Donald Trump is the President Mark IV (Read Mod Warning in OP)

everlast75

SimonTemplar wrote: »

My understanding is that Flake is leaving politics next month so does he have anything to loose by not following the party line here.

I heard that when people leave politics, most try to be a lobbyist.

That's what he wants to do, and in that case, he needs his contacts so is reluctant to rock the boat.

SimonTemplar

How unbelievably badly has Kavanagh judged this. If he was contrite during his testimony, said he did a lot of things in college he regretted and has carried those with him his entire life but that he can honestly say he didn't assault Ford, that might have closed things. Instead, the debate is turning from 'did he assault Ford' to 'did he lie under oath' and the latter seems to be more easily proven.

Penn

SimonTemplar wrote: »

How unbelievably badly has Kavanagh judged this. If he was contrite during his testimony, said he did a lot of things in college he regretted and has carried those with him his entire life but that he can honestly say he didn't assault Ford, that might have closed things. Instead, the debate is turning from 'did he assault Ford' to 'did he lie under oath' and the latter seems to be more easily proven.

Completely agree. He lied about things that are so easily disproven and wouldn't have meant he did what he was accused of. A judge who can so easily lie under oath during the nomination process for a lifetime appointment to the Supreme Court? Yet the Republicans are likely still going to vote to confirm him anyway.

batgoat

Weirder part is his supporters see no problem with a judge pursuing lies to improve his image while under oath.

Stallingrad

He will get the nomination. Nothing will stop it. The GOP are much more focused and ruthlessly working to get their agenda onto the SC before the mid terms. This is an ideological battle and Trump has proven today's scandal is yesterdays news. All the allegations will be forgotten about once he is in and the media frenzy will move onto other things.

I wish it was otherwise.

PopePalpatine

Stallingrad wrote: »

He will get the nomination. Nothing will stop it. The GOP are much more focused and ruthlessly working to get their agenda onto the SC before the mid terms. This is an ideological battle and Trump has proven today's scandal is yesterdays news. All the allegations will be forgotten about once he is in and the media frenzy will move onto other things.

I wish it was otherwise.

Guess what's on the agenda for the upcoming SCOTUS session? The "federal double jeopardy loophole," among other things.

dr.fuzzenstein

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Actually, the media have been writing unbelievably nice stories about him ever since he announced he was running.

There is no reason why they didn't run "Senile vulgar billionaire celebrity degenerate thinks he can lead free world" stories from day one.

And if they had, he might not be there today.

I'm worried he might and with even more votes in his favour.
I have seen posts from Trump supporters on various fora and from what I can tell, they voted for him specifically because they are racist, sexist, intolerant assholes and they are fed up with political correctness, environmentalism, veganism, tolerance towards the LGBT community, people of the "wrong" color or religion, country of origin or even (God Help US!) wimmin.
To them Trump is not in the least bit outrageous, he is quite tame compared to the views of some of his more rabid KKK supporting fans.
Trump very specifically panders to them, but in a careful enough way, so that enough of an attitude of "I want the 50's back" shines through, but not enough that anything specifically racist and sexist can be attributed to him.
Well, obviously there's loads, but nothing that could sink him.

In short, he kind of promises to bring back a world of TV family sitcoms of the 1950's and 60's where Mom stays at home, Dad goes to work at the steel mill or the car plant, there will be steak for dinner, dammit, and the family will have 2 made in the US petrol V8 cars and Sundays there will be Church.
Kinda like an American version of the Taliban.
And I'm beginning to worry that there may be a majority of people stupid enough to want exactly this.

FreudianSlippers

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

I'm worried he might and with even more votes in his favour.
I have seen posts from Trump supporters on various fora and from what I can tell, they voted for him specifically because they are racist, sexist, intolerant assholes and they are fed up with political correctness, environmentalism, veganism, tolerance towards the LGBT community, people of the "wrong" color or religion, country of origin or even (God Help US!) wimmin.

I think the base for Trump has shrunk, but that smaller base is more vocal and less worried about being racist (etc.) - it looks like Dem candidates in traditionally Republican areas are gaining a lot of momentum; the election next month will be a real test. I'm not trusting polls at all at the moment - we'll see!

Penn

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

I think the base for Trump has shrunk, but that smaller base is more vocal and less worried about being racist (etc.) - it looks like Dem candidates in traditionally Republican areas are gaining a lot of momentum; the election next month will be a real test. I'm not trusting polls at all at the moment - we'll see!

I think the biggest problem is, even if the Dems make huge strides and gain a few seats etc, the importance of it has almost been built up so much at this stage that unless they win enough to take control of both the House and the Senate, it might be seen (or portrayed) as a failure.

There's a strong chance they'll take the House, but likely not the Senate. The House will still be a big win, but without the Senate too they'll still be fighting a huge battle to curtail Trump and the GOP.

RIGOLO

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

I'm worried he might and with even more votes in his favour.
I have seen posts from Trump supporters on various fora and from what I can tell, they voted for him specifically because they are racist, sexist, intolerant assholes and they are fed up with political correctness, environmentalism, veganism, tolerance towards the LGBT community, people of the "wrong" color or religion, country of origin or even (God Help US!) wimmin.
To them Trump is not in the least bit outrageous, he is quite tame compared to the views of some of his more rabid KKK supporting fans.
Trump very specifically panders to them, but in a careful enough way, so that enough of an attitude of "I want the 50's back" shines through, but not enough that anything specifically racist and sexist can be attributed to him.
Well, obviously there's loads, but nothing that could sink him.

In short, he kind of promises to bring back a world of TV family sitcoms of the 1950's and 60's where Mom stays at home, Dad goes to work at the steel mill or the car plant, there will be steak for dinner, dammit, and the family will have 2 made in the US petrol V8 cars and Sundays there will be Church.
Kinda like an American version of the Taliban.
And I'm beginning to worry that there may be a majority of people stupid enough to want exactly this.

Not sure what can be said about that... your likening the Trump Administration to the Taliban.

I think the left needs to get over losing the Election , it was nearly 2 years ago after all, (wow 2 years of Donald Trump Presidency and they sky aint fallen in yet) .

The left be better served coming up with some policys and ideas trying to figure out how to win the mid-terms and 2020.

I doubt the left will though, they are showing no form on that front or signs of coming up with any of the above unless you count pinning their hopes on accounts of throwing ice cubes across a bar in the last century as a policy.

mcmoustache

RIGOLO wrote: »

Not sure what can be said about that... your likening the Trump Administration to the Taliban.

I think the left needs to get over losing the Election , it was nearly 2 years ago after all, (wow 2 years of Donald Trump Presidency and they sky aint fallen in yet) .

The left be better served coming up with some policys and ideas trying to figure out how to win the mid-terms and 2020.

I doubt the left will though, they are showing no form on that front or signs of coming up with any of the above unless you count pinning their hopes on accounts of throwing ice cubes across a bar in the last century as a policy.

Who is this left you seem so obsessed by?

listermint

mcmoustache wrote: »

Who is this left you seem so obsessed by?

What 'left' there is no left in US politics, People really need to stop applying that name to centerist parties. It doesnt make sense.

mcmoustache

listermint wrote: »

What 'left' there is no left in US politics, People really need to stop applying that name to centerist parties. It doesnt make sense.

I know. It's just so tiresome and lazy. It's like anyone who isn't in favour of Trump must be a lefty.

josip

'The Left' = Left of us

Professor Moriarty

RIGOLO wrote: »

Not sure what can be said about that... your likening the Trump Administration to the Taliban.

I think the left needs to get over losing the Election , it was nearly 2 years ago after all, (wow 2 years of Donald Trump Presidency and they sky aint fallen in yet) .

The left be better served coming up with some policys and ideas trying to figure out how to win the mid-terms and 2020.

I doubt the left will though, they are showing no form on that front or signs of coming up with any of the above unless you count pinning their hopes on accounts of throwing ice cubes across a bar in the last century as a policy.

Is that all you have? No links to a polemic that you haven't read? No links to economic analysis that you haven't read? Just a dismissive hand wave towards the 'Left'. You didn't even mention Obama or Hillary. Standards are slipping.

Phonehead

listermint wrote: »

What 'left' there is no left in US politics, People really need to stop applying that name to centerist parties. It doesnt make sense.

Nothing grinds my gears more than people trying to tar the Democrats as the left, any credibility of your political ideological knowledge is shot the minute you make this claim.

demfad

Phonehead wrote: »

Nothing grinds my gears more than people trying to tar the Democrats as the left, any credibility of your political ideological knowledge is shot the minute you make this claim.

It's true but its symptomatic of the far rights success in moving the overton window. The notion of the Dems being left hasn't dropped in to discourse organically or by accident.
The far right has been using political technologists to re-position themselves and launder their more extreme views into those that are just about 'mainstream'.
Once here and acceptable (Trump and Brexit in English speaking terms) they can now start to pulling the window even more right. Which moves dems to left side of window.

everlast75

Jesus. How pathetic is this administration?

Trump makes a snide remark to a reporter.
His cronies chuckle in a sycophantic fashion.

And if that wasn't bad enough, he is then shown for the gutless bully he is - his staff change the official transcript of what was said to cover it up.

If you are trying to be the hard man, then don't shy away from what you said. Own it.

I'd wager my house that the reporter has a higher IQ.

https://twitter.com/W7VOA/status/1046952004088737792

Professor Moriarty

everlast75 wrote: »

Jesus. How pathetic is this administration?

Trump makes a snide remark to a reporter.
His cronies chuckle in a sycophantic fashion.

And if that wasn't bad enough, he is then shown for the gutless bully he is - his staff change the official transcript of what was said to cover it up.

If you are trying to be the hard man, then don't shy away from what you said. Own it.

I'd wager my house that the reporter has a higher IQ.

https://twitter.com/W7VOA/status/1046952004088737792

That would be fake news.

everlast75

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

That would be fake news.

I can't wait for Mueller, the Electorate, or a sitting judge in one of his cases to wipe that fake tanned smirk off his face.

He'll get his comeuppance, it will be substantial, and I'll be raising a toast when it is delivered.

frag420

RIGOLO wrote: »

Not sure what can be said about that... your likening the Trump Administration to the Taliban.

I think the left needs to get over losing the Election , it was nearly 2 years ago after all, (wow 2 years of Donald Trump Presidency and they sky aint fallen in yet) .

The left be better served coming up with some policys and ideas trying to figure out how to win the mid-terms and 2020.

I doubt the left will though, they are showing no form on that front or signs of coming up with any of the above unless you count pinning their hopes on accounts of throwing ice cubes across a bar in the last century as a policy.

And yet the Idiot in Chief keeps talking about the college vote, Clinton conspiracies to win the poplar vote etc etc etc...it was two years ago, take a chill pill, you won, get over it!!

The Idiot in Chief's only reason to keep going on about it is that he knows deep down that he is/was not at popular as Hillary and he needs to keep bringing this stuff up to make himself and his base feel good, SAD!!!

Captain Obvious

frag420 wrote: »

And yet the Idiot in Chief keeps talking about the college vote, Clinton conspiracies to win the poplar vote etc etc etc...it was two years ago, take a chill pill, you won, get over it!!

The Idiot in Chief's only reason to keep going on about it is that he knows deep down that he is/was not at popular as Hillary and he needs to keep bringing this stuff up to make himself and his base feel good, SAD!!!

Didn't he very recently make the claim he won the women's vote?

everlast75

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Didn't he very recently make the claim he won the women's vote?

I think he said he got 42% of the women's vote. He got 42% of white women's vote.

Understandably for him, black women didn't factor.

Manic Moran

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

it looks like Dem candidates in traditionally Republican areas are gaining a lot of momentum; the election next month will be a real test. I'm not trusting polls at all at the moment - we'll see!

They are, but as I observed a few days ago, even huge swings in such areas do not necessarily lead to a loss of seats.

CNN has an article today about a Republican up for re-election in an area Clinton won against Trump. His opponent is Gina Ortiz Jones, she was mentioned on this thread before as being an example of the diversity of the candidates being put forward this year (Lesbian, Hispanic, military veteran). The Republican is sufficiently far ahead in the polls that, if they are accurate, most all the “undecideds” have to vote for her to have a chance. His secret, and that of some other R candidates like Nunes in California, is to have a reputation of working for their constituents. The mass media, and foreigners, will see Nunes as pro-trump, especially with those intelligence committee memos. His constituents, the guys and girls who actually vote, see him as the guy fighting for their water access, what actually keeps them alive with roofs over their heads. Which is more important? https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/02/politics/will-hurd-republican-survive-a-blue-wave/index.html

Manic Moran

Double post.

listermint

josip wrote: »

'The Left' = Left of us

Its simply not true, The left is used as a divisive partisan term. It sole purpose is to make the other side look futher away from you than closer. And liberal lefty libtard is the furthest extreme possible. It has nothing to do with a little left than us.

If they used terms like centrist part it would put the democrats in a more middle of the road very close to republican views but down the middle. That sort of talk is to close to home and may sway voters into thinking hey those democrats arent that much different to me. I think i may look at what they are offering.


So the term Left is deployed with purpose in the US and not to the extent you have said. Its also not factual, so much so as to become meaningless

dr.fuzzenstein

RIGOLO wrote: »

Not sure what can be said about that... your likening the Trump Administration to the Taliban.

I think the left needs to get over losing the Election , it was nearly 2 years ago after all, (wow 2 years of Donald Trump Presidency and they sky aint fallen in yet) .

The left be better served coming up with some policys and ideas trying to figure out how to win the mid-terms and 2020.

I doubt the left will though, they are showing no form on that front or signs of coming up with any of the above unless you count pinning their hopes on accounts of throwing ice cubes across a bar in the last century as a policy.

I even agree with you there. So far Trump has not done anything too terrible.
The sky has indeed not fallen. He might even complete his term having done some good for some people. I'm glad for everything positive that comes out of his presidency.
I openly admit that I just can't stand the guy. He is krass, ignorant and obnoxious. And those may be some of his better qualities.
But I also disagree with him on a politcal level.
The Muslim Ban, The Wall, seperating families at the border as a matter of course and his needless trade wars are only tactics to appeal to his more "salty" fanbase and of little to no practical value.
He likes to rip up old agreements, repackage them and sell them back as "his" accomplishments.
But his deliberate stoking of the economy and ripping up of the Paris Accord are more worrying, it's like driving towards a cliff and flooring it. It won't end well.
As for comparing some of his followers to the Taliban, well, a lot of them are gun obsessed, religiouis fruitcakes that aren't exactly enamoured to equal rights for women and gays and they certainly have no time for people who think differently.
So yes, absolutely, there is not exactly a yawning chasm between them.

everlast75

RIGOLO wrote: »

(wow 2 years of Donald Trump Presidency and they sky aint fallen in yet)

Well, thankfully his staff are whipping pages off his desk otherwise it would have been WW3 with North Korea!

spacecoyote

everlast75 wrote: »

Well, thankfully his staff are whipping pages off his desk otherwise it would have been WW3 with North Korea!

My God, all of the Woodward talk seems like an age ago at this stage, and its less than a month ago.

I guess, rather depressingly, the constant flood of noise & scandal does really dilute its impact

pixelburp

everlast75 wrote: »

Well, thankfully his staff are whipping pages off his desk otherwise it would have been WW3 with North Korea!

And, let's not forget, if they're not whipping pages from the desk, they have to empty the rubbish bin and sellotape the documents back together - cos Trump won't / can't stop ripping up stuff when he's done. Despite being told legally those pages need to be preserved.