Problem with BRNO .22 bolt.

Rows Grower

Right, first off it's a recent purchase, a model 2 about 30 years old and I'm beginning to think it was the cheapest in the shop for a good reason.

It never really ejected spent casings 100%, this became frustrating after a while so after asking a few guys and watching some youtube videos I stripped down the bolt and found not only was it really dirty but when I examined the spring it broke in the middle.

Grand job, I eventually sourced a new spring thinking this would be problem solved but now I find when I have the bolt assembled the handle of the bolt will not move back the base of the firing pin enough to allow the handle into the "up" position. It will move the pin back a little (a couple of mill) but just not enough.

There is a bit of "play" in the handle (couple of mill) between the safety and the wider part of the bolt, is this normal or due to excessive wear and tear?

Has anyone else encountered this issue with an old .22 BRNO and if so is it easily fixable?

Is it strictly a job for a gunsmith and if so how much roughly would one charge?

Am I better off to buy another rifle and cut my losses?

Any help or advice greatly appreciated.

Pkiernan

Interested in this post.

I have a BRNO from 1969 that still functions flawlessly, but I won't know what to do if the bolt fails on me.

Cass

Rows Grower wrote: »

Grand job, I eventually sourced a new spring thinking this would be problem solved but now I find when I have the bolt assembled the handle of the bolt will not move back the base of the firing pin enough to allow the handle into the "up" position. It will move the pin back a little (a couple of mill) but just not enough.

And it worked fine before the spring change?

If so then the spring is the problem. Either too strong, not the right one, or not fitting 100%. If the problem existed before the change then it may not be the spring, but when you get a problem after fixing/repairing/replacing a part look to it as the source of any new problem.

There is a bit of "play" in the handle (couple of mill) between the safety and the wider part of the bolt, is this normal or due to excessive wear and tear?

When cocked there should be little to no play. When decocked there can be play. As long as it's not excessive you're fine. My one is from 1990, so 28 years old and has a touch of play when decocked.

Has anyone else encountered this issue with an old .22 BRNO and if so is it easily fixable?

I'll be honest, and it could be sleep deprivation, but i'm not really picturing the issue.

When you say "the bolt won't move the back of firing pin back enough" what exactly do you mean? When the bolt is decocked, whether in or out of the rifle, the firing pin shaft is flush with the rear of the bolt body as per the picture.



When cocked and ready to fire it protrudes, just a little. Does your one do this, or is this what you are talking about?

Also when you say the handle won't lift to the up position do you mean it won't lift at all?

If so is seems perhaps that the bolt was not assembled correctly. Can you remove it from the rifle? If so, and even if you're sure you have done it right, then it s no harm to strip the bolt and reassemble again. Also make sure there is no oil in the bolt. It should be wiped with an oily rag, but have no oil in it.

Lastly pictures speak a thousand words. Sometimes a situation becomes more complicated because people (i mean me ) have trouble picturing the problem so if you can upload pictures and point out the problem it might help.

cookimonster

OP, don't give up on your gun, there are plenty of .22 Brno's from 1960s etc still performing flawlessmy. They one issue I have with my one is the original magazine is getting tired and worn and can cause a issue on feeding.

Reference the bolt issue I will secound Cass on his advice, if it was working before then the issue is the new part and / or reassembly.

As to your initial problem
It never really ejected spent casings 100%, this became frustrating, there are a few simple things:

1. Ammunition choice, obviously accuracy is important, but so is functionabilty, some guns just don't like certain brands of ammo. Poor feeding or extraction etc etc.

2. Check your magazine, we had two Mod 2 Brno in the house with about 10 years difference in age and although you could interchange the magazines mine was a bit fussy as to which one I used. Mainly causing poor feeds.

3. Lastly and take no offence from this is the technique in which you cycle the action. Even the little .22 with its ever so short action requires a smooth and full stroke of the bolt, bringing the bolt handle fully to the rear in firm fluid motion. There is little or no weight to the empty casing and even tilting the rifle to the left with poor bolt cycle could cause the case not to eject perfectly. An old Brno once it half cleaned (in some cases half cleaned meant that a thirty year old gun was cleaned 15yrs ago) should be smooth like butter on loading and unloading.

Rows Grower

Cass wrote: »

And it worked fine before the spring change?

If so then the spring is the problem. Either too strong, not the right one, or not fitting 100%. If the problem existed before the change then it may not be the spring, but when you get a problem after fixing/repairing/replacing a part look to it as the source of any new problem.


When cocked there should be little to no play. When decocked there can be play. As long as it's not excessive you're fine. My one is from 1990, so 28 years old and has a touch of play when decocked.


I'll be honest, and it could be sleep deprivation, but i'm not really picturing the issue.

When you say "the bolt won't move the back of firing pin back enough" what exactly do you mean? When the bolt is decocked, whether in or out of the rifle, the firing pin shaft is flush with the rear of the bolt body as per the picture.



When cocked and ready to fire it protrudes, just a little. Does your one do this, or is this what you are talking about?

Also when you say the handle won't lift to the up position do you mean it won't lift at all?

If so is seems perhaps that the bolt was not assembled correctly. Can you remove it from the rifle? If so, and even if you're sure you have done it right, then it s no harm to strip the bolt and reassemble again. Also make sure there is no oil in the bolt. It should be wiped with an oily rag, but have no oil in it.

Lastly pictures speak a thousand words. Sometimes a situation becomes more complicated because people (i mean me ) have trouble picturing the problem so if you can upload pictures and point out the problem it might help.

Hi Cass, first off thank you very much for taking the time and the trouble to respond to my post. I'm sorry I could not reply sooner but I was working flat out all day. In hindsight I should have waited for a quieter day work wise to post and also should have posted pictures which I won't be able to do until my son gets home tomorrow evening.

The rifle never really worked 100%, there was a problem with ejecting spent bullets from the start. I put it down to either my inexperience in using firearms or my choice of using the cheapest bullets available.

The original damaged spring I took out was 65mm long and warped in the middle, when I tried to gently straighten it it broke. I got a replacement spring the same size from Chambers & Co. (code cs395). I cleaned the bolt and even left it soak in Brunox for a few days while waiting for the spring and dried it well before assembling.

I must be doing something basic wrong because I cannot even get the bolt back into the rifle. From looking at youtube the handle with the ball on it should be able to turn easily enough around the bolt when it is out of the rifle but mine will not.

In your picture the wings at the end of the firing pin look level with the base of the bolt, I cannot get mine level. When I try to twist the handle they move a little but not all the way back to flush. It's like the pin is too far inside the bolt.

I know this is almost impossible to understand without pictures, I'll get my son to upload some when he gets back from west Cork tomorrow night.

Thanks again for your time and patience.

Rows Grower

cookimonster wrote: »

OP, don't give up on your gun, there are plenty of .22 Brno's from 1960s etc still performing flawlessmy. They one issue I have with my one is the original magazine is getting tired and worn and can cause a issue on feeding.

Reference the bolt issue I will secound Cass on his advice, if it was working before then the issue is the new part and / or reassembly.

As to your initial problem
It never really ejected spent casings 100%, this became frustrating, there are a few simple things:

1. Ammunition choice, obviously accuracy is important, but so is functionabilty, some guns just don't like certain brands of ammo. Poor feeding or extraction etc etc.

2. Check your magazine, we had two Mod 2 Brno in the house with about 10 years difference in age and although you could interchange the magazines mine was a bit fussy as to which one I used. Mainly causing poor feeds.

3. Lastly and take no offence from this is the technique in which you cycle the action. Even the little .22 with its ever so short action requires a smooth and full stroke of the bolt, bringing the bolt handle fully to the rear in firm fluid motion. There is little or no weight to the empty casing and even tilting the rifle to the left with poor bolt cycle could cause the case not to eject perfectly. An old Brno once it half cleaned (in some cases half cleaned meant that a thirty year old gun was cleaned 15yrs ago) should be smooth like butter on loading and unloading.

Hi cookimonster, as above thank you very much for taking the time and trouble to respond.

I'm a novice at shooting and am well aware I probably am at fault here rather than a piece of engineering that has stood the test of time head and shoulders above nearly all competitors.

I hope it is something silly I am not doing right as I really like the rifle and the fact it is so old and full of character.

I'll hopefully get some pictures up tomorrow night that will be more descriptive than my limited written skills.

Thanks again.

cookimonster

When you remove the bolt from the rifle the bolt handle will be in the up position, so if you disasembled the bolt be sure you physically turn the bolt handle upwards back to the same position you where in imeaditly on removal from the action.

With the bolt in your strong hand grasp it firmly and rotate the bolt handle upwards away from the flat bottom of the bolt.
You will see the firing pin withdraw into the bolt face. Now the bolt can be slid back in to the action. Remember to squeeze the trigger both removing and replacing the bolt. You can decock the action on a empty chamber by sqeeuzing the trigger and closing the bolt back into battery.

Cass

Cookimonster has it covered.

If that fails, i'd recommend disassembling the bolt, and assembling it again. I done it once and when it went back together i had the same problem you describe. Bolt wouldn't cock, wouldn't go into rifle, etc. I stripped it, and redone it and took my time. Second time it worked. not sure what i done wrong, but retracing my steps worked.

PSXDupe

Whereabouts are you based, or what range to you use.


There is most likely someone that could meet you and look at the bolt. Most have owned a Brno or CZ are some point and have strip the bolt for cleaning.


Do you have a photo of the bolt in its current state, one of us might be able to see if there is a issue with the reassembly

Rows Grower

cookimonster wrote: »

When you remove the bolt from the rifle the bolt handle will be in the up position, so if you disasembled the bolt be sure you physically turn the bolt handle upwards back to the same position you where in imeaditly on removal from the action.

With the bolt in your strong hand grasp it firmly and rotate the bolt handle upwards away from the flat bottom of the bolt.
You will see the firing pin withdraw into the bolt face. Now the bolt can be slid back in to the action. Remember to squeeze the trigger both removing and replacing the bolt. You can decock the action on a empty chamber by sqeeuzing the trigger and closing the bolt back into battery.

You Sir, are a f*****g genius with guns!

I don't know how you were able to understand the level of my stupidity and inexperience, but you did.

Plus you explained what to do like a boss, I am forever in your debt.

What a glorious Sunday morning!

Go raibh mile maith agat.

Rows Grower

Cass wrote: »

Cookimonster has it covered.

I'd recommend disassembling the bolt, and assembling it again. I done it once and when it went back together i had the same problem you describe. Bolt wouldn't cock, wouldn't go into rifle, etc. I stripped it, and redone it and took my time. Second time it worked. not sure what i done wrong, but retracing my steps worked.

Cass, thank you sincerely for all the time and effort you put into helping a total stranger.

This forum is unreal for the amount of help and encouragement offered to beginners like myself.

I only hope in years to come I can do something similar for anyone starting out.

Rows Grower

PSXDupe wrote: »

Whereabouts are you based, or what range to you use.


There is most likely someone that could meet you and look at the bolt. Most have owned a Brno or CZ are some point and have strip the bolt for cleaning.


Do you have a photo of the bolt in its current state, one of us might be able to see if there is a issue with the reassembly

The Cookiemonster solved my crisis, but thank you anyway!

Cass

Well done Cookimonster. Not easy to diagnose a problem without seeing it, but sometimes the simplest solution works.

Glad you got sorted Rows Grower.

cookimonster

Glad it worked, may you have long hours of fun shooting it...... if you think that's a pain, don't buy a BSA bolt action, just removing the bolt is an enigma, wrapped in a mystery sealed in a puzzle, but that's another story.

clivej

Sorry friend I have only just seen this thread and glad you got sorted.

Make sure the 2 extractors are in the correct way, they are not the same, different profiles. Photo's will be somewhere on the correct way they go.

Aim small ........ lol

clivej

Sorry friend I have only just seen this thread and glad you got sorted.

Make sure the 2 extractors are in the correct way, they are not the same, different profiles. Photo's will be somewhere on the correct way they go.

Aim small ........ lol