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Trans children - looking for advice - Mod warning in post 1 & post 30

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  • 21-07-2018 8:48pm
    #1
    fixie40
    Registered Users Posts: 1 ✭


    Hi, I'm new here.
    I have taken my 10yr old son shopping today for girls clothes. He's delighted with life but I'm feeling really panicky. Both my husband and I are happy for him to be the person his is, but I'd like to shelter him from the big bad world. Have I jumped the gun? Should we have taken him to see someone first? We've been googling but there doesn't seem to be much support around both numbers I found only operate twice a month....


    Mod

    Unhelpful off topic posts will be deleted
    Posts suggesting child abuse will be sanctioned
    Posts criticising the OPs parenting will be sanctioned
    Posts using transphobic and derogatory language will be sanctioned
    Posts not abiding by the forum charter will be sanctioned


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    #2
    ismat
    Registered Users Posts: 167 ✭✭ismat


    Why would you bring a boy shopping for girls clothes?


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    #3
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,815 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    ismat wrote: »
    Why would you bring a boy shopping for girls clothes?

    Mod

    This is not a helpful response. If you want to contribute to this thread please only come back with helpful discussion

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #4
    ismat
    Registered Users Posts: 167 ✭✭ismat


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    Mod

    This is not a helpful response. If you want to contribute to this thread please only come back with helpful discussion

    Why do you say this ? I genuinely do not know why someone would buy girls clothes for a boy. Would you not buy them boys clothes ?


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    #5
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,815 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    OP you should contact Transparenci through TENI


    https://www.facebook.com/Transparenci-493989193956705/

    http://www.teni.ie/support.aspx?filter=FS


    DUBLIN
    TransParenCI & Transformers Dublin
    Dublin
    The meetings are held on the 1st Wednesday of every month
    T Contact TENI at (01) 873 3575
    E transparencigroup@gmail.com

    TransParenCI is a peer support group for parents and family members of trans people. Transformers is a peer support group for trans young people whose parents attend TransParenCI. Both groups run simultaneously but are facilitated in separate spaces. For more info contact TENI at (01) 873 3575

    LIMERICK
    TransParenCI Limerick
    GOSHH (Gender Orientation Sexual Health HIV), Redwood Place, 18 Davis Street, Limerick
    The meetings are held on the 3rd Monday of every month
    T Call GOSHH on (061) 314 354 or TENI on (01) 873 3575.
    E transparencigroup@gmail.com

    TransParenCI is a peer support group for parents and family members of trans people.

    WATERFORD
    TransParenCI & Transformers Waterford
    Squashy Couch, 32 Parnell St. Waterford
    Meetings are held on the 3rd Tuesday of every month
    T Contact TENI at (01) 873 3575.
    E transparencigroup@gmail.com

    TransParenCI is a peer support group for parents and family members of trans people. Transformers is a peer support group for trans young people whose parents attend TransParenCI. Both groups run simultaneously but are facilitated in separate spaces.

    Gender Identity Family Support Line
    National
    2nd and 4th Friday from 6pm - 9pm
    T 01 9073707

    A volunteer-led listening and support service for families of trans and gender non-conforming people in Ireland


    GenderED
    National
    W www.GenderEd.ie

    GenderEd is an online education programme aimed at supporting adult family members of transgender young people (less than 18 years of age). This education programme was developed as research has shown that access to education and information is important for families of transgender young people in their ability to help accept and support them.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #6
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,815 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Mod

    We dont know fully what the OPs situation is. The op is posting here looking for advice/support because her child might possible be transgender. Please keep the thread on topic to offer advice/support or helpful responses.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #7
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 16,890 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    I struggle to fully understand fluid but I get trans. My kids are in their 20s now but when they were small my son played with Barbie dolls. He had action man but for quite a while he wanted his sisters Barbies. We let him do his own thing and everyone was happy. He grew out of the Barbie thing as it was just a phase for him.

    My only advice is not to push or encourage one way or the other. Nor would I discourage him. It could be a phase that he'll grow out of & I'd be reluctant to encourage him too much in case it is a phase. I'm happy for someone with experience to correct me on that. It's just what I would do.

    If it's not a phase he is has a great advantage having parents who love him enough to let him be who he is.


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    #8
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Does your son actually want to be a girl?

    I've an 8 yr old boy who loves looking feminine, makeup, clothes etc but he still identifies as male.

    Maybe contact a group like Belong to for guidance.


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    #9
    bpmurray
    Registered Users Posts: 1,275 ✭✭✭bpmurray


    I think at 10 years old, you're making much too much out of this. For a start the child has barely started to develop his sexuality, if at all, let alone identifying with another. I'd just chill & see where it leads. I certainly wouldn't encourage cross-dressing at this age, more because he'll have a lot of problems with his peers than anything else. If, in another 5 or 6 years, he has made a decision that he's trans, that's absolutely fine, but for now just relax.


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    #10
    jacksie66
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,988 ✭✭✭jacksie66


    This post has been deleted.


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    #11
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,815 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    jacksie66 wrote: »
    Oh ffs. Anyone can see the OP is a troll. Boards is getting very bad lately with them. Shelter them from the big bad world? Cmon lads.


    Mod

    Please report suspected trolling and dont back seat moderate

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #12
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,815 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra



    Mod

    The mods will decide if its trolling. Speculation about trolling is back seat modding and will just be deleted.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #13
    nbsr
    Registered Users Posts: 19 ✭nbsr


    fixie40 wrote: »
    Hi, I'm new here.
    I have taken my 10yr old son shopping today for girls clothes. He's delighted with life but I'm feeling really panicky. Both my husband and I are happy for him to be the person his is, but I'd like to shelter him from the big bad world. Have I jumped the gun? Should we have taken him to see someone first? We've been googling but there doesn't seem to be much support around both numbers I found only operate twice a month....

    Hi, t's wonderful that you seem supportive of them! But we need more of a back story, did she come out too you?


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    #14
    sexmag
    Registered Users Posts: 1,303 ✭✭✭sexmag


    nbsr wrote: »
    did she come out too you?

    Im opened minded and accepting of all people but being realistic a 10 year old hasnt even had sex education yet and wouldnt even know what coming out is, let alone be able to decide if they want to be another gender.

    By all means let the kid wear girls clothes if he wants, theres no harm in it but to label them as trans at such a young age is ridiculous and borderline child abuse if you allow them to go down a route of phydically changing their gender in my opinion, wait until theyre older, mid to late teens and if they still feel the same way then give them guidance and advice where to go about this.


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    #15
    baby and crumble
    Registered Users Posts: 8,512 ✭✭✭baby and crumble


    Reminder that here in the LGBT forum it is against charter to say that being trans isn’t real etc. if you don’t like that then post in another thread.


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    #16
    sexmag
    Registered Users Posts: 1,303 ✭✭✭sexmag


    baby and crumble wrote: »
    Reminder that here in the LGBT forum it is against charter to say that being trans isn’t real etc. if you don’t like that then post in another thread.

    i didnt say trans wasnt real, i said a child at 10 years old hasnt had sex education and doesnt understand body anatomy and if they label the child as trans when the child themselves dont even know what it is and then continue with any sort of body changing intervention would be child abuse in my opinion, i then offered advice on waiting until the child is older and can make the decision themselves.

    I dont believe that warrrents a red card, my post came from a place of compassion for the child and parent


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    #17
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,815 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    sexmag wrote: »
    i didnt say trans wasnt real, i said a child at 10 years old hasnt had sex education and doesnt understand body anatomy and if they label the child as trans when the child themselves dont even know what it is and then continue with any sort of body changing intervention would be child abuse in my opinion, i then offered advice on waiting until the child is older and can make the decision themselves


    Mod

    Dont post in the thread again. The op is looking for advice. Mentioning child abuse isnt acceptable.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #18
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    sexmag wrote: »
    i didnt say trans wasnt real, i said a child at 10 years old hasnt had sex education and doesnt understand body anatomy and if they label the child as trans when the child themselves dont even know what it is and then continue with any sort of body changing intervention would be child abuse in my opinion, i then offered advice on waiting until the child is older and can make the decision themselves.

    I dont believe that warrrents a red card, my post came from a place of compassion for the child and parent

    My 8 yr old has had sex education and he understands the concept of bodily autonomy. He is very secure in his gender identity and has been for years. You give children very little credit. And the OP is only asking about clothing, there is no mention of a full blown sex change. Cis children often like to experiment with clothing, it's not child abuse.


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    #19
    DeadHand
    Registered Users Posts: 2,720 ✭✭✭DeadHand


    You should instead be finding unisex or boy’s close to his liking, in my opinion. You’re doing your child a disservice socially and psychologically if you’re letting him run around in a dress. He’s too young to understand the pitfalls, be a parent and take control.

    It’s likely a phase he grows out of eventually. If it persists, you may want to consult a reputable child psychologist about possible gender dysphoria.

    Going forward, you need to monitor closely his internet usuage in the prepubescent years, there are some deeply sick people and organizations active online pushing an agenda to encourage confused children into Transgenderism. Sudden onset gender dysphoria has been identified as a psychic/social contagion: essentially vulnerable kids getting radicalized on the internet.

    Keep him away from that noise.

    Look up the “Peak Trans” thread on the After Hours section of this site- it’s a massive, startling eye opener.

    Having said all that, I’m sure your kid will be just fine- they go through these phases. Ignore the current fads and remember you are the PARENT and he is a BOY.

    Trust your instinct and our traditions, they’ve allowed us to produce generations of functional, contented adults. Consult your grandparents if they’re available, people who’ve been through it before know best.

    Once he turns 18 he can do as he wishes, until then it’s up to you protect him from dark influences and childish whims.


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    #20
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,815 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    DeadHand wrote: »
    You should instead be finding unisex or boy’s close to his liking, in my opinion. You’re doing your child a disservice socially and psychologically if you’re letting him run around in a dress. He’s too young to understand the pitfalls, be a parent and take control.

    It’s likely a phase he grows out of eventually. If it persists, you may want to consult a reputable child psychologist about possible gender dysphoria.

    Going forward, you need to monitor closely his internet usuage, there are some deeply sick people and organizations active online pushing an agenda to encourage confused children into Transgenderism. Sudden onset gender dysphoria has been identified as a psychic/social contagion: essentially vulnerable kids getting radicalized on the internet.

    Keep him away from that noise.

    Look up the “Peak Trans” thread on the After Hours section of this site- it’s a massive, startling eye opener.

    Having said all that, I’m sure your kid will be just fine- they go through these phases. Ignore the current fads and remember you are the PARENT and he is a BOY.

    Trust your instinct and our traditions, they’ve allowed us to produce generations of functional, contented adults. Consult your grandparents if they’re available, people who’ve been through it before know best.

    Once he turns 18 he can do as he wishes, until then it’s up to you protect him from dark influences and childish whims.

    Mod

    The op asked for advice. This isnt helpful advice. Dont post on the thread again

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #21
    iguana
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 12,909 Mod ✭✭✭✭iguana


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Does your son actually want to be a girl?

    I've an 8 yr old boy who loves looking feminine, makeup, clothes etc but he still identifies as male.

    I agree with this post. I have a 5 year old son and I do my best to avoid genderising anything that is socially and culturally gendered rather than biologically. Obviously he picks up on the fact that some things are aimed at boys and others at girls but he still likes what he likes and in our house that's fine. He knows Barbie, for example, is aimed at girls but still likes her because 'girls are cool.' He wears nail varnish sometimes because he likes having coloured nails. He chooses how long or short he wants his hair, it was long but now it's shorter as he finds it easier for the helmets he uses for sports and cycling. He has Sylvanian Family, Barbie and My Little Pony toys along with his Angry Birds, Spiderman and Hot Wheels. He has princess dresses along with everything else in his dress up box. He watches Barbie Life in the Dreamhouse and has an occasional tendency to 'Valspeak.' He was playing with a young girl recently and couldn't understand why her explanation for not liking superheroes was that she was a girl. As far as I can tell it means absolutely nothing more right now than he is someone who isn't going to let the fact that he has a penis close off half of the available toy and entertainment options available to him.

    Toys are toys and clothes are just clothes at that age. It may be that your child's true self is female. Or it may just be that he likes stuff that, for no biological reason, is not aimed at him. Let him like what he likes and let him know that despite social norms, the stuff he likes doesn't necessarily mean anything more than that. He's 10, so just let him express himself with no expectation beyond that. As he gets older, he might just relax into being a boy who likes some "girl" stuff. Or it may become obvious that he does identify as female. But don't let the stuff he likes dictate how he or you think he should be.


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    #22
    jbt123
    Registered Users Posts: 861 ✭✭✭jbt123


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    Mod

    The op asked for advice. This isnt helpful advice. Dont post on the thread again

    Isn't that what the poster has done?

    Or is it that you as a moderator just don't like the advice that has been offered?


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    #23
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,815 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    jbt123 wrote: »
    Isn't that what the poster has done?

    Or is it that you as a moderator just don't like the advice that has been offered?

    Mod

    As per the charter feedback on moderation is by pm only

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #24
    hots
    Registered Users Posts: 5,200 ✭✭✭hots


    Posts disappearing making it difficult to reply sensibly. My 2 cents, let the kid do what they want, but just be prepared for other kids to be dickheads if it's carrying on in public. Might be a phase or might be the start of exploring things, probably safest done at home though at that age.


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    #25
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    jbt123 wrote: »
    Isn't that what the poster has done?

    Or is it that you as a moderator just don't like the advice that has been offered?

    That posters advice isn't just unhelpful it's potentially dangerous. Telling a trans child to wait until they are 18 for treatment or support, that they are not the sex they identify as etc is just burying your head in the sand.

    No one has suggested treating the child as trans, the OP hasn't suggested the child is trans, the best advice has been to contact the support services available and take it from there. Ignoring an issue wont make it go away.


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    #26
    SterlingArcher
    Registered Users Posts: 2,767 ✭✭✭SterlingArcher


    sexmag wrote: »
    Im opened minded and accepting of all people but being realistic a 10 year old would of had (only basic sex education, regards basic biology), and wouldnt even know what coming out is, let alone be able to decide if they want to be another gender.

    By all means let the kid wear girls clothes if he wants, theres no harm in it but to label them as trans at such a young age is ridiculous, if you allow them to go down a route of phydically changing their gender in my opinion, wait until theyre older, mid to late teens and if they still feel the same way then give them guidance and advice where to go about this.

    I have edited this post. from my opinion it is exactly what this parent needs to hear.

    And to Baby Crumble, ridiculously insinuating somehow meant that trans doesn't exist.

    Then mentioned the charter.

    How does this forum discussion about a 10 year old trans child and your trans does exist forum charter. align with The law of the land that the law does not recognise a child of 10 as trans.


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    #27
    Cakes and Ale
    Registered Users Posts: 204 ✭✭Cakes and Ale


    eviltwin wrote: »
    My 8 yr old has had sex education and he understands the concept of bodily autonomy. He is very secure in his gender identity and has been for years. You give children very little credit. And the OP is only asking about clothing, there is no mention of a full blown sex change. Cis children often like to experiment with clothing, it's not child abuse.

    Can an eight-year old fully grasp the abstract concept of bodily autonomy? Especially as it is relevant to the actual body, and not just experimenting with clothing. To steal from a definition online: "Bodily autonomy means a person has control over whom or what uses their body, for what, and for how long. It's why you can't be forced to donate blood, tissue, or organs."


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    #28
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Cakes and Ale wrote: »
    Can an eight-year old fully grasp the abstract concept of bodily autonomy? Especially as it is relevant to the actual body, and not just experimenting with clothing. To steal from a definition online: "Bodily autonomy means a person has control over whom or what uses their body, for what, and for how long. It's why you can't be forced to donate blood, tissue, or organs."

    I think I know my son well enough to say he does. We would have discussed it a lot in the run up to the referendum on the 8th and in relation to choice in general. I also know that when my son says he's a boy that he's old enough and coherent enough to be sure of that so if he identified as a girl I'd support him. But wearing feminine clothing does not a girl make, I don't have concerns that my very male son wants to experiment with clothing or makeup. That's why I asked the OP to clarify. There is no suggestion his or her child is actually trans. Could just be a boy who likes to experiment.


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    #29
    m5ex9oqjawdg2i
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,221 ✭✭✭✭m5ex9oqjawdg2i


    Yes, I would say you have jumped the gun. Putting your boy in female clothes is more than likely going to be socially damaging to him. Kids are cruel. Does he fully understand transgender?

    A lot of young boys like to play with dolls and girls like to play with GI Joe (or whatever they are called these days), but that doesn't necessarily mean that the child is transgender. It's possibly just a phase.


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    #30
    baby and crumble
    Registered Users Posts: 8,512 ✭✭✭baby and crumble


    Mod hat on: Guys, please be aware if you are posting in this thread that unlike lots of other places on boards, the LGBT forum is place for LGBT folks, and their families and friends, to diccuss issues like this, safely and without non LGBT folks basically saying being trans or queer in any way is weird, or wrong, or insinuating that trans folks - regardless of age - shouldn't be able to transition.

    There is lots of evidence available, for those who care to search, that says enabling possible trans kids to explore their gender at a young age is a good thing. The OP did not talk about medical or hormonal transitioning, only about clothes.

    Frankly, if you break the charter, you will be sanctioned after warnings. Note in particular the following points in the charter:
    8. Abusive language that is homophobic/transphobic will not be tolerated and the persons posting it will be banned from the forum. Saying that transgender is a choice, saying that trans surgeries are cosmetic, or calling trans people "a man/woman who thinks they are a woman/man ", will result in an immediate infraction and/or ban, as these things aren't "opinions", they are falsehoods rooted in transphobia.

    9. Keep things civil. No name calling, personal abuse, unneccessary aggression, snide comments, or backseat moderating.

    14. This forum is welcome to everyone regardless of sexual orientation or gender identity to discuss LGBT issues. We do however insist that people who identify as lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender have the right to be treated with dignity and respect and that the forum be treated as a safe space for LGBT people. If you contribute to a thread you are expected to be willing to learn about the issues involved, and listen to what is said by members of the community/ies involved.


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    #31
    sexmag
    Registered Users Posts: 1,303 ✭✭✭sexmag


    baby and crumble wrote: »
    Mod hat on: Guys, please be aware if you are posting in this thread that unlike lots of other places on boards, the LGBT forum is place for LGBT folks, and their families and friends, to diccuss issues like this, safely and without non LGBT folks basically saying being trans or queer in any way is weird, or wrong, or insinuating that trans folks - regardless of age - shouldn't be able to transition.

    There is lots of evidence available, for those who care to search, that says enabling possible trans kids to explore their gender at a young age is a good thing. The OP did not talk about medical or hormonal transitioning, only about clothes.

    Frankly, if you break the charter, you will be sanctioned after warnings. Note in particular the following points in the charter:


    Seeing as joeytheparrets infraction of me commenting is gone i would like to chime in

    "Is My Child Transgender...
    At some point, all children will engage in behavior associated with different genders – girls will play with trucks, boys will play with dolls, girls will hate wearing dresses and boys will insist on wearing them – and gender nonconforming behavior does not necessarily mean that a child is transgender. That said, sometimes it does – with some children identifying as another gender than the one they were assigned by the time they are toddlers.

    The general rule for determining whether a child is transgender (rather than gender nonconforming or gender variant) is if the child is consistent, insistent, and persistent about their transgender identity. In other words, if your 4-year-old son wants to wear a dress or says he wants to be a girl once or twice, he probably is not transgender; but if your child who was assigned male at birth repeatedly insists over the course of several months that she is a girl, then she is probably transgender. Naturally, there are endless variations in the ways that children express themselves, so the best option if you think your child might be transgender is to consult a gender therapist    "

    https://www.hrc.org/resources/transgender-children-and-youth-understanding-the-basics

    Also to play devils advocate to baby and crumbles
    baby and crumble wrote: »
    There is lots of evidence available, for those who care to search, that says enabling possible trans kids to explore their gender at a young age is a good thing.

    https://www.psypost.org/2017/12/many-transgender-kids-grow-stay-trans-50499

    There are 12 such studies in all, and they all came to the very same conclusion: The majority of kids cease to feel transgender when they get older

    this is probably the best advice in that OP will need to give it time, if their child is only expressing these desires at this age and only for a little while the probably arent trans(also eviltwin said no one suggested the child is trans but the op did in the thread title)

    Also i and everyone else(i hope) is willing to learn and be accepting and open minded in this day and age, debating both sides is healthy for all involved to learn from however children are children and do need protecting from the world, we as adults and parents need to do that and to make sure no life changing decisions are made that they may or may not end up regretting, in ops scenario i see no wrong with the child wearing girls clothes ,however they would need to be aware of certain stigmas that may be associated with it, especially in places were the parent isnt there like with other kids


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