Car ins company looking for pps number

Midnight Sundance

Hey,
I was wondering if anyone else has come across this?
I just paid a deposit for my car insurance with chill and they sent me out the forms to send back. They are looking for proof of my PPS number. I thought only social welfare and govt deptartments could look for that, I don’t even know if the guards can ask me??
I’m afraid now that they won’t insure me and I’ll lose my deposit if I don’t send them my pps but don’t think they have any need for my pps?

Reati

Midnight Sundance wrote: »

Hey,
I was wondering if anyone else has come across this?
I just paid a deposit for my car insurance with chill and they sent me out the forms to send back. They are looking for proof of my PPS number. I thought only social welfare and govt deptartments could look for that, I don’t even know if the guards can ask me??
I’m afraid now that they won’t insure me and I’ll lose my deposit if I don’t send them my pps but don’t think they have any need for my pps?

Do you ask them?

First Up

Midnight Sundance wrote: »

Hey,
I was wondering if anyone else has come across this?
I just paid a deposit for my car insurance with chill and they sent me out the forms to send back. They are looking for proof of my PPS number. I thought only social welfare and govt deptartments could look for that, I don’t even know if the guards can ask me??
I’m afraid now that they won’t insure me and I’ll lose my deposit if I don’t send them my pps but don’t think they have any need for my pps?

Any reason why you don't want to give it to them?

Stanford

Any valid reason why he should?

First Up

Stanford wrote: »

Any valid reason why he should?

To get insured would seem a pretty obvious one.

Atlantic Dawn

First Up wrote: »

Any reason why you don't want to give it to them?

Because I can't think of any valid reason one would be required to insure a car or be used to categorise the risk of someone taking out insurance.

Stanford

First Up wrote: »

To get insured would seem a pretty obvious one.

Why?

Damien360

First Up wrote: »

Stanford wrote: »

Any valid reason why he should?

To get insured would seem a pretty obvious one.

An insurance company has no legal right to request the identity of someone from their PPS number. Data protection would eat them alive. What possible reason have they to hold it. OP, are you sure they didn't ask for your drivers license number ? That they can use to attain your identity and your points status.

Stanford

Damien360 wrote: »

An insurance company has no legal right to request the identity of someone from their PPS number. Data protection would eat them alive. What possible reason have they to hold it. OP, are you sure they didn't ask for your drivers license number ? That they can use to attain your identity and your points status.

That makes sense, the PPS number is only for interaction with State services, I can't see how car insurance qualifies

Gonad

https://www.chill.ie/company/legal/central-credit-register-notice/

First Up

What's the downside of giving it to them?

Stanford

I would suggest that supplying your PPS number to the Credit Register is against all the principles of the new GDPR legislation recently enacted. The insurer or finance company can already access your credit history with your name,DOB and a recent address

Tefral

OP are you paying with an instalment plan or paying it out in full? If you are using an instalment it is essentially a line of credit and they require this info for a central register. It was something set up a few years ago but it's only enforced in the last 3 no the or so because they hadn't the register set up. Anyone that takes credit now over a certain value has to register on this with there PPS

Stanford

First Up wrote: »

What's the downside of giving it to them?

Its not so much the downside, its whether they are allowed to ask for it at all

koutoubia

Give the Data Protection office a ring on Monday and see what their take is on it.
Seems very very odd that a credit supplier is asking for a PPS number.

First Up

Feel free to argue the point but if you need to get a car insured and if you have a PPS number, I'm still waiting to hear a reason why you wouldn't give it.

Of course if you don't have a PPS number.....

Thinkingaboutit

Damien360 wrote: »

An insurance company has no legal right to request the identity of someone from their PPS number. Data protection would eat them alive. What possible reason have they to hold it. OP, are you sure they didn't ask for your drivers license number ? That they can use to attain your identity and your points status.

Yes. Even a government department will not seek it unless absolutely necessary.

Stanford

It seems OP may be correct, see the last page of the attached under Personal Information

Stanford

First Up wrote: »

Feel free to argue the point but if you need to get a car insured and if you have a PPS number, I'm still waiting to hear a reason why you wouldn't give it.

Of course if you don't have a PPS number.....

Please see my last post, I am surprised at this and was genuinely unaware of the need to provide a PPS no. when accessing credit until now

First Up

Sort it soon please because I don't want to have a shunt with some uninsured gobshyte whose principles over the more obscure reaches of data protection didn't allow him get his wretched banger insured.

dudara

There is a very limited list of organisations who can validly ask for your PPS. That list is detailed here

http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Personal-Public-Service-Number-Register-of-Users.aspx

Atlantic Dawn

Looks like Credit Unions request it too for loans...

Proof of your PPS Number - This must be in the form of an official document from the Revenue Commissioners or Department of Social and Family Affairs, which contains your name and PPS Number. ( Copy of your tax credits or your Social Services Card)

https://www.cscu.ie/Loan-Application

Midnight Sundance

First Up wrote: »

Sort it soon please because I don't want to have a shunt with some uninsured gobshyte whose principles over the more obscure reaches of data protection didn't allow him get his wretched banger insured.

Just for the record I rang them last week to pay my deposit which is pretty much almost a month ahead of when my insurance is due so no need to worry too much about an uninsured gobshyte on the roads. Also if you want to hand out you pps number to private companies willy nilly feel free to but I want to make sure that I’m not being a gobshyte and handing new over pretty private information if I don’t have to.

I opened the letter today and tried calling them
But they were closed which is why I tried here so I could have my ducks in order before I talk properly on Monday to them.

This is the first time in 15 years of driving that I’ve ever been asked for pps to get insured. I’ve always paid in installments and never had a problem with this.
I’ll give data reg a call on Monday to just check because it’s just new to me to give out this info when what I’ve read is only govt departments are required to look for it .

Thanks for the info guys

EPAndlee

I wonder is it to stop people getting the insurance disc and then not pay the rest of the monthly installments

Midnight Sundance

Damien360 wrote: »

An insurance company has no legal right to request the identity of someone from their PPS number. Data protection would eat them alive. What possible reason have they to hold it. OP, are you sure they didn't ask for your drivers license number ? That they can use to attain your identity and your points status.

100% sure it’s a copy of pps they want. Said in form of payslip or social welfare card etc.
They also ask for driving licence and no claims bonus letter which all make sense.
I guess I’m just confused because I’ve never been asked for pps before and have been driving over 15 years now, only once have I ever paid in full, i usually have to pay In installments as I never have enough free money to pay it in one go

Midnight Sundance

EPAndlee wrote: »

I wonder is it to stop people getting the insurance disc and then not pay the rest of the monthly installments

Perhaps but how would having my pps make a difference to that? They have my bank details, driving licence and proof of address.

Atlantic Dawn

I think it's more to register a loan/debt with Revenue so they can track all your financial dealings through your PPS number.

the_syco

Gonad wrote: »

https://www.chill.ie/company/legal/central-credit-register-notice/

For who didn't click the link;

The Central Credit Register is the new database for credit and personal information for loans of €500 or more.

So if you don't pay for the insurance up front, they seem to be legally obliged to get the info from you.

Heres Johnny

I work for a life insurance company and its our obligation to get PPS number for any financial product such as savings, investments or life insurance.
This is imposed on us by central bank and its part of anti money laundering guidelines. I'm not sure if it also applies to regulated general insurances too but it may do. Take it from me, they are not asking just to annoy you it must be an obligation.

ebbsy

There may be a few bob in this for the OP if his right have been beached.

I would be calling my solicitor Monday morning.

Del2005

ebbsy wrote: »

There may be a few bob in this for the OP if his right have been beached.

I would be calling my solicitor Monday morning.

You'd be better off reading the thread than calling a solicitor.

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

This is a joke right?

ebbsy wrote: »

There may be a few bob in this for the OP if his right have been beached.

I would be calling my solicitor Monday morning.

Reati

ebbsy wrote: »

There may be a few bob in this for the OP if his right have been beached.

I would be calling my solicitor Monday morning.

Cue theme to only fools and horses...

GM228

Heres Johnny wrote: »

I work for a life insurance company and its our obligation to get PPS number for any financial product such as savings, investments or life insurance.
This is imposed on us by central bank and its part of anti money laundering guidelines. I'm not sure if it also applies to regulated general insurances too but it may do. Take it from me, they are not asking just to annoy you it must be an obligation.

This is totally inaccurate, the Central Bank Guidlines absolutely do not require an obligation to ask for PPS number.

Have a look at Appendix 1 and you will see what the guidlines actually require of a financial institution. No part of the Criminal Justice (Money Laundering and Terrorist Financing) Act 2010 as amended requires a PPS number either.

What is required of a financial institution is to satisfy itself of a persons identity and address, how that is done is not specified, but, anybody (including a financial institution*) simply asking for a PPS number (other than where prescribed**) is commiting a criminal offence simpliciter under S262 (9) of the Social Welfare (Consolidation) Act 2005.

*An Post are exempt from this by virtue of the fact they are agents of the National Treasury Management Agency and so authorised to request a PPS number.

** Under R7 of the Return of Payments (Banks, Building Societies, Credit Unions and Savings Banks) Regulations 2008 financial institutions are only permitted to seek (and for you to provide) a PPS number when opening an account (however contrary to what financial institutions state it is not mandatory in order to open an account). R8 also states that a financial institution can not use a PPS number for any purpose other than a Revenue return.

The above deal with money laundering, account opening and Revenue returns only.


Turning to the OPs question now.

Some have correctly stated this is due to the new Central Credit Register established earlier this year under the provisions of the Credit Reporting Act 2013.

Under the provisions of the Act since January 1st when seeking "credit" of €500 or over you are by law required to provide your PPS number amongst other things to the provider of the credit who in turn must provide that information to the Central Bank. Any payments via Direct Debit are installments and fall under the heading of either deferred payment or a financial accommodation and so come under the scope of the 2013 Act:-

Credit Reporting Act 2013 wrote:

“credit” includes a loan, deferred payment or other form of financial accommodation

You must provide "personal information" for any application and that information is defined by S6 of the Act as:-

Credit Reporting Act 2013 wrote:

6. (1) In relation to a credit information subject who is an individual, the following is personal information—

(a) the individual’s forename and surname and any former surnames (including any alias);

(b) the individual’s mother’s birth surname;

(c) the individual’s date and place of birth;

(d) the individual’s address and previous addresses;

(e) the individual’s telephone number;

(f) the individual’s personal public service number (within the meaning ofsection 262 of the Social Welfare Consolidation Act 2005 ) and any other reference numbers allocated to the individual for the purposes of tax (whether in the State or any other country or territory);

(g) the individual’s employment status and, if employed or carrying on other activities, the individual’s occupation and the sector of the economy in which the individual is occupied.

Schedule 1 of the Credit Reporting Act 2013 (Section 11) (Provision of Information for Central Credit Register) Regulations 2016 also confirms the information you must provide:-

2016 Regulations wrote:

Schedule 1

Personal Information to be Provided, as Applicable

Personal Information in respect of individuals

Forename

Surname

Gender

Date of Birth

Address

Postal Code

Eircode

Personal Public Service Number

Other Tax Reference Numbers

Telephone Number

Sector of Economic Activity

Employment: Employment Status

Employment: Occupation Category

Institutional Sector — ESA Flag

Subject Status — Deceased Flag

So in short yes Chill/Close Brother are correct in asking you for your PPS number, they are legally required to ask and you are legally required to provide. If you refuse to give your PPS number then you get no credit.