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A query about the term LGBTQI
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24-07-2018 1:38am#1
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One thing I've noticed is that older people (I'm thinking of my parents generation) have a tendency to get annoyed by the increasing letters, especially if they're not particularly tolerant in the first place...
I don't think that's an observation could be solely confined to your parents generation
The terminology and etymology of language used is constantly evolving. To take a well known example - the Stonewall Riots. Some academics have suggested that the leaders of the riots were transgender rather than how they would describe themselves, as queens, transvestites. One of the leaders of the riots, Sylvia Riviera, this to say about labels -
People now want to call me a lesbian because I'm with Julia, and I say, "No. I'm just me. I'm not a lesbian." I'm tired of being labeled. I don't even like the label transgender. I'm tired of living with labels. I just want to be who I am. I am Sylvia Rivera. Ray Rivera left home at the age of 10 to become Sylvia. And that's who I am.
To give you another example, the term SGL, or 'same gender loving' is used primarily in African American communities as a modern day rejection of what are considered 'Eurocentric' labels -
Recent studies indicate that African-American disadvantaged youths are less likely than Euro-American youths to self-label as gay male, lesbian, or transgender youths.
There are many other examples, such as MOGAI and GSD.
One elementary school in Canada caused consternation when the media got hold of their efforts to advertise a course they were offering for teachers -
Canadian elementary school teachers attend 'LGGBDTTTIQQAAPP' inclusiveness training session. Would you understand the title?, but snopes.com was quick to get to the source and set the record straight... so to speak, for the very reasons you identified in your opening post -
Yes, the poster is genuine. The intent of the title was to draw workshop participants (teachers) by acknowledging that keeping track of diverse LGBTQ identities can be overwhelming, especially as our students are continuously identifying new ones. In our union, we use LGBTQ as an umbrella term for all marginalized sexual and gender identities.0 -
One eyed Jack wrote: »I don't think that's an observation could be solely confined to your parents generation
The terminology and etymology of language used is constantly evolving. To take a well known example - the Stonewall Riots. Some academics have suggested that the leaders of the riots were transgender rather than how they would describe themselves, as queens, transvestites. One of the leaders of the riots, Sylvia Riviera, this to say about labels -
People now want to call me a lesbian because I'm with Julia, and I say, "No. I'm just me. I'm not a lesbian." I'm tired of being labeled. I don't even like the label transgender. I'm tired of living with labels. I just want to be who I am. I am Sylvia Rivera. Ray Rivera left home at the age of 10 to become Sylvia. And that's who I am.
To give you another example, the term SGL, or 'same gender loving' is used primarily in African American communities as a modern day rejection of what are considered 'Eurocentric' labels -
Recent studies indicate that African-American disadvantaged youths are less likely than Euro-American youths to self-label as gay male, lesbian, or transgender youths.
There are many other examples, such as MOGAI and GSD.
One elementary school in Canada caused consternation when the media got hold of their efforts to advertise a course they were offering for teachers -
Canadian elementary school teachers attend 'LGGBDTTTIQQAAPP' inclusiveness training session. Would you understand the title?, but snopes.com was quick to get to the source and set the record straight... so to speak, for the very reasons you identified in your opening post -
Yes, the poster is genuine. The intent of the title was to draw workshop participants (teachers) by acknowledging that keeping track of diverse LGBTQ identities can be overwhelming, especially as our students are continuously identifying new ones. In our union, we use LGBTQ as an umbrella term for all marginalized sexual and gender identities.
More transwomen erasure - I.e. TERF ****e0 -
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JackTaylorFan wrote: »What kind of garbage are you spouting now?
We are talking about gaining rights for a whole group of oppressed people. We are not talking about one individual.
And I have no problem with non-trans LGBT+ representatives who understand the issues speaking out on our behalf - as was done very recently in the Seanád by Fintan Warfield.
But yes, if some people in the wider LGBTQ+ community are denying the rights of another for whatever ignorant reason they might have, that affects them in no way whatsoever, of course I'm gonna tell them to shut the hell up and stay in their lane.
You clearly do have issues with people who don't share your perspective speaking from their perspective. What we are talking about here are individuals who are representatives of their respective communities. You can tell people all you want to stay in their own lane, but they aren't obligated either to take you seriously or listen to you. If people like Marsha P Johnson, Sylvia Riviera, Caitlyn Jenner or the example of the woman that Joey gave had heeded people telling them to stay in their own lane, then we would never be aware of them as leaders within their own respective communities. The other thing about that 'shut up and stay in your own lane' philosophy is that it can just as easily be applied to you by other people, and are you any more likely to take them seriously? I wouldn't think soJoeytheparrot wrote: »Yeah
I have to agree with you on this. Individualism for me is a completely abhorrent philosophy. It emphasises some good things like freedom and of coyrse personal autonomy but then when taken too far to its extremes it is all about basically pure heartless selfishness and survival of the fittest (basically **** minorities and let the rich well connected trample on everyone).
We would never be where with womens rights, lgbt rights, human rights, workers rights generally if we took an individualist approach to life. We would still be in a society where would be massive structural exploitation of workers, opression/discrimination of lgbt people, women, people with disabilities.
If the like of Marsha Johnson and Sylvia Rivera took an individualist approach to life and political activism then who knows how backward we would be in terms of lgbt rights. We certainly wouldnt have had much social and political improvements for LGBT peoples lives that we have had in the West for sure.
I hope what I've written above clarifies my position in relation to individuals and how they are representative of their communities. Another example I often think of is someone like Harvey Milk, who was undeniably a great leader in his community, someone I really admired, until I read how he threw one of his own under the bus for his own political gain -On September 22, 1975, President Gerald Ford, while visiting San Francisco, walked from his hotel to his car. In the crowd, Sara Jane Moore raised a gun to shoot him. A former Marine who had been walking by grabbed her arm as the gun discharged toward the pavement. The bystander was Oliver "Bill" Sipple, who had left Milk's ex-lover Joe Campbell years before, prompting Campbell's suicide attempt. The national spotlight was on him immediately. On psychiatric disability leave from the military, Sipple refused to call himself a hero and did not want his sexuality disclosed. Milk, however, took advantage of the opportunity to illustrate his cause that public perception of gay people would be improved if they came out of the closet. He told a friend: "It's too good an opportunity. For once we can show that gays do heroic things, not just all that ca-ca about molesting children and hanging out in bathrooms." Milk contacted a newspaper.
Several days later Herb Caen, a columnist at The San Francisco Chronicle, exposed Sipple as gay and a friend of Milk's. The announcement was picked up by national newspapers, and Milk's name was included in many of the stories. Time magazine named Milk as a leader in San Francisco's gay community. Sipple, however, was besieged by reporters, as was his family. His mother, a staunch Baptist in Detroit, now refused to speak to him. Although he had been involved with the gay community for years, even participating in Gay Pride events, Sipple sued the Chronicle for invasion of privacy. President Ford sent Sipple a note of thanks for saving his life. Milk said that Sipple's sexual orientation was the reason he received only a note, rather than an invitation to the White House.
His decision to out Oliver Sipple may well have been personally motivated too, but for me his actions tainted his achievements. I don't have to like him as a person, but I can't deny all that he did achieve for his community.JackTaylorFan wrote: »Really? You have no idea? Sure...
Anyways...
To the question of western science: Well, the only people I ever hear accusing modern medicine/science of being all the things you just listed, is ironically, the xenophobic, the racist, classist and bigoted - funny that, huh?
And "weird"? Well, yeah, I'm sure thunder and lightning was weird to a caveman too.
Nope, I don't have any idea other than our difference of perspective. Anyways, to my use of the acronym WEIRD, I assumed you weren't familiar with the term which is why I linked to it. I can only assume now given what you've written subsequently that you didn't even bother to click on the link to understand the meaning and context of the acronym in relation to what I posted, which was a commentary on Western perspective of science, and in particular the social sciences. The acronym stands for Western, Educated, Industrialised, Rich, Democratic nations, and the US is a perfect example of same. The problem with that perspective in the social sciences is that it represents only about 12% of world populations and cultures, yet it produces most of the scientific literature which tends to make assumptions about populations as though their ideas are universal.
I don't think it's funny at all (if by funny you mean in the sense that it actually is ironic) that you're attuned to scientific and medical opinions which support your own narrative, but that also tells me you didn't bother to watch the video I posted earlier of someone who sees the medical and scientific community as doing harm to members of their community, because of the gender binary narrative they subscribe to which means they get to mutilate people without their consent just to fit in with their narratives of sex and gender.
There's three human concepts throughout human history which some people have used to claim an entitlement to authority over other people and justify committing abhorrent acts of violence against those people - religion, science and politics. Only the first two are of any interest to me, the third - not so much.JackTaylorFan wrote: »I like this though... kinda sounds like someone saying "I am a woman with a transgender history" to me - funny that.
I guess then you didn't watch that video either. The fundamental difference between the example I gave, and the example that Joey gave, is that the people in the film are conflicted between an identity they wish to maintain, and an identity they wish to aspire to. Michael Jackson tried, didn't work out so well for him, and now his daughter is caught up in a similar conflict between her cultural and racial heritage, and seeking acceptance and validation, with Wendy Williams acting like she's the authoritarian gatekeeper of how people should identify themselves -
Michael Jackson’s daughter Paris responds to criticism for saying she ‘considers herself black’
In the example that Joey gave, I don't see any evidence of any internal conflict. However, I do see you trying to push your narrative on other people who aren't you, which is indeed, ironic, and I don't mean in the sense that what you're doing is in any way amusing. I genuinely do wonder who do you think you are are that you think you can tell other people to stay in the lane that you prescribe for them.0
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