment level within that community, when it's socially acceptable to admit you'd discriminate against a traveller.

Don't lets kid ourselves that we'd all be where we are today if we were born and reared in traveller families. There's this myth that people love to embrace, especially in the middle classes, that 'I am where I am by dint of my own hard work and intelligence'. And that's usually BS.

Most of us 'are where we are because of what our parents did in making us work at school , or, by dint of inheritance.

The unemployable have their parents to blame. Sometimes there is tragedy that derails a kid, but mostly, it is parenting....

As a parent, I've another 15 to 20 years before my kids can be deemed successfully raised (no judgement till they are around 25, as that is when you can reasonably expect independence)

xi5yvm0owc1s2b

Dannyriver wrote: »

There are a whole raft of sociological/psychological and anthropological studies and literature out there that explain the complexities of the situation that travelers as a community find themselves in.

Certainly, there are bucketloads of studies out there that will blame the settled population for the plight of travellers. I'm sure academics have devoted thousands of pages to documenting discrimination against travellers and their marginalization by the settled population. But very few will have been brave enough to look at the impact of travellers' own choices on their situation.

Consider that if Ms Cash had not left school at age 12 and got married at age 15, she might not be in the position she is in today.

Who is to blame for that? I'm sure you'll have some contorted way to blame the settled population -- when in reality it's travellers' own culture that supports these traditions of early school leaving and couples getting married in their mid-teens. The Irish state has even passed laws saying that children have to stay in school till age 16, and that nobody can get married until age 18 -- but travellers blithely ignore those laws, taking their kids out of school regardless and shipping young couples up to the North or off to England so they can get married younger.

Before you try to "explain the complexities of the situation that travelers as a community find themselves in," look at the situation that travellers have created for themselves.

Any other family in Ireland that took their daughter out of school at age 12 and married her off as a child bride at age 15 would have been royally roasted in the court of public opinion, and probably faced prosecution in the courts. But when travellers do it, we're expected to say nothing and turn a blind eye. Why?

Heres Johnny

All this talk of discrimination is nonsense.
I was heavily involved in hiring in a previous career and I had the exact profile of a person I wanted for every job and I did indeed discriminate based on age, gender, nationality

Receptionist and some office admin jobs, young ladies. Good looking most of the time too. Native English speakers only.

Service engineer and manufacturing jobs, men only. Women applied but never once hired one. Couldn't do the jobs.

Men are men and women are women in my eyes. We have different strengths and weaknesses.

Now I'm never going to hire a traveler for either of these jobs. The male traveler in the service engineer job wouldn't get past security on client sites and if he did he would rob the place blind. And rob everything from my company's van and stores too.

The female traveler wouldn't have the telephone manner or the aptitude for the office job. And she'd be off pregnant the whole time.

In both cases colleagues would leave if I made them work with travelers too.

So No, I wouldn't hire them. I know one guy that did because he felt she deserved a chance. The traveler brought her kid in one day and the kid robbed all the cutlery from the canteen.

And I'll tell you one thing for nothing, if a traveler had a job going he wouldn't employ me or anyone settled either. But I'm fine with that.

Gimme A Pound

Yeah one of the realities of business is that companies will obviously say that they comply with the anti discrimination laws but that doesn't mean they actually do. And it can't be proven that they don't.

Not personal - businesses need to make money and supporting ideals isn't always compatible with that. Corporate social responsibility/charity involvement should be the measure of how socially/ethicly aware they are.