Rifle cert

TheEngineer1

Hello,

I'm looking to get a rifle for foxing and deer stalking. I have a shotgun and I'm a member of a gun club with plenty of foxes on the club land and a friend has deer on their land also.


Would the guards look for a deer license with an application or if I explained my situation with my intention to apply for a deer license once I had the rifle suffice? I see on the deer application it looks for a rifle calibre and serial number so I'm wondering how the guards could look for one if you have no gun to put down?


Do I need to tick the "sights" box on the FCA1 to get a rifle telescope?


Are deer an exempted wild animal under the Wildlife Act 1976? (FCA1 section 5.1?)

I'm also trying to pick a calibre. A friend offered me a .220 swift but suitable deer ammo seems nearly impossible to find in Ireland, and I know many people consider the swift and .22-250 a bit light for deer even if they are more easily got on foxing grounds?

Would a .243, .25-06, or 6.5x55mm Swedish be trickier to license in my situation? What calibre would ye recommend?

A bit long winded but thanks for bearing with me!

meathstevie

TheEngineer1 wrote: »

Hello,

I'm looking to get a rifle for foxing and deer stalking. I have a shotgun and I'm a member of a gun club with plenty of foxes on the club land and a friend has deer on their land also.


Would the guards look for a deer license with an application or if I explained my situation with my intention to apply for a deer license once I had the rifle suffice? I see on the deer application it looks for a rifle calibre and serial number so I'm wondering how the guards could look for one if you have no gun to put down?


Do I need to tick the "sights" box on the FCA1 to get a rifle telescope?


Are deer an exempted wild animal under the Wildlife Act 1976? (FCA1 section 5.1?)

I'm also trying to pick a calibre. A friend offered me a .220 swift but suitable deer ammo seems nearly impossible to find in Ireland, and I know many people consider the swift and .22-250 a bit light for deer even if they are more easily got on foxing grounds?

Would a .243, .25-06, or 6.5x55mm Swedish be trickier to license in my situation? What calibre would ye recommend?

A bit long winded but thanks for bearing with me!

The three calibers you've mentioned in your last paragraph are all very suitable for deer. Maybe you should include .308 in your list as well as there's probably a wider range of more affordable ammo available for foxing in that caliber.

Most Superintendents will want to see either membership of a target range or a deer licence in order to issue a licence for anything bigger than a .22 center fire.

In my opinion the best way to go about it is to go look at as many rifles as you can in the next while. Put a deposit on the one you prefer, apply for the deer licence and you could be up and running in a matter of a few weeks to a few months depending on how fast the admin gets processed.

cookimonster

To make things easier it would be advisable to have your deer licence prior to applying for a rifle licence. The Gaurds don't issue the deer hunting licence (DHL) thats the responsibility of the National Parks and Wildlife.

Weather or not this is a bona fide way of doing it but several lads I know personely successfully applied for DHL using details from another rifle. This can be corrected by someone in the know here.
You can go in and put a deposit down on a suitable rifle and use these details but be sure you know where you stand in relation to deposits, returns etc if not all goes to plan.
My rational for the last comment is that you will be dependent on the successfull application of the DHL for your firearms licence, the DHL will only be issued if the department, after inspection are satisfied that there are indeed deer present on the land (minimum 100 acres) and shooting is justified. This dependant on the local wildlife ranger may take a while especially if the ground is not known to them in relation to deer stalking. You will need folio numbers etc for the land. The NPWS have all you need forms wise to guide you through this process.

The sight box on the firearms application form is for rifle mounted night vision only so unless your jumping straight into that NO don't tick the box but do tick it for a moderator even if your not buying one now, always handy to have the option.

As per the DHL application form any .22 calibre may be used once it meets the magical numbers but to be honest the .243 is the most suitable entry level calibre out there, perfect for all species of deer and foxing. Calibre selection, once meeting the legal standard, is a very personal choice with hotly debated opinions as to which is better. For a duel purpose rifle the .243 will cover the spectrum, but dead is dead and a larger calibre such as 6.5, .270 and 308 will all deal with deer and fox alike.
Give us back some detail as to the type of stalking you'll be doing. Also consider will it be a lot of deer and a few foxs or vice a versa, a lot of fox with a few deer. Bear in mind when I started stalking I said a couple of deer will do me, but now I shoot every week over the season.

Get all your info together etc, land permission, rifle preference, scopes etc and give it a good mulling over before parting with any hard earned cash.

Cass

Welcome to the forum.

TheEngineer1 wrote: »

Would the guards look for a deer license with an application or if I explained my situation with my intention to apply for a deer license once I had the rifle suffice?

They'll want the license because this wil be your "Good reason" for applying for the firearm. Usually the NPWS will issue you with a letter to say they will grant you a license come deer season if you're successful in applying for a DHL. You attach this letter to your application. Its not guaranteed though and AGS (An gardaí) may still seek the actual license in which case you'll have to wait till August to get it, then apply.

I see on the deer application it looks for a rifle calibre and serial number so I'm wondering how the guards could look for one if you have no gun to put down?

As said above by Cookimonster, the NPWS issue deer hunting licenses, not AGS. There is a slight catch-22 situation were you need one to get the other but i've outlined how that can be done above.

Do I need to tick the "sights" box on the FCA1 to get a rifle telescope?

As per above.

Are deer an exempted wild animal under the Wildlife Act 1976? (FCA1 section 5.1?)

Yes. You supply a copy of your DHL with the FCA1 or the letter of authroisation as discussed above.

Would a .243, .25-06, or 6.5x55mm Swedish be trickier to license in my situation? What calibre would ye recommend?

There is no law to say you must be a range member or have a DHL to get a larger caliber rifle as in 243, 6.5, 270, 308, etc. However the law does say "Good reason" so if you were to try and get such a caliber without range membership or a DHL you would have to convince your Super that it [the caliber you choose] is the only suitable firearm for the job.

We always say you need Range membership or a DHL as these are the two most common reasons for getting a license for a "deer legal" caliber, but technically speaking its not a law. Just something FYI.

I'll leave the caliber discussion up the lads because its like asking how long a piece of string is.

TheEngineer1

cookimonster wrote: »

To make things easier it would be advisable to have your deer licence prior to applying for a rifle licence. The Gaurds don't issue the deer hunting licence (DHL) thats the responsibility of the National Parks and Wildlife.

Weather or not this is a bona fide way of doing it but several lads I know personely successfully applied for DHL using details from another rifle. This can be corrected by someone in the know here.
You can go in and put a deposit down on a suitable rifle and use these details but be sure you know where you stand in relation to deposits, returns etc if not all goes to plan.
My rational for the last comment is that you will be dependent on the successfull application of the DHL for your firearms licence, the DHL will only be issued if the department, after inspection are satisfied that there are indeed deer present on the land (minimum 100 acres) and shooting is justified. This dependant on the local wildlife ranger may take a while especially if the ground is not known to them in relation to deer stalking. You will need folio numbers etc for the land. The NPWS have all you need forms wise to guide you through this process.

The sight box on the firearms application form is for rifle mounted night vision only so unless your jumping straight into that NO don't tick the box but do tick it for a moderator even if your not buying one now, always handy to have the option.

As per the DHL application form any .22 calibre may be used once it meets the magical numbers but to be honest the .243 is the most suitable entry level calibre out there, perfect for all species of deer and foxing. Calibre selection, once meeting the legal standard, is a very personal choice with hotly debated opinions as to which is better. For a duel purpose rifle the .243 will cover the spectrum, but dead is dead and a larger calibre such as 6.5, .270 and 308 will all deal with deer and fox alike.
Give us back some detail as to the type of stalking you'll be doing. Also consider will it be a lot of deer and a few foxs or vice a versa, a lot of fox with a few deer. Bear in mind when I started stalking I said a couple of deer will do me, but now I shoot every week over the season.

Get all your info together etc, land permission, rifle preference, scopes etc and give it a good mulling over before parting with any hard earned cash.

Cheers for the replys lads. I have permission on a farm with fields, a small forest plantation, and some land being left wild under the GLAS scheme. So there is fields, forest, and rough ground to shoot over.

I imagine it would be mostly deer shooting I'd be doing, with an occasional fox if he's being a pest.

cookimonster

Always good to have some forested area the deer love it. Any idea as to the species of deer on the land?

As for calibre I'll start the ball rolling, I'm shooting both .243 and .270 but if I was to start over with only one gun I think the .308 would be my choice.

There's another thread here about scopes and I was impressed with the price of the second hand scopea on offer from England. A nice 6 x 42 sitting on a compact rifle with a light weight moderator will set you up for all your needs.
For farmland and woods I prefer a set of shooting sticks over bipods I do use the bipods but found more and more that I wasn't actually using them on the shot. So the .243 is decked out with moderator and bipod and keep this for foxing and highseat hunting while the 270 is bare bones and I carry adjustable sticks when I'm foot stalking.

TheEngineer1

I hadn't thought of scopes or sticks/ bipods or even moderators! Got a bit caught up with the paperwork side of it lol, I'll have to check out that thread!

Uinseann_16

cookimonster wrote: »

Always good to have some forested area the deer love it. Any idea as to the species of deer on the land?

As for calibre I'll start the ball rolling, I'm shooting both .243 and .270 but if I was to start over with only one gun I think the .308 would be my choice.

+1 for the .308 i bought one last year when i finally came of age to get the DHL because ammo is readily available walk into any decent gunshop in Ireland and your almost guaranteed they'll have 308 for sale which can be handy
Also you'll have plenty of second hand 308s available in RFDs
But at the end of the day the caliber doesn't really matter anything thats deer legal will work as long as you do your bit and although plenty of lads will argue one caliber over another constantly dead is dead and the deer doesnt care whether its been shot by the latest fad caliber or a .303 from ww1
So buy the best option thats available to you and buy decent optics and ammunition

TheEngineer1

cookimonster wrote: »

Always good to have some forested area the deer love it. Any idea as to the species of deer on the land?

As for calibre I'll start the ball rolling, I'm shooting both .243 and .270 but if I was to start over with only one gun I think the .308 would be my choice.

There's another thread here about scopes and I was impressed with the price of the second hand scopea on offer from England. A nice 6 x 42 sitting on a compact rifle with a light weight moderator will set you up for all your needs.
For farmland and woods I prefer a set of shooting sticks over bipods I do use the bipods but found more and more that I wasn't actually using them on the shot. So the .243 is decked out with moderator and bipod and keep this for foxing and highseat hunting while the 270 is bare bones and I carry adjustable sticks when I'm foot stalking.

I'm 90% sure it's Sika? Any tips for stalking them?

meathstevie

TheEngineer1 wrote: »

I'm 90% sure it's Sika? Any tips for stalking them?

If you have some time on your hands try to establish their routine of coming and going through the area.

Move quietly with them upwind from you and use the features of the land you're on to conceal your movement as much as possible.

Wear "quiet" clothes and footwear. A tight fitting boot for example lets you move far quieter than loose fitting wellies.

cookimonster

Carefully!!!��

The smallest of our deer (discounting the elusive, magical Muntjac, last seen by the lad down the road, mates cousins sister in law who's new boy friend on the side said he saw one the other night) but one of the toughest.
All deer need proper respect, skill and a big chunk of luck to stalk them but Sika can be tricky as they can be very jumpy. Some will say they don't like high winds in wooded areas, others say they don't like rain. I've shot them in both but cold crisp days with little or no winds and dry days can improve your luck. Animals move on first light and last light, so early season means early mornings for the stalker but on the other hand you've the opportunity to stalk evenings after work. Late season sees the early morning rises become later but your day drasticly shortens limiting afternoon stalks. As the season progresses I try to stalk the whole day when the days are the shortest.
Sika love open woods as well as clear fell but will retreat and disappear into the thickest bush and tight timber. You'll find them on the edge of wood land be it tick or thin venturing out on to grassy fields or scraggly bog land weather lowland or hill side.
Look for crossing points on ditches, wire fences and stone walls. Regular crossing points will be noticable due to slots on the ground, worn tracks, damaged fencing / walls, traces of hair. Young trees will show signs of browsing, trashing etc. Dung, pellets, droppings will be on tracks and feeding areas. This time of the year animals especially the calves will couch up in long grass and these will be visible as you walk in. As the seasons progress and the foliage changes more and more sign will appear.
In my experience stalking wood land I notice a change in deer patterns as the season goes along. Areas that held Hinds all Sept and Oct will suddenly be blank come Jan and Feb. Having said that animals will still use the same track system even if a wood has been cleared, habits and taking the easy option is not exculsive to the human race.
Set yourself up watching the edges of wood land or young plantations, while clearings, fire brakes or old roads in the woods make good choke points as well.
During the rut the stags hold rutting stands which can be staked out, look for traces of these prior to the season and during the beginning. Don't dismiss hind groups in the first couple of months of the season as these often have young spike followers hanging around. You'll often see a hind and calf closely followed up by a spiker so stand your ground and wait to see what else comes out.
If the land is difficult to stalk the use of high seats will aid your endeavours, if your handy you can construct your own or if you can guarantee security you'll buy good quailty purpose made high seats cheaply from the UK.

All of the above needs many days of recon, so if your serious about it your best bet is to get out now and start checking out the area.

TheEngineer1

cookimonster wrote: »

Carefully!!!��

The smallest of our deer (discounting the elusive, magical Muntjac, last seen by the lad down the road, mates cousins sister in law who's new boy friend on the side said he saw one the other night) but one of the toughest.
All deer need proper respect, skill and a big chunk of luck to stalk them but Sika can be tricky as they can be very jumpy. Some will say they don't like high winds in wooded areas, others say they don't like rain. I've shot them in both but cold crisp days with little or no winds and dry days can improve your luck. Animals move on first light and last light, so early season means early mornings for the stalker but on the other hand you've the opportunity to stalk evenings after work. Late season sees the early morning rises become later but your day drasticly shortens limiting afternoon stalks. As the season progresses I try to stalk the whole day when the days are the shortest.
Sika love open woods as well as clear fell but will retreat and disappear into the thickest bush and tight timber. You'll find them on the edge of wood land be it tick or thin venturing out on to grassy fields or scraggly bog land weather lowland or hill side.
Look for crossing points on ditches, wire fences and stone walls. Regular crossing points will be noticable due to slots on the ground, worn tracks, damaged fencing / walls, traces of hair. Young trees will show signs of browsing, trashing etc. Dung, pellets, droppings will be on tracks and feeding areas. This time of the year animals especially the calves will couch up in long grass and these will be visible as you walk in. As the seasons progress and the foliage changes more and more sign will appear.
In my experience stalking wood land I notice a change in deer patterns as the season goes along. Areas that held Hinds all Sept and Oct will suddenly be blank come Jan and Feb. Having said that animals will still use the same track system even if a wood has been cleared, habits and taking the easy option is not exculsive to the human race.
Set yourself up watching the edges of wood land or young plantations, while clearings, fire brakes or old roads in the woods make good choke points as well.
During the rut the stags hold rutting stands which can be staked out, look for traces of these prior to the season and during the beginning. Don't dismiss hind groups in the first couple of months of the season as these often have young spike followers hanging around. You'll often see a hind and calf closely followed up by a spiker so stand your ground and wait to see what else comes out.
If the land is difficult to stalk the use of high seats will aid your endeavours, if your handy you can construct your own or if you can guarantee security you'll buy good quailty purpose made high seats cheaply from the UK.

All of the above needs many days of recon, so if your serious about it your best bet is to get out now and start checking out the area.

That's a great answer, thank you!

I've my eye set on two rifles at the moment. One is .243 and one is .308. Same model but the larger calibre is about fifty quid more.

Looking online, I see hunting ammunition for both calibres seems to be about the same price (30 quid for a box of bullets sound right?). So in that case I imagine going for the .308 would be a better option for dropping bigger stags?

Uinseann_16

TheEngineer1 wrote: »

That's a great answer, thank you!

I've my eye set on two rifles at the moment. One is .243 and one is .308. Same model but the larger calibre is about fifty quid more.

Looking online, I see hunting ammunition for both calibres seems to be about the same price (30 quid for a box of bullets sound right?). So in that case I imagine going for the .308 would be a better option for dropping bigger stags?

Both of those calibers will drop anything on this island:D Plenty of lads use .243s for shooting large red stags with good success and its a popular cartridge in scotland for doing just that. The .243 would also be a "flatter" shooting round which might be better for a beginner and its also quite popular for shooting foxes so it would be a better dual purpose rifle IMO.
Just make sure the 243 hasn't got a ludicrous amount of rounds shot through it:P

TheEngineer1

Rifle paid for and hunting license applied for. Got onto the NPWS and they said I might only have to miss the first couple of weeks of the season. Sent my application on by email but haven't received any acknowledgement of receipt yet. Should I get onto them again?

Uinseann_16

TheEngineer1 wrote: »

Rifle paid for and hunting license applied for. Got onto the NPWS and they said I might only have to miss the first couple of weeks of the season. Sent my application on by email but haven't received any acknowledgement of receipt yet. Should I get onto them again?

What did you go for in the end?

TheEngineer1

Went for a 308 that was a little less expensive than the other two I was looking at. Got a 6-24x50 telescope to go on top. Rifle isn't threaded but the dealer can have it done for about 100 quid so I might get that done once I (hopefully!) get the license with the suppressor authorisation.

Hopefully won't have to wait too long!

cookimonster

You won't get a receipt or acknowledgement from NPWS ..... but thier pretty on the ball this year with early applicant's.

Depending on your local Gaurds I would say your firearms licence will be your longest wait

TheEngineer1

cookimonster wrote: »

You won't get a receipt or acknowledgement from NPWS ..... but thier pretty on the ball this year with early applicant's.

Depending on your local Gaurds I would say your firearms licence will be your longest wait

When I applied for the shotgun, they rang me the same day to let me know that my application had been approved. I was very impressed.

Think there's a new superintendent now though so hoping for a repeat of last time may be wishful thinking. AFAIK anyway once all your relevant documents are in order they aren't too bad to deal with.

cookimonster

Best I've had for a new licence was just short of a month from application to grant letter, two weeks for one substitution and over 5 months for another substitution.

TheEngineer1

Deer license arrived Friday morning, applied by email on August 2nd so fairly impressed with the NPWS.

Going into the Garda station in the morning to apply, hopefully wont take too long. Then I'll have to get onto the gun dealer and get him to sort me out with a package for the rifle

Walter Mittys Brother

You in Republic? Be dealer first if you are.

TheEngineer1

Walter Mittys Brother wrote: »

You in Republic? Be dealer first if you are.

Yep, I have a deposit on the gun and scope already. Hopefully now I'll get him to sort me out with threading, suppressor, bipod, sling ect. (anything else I'm missing?)

cookimonster

TheEngineer1 wrote: »

Yep, I have a deposit on the gun and scope already. Hopefully now I'll get him to sort me out with threading, suppressor, bipod, sling ect. (anything else I'm missing?)

A decent set of binos (8x42, 10x45, 8x56), a set of shooting sticks, a good knife (about 4 inches long),drag line (simple rope or a harness set up), a game tray ( fits a deer and the back of your car),deer sized refrigerator, suitable butchery area (dining room table ,and understanding partner, or a shed etc etc.) and finally a good sized freezer for all the tasty goodies (Sika can average up to 35Kg + of boneless meat.)

Before all that, get lots and lots and lots of ammunition and targets. Then shoot from prone, sitting and standing at 50, 100, 200 and 300 hundred yards.

Best of luck with your rifle.