Donald Trump is the President Mark IV (Read Mod Warning in OP)

Corkblowin

Trump may well have gotten a large part of his support from wealthier voters, but he appealed to enough of the ‘monster truck NASCAR loving real people of middle America’ to get him (barely) over the line in those smaller states. It’s these people you see being interviewed at his rallies - not those benefiting from his tax cuts - which makes it appear he has a wider appeal than he does.

It’s all part of the act he’s putting on that he’s speaking for the average American- he’d be selling quack medicines a century ago.

once he’s made his money he’s out. If he’s as smart as he thinks he is he won’t go for reelection in 2020 and leave a buffer between his presidency & the inevitable crash that’s coming- caused by both his economic and environmental policies. Big corrections will be required in both areas which will cause pain to a lot of people.

Tom is being charitable - giving reasons rather than excuses for why people voted - I just worry how they’ll react once they realize they’re being conned. The charade can only be kept going for so long.

If he wasn’t in the White House I reckon he and his family would be in handcuffs soon - how it’s all going to play out is morbidly fascinating

Rhineshark

The best thing that could happen is that Trump screws the economy badly enough thst the impacts are felt while he is still in power. If he loses in 2020 and the crash that he set in line then happens, the GOP will pretend it was all down to his Dem successor and harken back to the glory giveaway days (that the giveaways were mostly to the wealthy will be elided over or lied about).

Water John

Tom you are incorrect. It doesn't matter whether the money to the ladies came from Trump or the campaign, it's the purpose. Were they paid to influence the election. The fact that they weren't paid for a couple of years and were suddenly paid in the run up to the election, is the proof.

everlast75

If you want to see the definition of lipservice in action, check out Jeff Flake's page.

The constant criticisms are laughable when you consider his complete, complicit support

https://twitter.com/JeffFlake?s=09

Christy42

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

TomOnBoard wrote: »

This is, I think, a crucial point...

I do agree that Trump mobilised a large swathe of disenfranchised, white people whose entire world had vanished.
A few points however.
You complain Clinton is a billionaire and that Trump is, wait, WTF? Trump's also a sodding billionaire.
You mention that people vote for him with open eyes, knowing that he's a spoofer.
That validates my point that Trump is a troll candidate.
He will not bring back the golden years of the 1950's and turn America into a 21st century version of The Brady Bunch.
You say we should not blame the voters, but him.
We have said throughout this entire thread that Trump is the symptom. Hateful as he is, he only exists because his voters specifically want him to exist.
He was in plain view all along, the comments about Mexicans, Muslims, women, etc... That was just deliberate stoking of hatred and resentment. People who hate minorities and think that women and gays had enough rights already and should disappear back under their rock and shut the fcuk up.
He doesn't give a single sh*t about his voters or anyone else besides himself.
He bankrupted three casinos, left others to pay the debt and made a killing on the whole thing.
Just in case that isn't clear enough.
He will bankrupt America, make an absolute fortune and the people will pay for it. For generations.
Anyone who still wholeheartedly supports him right now is not a deplorable, they are borderline traitors.

To be fair it is very much in dispute whether or not Trump is a billionaire. It seems to be largely his claims. His claims should be taken with a lot of salt.

I wonder how much tax payer money has gone to Maro Lago during his overly frequent holidays.

However he talks far more colloquially than his peers which helps endear him to many. Even as he is swiping their money or has screwed those people in the past with his multiple bankruptcies. He feels like one of them, like Casey, so they are willing to buy the fact a caravan of very slow moving people hundreds of miles away is an immediate threat.

Should have asked what people expected to be done about it after the election. It appears to suddenly be a non issue and forgotten about.

dr.fuzzenstein

Rhineshark wrote: »

The best thing that could happen is that Trump screws the economy badly enough thst the impacts are felt while he is still in power. If he loses in 2020 and the crash that he set in line then happens, the GOP will pretend it was all down to his Dem successor and harken back to the glory giveaway days (that the giveaways were mostly to the wealthy will be elided over or lied about).

Oh, Trump will screw the economy, no worries there.
In that we he is a classical Republican. Take over when times are good, stoke the fire, crash and burn and hand back over to the Democrats.
Democrats will have to put out the dumpster fire and introduce unpopular measures.
Just when things are picking up again, make a lot of crazy promises, hand out sweets to the voters, get elected, crash and burn and hand the train wreck back to the dems.
Rinse and repeat and don't forget to blame the dems and those damn liberals along the way.
Voters have a collective IQ of 50 and the memory of a goldfish.
You may think that after a hundred years they would have wised up to that old joke, but it never ceases to work.
Trump will fcuk America and the Dems will get the blame. And the voters will swallow it like the sheep they are.
Mark my words!

amandstu

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Oh, Trump will screw the economy, no worries there.
In that we he is a classical Republican. Take over when times are good, stoke the fire, crash and burn and hand back over to the Democrats.
Democrats will have to put out the dumpster fire and introduce unpopular measures.
Just when things are picking up again, make a lot of crazy promises, hand out sweets to the voters, get elected, crash and burn and hand the train wreck back to the dems.
Rinse and repeat and don't forget to blame the dems and those damn liberals along the way.
Voters have a collective IQ of 50 and the memory of a goldfish.
You may think that after a hundred years they would have wised up to that old joke, but it never ceases to work.
Trump will fcuk America and the Dems will get the blame. And the voters will swallow it like the sheep they are.
Mark my words!

I agree in this case**( the last crash was all Republican and Obama's administration was severely constrained by it as well as blatant partisanship over the his two terms).

But what can the Dems do so that a false picture is not painted that they caused the coming downturn (obvious in advance that Trump will blame then for lack of cooperation even if they do cooperate)?

**not commenting historically...

Itssoeasy

So in something that will come as a shock to nobody(outside of ardent trump supporters) is that when a part of the US is suffering a disaster which California is with the wildfires happening there, president trump as only he can, is blaming the state and people of the state for the fires and is also threatening to withhold money that it seems goes to the state to help fight these things.

I mean the guy is utterly uttterly tone deaf.

everlast75

Itssoeasy wrote: »

So in something that will come as a shock to nobody(outside of ardent trump supporters) is that when a part of the US is suffering a disaster which California is with the wildfires happening there, president trump as only he can, is blaming the state and people of the state for the fires and is also threatening to withhold money that it seems goes to the state to help fight these things.

I mean the guy is utterly uttterly tone deaf.

(At 3am)

Billy Mays

Didn't fancy a planned visit to a US military cememetery outside Paris today cos it's raining and has sent Kelly along instead

No doubt Fox News and republicans will be up in arms over this show of disrespect towards the armed forces :rolleyes:

everlast75

This is just plain weird...


https://twitter.com/ManInTheHoody/status/1061280383851945984?s=19

JohnFalstaff

everlast75 wrote: »

This is just plain weird...


https://twitter.com/ManInTheHoody/status/1061280383851945984?s=19

Apparently Fox are engaging in a protest due to Twitter's response to users who were posting Tucker Carlson's home address on the platform.

26000 Elephants

jobbridge4life wrote: »

They have never mattered with regard to Trump.

Personally I can't understand how the below video wasn't the end of Trump, how any individual could see this and decide this man believed with regard to *literally anything* is beyond me. Forget the comedy setting... just the absolute filth...

Its so hard to lampoon Trump, when your best effort turns into an homage to Monty Python. In this case, the Colin "Bomber" Harris one, where the wrestler fights himself.

("Colin has knocked himself out, and so is declared the winner!")

Larbre34

Billy Mays wrote: »

Didn't fancy a planned visit to a US military cememetery outside Paris today cos it's raining and has sent Kelly along instead

No doubt Fox News and republicans will be up in arms over this show of disrespect towards the armed forces :rolleyes:

What an ignorant, selfish, disrespectful son of a b1tch.

He's such a narcissist to his core its almost unbelievable.

Tell me how

Billy Mays wrote: »

Didn't fancy a planned visit to a US military cememetery outside Paris today cos it's raining and has sent Kelly along instead

No doubt Fox News and republicans will be up in arms over this show of disrespect towards the armed forces :rolleyes:

Larbre34 wrote: »

What an ignorant, selfish, disrespectful son of a b1tch.

He's such a narcissist to his core its almost unbelievable.

This is more than just an ignorant individual who happens to be president. What the last number of years have shown is the how truly divided American society is. Since Trump expressed an interest in running for President he has done and said so many things which are abhorrent to those who possess any sense of community with their fellow citizens.

If this was a film, we would be shown shots of Trump behind closed doors where he reveals his true identity. A hero who is trying to save America by showing just how messed up it is. Each day he intentionally does something worse and worse, something so blatantly motivated by selfishness and hate in an effort to break the trance of those that champion him so that they finally see what they have become. He might demean communities who are losing their homes and their lives in horrific wildfires, he might display utter disrespect for a female African American journalist who asks him a question, he might travel 5,000 miles to insult the memories of those who lost their lives in the great war on the 100 year anniversary of its ending by refusing to go out in a shower. In the film, that would be enough to communicate his despicable nature and to ignite the masses in to action. And he would be hated but he would have done a service for his country. But this isn't a film, he is no hero and he really did all of the above. In the space of just the last 24 hours.

If America was a machine, it would have been turned off and on again to try to reset it's operating system.

To me, what is so troubling about the state of America (and it's impact on Global politics) is that 40% of the people want it this way. 40% of the people in that country are happy with denying human impact on climate change, shutting the door on migrants who are so desperate they risk their lives to get help, insulting people with mental difficulties, treating women as sexual objects, lying in the face of the worlds media, allowing people to walk in public with assault weapons and placing the media as the enemy of the people.

There are always going to be some who are entirely selfish, ignorant and rude. But that such a person can find themselves at the head of their country should be a massive wake up call. And really, what we've seen since 2016 is that it isn't. And that, to me, is deeply worrying.

reece289

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_law_of_oligarchy
Iron law of oligarchy

The iron law of oligarchy is a political theory, first developed by the German sociologist Robert Michels in his 1911 book, Political Parties.[1] It asserts that rule by an elite, or oligarchy, is inevitable as an "iron law" within any democratic organization as part of the "tactical and technical necessities" of organization.[1]

Michels's theory states that all complex organizations, regardless of how democratic they are when started, eventually develop into oligarchies. Michels observed that since no sufficiently large and complex organization can function purely as a direct democracy, power within an organization will always get delegated to individuals within that group, elected or otherwise.

Using anecdotes from political parties and trade unions struggling to operate democratically to build his argument in 1911, Michels addressed the application of this law to representative democracy, and stated: "Who says organization, says oligarchy."[1] He went on to state that "Historical evolution mocks all the prophylactic measures that have been adopted for the prevention of oligarchy."[1]

According to Michels all organizations eventually come to be run by a "leadership class", who often function as paid administrators, executives, spokespersons or political strategists for the organization. Far from being "servants of the masses", Michels argues this "leadership class," rather than the organization's membership, will inevitably grow to dominate the organization's power structures. By controlling who has access to information, those in power can centralize their power successfully, often with little accountability, due to the apathy, indifference and non-participation most rank-and-file members have in relation to their organization's decision-making processes. Michels argues that democratic attempts to hold leadership positions accountable are prone to fail, since with power comes the ability to reward loyalty, the ability to control information about the organization, and the ability to control what procedures the organization follows when making decisions. All of these mechanisms can be used to strongly influence the outcome of any decisions made 'democratically' by members.[2]

Michels stated that the official goal of representative democracy of eliminating elite rule was impossible, that representative democracy is a façade legitimizing the rule of a particular elite, and that elite rule, which he refers to as oligarchy, is inevitable.[1] Later Michels migrated to Italy and joined Benito Mussolini's Fascist Party, as he believed this was the next legitimate step of modern societies. The thesis became popular once more in post-war America with the publication of Union Democracy: The Internal Politics of the International Typographical Union (1956) and during the red scare brought about by McCarthyism.

Rhineshark

Itssoeasy wrote: »

So in something that will come as a shock to nobody(outside of ardent trump supporters) is that when a part of the US is suffering a disaster which California is with the wildfires happening there, president trump as only he can, is blaming the state and people of the state for the fires and is also threatening to withhold money that it seems goes to the state to help fight these things.

I mean the guy is utterly uttterly tone deaf.

The specifics of that accusation are even more surreal. California is directly responsible for about 2-3% of its forest. The other 97-8% is federally managed. And it will come as a surprise to no-one that the admin has been cutting funds to something with Forest in the name.

PropJoe10

Larbre34 wrote: »

What an ignorant, selfish, disrespectful son of a b1tch.

He's such a narcissist to his core its almost unbelievable.

Good thing that the Allied forces in the trenches in 1918 weren't put off by a little bad weather, that's for sure. He just truly doesn't give a sh!t about anyone or anything but himself.

Itssoeasy

https://twitter.com/axlrose/status/1061437858878230528
I never ever thought I'd be linking a tweet from Axl Rose in a Donald Trump thread buy seeing as Axl is a resident of Malibu, California and Axl Rose states what others have said which the president said to be false.

alchemist33

The people of Puerto Rico won't be a bit surprised. The simple fact about Trump, and those further right these days, is they only care about people they can identify with, whether that's class, colour or political outlook. California has been deemed "other", so Californians may as well be living in Mozambique as far as Trump is concerned.

Suckler

Billy Mays wrote: »

Didn't fancy a planned visit to a US military cememetery outside Paris today cos it's raining and has sent Kelly along instead

No doubt Fox News and republicans will be up in arms over this show of disrespect towards the armed forces :rolleyes:

Imagine the vitriol spewing from trump and his ilk if Obama had done this....

everlast75

Billy Mays wrote: »

Didn't fancy a planned visit to a US military cememetery outside Paris today cos it's raining and has sent Kelly along instead

No doubt Fox News and republicans will be up in arms over this show of disrespect towards the armed forces :rolleyes:

Will Manic now admit Trump doesn't give a sh1t about the military?

listermint

everlast75 wrote: »

Will Manic now admit Trump doesn't give a sh1t about the military?

No, he did something for the vets association once and low taxes.

Also trump seems to hate Californians I think because Hollywood is there.

Billy Mays

Donald prefers soldiers who didn't get killed in the trenches

prawnsambo

Rhineshark wrote: »

The specifics of that accusation are even more surreal. California is directly responsible for about 2-3% of its forest. The other 97-8% is federally managed. And it will come as a surprise to no-one that the admin has been cutting funds to something with Forest in the name.

It isn't even forests that are the seat of the fires. It's wild brush that's grown during the rainy season and then dries out to tinder during the drought in the summer season that gets set alight and run rampant when the Santa Ana winds hit. All it takes is a spark and/or an idiot who thinks it would be fun to set a fire, which is depressingly true some of the time.

Igotadose

Rhineshark wrote: »

The specifics of that accusation are even more surreal. California is directly responsible for about 2-3% of its forest. The other 97-8% is federally managed. And it will come as a surprise to no-one that the admin has been cutting funds to something with Forest in the name.

Hmm.. Forestry service is under the Dept. of Agriculture. Thought Trump'd be able to use this to accept Zinke's resignation. Dept. of Ag's getting some grief from farmers due to Trump's trade war, but I think the Sec. of Ag is one of the few not completely venally corrupt members of the cabinet and hasn't been named or hinted about in investigations/ethics conflicts/etc. like the bulk of the Cabinet.

Hurrache

The fire in LA and Ventura county are not forest fires anyway, and unrelated to forestry management. I used to live about a kilometre outside the current evacuation zone.

https://twitter.com/PFA809/status/1061307981638193152?s=19

devnull

Trump's conduct around this whole remembrance weekend has been deplorable, making excuses about weather, turning up late for events, this morning turning up late shortly followed by Putin (I wonder why)

He shows no respect whatsoever towards the people who fought in the war.

relax carry on

devnull wrote: »

Trump's conduct around this whole remembrance weekend has been deplorable, making excuses about weather, turning up late for events, this morning turning up late shortly followed by Putin (I wonder why)

He shows no respect whatsoever towards the people who fought in the war.

He shows no respect anything or anyone. After 2 years of his insanity how can anyone be surprised about his behaviour? It's almost pointless commenting on it as it's become the new normal. Confronting him about his behaviour or pulling him up in his endless stream of lies is pointless. He doesn't see the world as most functioning adults see it. The world is filtered through Trump-O-Vision to allow him to continue on his merry way utterly unaffected by his actions. Nothing anyone does will ever change it. Even if he is somehow brought to account for his actions I doubt his worldview will allow him to understand his own role in his downfall. It will always be someone else's fault.
The conversation to have though at this point should be around his enablers. Trump is only where he is thanks to his enablers whether that is his die hard supporters who have their own version of Trump-O-Vision going on or those who know what he is but don't care as it supports whatever their aims are. Who knows what the longterm consequences of their support will be.

Christy42

devnull wrote: »

Trump's conduct around this whole remembrance weekend has been deplorable, making excuses about weather, turning up late for events, this morning turning up late shortly followed by Putin (I wonder why)

He shows no respect whatsoever towards the people who fought in the war.

I am shocked that a man who insulted veterans who were captured fighting for their country showed disrespect to the military.

This is not a shock. Par for the course. The pro military right wing will happily over look this as he is not a Democrat.