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Galway..... Can traffic wardens fine for no tax displayed on a motorcycle?

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    #32
    Sonics2k
    Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    I refuse to display mine on the grounds I had 3 nicked in 2 years many years ago.

    Only one time has a Guard asked me to present it at a checkpoint since I got the Deauville, out of the 10 or so that I've gone through in the last 12 months and he was perfectly satisfied with me keeping it in my jacket.

    edit: But, the law is sadly the law. Non-display is illegal so they can still fine you for not doing so.


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    #33
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,761 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    Sonics2k wrote: »
    But, the law is sadly the law. Non-display is illegal so they can still fine you for not doing so.

    Yes it is, but if the law doesn't stipulate where, then it's your choice of where. The fact that a warden can't see it doesn't mean it's not displayed.

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



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    #34
    Sonics2k
    Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    galwaytt wrote: »
    Yes it is, but if the law doesn't stipulate where, then it's your choice of where. The fact that a warden can't see it doesn't mean it's not displayed.

    Do they not take photos of the bike? I assume any half intelligent one will take a number of photos of the bike, and I'm sure the disc must be clearly visible.


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    #35
    Emmersonn
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,128 ✭✭✭Emmersonn


    Sonics2k wrote: »
    Do they not take photos of the bike? I assume any half intelligent one will take a number of photos of the bike, and I'm sure the disc must be clearly visible.


    Sadly to say "half intelligence" is not a requirement to become a traffic warden. :D


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    #36
    Cienciano
    Registered Users Posts: 14,232 ✭✭✭✭Cienciano


    Technically, the traffic warden was right. But he's also a prick. I mean €60 for not displaying the disc which only costs €88 is ridiculous. I've had 2 stolen over the years, last one was last year. I haven't replaced it and like most, carry it in my pocket.


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    #37
    Max Headroom
    Registered Users Posts: 7,101 ✭✭✭Max Headroom


    Just curios OP...where was the bike parked..?? was it legal, on the path, why would he bother is what i'm asking really..??


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    #38
    kevboselecta
    Registered Users Posts: 13 ✭kevboselecta


    Max Headroom wrote: »
    Just curios OP...where was the bike parked..?? was it legal, on the path, why would he bother is what i'm asking really..??
    It was parked off in a corner of a car park, not on a path or in an allocated space, it was in a place were it wouldn't have affected anyone or anything.


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    #39
    macplaxton
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 2,957 Mod ✭✭✭✭macplaxton


    Del2005 wrote: »
    I have a vague recollection that some people in the UK used to put a colour copy of the disc in the holder with "Duplicate, original with owner" written on it, can't remember if it worked or I made it up though.

    I've seen that. The trouble in many UK places is that the parking control is subbed-out and so contractors will probably issue a ticket on a technically correct* basis. Highly likely to be overturned on appeal though.

    I've also seen discs laminated into the numberplate, but I don't think I could be bothered getting a new number plate every year.

    *and sometimes just plain make things up https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-24194533


    galwaytt wrote: »
    Unlike a car, a motorcycle doesn't (always) have a windscreen, so there is no fixed place to display it. You can, literally, put it anywhere.

    I display mine, but you're going to have to look, to find it, but technically, it is 'displayed'. Never had a Garda challenge it.

    You can't just display it anywhere! Have you read the regulations?

    It must be on the nearside AND in a conspicuous position.

    If someone has to look (hard) to find it, then it isn't in a "conspicuous position."

    (As already stated, mine isn't displayed and I've only had it out once at a dozen or so checkpoints)



    Sonics2k wrote: »
    and I'm sure the disc must be clearly visible.

    "conspicuous position" is the term. If the disc must be "clearly visible", then if the holder lens was dirty and difficult to read, then that would be problem. But as the disc needs to be in a "conspicuous position (on nearside)" then the disc/holder itself could be dirty, etc, but if in such a "conspicuous position" and just about clean enough to see that is "carried in such a manner as to show at all times the date of expiry and the particulars set out at paragraph (b) of article 3 of these Regulations." then it might not be clearly visible (to some), but meet the requirements of the regulations because all it needs to do is "to show". A completely pointless argument on the face of it, but then if the traffic warden was Mr Magoo then it might be a valid one.

    Actually "clearly visible" is a (former, when they still had discs) British requirement. The regs over there said "the licence shall be so exhibited that all the particulars on the licence are clearly visible in daylight from the near side of the road.". There isn't that same requirement here and I would argue that the Irish legal wording allows considerable more wiggle room.


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    #40
    Max Headroom
    Registered Users Posts: 7,101 ✭✭✭Max Headroom


    kevboselecta wrote: »
    It was parked off in a corner of a car park, not on a path or in an allocated space, it was in a place were it wouldn't have affected anyone or anything.

    seems strange that he would go out of his way....maybe he thought it was stolen/abandoned....did they produce images of the bike..??


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    #41
    erica74
    Registered Users Posts: 2,619 ✭✭✭erica74


    ArrBee wrote: »
    I guess I am also breaking the law.
    I have an old one displayed and I store the new one each year at home.

    In my case, I can't be arsed buying the correct sized torx to undo the disc holder....
    All this information should be electronically available nowdays. Displaying a piece of paper is soooo last year. :P

    I pulled up to a checkpoint a couple of years ago and the garda went through all the checks. I knew the bike was all legit so I was shocked when he said "the tax is out". I said no and looked down at the holder and then I could see the tax disc sitting on the press at home. The garda was grand about the disc because the bike was taxed but left me sitting on the side of the road in lashing rain for no reason for 20 minutes:rolleyes:


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    #42
    peckerhead
    Registered Users Posts: 3,379 ✭✭✭peckerhead


    You could always try some variant of Joe Lycett's approach?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Gkiw7zpULo


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    #43
    Max Headroom
    Registered Users Posts: 7,101 ✭✭✭Max Headroom


    peckerhead wrote: »
    You could always try some variant of Joe Lycett's approach?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Gkiw7zpULo


    Love Joe....not in that way....:p


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    #44
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,761 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    macplaxton wrote: »

    You can't just display it anywhere! Have you read the regulations?

    It must be on the nearside AND in a conspicuous position.

    If someone has to look (hard) to find it, then it isn't in a "conspicuous position."[/SIZE]



    "conspicuous position" is the term. If the disc must be "clearly visible", then if the holder lens was dirty and difficult to read, then that would be problem. But as the disc needs to be in a "conspicuous position (on nearside)" then the disc/holder itself could be dirty, etc, but if in such a "conspicuous position" and just about clean enough to see that is "carried in such a manner as to show at all times the date of expiry and the particulars set out at paragraph (b) of article 3 of these Regulations." then it might not be clearly visible (to some), but meet the requirements of the regulations because all it needs to do is "to show". A completely pointless argument on the face of it, but then if the traffic warden was Mr Magoo then it might be a valid one.

    Actually "clearly visible" is a (former, when they still had discs) British requirement. The regs over there said "the licence shall be so exhibited that all the particulars on the licence are clearly visible in daylight from the near side of the road.". There isn't that same requirement here and I would argue that the Irish legal wording allows considerable more wiggle room.

    I can display it ANYWHERE on the nearside. Front, back or side of the bike. I can have it anywhere from 6" from the ground to the highest point - screen, top box, even a bloody ariel if I like. If it's observable, it's displayed. If you're not looking at where I put it, it's not inconspicuous, it's the warden that's failing to see it.

    And define 'hard' - if he's not a motorcyclist, nor is used to or knows where to look, the onus is on him to see it, not me to point it out. Displayed is displayed.

    I regularly challenge Galway LA on similar, and win more than I lose 4 out of 5 in the last 18 mths alone, so I don't go quietly into the night on stuff like this with them.

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



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    #45
    kevboselecta
    Registered Users Posts: 13 ✭kevboselecta


    Great news folks, got a letter today saying saying the fine has been cancelled...

    Happy days...

    Thanks for all the help and replies ðŸ˜


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    #46
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,761 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    kevboselecta wrote: »
    Great news folks, got a letter today saying saying the fine has been cancelled...

    Happy days...

    Thanks for all the help and replies ðŸ˜

    Most excellent !!

    457172.jpg

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



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    #47
    Max Headroom
    Registered Users Posts: 7,101 ✭✭✭Max Headroom


    kevboselecta wrote: »
    Great news folks, got a letter today saying saying the fine has been cancelled...

    Happy days...

    Thanks for all the help and replies ðŸ˜

    Any explination...:confused:


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    #48
    kevboselecta
    Registered Users Posts: 13 ✭kevboselecta


    None at all

    Fine_zps2xu6z0ng.jpg


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    #49
    Max Headroom
    Registered Users Posts: 7,101 ✭✭✭Max Headroom


    The lads in the office probably tore the pi$$ out of him........frame that.....:D


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