How bad is this rust?

MrCostington

Hello,

Firstly, not sure if this should go here or in DIY, I'll try here but feel free to move Mods.

Was looking at an 1983 Mercedes W123, first time to look at a classic with a view to buy.

I'm wondering how one with more experience than me would assess this rust?

First pic shows the rear quarter panel which obviously needs repair or replacement - which option do you think? A magnet stuck well to all of it bar the obvious rust areas.

Next pic shows under the sill, and the third one shows rear wheel arch but other side of wheel (door side not boot side). Pics terrible quality I know. Last pic is from web - 3 doors have rust at the bottom, the pic would be like the worst of the 3. Edit, actually that pic is a fair bit worse than the worst of the 3 doors, but that is where is is and it did come off when touched.

ObviouslyI'll get any car I'm going to buy checked over, but I'm just wondering if this is considered bad rust or would this make the shortlist to be seen by a pro? In other words, is this a walk away or worth looking at further?

Kenny Logins

It's worse than it looks. Always is.

jeepcj

Whatever you can see times it by 4 as the worst bits will be out of eye view

MrCostington

I understand that it is worse than what you see in general, that's why I'm worried about rust and why I posted here.

So is this a walk away car? (assuming I don't want a 10k bill, which I don't)

w124man

Buy one that isn't rusty. You'll end up spending the same money anyway

MrCostington

w124man wrote: »

Buy one that isn't rusty. You'll end up spending the same money anyway

That's what I was thinking, it's a false economy to buy a rusty one. I'm just starting my search so need points of reference. How do the sills look?

kadman

MrCostington wrote: »

I understand that it is worse than what you see in general, that's why I'm worried about rust and why I posted here.

So is this a walk away car? (assuming I don't want a 10k bill, which I don't)

Its a run away car...Forrest...run.

Unless its a rarity that warrants saving, or a car you are getting cheap,cheap,cheap,

And you intend to do all the resto work your self..

Ask yourself what you can do, and what you have to pay someone else to do.

And 10k doesn't get a lot of resto done either, you,d be shocked at how fast the money goes.

unkel

Looks pretty bad. What's the reg? I bet it hasn't had an NCT in years.

Are you looking for a daily driver or only for occasional use? Are you only looking at Mercedes? Only looking at W123?

MrCostington

kadman wrote: »

Its a run away car...Forrest...run.

Unless its a rarity that warrants saving, or a car you are getting cheap,cheap,cheap,

And you intend to do all the resto work your self..

Ask yourself what you can do, and what you have to pay someone else to do.

And 10k doesn't get a lot of resto done either, you,d be shocked at how fast the money goes.

Well it's not a rare car, so I' run as you suggest, life if like a box of chocolates, I'll wait for a nice one:)


I had no plans to do any body work myself, have no skill or tools in that area.


What I'm trying to gauge here is what is an acceptable level of rust in a ~35 yo car?

kadman

MrCostington wrote: »

Well it's not a rare car, so I' run as you suggest, life if like a box of chocolates, I'll wait for a nice one:)


I had no plans to do any body work myself, have no skill or tools in that area.


What I'm trying to gauge here is what is an acceptable level of rust in a ~35 yo car?

An acceptable level of rust on a 35 year old car...is a level that does not pose any threat to you, or other road users, in any way, shape, or form.
If the rust level does, then its in an unacceptable condition,

I.E., structural rust is a definite no, no
Body rust that can injure you, or someone else, is not acceptable.

major structural repairs cost major money.
Minor body rust, can be filled, for aesthetics if you cannot manage
metalwork repair.

Bite my tongue, i suggested filler:eek::rolleyes:

MrCostington

Thanks kadman.

Just for my further education (I've learned so much here) what parts of the pics I posted says run? I am going to leave it anyway.

w124man

MrCostington wrote: »

Thanks kadman.

Just for my further education (I've learned so much here) what parts of the pics I posted says run? I am going to leave it anyway.

The pics didn't say run! The word 'rust' and the fact that you cant do the repairs yourself ....


Its been said, ten grand doesn't get a lot of resto done. Spend the money on a good one in the first place. There is no such thing as a cheap classic

Max Headroom

I suggest you dont buy a classic at all, or bring someone with you that has experience of classics, even pay a local bodyshop to come with you...
Something like that rust could easily be covered up with primer, they (cowboys) even put metal swarf in the filler these days so magnets can stick to it..beware....;)

kadman

I think the same as /\/\/\, that you should pony up the dough, and buy the best classic you can afford
from a reputable source.

Otherwise you run the risk of getting these types of shocks.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=106557365&postcount=1976

Which only requires time, if you got the skills, or mega amounts of dough
if you dont.

And you would not get this repair for less than 1000 i doubt. And thats only
one corner.

Do the wise thing and get an expert with you on your inspections. Might cost a couple of bob, but could save you 1000's and then some.

MrCostington

Hi Max and kadman, if I may quote myself from my first post - "Obviously I'll get any car I'm going to buy checked over" - I have a guy lined up from the MB club, he has a lift too. I'm just doing the donkey work myself to see what is worth getting him to look at.

kadman, yes I saw that post of yours at the time! You are lucky you are able to do the work yourself, and nice job!

kadman

MrCostington wrote: »

Hi Max and kadman, if I may quote myself from my first post - "Obviously I'll get any car I'm going to buy checked over" - I have a guy lined up from the MB club, he has a lift too. I'm just doing the donkey work myself to see what is worth getting him to look at.

kadman, yes I saw that post of yours at the time! You are lucky you are able to do the work yourself, and nice job!

If you have an expert, why would you( a novice) be doing the groundwork, to guide your expert on what he should be checking???

Are you sure you have the right expert on board.

MrCostington

I was at the Terenure show, the MB owners club had a stand and display there. I spoke to the committee members and explained I was looking for a W123. They introduced me to someone. We chatted and he gave me tips, and answered all my questions in a very comprehensive way. He said he will inspect a car for me at his location and he has a lift to inspect the underside.

We did not discuss money but clearly he will need paying for his time.

So, my process is to look at cars myself (sure I'm no expert but I have driven for over 30 years so not a kid either) and when I find what I think is a good one, get him to look at it. I cannot take him to see, say 5 or 6 cars, as A) I'd be paying him to see cars I would walk away from myself. I'll have to get the owner to drive to his location to use the lift. So again no point to do that for a rust heap.

kadman

Sounds like a good plan.

Good luck:)

mr c

maybe find one in the club would be a better bet ?

MrCostington

mr c wrote: »

maybe find one in the club would be a better bet ?

I asked them that, but they said neither their forum or newsletter has much in it re cars for sale

80sDiesel

This looks decent. Love the colour.
https://www.donedeal.ie/vintagecars-for-sale/1979-mercedes-240-diesel-estate/18757829

MrCostington

80's it does look nice, but hope you don't mind, I'm just after petrol And saloon/coupe.

Also, I read, the later the better as steel quality improved since the 70's also rust protection.

unkel

Looks lovely, great colour. But diesel and manual are the two things you do not want in a W123

80sDiesel

unkel wrote: »

Looks lovely, great colour. But diesel and manual are the two things you do not want in a W123

IMO, diesel and manual is what you want to see in a W123, and especially the estate version. I would hazard a guess that the classic market would agree. ( and I owed 3 petrols; 190e, w114 280ce and S124)

red_ice

w124man wrote: »

Buy one that isn't rusty. You'll end up spending the same money anyway

buy the one in the worst condition possible and spend the same money restoring it. You'll ultimately spend less in the long run and be 100% sure you have a solid car at the end of it

jmreire

Google MBClub.uk or Mercedes Benz Owners forum uk, and ask the same question there. Lots of expert advice to be got, From the pics, if it were me, I would walk, what you can see is the tip of the ice berg. When it goes up on the lift, pay particular attention to the sub frames, front ad back, and of course to the chassis rails. Technically, there is no such thing as a car that cannot be repaired... its all down to the economics. For some one in the trade, who really wanted that particular car, then he could afford to do it up in his own time... piece by piece in his own workshop, when other work would be slack.

MrCostington

jmreire wrote: »

Google MBClub.uk or Mercedes Benz Owners forum uk, and ask the same question there.

Hi, yes I have joined those forums since I started this thread. Still looking ...

jmreire

MrCostington wrote: »

Hi, yes I have joined those forums since I started this thread. Still looking ...

The problem with this ( or any restore project) is that to give a fully qualified opinion, it would need to be full stripped down to the metal ( I'm not joking ) remove literally everything from the car..engine, transmission, rear axle, suspension's , dash, seat's, headlining and even the wiring loom. Then take a grinder to all the visible rust areas, and clean them back until you get good metal. Then based on what you see, make a list of all the panels that will need replacing, and all the panels that can be repaired. Bear in mind that so far we are only speaking about the Body of the car, and not the mechanicals...which would be a separate chapter,which in turn would lead to several sub-chapters ( Engine, Transmission, Rear Axle, Suspension, Brakes etc ) If you were to go down this route, when it is finished,you would have a gem of a car, and know every single thing about it. In terms of costs though...astronomical. To do this kind of restore, you would need a fully equipped workshop, and even if you were prepared to "Have a go" yourself, you would need professional help for a lot of it. To go any other route would basically be a "Cover Up " kind of job..

A friend of mine ( professional panelbeater / mechanic, with his own business )
Bought an old MK1 Ford Cortina, he fancied ( he had worked for a Ford Main dealer for a few years, and felt nostalgic ) He carried out the restore as I have outlined above, and the result was simply stunning. The car looked exactly the same as when it rolled off the production line many years before. He exhibits it at shows occasionally. Took him more than 2 year's to do it.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to turn this into a horror story for you..but just pointing out the reality of the situation.

w124man

There are half a dozen really good examples for sale within the Mercedes Benz Club ranging from £4k - £8k. You need to join the club before you can gain access to the website and forum. There is a huge archive of information on all Mercedes models there. The forums, MBClub.co.uk or Mercedes Benz Owners Forum uk are reasonable places to get info as well

MrCostington

jmreire wrote: »

The problem with this ( or any restore project) is that to give a fully qualified opinion, it would need to be full stripped down to the metal ( I'm not joking ) remove literally everything from the car..engine, transmission, rear axle, suspension's , dash, seat's, headlining and even the wiring loom. Then take a grinder to all the visible rust areas, and clean them back until you get good metal. Then based on what you see, make a list of all the panels that will need replacing, and all the panels that can be repaired. Bear in mind that so far we are only speaking about the Body of the car, and not the mechanicals...which would be a separate chapter,which in turn would lead to several sub-chapters ( Engine, Transmission, Rear Axle, Suspension, Brakes etc ) If you were to go down this route, when it is finished,you would have a gem of a car, and know every single thing about it. In terms of costs though...astronomical. To do this kind of restore, you would need a fully equipped workshop, and even if you were prepared to "Have a go" yourself, you would need professional help for a lot of it. To go any other route would basically be a "Cover Up " kind of job..

Good points and very true. In an ideal world I'd love to have the space/time/skills/money to do all that (or buy from Mark Cosovich and the like), but in reality I'm just going to have to take my chances and do what checks I can before buying. I did do a nut and bolt restore of a Honda Noddy once (CD175) but a much smaller project then that could be done in a shed.

MrCostington

w124man wrote: »

There are half a dozen really good examples for sale within the Mercedes Benz Club ranging from £4k - £8k. You need to join the club before you can gain access to the website and forum. There is a huge archive of information on all Mercedes models there. The forums, MBClub.co.uk or Mercedes Benz Owners Forum uk are reasonable places to get info as well

Thanks, I am actually a member since Oct. Have still not been approved to get into the forum, I'll email Catherine again. Had a look at the ads when I joined, forgot about them, thanks for reminder will look again tonight.