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Donald Trump is the President Mark IV (Read Mod Warning in OP)
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ancapailldorcha wrote: »T
Merrick Garland was blocked simply because Obama nominated him. While the allegations against Kavanaugh have yet to be proven, his partisanship alone makes him unfit for office. Why some people are glad that he has been appointed when there was a plethora of alternatives for Trump to choose from is beyond me. Then again, some people seem to have subscribed to an intensely hateful ideology and were simply cheering for this simply out of spite for those they perceive to be Liberals and/or Democrats.
This is something I've picked up on recently in conversations with Americans. I knew that they were polarized, what I hadn't appreciated was the hatred the Reps and Dems seem to have developed for each other in the last few years - it's really toxic.
If Kavanaugh is partisan, then a lot of Republicans will be happy about that, because to them being partisan and pro-Republican is good, while being non-partisan is just collaborating with the enemy. It's similar with some Democrats, who see the Republicans as evil incarnate (although this is a view I can sympathise with).
Americans have lost faith in their democratic system: it's a fight to the death against the other side, and there's no room for nice guys, ethics, standards in public office or any of that nonsense.
Some of the posters on here seem to have the same mindset - it's Trump right or wrong, because to them this is really is a war against the other side.0 -
Very good read here on the comparisons between now and the interwar period. It explains the Judicial nominations procedures from the perspective of a rise in authoritarianism in the Republican party, similar to what was seen in interwar Germany. Really worth reading the whole article.
McConnell as gravedigger of US democracy.If the US has someone whom historians will look back on as the gravedigger of American democracy, it is Mitch McConnell. He stoked the hyperpolarization of American politics to make the Obama presidency as dysfunctional and paralyzed as he possibly could. As with parliamentary gridlock in Weimar, congressional gridlock in the US has diminished respect for democratic norms, allowing McConnell to trample them even more. Nowhere is this vicious circle clearer than in the obliteration of traditional precedents concerning judicial appointments. Systematic obstruction of nominations in Obama’s first term provoked Democrats to scrap the filibuster for all but Supreme Court nominations. Then McConnell’s unprecedented blocking of the Merrick Garland nomination required him in turn to scrap the filibuster for Supreme Court nominations in order to complete the “steal” of Antonin Scalia’s seat and confirm Neil Gorsuch. The extreme politicization of the judicial nomination process is once again on display in the current Kavanaugh hearings.
One can predict that henceforth no significant judicial appointments will be made when the presidency and the Senate are not controlled by the same party. McConnell and our dysfunctional and disrespected Congress have now ensured an increasingly dysfunctional and disrespected judiciary, and the constitutional balance of powers among the three branches of government is in peril.
https://www.nybooks.com/articles/2018/10/25/suffocation-of-democracy/0 -
ancapailldorcha wrote: »To be honest, it seems to be that Kavanaugh is nowhere near fit to occupy the office he now holds. If the GOP had even a shred of principle or even respect for the small government ideology that the party of Reagan was committed to, Kavanaugh would not be serving as a supreme court justice.
Merrick Garland was blocked simply because Obama nominated him. While the allegations against Kavanaugh have yet to be proven, his partisanship alone makes him unfit for office. Why some people are glad that he has been appointed when there was a plethora of alternatives for Trump to choose from is beyond me. Then again, some people seem to have subscribed to an intensely hateful ideology and were simply cheering for this simply out of spite for those they perceive to be Liberals and/or Democrats.
The alt-right or reactionary right is based on nothing other than trolling those they don't like.
Its only aim is to rile up and "trigger" its opponents as much as possible by doing really ****ty, spiteful, hateful things. So obviously Trump is the perfect president for the reactionary right when you consider it in these terms.
The reactionary right is a total intellectual void. But it has completely captured the Republican party. It has also captured, to varying degrees, mainstream right-wing parties, certainly across the English-speaking world, and in Europe and elsewhere.
It has done this through making politics about culture - about vilifying minorities and making the formerly dominant majority groups in society feel "under siege". And it's entirely bogus.
It's the politics of a six year old boy knocking his five year old sister's ice cream out of her hand, purely for spite.
Republican "issues" are not legitimate issues.
Defending racism is not a legitimate "issue".
Defending misogynism is not a legitimate "issue".
Defending sexual assault is not a legitimate issue.
Pissing all over the rights of gay and transgender people is not a legitimate issue.
Science denial is not a legitimate issue.
Including creationist nonsense on school curriculums is not a legitimate issue.
Defending the right of people to own automatic weapons is not a legitimate issue.
Clamping down on free press is not a legitimate issue.
Defending foreign interference in US elections is not a legitimate issue.
Repeat ad nauseum.
Then there are the other bog standard Republican issues like their long-discredited trickle down economic policies which merely increase inequality and are setting the scene for another crash. Their attacks on labour laws. Their continual denial of proper healthcare. Their insane anti-abortion crusade.
Again, repeat ad nauseum.
The Republican party is a complete cesspit of all that is worst in humanity and has been for decades.
There are no "both sides". There is no "equivalence". Not remotely. The reactionary right, as symbolised by Trump, Brexit, Putin, Le Pen, Salvini, AFD, Duterte, Bolsonaro etc. are nihilists and a serious danger to the world.0 -
And that there sums up the entire episode.
It was never about whether Ford was telling the truth, whether Kavanaugh was right or not. The GOP, and Trump were up against it in terms if timeline. There is the possibility, small but there, that they may lose the majority in the Senate in November and as such they couldn't risk not getting this through now. And if they lost the house, Trump would need the SCOTUS to be in his favour to help avoid impeachment.
The rights/truth then didn't matter. It became a game of timings. The DNC played it well, as letting the info out earlier would have allowed the GOP to simply swap Kav with another one with hardly any impact. The DNC might have lost, the numbers said they were always likely to, but the damge has been done.
That is why you are hearing this nonsense about riling up the GOP base to get out and vote. There is no objective basis for that claim, but make it anyway to try to make it look like all of this wasn't the sh1tshow it actually was.
It was never about ford or kavanaugh . The foundation of this entire thing is that the GOP were always going to elect a supreme court justice from their side before november . If the dems cared about women or sexual assault alegations or anything like that then they would not have waited, they tried to play the game to delay it to november and hopefully not have another trump pick, regardless of how that was achieved. The GOP wanted their pick regardless of what they had to put up with or what type of person they were.
People are fully entitled to think kavanaugh is unsuitable and not want him in there , but what im not hearing at all from those people is condemnation for the timing on the democrat side or a suggestion of what right leaning republican would have been acceptable for the supreme court , at the end of the day I can't think of anyone except Kavanugh who could have gotten through.
The republicans not nominating and apointing before november was realistically never on the table.0 -
Eric Cartman wrote: »...at the end of the day I can't think of anyone except Kavanugh who could have gotten through.
Oh, come on. Who on the list of 25 possible candidates was a worse option than Kavanaugh, and why?
By the way, do you believe that every word of Kavanaugh's testimony was truthful?0 -
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oscarBravo wrote: »Oh, come on. Who on the list of 25 possible candidates was a worse option than Kavanaugh, and why?
By the way, do you believe that every word of Kavanaugh's testimony was truthful?
Before the ford 'leak' he was a 25 year upstanding veteran of the bar, the ABA gave a glowing reference, he was the frontrunner. The alegations threw that into question but by that point it was too late to switch candidates and guarantee they got through. If the time was available i'd agree that kavanaugh had dropped down the leauge table but the GOP were backed against a wall to get somebody in before the election.
I can see why he may have perjured himself in relation to the drinking but I do believe he was pretty consistent and honest with regards to him and the aleged incidents of that night with Dr. Ford. I think her claims of how it has impacted her over the last 30 years and her lack of memory of place/time/how she got there or home etc.. makes her statement shakey.0 -
New York Times had a big investigation into Trumps tax affairs. Tax evasion and outright fraud. Would normally be a big scandal with a regular president but hardly made a blip on the trumptrain's constant wtf newscycle. Makes me think this is why there is constant stories from the Whitehouse, to make people so tired of it they just give up.0
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hill16bhoy wrote: »The alt-right or reactionary right is based on nothing other than trolling those they don't like.
Its only aim is to rile up and "trigger" its opponents as much as possible by doing really ****ty, spiteful, hateful things. So obviously Trump is the perfect president for the reactionary right when you consider it in these terms.....
......
There are no "both sides". There is no "equivalence". Not remotely. The reactionary right, as symbolised by Trump, Brexit, Putin, Le Pen, Salvini, AFD, Duterte, Bolsonaro etc. are nihilists and a serious danger to the world.
I agree with all of what you say.
That said it is worth looking at where the ideas of the likes of Bannon might come from and how they are organised.
Bannon believes in a type of traditionalism that was epoused by Julius Evola in the interwar period.
Alexandr Dugin also takes this view of traditionalism which he calls Eurasianism. Dugin calls his philosophy the 'fourth Political theory'. (He doesnt have the balls to call it fascism.)
This view ties in with the then churches view of Government being as local as possible (controllable). This sits perfectly with small government US conservatives.
This polarised world of powers (as pre 1914) sits well with Russia. It is best to look at the far right rise as an international interconnected movement with Russia being the main player. Russia for example funds/supports almost all EU sceptic parties in the EU including UKIP.
There is no place for the EU in this future. These guys want big powers dominating world trade with bilateral deals.
When Mogg says Brexit will work after 50 years he surely means when the EU is no more. HIs talk of Ireland rejoining the UK should be taken seriously.
His like would see Ireland as natural territory for a power like Britain in a world of de facto rule by conquest.
The main US players are the Mercers and their man 'Bannon'. The right has been rising for a few decades but the acceleration was not organic.
Climate change which requires global coordination and a reduction in consumption of fossil fuels (capitalism) must be denied. This brings the fossil fuel capitalists and those who need fossil fuel energy along as does dodgy Russian money poisoning the global financial system.
Behind this movement we have the Russian State Information/hybrid war apparatus with the US colonel Robert Mercer and his propaganda machine.
Some of the hate poured out to convince the masses is nonsense. It is horrible racist tripe.
But winning arguments won't stop it coming. That is because the head/s need to be killed.
Today the planet was given a 12 year warning. We cannot survive on capitalism. The fight is not between neoliberalism and Trumpism.
It is between sustainable democracy and Trumpism.
Severe blows have been dealt to our side with the damage inflicted to the US by Trump and this week by poisoning the Supreme Court.
A light needs to be shone on dirty Russian money, hidden money etc. Putin needs to be removed, as does the Trump regime. Brexit alas, needs to be stopped.
Historical times, and its not a good thing.0 -
Eric Cartman wrote: »Before the ford 'leak' he was a 25 year upstanding veteran of the bar, the ABA gave a glowing reference, he was the frontrunner. The alegations threw that into question but by that point it was too late to switch candidates and guarantee they got through. If the time was available i'd agree that kavanaugh had dropped down the leauge table but the GOP were backed against a wall to get somebody in before the election.
I can see why he may have perjured himself in relation to the drinking but I do believe he was pretty consistent and honest with regards to him and the aleged incidents of that night with Dr. Ford. I think her claims of how it has impacted her over the last 30 years and her lack of memory of place/time/how she got there or home etc.. makes her statement shakey.
Sorry, but I find that to be completely unacceptable. There is no reason why a judge of such high esteem and qualifications, in a hearing to determine his suitability for a lifetime appointment to the Supreme Court of the US, should ever commit perjury, not to mention about something which isn't even illegal. He could have said he drank like an alcoholic fish, it still wouldn't have been proof he was guilty of assault. Instead, he lied under oath in a hearing to determine his suitability to help shape the laws of the country for decades to come. That is in no way acceptable.0 -
Sorry, but I find that to be completely unacceptable. There is no reason why a judge of such high esteem and qualifications, in a hearing to determine his suitability for a lifetime appointment to the Supreme Court of the US, should ever commit perjury, not to mention about something which isn't even illegal. He could have said he drank like an alcoholic fish, it still wouldn't have been proof he was guilty of assault. Instead, he lied under oath in a hearing to determine his suitability to help shape the laws of the country for decades to come. That is in no way acceptable.
All Cartman is saying is that he understands why someone might perjure themselves in order to create reasonable doubt. I think we all understand. Because he did something wrong.0 -
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Just as a further rebuke against the 'fame' angle insinuated, Ford still hasn't returned home because of the sheer number of death threats made against her & her family.
You'd want to be super naive to think that the Democrats didn't strategise the use of Ford's testimony - and as Leroy42 mentions were it not for the midterms on the horizon there's a chance the nomination might have stalled - but in terms of the woman herself it's fair to say Ford coming forward has effectively ruined both her personal and professional life. God knows how her family's doing; pointing at some gofundme as a Silver Bullet is both disingenuous and wilfully dismissive of the emotional, demonstrable cost.
https://twitter.com/KasieDC/status/1049081044878708736
But this is what I don't get, Sen. Feinstein seems to have really screwed over Ford but nobody cares because delaying and having her testify was politically useful for the Democrats and even on an Irish site like this its all so intensely partisan.0 -
They didn't have to get anyone in before the election.Eric Cartman wrote: »...the GOP were backed against a wall to get somebody in before the election.
I understand why they wanted someone in before the election, but - apparently unlike you - I don't think it's acceptable that they bulldozed through the confirmation of a candidate who demonstrated total unfitness for the office just for political expediency.I can see why he may have perjured himself...
But you're OK with the fact that he's now on the Supreme Court. The mind boggles.0 -
Did Ford not request that her name be kept private initially tying Feinstein's hands?RDM_83 again wrote: »Just as a further rebuke against the 'fame' angle insinuated, Ford still hasn't returned home because of the sheer number of death threats made against her & her family.
You'd want to be super naive to think that the Democrats didn't strategise the use of Ford's testimony - and as Leroy42 mentions were it not for the midterms on the horizon there's a chance the nomination might have stalled - but in terms of the woman herself it's fair to say Ford coming forward has effectively ruined both her personal and professional life. God knows how her family's doing; pointing at some gofundme as a Silver Bullet is both disingenuous and wilfully dismissive of the emotional, demonstrable cost.
https://twitter.com/KasieDC/status/1049081044878708736
But this is what I don't get, Sen. Feinstein seems to have really screwed over Ford but nobody cares because delaying and having her testify was politically useful for the Democrats and even on an Irish site like this its all so intensely partisan.0 -
The thing that keeps coming up is that because Kavanaugh apparently worked all his life towards being on the Supreme court bench, that in some way, he's entitled to it for all his hard work, like it's his turn, so depriving him of this role because he publically showed himself to be incapable of retaining any level of rationality and impartiality when under pressure or stress would be terribly unfair.
Just imagine if the whole thing was really a set-up specifically designed to test his ability to function under stress - even if the situation had been 100% fictional, he failed abjectly, he failed miserably to show any of the characteristics or strengths required for such a hugely important role.
Supreme court justice is not a 'meet the minimum requirements' role - it's supposed to be for the Best of the Best - If Kavanaugh is the best of the best, then god help the US.0 -
RDM_83 again wrote: »But this is what I don't get, Sen. Feinstein seems to have really screwed over Ford but nobody cares because delaying and having her testify was politically useful for the Democrats and even on an Irish site like this its all so intensely partisan.
Oh, believe me we care. For all Kavanaugh's "wah wah wah I'm the latest in a long line of privileged white victims" cant, Ford is the one whose life was destroyed by all of this.
But as unimpressed as I may be with Feinstein's handling of the allegations, at least I'm not publicly expressing support for the man Ford credibly accused of sexually assaulting her, and saying how it's fine that an unhinged partisan perjurer is now a Supreme Court justice.0 -
RDM_83 again wrote: »But this is what I don't get, Sen. Feinstein seems to have really screwed over Ford but nobody cares because delaying and having her testify was politically useful for the Democrats and even on an Irish site like this its all so intensely partisan.
This, Everyone is still up in arms about the internet trolls wishing death on her (yet none of the same sympathy for kavanaugh and family) yet nobody else calling out that the democrats used her as a pawn as a 0 day solution to try get a seat left open till november, that didnt happen so they dont care anymore, ford doesnt care anymore.0 -
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RDM_83 again wrote: »But this is what I don't get, Sen. Feinstein seems to have really screwed over Ford but nobody cares because delaying and having her testify was politically useful for the Democrats and even on an Irish site like this its all so intensely partisan.
Ah come one: it doesn't come up because in the grander scheme of the whole sorry affair, it was small potatoes. Anyway, IIRC Feinstein was asked by Ford that she remain anonymous in the first place. Of course the Democrats play was political, but don't throw around accusations of partisanship because in a big storm of sh*tty behaviour we're not excoriating the minor player.0 -
oscarBravo wrote: »Oh, believe me we care. For all Kavanaugh's "wah wah wah I'm the latest in a long line of privileged white victims" cant, Ford is the one whose life was destroyed by all of this.
But as unimpressed as I may be with Feinstein's handling of the allegations, at least I'm not publicly expressing support for the man Ford credibly accused of sexually assaulting her, and saying how it's fine that an unhinged partisan perjurer is now a Supreme Court justice.
"Privileged white victims" ohh come off it, do you really believe that kind of internet far left hogwash ? , gender and race have nothing to do with this at all in any way.0 -
Did Ford not request that her name be kept private initially tying Feinstein's hands?
They could have ran a confidential FBI investigation or a senate house investigation if they hadn't sat on her accounts without delaying nominations if they hadn't sat on her accounts.
From the proceedings
CRUZ: Mr. Chairman, could I ask the chairman a question? Which is does the committee have a process, if there is an allegation against any nominee, to assess that allegation in a confidential forum rather than in the public — since Dr. Ford requested that it be kept confidential, is there a process for the committee for considering confidential allegations?
GRASSLEY: Yes. Yes it’s — and the answer is yes, and I sent — Senator Tillis pointed out the document that I put out to show of all the things that we’ve done along the lines of your question.
CRUZ: And Mr. Chairman, what would you have done if, on July 30th, the ranking member had — had raised this allegation with you? As the chairman of this committee, how would you have handled that (ph)?
GRASSLEY: We would have done like we have done with every background — or, let’s say FBI report that comes from the White House with a nominee, and then subsequent to that, because maybe the FBI got done with it three months ago, we do through the FBI or information comes to us, then we have our investigators, in a bipartisan way, both the Republicans and the Democrats, follow up on those — whatever those questions are or those problems that have to be worked out.
CRUZ: So bipartisan investigators could have investigated this two months ago and it could have been heard in a confidential setting without Dr. Ford’s name or Judge Kavanaugh’s name being dragged through the mud. Is that correct?
GRASSLEY: And except — and except for one or two conversations that we had with the judge through our investigators, Democrats didn’t participate except in those two, but in those two — or, one or two, they didn’t ask any questions.
Now I am sure this will be ignored or hand waved away but it would seem Feinstein was willing to sacrifice Ford.
Also the moderation of this thread is absolute ****e , I thought this was meant to be the high quality forum0 -
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Eric Cartman wrote: »This, Everyone is still up in arms about the internet trolls wishing death on her (yet none of the same sympathy for kavanaugh and family) yet nobody else calling out that the democrats used her as a pawn as a 0 day solution to try get a seat left open till november, that didnt happen so they dont care anymore, ford doesnt care anymore.
I wasn't aware it was easy to differentiate between real death threats and fake ones? Why is it when the subject of death threats come up, there are always some who just glibly dismiss them as 'trolls' or nothing to worry about. You can't not take threats seriously.
Again though, why are the Democrats' dirty tricks the focus here? You want us to condemn them? Sure:
The Democrats were cynical manipulator who used a standard '11th hour' surprise tactic to change the agenda. They suck, as does any other - IE, every other - party who does this.
But that's not the story here, and is just bad-faith burying of the lede for the sake of 'both sides' parity to claim otherwise.0 -
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I agree with all of what you say.
That said it is worth looking at where the ideas of the likes of Bannon might come from and how they are organised.
Bannon believes in a type of traditionalism that was epoused by Julius Evola in the interwar period.
Alexandr Dugin also takes this view of traditionalism which he calls Eurasianism. Dugin calls his philosophy the 'fourth Political theory'. (He doesnt have the balls to call it fascism.)
This view ties in with the then churches view of Government being as local as possible (controllable). This sits perfectly with small government US conservatives.
This polarised world of powers (as pre 1914) sits well with Russia. It is best to look at the far right rise as an international interconnected movement with Russia being the main player. Russia for example funds/supports almost all EU sceptic parties in the EU including UKIP.
There is no place for the EU in this future. These guys want big powers dominating world trade with bilateral deals.
When Mogg says Brexit will work after 50 years he surely means when the EU is no more. HIs talk of Ireland rejoining the UK should be taken seriously.
His like would see Ireland as natural territory for a power like Britain in a world of de facto rule by conquest.
The main US players are the Mercers and their man 'Bannon'. The right has been rising for a few decades but the acceleration was not organic.
Climate change which requires global coordination and a reduction in consumption of fossil fuels (capitalism) must be denied. This brings the fossil fuel capitalists and those who need fossil fuel energy along as does dodgy Russian money poisoning the global financial system.
Behind this movement we have the Russian State Information/hybrid war apparatus with the US colonel Robert Mercer and his propaganda machine.
Some of the hate poured out to convince the masses is nonsense. It is horrible racist tripe.
But winning arguments won't stop it coming. That is because the head/s need to be killed.
Today the planet was given a 12 year warning. We cannot survive on capitalism. The fight is not between neoliberalism and Trumpism.
It is between sustainable democracy and Trumpism.
Severe blows have been dealt to our side with the damage inflicted to the US by Trump and this week by poisoning the Supreme Court.
A light needs to be shone on dirty Russian money, hidden money etc. Putin needs to be removed, as does the Trump regime. Brexit alas, needs to be stopped.
Historical times, and its not a good thing.
Unfortunately, too many people take liberal democracy for granted. And it seems to me that there's a very naive belief among too many people involved in this fight on the reality based side, in the power of historical inevitability, that truth will always win out in the end. There is no such a thing as historical inevitability.
The reactionary right are deadly serious about this fight - they are vicious, and they are organised - way more organised - than believers in liberal democracy, of whatever hue.
Liberal democracy is being caught completely cold and doesn't know how to respond. The rectionary right is using the very tools of liberal democracy to undermine it. They have undermined the media by trying to discredit it and offering their own fake "alternative" media. However the "reputable" media unwittingly plays along too, and cannot avoid it. They've hijacked the judiciary, and they've hijacked democratic elections themselves. Already, democratic norms in many places around the world have regressed massively in a rightwards direction.
And because this approach is multi-pronged and undermines these liberal democratic institutions from within, it has become incredibly difficult to mount a concerted and effective response.
To me the next step for the reactionary right will be to try and undermine the EU from within. They already have several governments in place who will only be too happy to do this - Italy, Poland, Hungary, the Czech Republic etc. And because people tend to vote in lower numbers in European elections, they could make serious gains there and get their own "Manchurian Candidate" installed as head of the EU Commission.
If this inertia among liberal democrats persists, the only inevitability is that the reactionary right will change the world in their favour in a frightening way.
What is happening is a giant thought experiment to show how repeating what happened in the 1930s can not only happen in the age of the internet, it's actually easier to pull off.
People have got to wake the hell up. At the moment the fear is that only when the US and worldwide reactionary right discredits itself in such a spectacular way that it is permanently and irrevocably damaged for the natural lifespan of every person who has lived through it, will its popularity decline. In the 1940s, it took all out war and total catastrophe to discredit it.0 -
I wasn't aware it was easy to differentiate between real death threats and fake ones? Why is it when the subject of death threats come up, there are always some who just glibly dismiss them as 'trolls' or nothing to worry about. You can't not take threats seriously.
Again though, why are the Democrats' dirty tricks the focus here? You want us to condemn them? Sure:
The Democrats were cynical manipulator who used a standard '11th hour' surprise tactic to change the agenda. They suck, as does any other - IE, every other - party who does this.
But that's not the story here, and is just bad-faith burying of the lede for the sake of 'both sides' parity to claim otherwise.
the death threats on both sides have an equal chance of being real. Luckily for Kavanaugh making death threats against a Supreme Court justice is a much bigger deal, Ford sadly will have no security which the Dems really should be sorting for her.
I would like them condemned, far too much of that not happening, If you didn't want Kavanaugh you should be even more angry with them , the timing the dems chose meant that he couldn't be swapped out.
Yet again, a right leaning republican picked judge was always going to be nominated and appointed before the mid terms, there has never and was never a way to avoid this. Instead of living in some sort of fantasy world where this wasn't the case it would have been much better for democracy if the democrats leaked the allegations earlier to have the candidate swapped.0 -
Frat houses in the US tend to be infamous in terms of sexual assaults and cover ups and just an all round messed up attitude towards women, Kavanaugh's one had such infamy before any news of this broke.Eric Cartman wrote: »Firstly : considering trump, moore, the metoo movement, etc... Any PR company worthnits salt would absolutely have a defense against sexual assault etc.. built up from the get go, its the first place the media and opposition go digging these days. Any campaign manager should have grilled kavanaugh day one on this and started making that list.
Secondly : Do I believe donald trump sexually assaulted women - no. I dont think there has been any claim with enough muster for me.
Thirdly : You cannot compare a high school groping allegation and drinking in college and alegations of frat house events to somebody like weinstein with a systematic entire adult life history of actually raping women , even calling it a rapists charter is putting down an implication that has no basis in reality. You cannot compare Kavanaugh to anyone who is alleged to have forcibly penetrated their victim, its on a complete other scale. And throwing Savile in there, come on , there are no allegations even remotely close to what that predatory paedophile did,
Let me ask you this, considering the timeline of events , from the day the dems leaked Dr. Fords allegations to a week before the november election, how were the GOP supposed to switch candidates and get support and get them sworn in, who else on the more right side of republicanism would have been a clean suitable candidate.0 -
Frat houses in the US tend to be infamous in terms of sexual assaults and cover ups and just an all round messed up attitude towards women, Kavanaugh's one had such infamy before any news of this broke.
US frat house culture has always been toxic , I'm glad it never really made its way into 'acceptable society' here and its being fought against in the US now, but as europeans who never really got it it looks pretty deplorable to us, even referencing 30 years ago, in the US most people in their 30's would have found it perfectly acceptable in college to carry on that way, however him being a member of a frat house does not guarantee he participated in this. Frat house culture in the 70s is not whats on trial here.0 -
RDM_83 again wrote: »But this is what I don't get, Sen. Feinstein seems to have really screwed over Ford but nobody cares because delaying and having her testify was politically useful for the Democrats and even on an Irish site like this its all so intensely partisan.
While it's reasonable to accuse Feinstein of political timing, there's no justification for claim she screwed over Ford. She wasn't the one who leaked her information. She wasn't the one who decided the original confirmation timeline had to be kept, she wasn't the one who chose how the matter was investigated, she didn't insult Ford to crowds of people or call her a liar and she certainly didn't issue the death threats.Eric Cartman wrote: »This, Everyone is still up in arms about the internet trolls wishing death on her (yet none of the same sympathy for kavanaugh and family) yet nobody else calling out that the democrats used her as a pawn as a 0 day solution to try get a seat left open till november, that didnt happen so they dont care anymore, ford doesnt care anymore.
First of all, death threats and public shaming is worse than playing politics.
Second, while it's perfectly reasonable to accuse Feinstein of playing politics, it's certainly not the only reason for her to release the info when she did. All you have to do is look at the response to it to see why she wanted to hold off. GOP went straight to damage control and Ford's life was upended. You're suggesting it would have been better if it had happened sooner? How would it have been better?Eric Cartman wrote: »the death threats on both sides have an equal chance of being real. Luckily for Kavanaugh making death threats against a Supreme Court justice is a much bigger deal, Ford sadly will have no security which the Dems really should be sorting for her.
I would like them condemned, far too much of that not happening, If you didn't want Kavanaugh you should be even more angry with them , the timing the dems chose meant that he couldn't be swapped out.
Yet again, a right leaning republican picked judge was always going to be nominated and appointed before the mid terms, there has never and was never a way to avoid this. Instead of living in some sort of fantasy world where this wasn't the case it would have been much better for democracy if the democrats leaked the allegations earlier to have the candidate swapped.
Why should the dems be responsible for protecting a state witness?0 -
Captain Obvious wrote: »Why should the dems be responsible for protecting a state witness?
Because they chose to put her on a public pedestal instead of doing it in a bi-partisan private way which was available to them at the time, they made her the target of abuse, they should protect her from that abuse.0 -
Eric Cartman wrote: »Because they chose to put her on a public pedestal instead of doing it in a bi-partisan private way which was available to them at the time, they made her the target of abuse, they should protect her from that abuse.
They didn't choose to put her on a public pedestal. They didn't reveal her identity or demand she give testimony straight away.0 -
Captain Obvious wrote: »They didn't choose to put her on a public pedestal. They didn't reveal her identity or demand she give testimony straight away.
Yes, they did. I didn't think that was up for debate.0 -
Shockingly I don't believe it and the evidence does not make it seem likely either.RDM_83 again wrote: »Did Ford not request that her name be kept private initially tying Feinstein's hands?
They could have ran a confidential FBI investigation or a senate house investigation if they hadn't sat on her accounts without delaying nominations if they hadn't sat on her accounts.
From the proceedings
CRUZ: Mr. Chairman, could I ask the chairman a question? Which is does the committee have a process, if there is an allegation against any nominee, to assess that allegation in a confidential forum rather than in the public — since Dr. Ford requested that it be kept confidential, is there a process for the committee for considering confidential allegations?
GRASSLEY: Yes. Yes it’s — and the answer is yes, and I sent — Senator Tillis pointed out the document that I put out to show of all the things that we’ve done along the lines of your question.
CRUZ: And Mr. Chairman, what would you have done if, on July 30th, the ranking member had — had raised this allegation with you? As the chairman of this committee, how would you have handled that (ph)?
GRASSLEY: We would have done like we have done with every background — or, let’s say FBI report that comes from the White House with a nominee, and then subsequent to that, because maybe the FBI got done with it three months ago, we do through the FBI or information comes to us, then we have our investigators, in a bipartisan way, both the Republicans and the Democrats, follow up on those — whatever those questions are or those problems that have to be worked out.
CRUZ: So bipartisan investigators could have investigated this two months ago and it could have been heard in a confidential setting without Dr. Ford’s name or Judge Kavanaugh’s name being dragged through the mud. Is that correct?
GRASSLEY: And except — and except for one or two conversations that we had with the judge through our investigators, Democrats didn’t participate except in those two, but in those two — or, one or two, they didn’t ask any questions.
Now I am sure this will be ignored or hand waved away but it would seem Feinstein was willing to sacrifice Ford.
Also the moderation of this thread is absolute ****e , I thought this was meant to be the high quality forum
Republicans fought tooth and nail to prevent even a minor investigation into these matters. But obviously only a month prior everything could have been done properly. Sure. Everything the republicans did suggests they would not have taken it seriously. It was only a few rebels that got anything done about it at all.
Oh and all that still could have been done. Would have even allowed a voice from the people on the nomination. I remember they were fussed about that before. Remember most had their minds made up before the testimony and before the limited investigation. If their minds were made up why would they have bothered with a longer one?
If it was brought up in private it would have been ignored in private.0 -
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