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President Michael D Higgins’ €3,000 a night hotel stays

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    #452
    PlaneSpeeking
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,106 ✭✭✭PlaneSpeeking


    topper75 wrote: »
    He wants to put checks on immigration. He wants to ensure that our culture is not eroded or homogenised because he values it and there believes that it is worth protecting.
    I don't think, as you claim, that he believes in one race being superior to another.
    We are not the world. We are Irish. Is that 'narrow'?
    I am not international. I am Irish. I am not one bit ashamed of that either. Somebody who would instead project that would make for a great president.
    He is a man of the arts every bit as much as Higgins. He doesn't have any posh socialist baggage with him.
    I think that might be of interest to most Irish people.

    I'll hold my hands up and say the more I read about him the more I agree.

    Can't say yet if I'd vote for him but my initial antagonism has gone. I'm open to listen.


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    #453
    Turnipman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 789 ✭✭✭Turnipman


    Good to see that the outrage of the many regarding the hidden costs of the Presidency may finally have forced the custodians of public expenditure to put on their skates.

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/presidential-spending-scrutiny-100-within-remit-of-dail-committee-861798.html

    (I was bemused to see the Examiner journalist referring to the PAC as a "powerful" Committee - was he implying that some of the other Committees are powerless?)


  • Options
    #454
    topper75
    Registered Users Posts: 5,942 ✭✭✭topper75


    PlaneSpeeking wrote: »
    I'll hold my hands up and say the more I read about him the more I agree.

    Can't say yet if I'd vote for him but my initial antagonism has gone. I'm open to listen.

    I also want to hear more. But all I can say is that what he has come out with so far makes sense. An establishment shoe-in is not healthy politics.

    Meanwhile, beyond individuals and the terms they serve, there ought to be some legislative restraint of presidential expenditure. I don't like this current 'none of your business taxpayer, just keep paying' arrangement.


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    #455
    Turnipman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 789 ✭✭✭Turnipman


    Riskymove wrote: »
    ?

    250k by 14 = 3.5m (taxable by the way so really about half that)

    While President he is donating his Oireachtas Pension to the State and has turned down the increases due under PS pay restoration

    He would be getting quite a good State Pension for doing nothing for these years so, whatever his reasons for running, it isn't about money

    Agreed.

    I think that the debate about the presidency shouldn't be about the incumbent's salary or what portion of it they offer to waive.

    Do we really want to see the campaign become a form of Dutch auction in which the richer the candidate and the larger the amount of salary that he/she is willing to waive the more acceptable that he/she becomes?

    I understand that Trump isn't drawing any salary - does that make him a good President?


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    #456
    badtoro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 482 ✭✭badtoro


    seamus wrote: »
    The president of any EU country is a potential target for any lone fringe loony, no matter how soft a target they may be. No need to make it easy for them.

    Too many eggs in that there fantasy pudding. No self respecting "lone fringe loony" would pick MEH (funny that auto correct changes MDH to "MEH") as a target.


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    #457
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,407 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    badtoro wrote: »
    Too many eggs in that there fantasy pudding. No self respecting "lone fringe loony" would pick MEH (funny that auto correct changes MDH to "MEH") as a target.

    So no islamic nutjob hellbent on jihad would happily kill the president of a christian country?


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    #458
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    badtoro wrote: »
    Too many eggs in that there fantasy pudding. No self respecting "lone fringe loony" would pick MEH (funny that auto correct changes MDH to "MEH") as a target.
    If we've learned nothing else about the fringe loonies, it's that they always go for the easy targets. There's no grand plan or sophisticated technology, just one idiot with some weapons and defenseless targets.

    Saying that fringe loonies would never go for MDH is as short-sighted as claiming that Ireland could "never" be a target.

    An unlikely target, perhaps, but that doesn't mean we should be complacent.


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    #459
    badtoro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 482 ✭✭badtoro


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    So no islamic nutjob hellbent on jihad would happily kill the president of a christian country?

    Are you operating under an assumption that would be difficult to do here, in Ireland? Or to assassinate many other members of Government?

    You'd meet the Taoiseach at the ploughing, the President at a poetry recital, most ministers at some or other opening or event.

    It's really not rocket science.

    The reason they're not being shot at left, right, and centre is they're just not important.


  • Options
    #460
    PlaneSpeeking
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,106 ✭✭✭PlaneSpeeking


    badtoro wrote: »
    Are you operating under an assumption that would be difficult to do here, in Ireland? Or to assassinate many other members of Government?

    You'd meet the Taoiseach at the ploughing, the President at a poetry recital, most ministers at some or other opening or event.

    It's really not rocket science.

    The reason they're not being shot at left, right, and centre is they're just not important.

    MDH was in my workplace, I shook his hand.

    You wouldn't get away with it but that is the basic jihadi MO - virgins and paradise and that ****e they believe.

    Complacency is the enemy.


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    #461
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,407 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    badtoro wrote: »
    Are you operating under an assumption that would be difficult to do here, in Ireland? Or to assassinate many other members of Government?

    You'd meet the Taoiseach at the ploughing, the President at a poetry recital, most ministers at some or other opening or event.

    It's really not rocket science.

    The reason they're not being shot at left, right, and centre is they're just not important.

    Im saying it could happen, the threat possibility is there hence the need for security.


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    #462
    xi5yvm0owc1s2b
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭xi5yvm0owc1s2b


    badtoro wrote: »
    Are you operating under an assumption that would be difficult to do here, in Ireland?

    It would be a fairly trivial exercise for any determined person to assassinate Higgins, Varadkar, or any other prominent Irish politician. As you note, Irish politicians often appear in public with minimal or no protection -- one recent minister was even known to cycle to work through the streets of Dublin with no security detail.

    "Security," while regularly trotted out to excuse otherwise inexcusable state expenditure or abuse of power, is not a convincing rationale for lavish spending on politicians' travel or accommodation arrangements, especially when the president of a small neutral peaceful country is visiting another small neutral peaceful country like Switzerland, which has seen only one political assassination in the past 60 years (an Iranian opposition leader in 1990).

    To posit that Higgins would have been in some sort of danger outside his €3,000 hotel suite is a fairly ridiculous argument.


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    #463
    badtoro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 482 ✭✭badtoro


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    Im saying it could happen, the threat possibility is there hence the need for security.

    A great white shark could eat me if I go for a swim on the local beach. I demand shark nets for Irish beaches to protect the population.


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    #464
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,407 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Luka Broad Bassist wrote: »
    It would be a fairly trivial exercise for any determined person to assassinate Higgins, Varadkar, or any other prominent Irish politician. As you note, Irish politicians often appear in public with minimal or no protection -- one recent minister was even known to cycle to work through the streets of Dublin with no security detail.

    "Security," while regularly trotted out to excuse otherwise inexcusable state expenditure or abuse of power, is not a convincing rationale for lavish spending on politicians' travel or accommodation arrangements, especially when the president of a small neutral peaceful country is visiting another small neutral peaceful country like Switzerland, which has seen only one political assassination in the past 60 years (an Iranian opposition leader in 1990).

    To posit that Higgins would have been in some sort of danger outside his €3,000 hotel suite is a fairly ridiculous argument.

    Any evidence yet that the suite he stayed in cost €3000


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    #465
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,407 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    badtoro wrote: »
    A great white shark could eat me if I go for a swim on the local beach. I demand shark nets for Irish beaches to protect the population.

    You're not important ;)


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    #466
    badtoro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 482 ✭✭badtoro


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    You're not important ;)

    Neither is anyone else entering the sea, or using it for recreation then, including elected, or coronated* officials. Its about the same level of threat as MDH being knocked off. Actually, with climate change It's probably more likely to be eaten by a great white.


  • Options
    #467
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,407 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    badtoro wrote: »
    Neither is anyone else entering the sea, or using it for recreation then, including elected, or coronated* officials. Its about the same level of threat as MDH being knocked off. Actually, with climate change It's probably more likely to be eaten by a great white.

    You go into the sea you are entering the sharks terrirory same.if you enter woods where bears live, anyone mauled/bitten/killed by a wild animal in thier own territory gets no sympathy from.me.


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    #468
    badtoro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 482 ✭✭badtoro


    seamus wrote: »
    If we've learned nothing else about the fringe loonies, it's that they always go for the easy targets. There's no grand plan or sophisticated technology, just one idiot with some weapons and defenseless targets.

    Saying that fringe loonies would never go for MDH is as short-sighted as claiming that Ireland could "never" be a target.

    An unlikely target, perhaps, but that doesn't mean we should be complacent.

    I see little value in attacking Ireland. As a state we're too useful as useful idiots. We do provide some air transit services for the US. We do have generally good relations with other countries. But we're not any important piece of the geopolitical puzzle.

    Most attacks in recent seen relate to mass casualty situations. Shock and awe as Rummy might have put it. As a terrorist, and possibly one with no worry of capture, one would be foolish to go to the trouble of assassinating an unimportant official of an unimportant nation, in the grand scheme of the world. He is not the head of state of India, or Iran, or Iraq.

    There are far easier and juicer targets available in this Republic if one was of a mind to do that sort of nonsense.


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    #469
    Turnipman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 789 ✭✭✭Turnipman


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    Any evidence yet that the suite he stayed in cost €3000

    I almost feel sorry for you. That pass mark that you scraped in Ordinary Level Leaving Cert maths has become an albatross around your neck.

    Unlike you, the more mathematically gifted posters on this thread are able to use inductive reasoning. Thus, when presented with the three simple facts that follow are well able to draw their own conclusions.

    1. The President of Ireland is always booked into the most expensive room or suite available in any hotel where he stays.

    2. The President of Ireland stayed in the Beau Rivage Hotel in Geneva for two nights.

    3. The cost of the most expensive rooms/suites in the Beau Rivage Hotel in Geneva is in the range €2,750 to €3,100 per night.

    QED.

    Banned.


  • Options
    #470
    Edgware
    Registered Users Posts: 5,875 ✭✭✭Edgware


    badtoro wrote: »
    A great white shark could eat me if I go for a swim on the local beach. I demand shark nets for Irish beaches to protect the population.
    And big nets to catch planes that fall out of the sky


  • Options
    #471
    batgoat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭batgoat


    Turnipman wrote: »
    I almost feel sorry for you. That pass mark that you scraped in Ordinary Level Leaving Cert maths has become an albatross around your neck.

    Unlike you, the more mathematically gifted posters on this thread are able to use inductive reasoning. Thus, when presented with the three simple facts that follow are well able to draw their own conclusions.

    1. The President of Ireland is always booked into the most expensive room or suite available in any hotel where he stays.

    2. The President of Ireland stayed in the Beau Rivage Hotel in Geneva for two nights.

    3. The cost of the most expensive rooms/suites in the Beau Rivage Hotel in Geneva is in the range €2,750 to €3,100 per night.

    QED.

    The president of Ireland most likely had no involvement in the choosing of his hotel. It's not even clear if the state payed for the room or if it was covered by organisers since he was a keynote speaker. So really, mountain out of a molehill. Also, pretty petty initial remarks about the poster's intelligence. Completely unnecessary.


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    #472
    xi5yvm0owc1s2b
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭xi5yvm0owc1s2b


    Turnipman wrote: »
    3. The cost of the most expensive rooms/suites in the Beau Rivage Hotel in Geneva is in the range €2,750 to €3,100 per night.

    So pedantic has this debate become that if it turned out Higgins's suite cost €2,999 per night, you'd have some people dancing around going "See! I told you he didn't stay in a €3,000 room!"

    The other issue, as you note, is that Higgins stayed in the hotel for two nights. So the likely cost to the taxpayer is closer to €6,000 than €3,000. Add in the cost of his flights, meals, and other expenses, and we're probably well into five figures.


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    #473
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,815 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Turnipman wrote: »
    I almost feel sorry for you. That pass mark that you scraped in Ordinary Level Leaving Cert maths has become an albatross around your neck.

    Unlike you, the more mathematically gifted posters on this thread are able to use inductive reasoning. Thus, when presented with the three simple facts that follow are well able to draw their own conclusions.

    1. The President of Ireland is always booked into the most expensive room or suite available in any hotel where he stays.

    2. The President of Ireland stayed in the Beau Rivage Hotel in Geneva for two nights.

    3. The cost of the most expensive rooms/suites in the Beau Rivage Hotel in Geneva is in the range €2,750 to €3,100 per night.

    QED.

    So no evidence then.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Options
    #474
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,407 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Turnipman wrote: »
    I almost feel sorry for you. That pass mark that you scraped in Ordinary Level Leaving Cert maths has become an albatross around your neck.

    Unlike you, the more mathematically gifted posters on this thread are able to use inductive reasoning. Thus, when presented with the three simple facts that follow are well able to draw their own conclusions.

    1. The President of Ireland is always booked into the most expensive room or suite available in any hotel where he stays.

    2. The President of Ireland stayed in the Beau Rivage Hotel in Geneva for two nights.

    3. The cost of the most expensive rooms/suites in the Beau Rivage Hotel in Geneva is in the range €2,750 to €3,100 per night.

    QED.

    Nice personal attack (i have a masters degree in computer science by the way)

    So no evidence he stayed in said suite or that the Irish taxpayer paid for it?

    Your outrageous outrage is laughable at best, you have my pity.


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    #475
    badtoro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 482 ✭✭badtoro


    Edgware wrote: »
    And big nets to catch planes that fall out of the sky

    Excellent idea, very much needed too!


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    #476
    Turnipman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 789 ✭✭✭Turnipman


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    So no evidence then.

    Correct and right! Good lad, give yourself a rolo!

    Presumably you were too busy moderating elsewhere to read that the Irish Freedom of Information legislation doesn't cover the Aras; hence it is well-night impossible to produce the desired evidence.

    That's why, as I carefully explained above, in a situation like this, it is necessary to apply inductive logic (more widely known as 'basic cop-on').


  • Options
    #477
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 33,938 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    Thankfully most Irish people would not support Sharkeys narrow racist vision.

    I see that eejit Sharkey has gone full-on Trump supporter now :rolleyes:

    Life ain't always empty.



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    #478
    flookdgates
    Site Banned Posts: 67 ✭✭flookdgates


    Found this link on Reddit from a few years ago...
    When will Higgins address the rumours?

    https://www.reddit.com/r/ireland/comments/2vgpjg/has_anybody_else_here_heard_can_anybody_confirm/


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    #479
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,407 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    flookdgates wrote: »
    Found this link on Reddit from a few years ago...
    When will Higgins address the rumours?

    https://www.reddit.com/r/ireland/comments/2vgpjg/has_anybody_else_here_heard_can_anybody_confirm/

    Why should he?

    Would it bother you if he was gay?

    Is it any if your business if he is?


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    #480
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,156 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    flookdgates wrote: »
    Found this link on Reddit from a few years ago...
    When will Higgins address the rumours?

    https://www.reddit.com/r/ireland/comments/2vgpjg/has_anybody_else_here_heard_can_anybody_confirm/


    Why would he address idle gossip and thus give it currency?


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    #481
    batgoat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭batgoat


    flookdgates wrote: »
    Found this link on Reddit from a few years ago...
    When will Higgins address the rumours?

    https://www.reddit.com/r/ireland/comments/2vgpjg/has_anybody_else_here_heard_can_anybody_confirm/

    Why should he? From all I can see, the basis of the rumours are because he's softly spoken and into the arts...


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