Wedge Curiosity

Spideog Rua

PARlance wrote: »

My wedge curiosity: why is there so much talk about the importance of "game improvement" irons but when it comes to individual wedges, they're essentially all blades.

You'll see lads with a set of GI irons and 2/3 Vokeys in the bag too. Shouldn't the wedges also be "game improvement"?

The ping glide and Cleveland cbx would be GI wedges. I have the CBX, and my wedge play is less **** because of it

Montgolfier

GreeBo wrote: »

They are not illegal.
However they *may* leave your grooves in a non-conforming way.
But you could do they exact same with a screwdriver or knife and it would be just as "illegal".
Re-Grooving your clubs is perfectly legal, as long as they still conform to the rules.

Can you buy a conforming groove gauge? I've never heard of anyone checking grooves. Its a bit like anchoring can't and won't be proved or attempted to be proved.

prawnsambo

GreeBo wrote: »

You can blame the manufactures who, in a search for fake distance, keep lowering the lofts on all your clubs so that the thing with a 7 stamped on the bottom now goes the same distance as the thing that had a 6 on it last year.
This pushed all the lofts down so a 3 or even 4 iron becomes too hard to hit for most golfers (shaft is too long for the little loft on it and they dont have the swingspeed)
This means you need to go buy some rescues to replace long irons.
At the other end your wedge is now equivalent to an old 8 or 9 iront, but your SW is still the same as it still needs to get you out of bunkers.
Now you need a gap wedge to fill this gap.
Anything about 56 is into Lob territory.

I think this is a bit of an exaggeration tbh. Here's a table of the lofts on TM Irons from 1999 to 2017. In that time, there's been a change of 4 degrees max and the lofts have actually weakened in the last few years. It's not an exhaustive list because with the amount of irons TM produce, that would be exhausting.

But to just take the PW, it's ranged from 44 up to 48 degrees and twenty years ago they were 45 degrees, much the same as they are now.

Model|Firesole|Supersteel|RAC MB|RAC LT|R7 XD|R7|Burner XD|Burner Plus|R9|Burner 2.0|R11|Rocketballz|Speedblade|RSi|PSi|P770
Year|1999|2000|2003|2004|2005|2006|2007|2008|2009|2010|2011|2012|2013|2014|2015|2017
1i|N/A|N/A|17|N/A|N/A|N/A|N/A|N/A|N/A|N/A|N/A|N/A|N/A|N/A|N/A|N/A
2i|N/A|19|19|18|N/A|18|N/A|N/A|N/A|N/A|N/A|N/A|N/A|N/A|N/A|N/A
3i|20.5|21|21|21|19|20|19|19|20|19|19|17.5|17|17|19|20.5
4i|23.5|24|24|24|21|22|21|22|22|21|21|20|20|20|21.5|23
5i|26.5|27|28|27|23|25|23|25|25|24|24|23|23|23|24.5|26
6i|29.5|30|32|31|26|28|26|28|28|27|28|26.5|26.5|26.5|27.5|29.5
7i|33|33|36|35|30|32|30|32|32|31|32|30.5|30.5|30.5|31.5|33
8i|37|37|40|39|34|36|34|36|36|35|36|35|34.5|34.5|35.5|37
9i|41|41|44|43|39|40|39|40|41|40|40|40|39.5|39|40.5|41.5
PW|45|45|48|47|44|45|44|45|46|45|45|45|45|44|45.5|46
AW|50|50|N/A|51|49|50|49|50|50|50|50|50|50|49.5|50.5|51
SW|55|55|N/A|55|54|55|54|55|55|55|55|55|55|55|55|N/A
LW|N/A|60|N/A|N/A|59|60|59|60|N/A|60|N/A|60|60|60|N/A|N/A

BigChap1759

It’s a total misconception that spin is caused by the grooves - regrooving will not make u spin the ball more.

Spin is caused by the ball gripping the surface of the club - the more balls you hit, the smoother the face becomes and the less spin you get. Tests with grooveless wedges get the most spin of any club but, if you get any grass or material between club and ball, then you’ll get a flyer or a bad contact which will yield unpredictable consequences

BigChap1759

BigChap1759 wrote: »

It’s a total misconception that spin is caused by the grooves - regrooving will not make u spin the ball more.

Spin is caused by the ball gripping the surface of the club - the more balls you hit, the smoother the face becomes and the less spin you get. Tests with grooveless wedges get the most spin of any club but, if you get any grass or material between club and ball, then you’ll get a flyer or a bad contact which will yield unpredictable consequences

Grooves are there to channel grass, mud etc away from the surface like a car tyre does with rain

Russman

BigChap1759 wrote: »

Grooves are there to channel grass, mud etc away from the surface like a car tyre does with rain

True, but if you try hit some pitches with an old non-conforming wedge from 8 years ago you get crazy stopping power compared to now. Just for the craic I bought a new, but several years old Callaway X Forged wedge about 3 years ago (it was in a clearance bag at the back of the shop) and its insane how much spin you can get with it, even out of a clean lie. Even opening up the face is hard as it just grips the ball and throws it out on a much lower trajectory than you'd normally expect. I definitely get much more spin with the non-conforming grooves than with a current brand new wedge. I'm glad its still legal for a few years yet !

Dbu

kod12 wrote: »

Was just going to ask how do you find golfbidder? some great deals there but wondered how much is the cost to ireland and how long does it take?

Find them great, delivery is a tenner and with UPS to Ireland. 2 days tracked

Most of the clubs I buy would be marked as a 6-7/10 condition wise, and are excellent quality when arrive. I would give clubs that they mark as 6/10 an 8-9 in most cases

BigChap1759

Russman wrote: »

True, but if you try hit some pitches with an old non-conforming wedge from 8 years ago you get crazy stopping power compared to now. Just for the craic I bought a new, but several years old Callaway X Forged wedge about 3 years ago (it was in a clearance bag at the back of the shop) and its insane how much spin you can get with it, even out of a clean lie. Even opening up the face is hard as it just grips the ball and throws it out on a much lower trajectory than you'd normally expect. I definitely get much more spin with the non-conforming grooves than with a current brand new wedge. I'm glad its still legal for a few years yet !

Any new wedge will get huge stopping power because the face is still relatively rough - you’d need to show me proof from spin rates etc

GreeBo

prawnsambo wrote: »

I think this is a bit of an exaggeration tbh. Here's a table of the lofts on TM Irons from 1999 to 2017. In that time, there's been a change of 4 degrees max and the lofts have actually weakened in the last few years. It's not an exhaustive list because with the amount of irons TM produce, that would be exhausting.

But to just take the PW, it's ranged from 44 up to 48 degrees and twenty years ago they were 45 degrees, much the same as they are now.

Model|Firesole|Supersteel|RAC MB|RAC LT|R7 XD|R7|Burner XD|Burner Plus|R9|Burner 2.0|R11|Rocketballz|Speedblade|RSi|PSi|P770
Year|1999|2000|2003|2004|2005|2006|2007|2008|2009|2010|2011|2012|2013|2014|2015|2017
1i|N/A|N/A|17|N/A|N/A|N/A|N/A|N/A|N/A|N/A|N/A|N/A|N/A|N/A|N/A|N/A
2i|N/A|19|19|18|N/A|18|N/A|N/A|N/A|N/A|N/A|N/A|N/A|N/A|N/A|N/A
3i|20.5|21|21|21|19|20|19|19|20|19|19|17.5|17|17|19|20.5
4i|23.5|24|24|24|21|22|21|22|22|21|21|20|20|20|21.5|23
5i|26.5|27|28|27|23|25|23|25|25|24|24|23|23|23|24.5|26
6i|29.5|30|32|31|26|28|26|28|28|27|28|26.5|26.5|26.5|27.5|29.5
7i|33|33|36|35|30|32|30|32|32|31|32|30.5|30.5|30.5|31.5|33
8i|37|37|40|39|34|36|34|36|36|35|36|35|34.5|34.5|35.5|37
9i|41|41|44|43|39|40|39|40|41|40|40|40|39.5|39|40.5|41.5
PW|45|45|48|47|44|45|44|45|46|45|45|45|45|44|45.5|46
AW|50|50|N/A|51|49|50|49|50|50|50|50|50|50|49.5|50.5|51
SW|55|55|N/A|55|54|55|54|55|55|55|55|55|55|55|55|N/A
LW|N/A|60|N/A|N/A|59|60|59|60|N/A|60|N/A|60|60|60|N/A|N/A

I dont think you are going back far enough!

"I can't begin to tell you how crucial gapping in wedges is," said Titleist master craftsman Bob Vokey.

"Most everyday players have little idea about the loft gaps with their wedges. They just take a pitching wedge and sand wedge and go.

"In the old days that was okay because most pitching wedges were around 51 degrees. But now they're 45 to 47 degrees while the sand wedge has stayed at 56. That's a two-plus club difference because now the pitching wedge is essentially the loft of a 9-iron."

Most instructors recommend you should have around four degrees of difference between all of your wedges.

That said, I am having difficulty proving it at the moment!

Montgolfier

GreeBo wrote: »

I dont think you are going back far enough!



That said, I am having difficulty proving it at the moment!

http://www.dmmoyle.com/MMOYLECUSTOMCLUBS/SetHistory.asp

Montgolfier

BigChap1759 wrote: »

It’s a total misconception that spin is caused by the grooves - regrooving will not make u spin the ball more.

Spin is caused by the ball gripping the surface of the club - the more balls you hit, the smoother the face becomes and the less spin you get. Tests with grooveless wedges get the most spin of any club but, if you get any grass or material between club and ball, then you’ll get a flyer or a bad contact which will yield unpredictable consequences

Got to say I didn't believe that at first but I just had a lesson with Padraig Dooley in cork and he mentioned that its the wear between the grooves that's important. So I'm getting a new wedge for sure.

Russman

BigChap1759 wrote: »

Any new wedge will get huge stopping power because the face is still relatively rough - you’d need to show me proof from spin rates etc

Well I have a new, current Callaway MD 4 bought less than a month ago, and the “old” X Forged which is basically still new as I don’t really use it much, same loft, and there is a huge difference in how they spin and play. Unfortunately I don’t have a trackman to measure numbers but the old one definitely spins more from my observation, it’s not even close.

BigChap1759

Russman wrote: »

Well I have a new, current Callaway MD 4 bought less than a month ago, and the “old” X Forged which is basically still new as I don’t really use it much, same loft, and there is a huge difference in how they spin and play. Unfortunately I don’t have a trackman to measure numbers but the old one definitely spins more from my observation, it’s not even close.

That’s as maybe but again I’d suggest it’s not really proof - they’re different models so there are a lot of potential variables at play with regards to the amount of spin you get, or seem to get

BigChap1759

In a similar vein I saw Harrington doing a q&a and he said he changed his wedges every 4/6 weeks to ensure he could always get the maximum spin!!!

Montgolfier

Anyone gone to low bounce for the hard ground? I had a few low semi bladed shots today seriously considering getting a low bounce option in the 56*

Russman

Montgolfier wrote: »

Anyone gone to low bounce for the hard ground? I had a few low semi bladed shots today seriously considering getting a low bounce option in the 56*

Sort of. I put a low bounce 60 in the bag a few weeks ago, having hardly ever used one before. It’s still really only for emergencies though if I’m honest.
I think in a 56 it’s more a case of just being a bit more careful with strike on the firm ground, but a good heel grind definitely helps imho.

GreeBo

I always play a 60 with 4* of bounce.
My 56 has 12* so Im covered for whatever situation.