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Why is it so hard to get a teaching job and why are teachers so underpaid

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    #32
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    rainbowtrout wrote: »
    Not everyone lives in Dublin. Also given that you need to have a deposit the poster could have bought something worth more than 100k. According to Daft there are currently 13 houses and 2 apartments for sale in the town I live in for under 125k. Houses are typically 3-4 bed. Town only has a population of 2500 so that's a considerable number of houses. It's a low salary but it goes further in some counties than others.

    You must be living either on the border or somewhere in the North west. The reality is for the rest of us living rurally is there isnt much rurally for 180k.


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    #33
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    Not my words, the US Army. despite perceptions they have put massive efforts of time and money into investing in Psychology since after WW1 when units were diversifying.

    And the value they place on degrees is related to the usefulness of that person to the army. I would imagine that a person who specialises in engineering or IT is probably of more use to them than say a primary school teacher.


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    #34
    yabadabado
    Registered Users Posts: 16,524 ✭✭✭✭yabadabado


    seems to be an error in the thread title,teachers are a lot of things but underpaid isnt one of them.


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    #35
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    You must be living either on the border or somewhere in the North west. The reality is for the rest of us living rurally is there isnt much rurally for 180k.

    Ah here, there are properties in every county in the country for less than 125k. So there are definitely properties for 180k. Maybe you are just looking for something that you can't afford.


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    #36
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    rainbowtrout wrote: »
    And the value they place on degrees is related to the usefulness of that person to the army. I would imagine that a person who specialises in engineering or IT is probably of more use to them than say a primary school teacher.

    I would have thought but the requirement to be a medic in the US army is higher to that needed for the Intelligence corps which came as a surprise to me. The guy who told me this was a medic in the army and his wife was in intelligence. This ranking of degrees was applicable to general intelligence. I knew this teacher who was boasting she had her master and had a high demonstration of statistical knowledge and what I studied for first year engineering in Maths would have eclipsed her knowledge on maths.


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    #37
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    I would have thought but the requirement to be a medic in the US army is higher to that needed for the Intelligence corps which came as a surprise to me. The guy who told me this was a medic in the army and his wife was in intelligence. This ranking of degrees was applicable to general intelligence. I knew this teacher who was boasting she had her master and had a high demonstration of statistical knowledge and what I studied for first year engineering in Maths would have eclipsed her knowledge on maths.

    And you are also basing your opinion on the assumption that the US Army is the be all and end all. It is one group who rank degrees in a particular order according to their needs.

    How do you know that you knew more maths than her? Were your qualifications even comparable? Honestly, your posts are getting worse and worse.


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    #38
    mtoutlemonde
    Registered Users Posts: 2,120 ✭✭✭mtoutlemonde


    Atoms for Peace wrote: »
    Young teachers should start a new union, the old guard sold them out to maintain their generous pensions.

    They still wouldn't attend meetings - NQTs/LPTs are waiting and expecting older teachers to do the work for them. I regularly attend union meetings and am yet to see an NQT/LPT present.


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    #39
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    rainbowtrout wrote: »
    And you are also basing your opinion on the assumption that the US Army is the be all and end all. It is one group who rank degrees in a particular order according to their needs.

    How do you know that you knew more maths than her? Were your qualifications even comparable? Honestly, your posts are getting worse and worse.

    The US army has many other functions other than infantry. They need many professions. It is not based on their needs it is based on capability. WE had an in depth discussion, it ended with her storming off in huff. She was one of those feminist who could have done anything on paper but just chose not to because" the misogynist, patriarchal system had kept her out of Science faculty". When I asked her did she apply for it.... she said No.

    Of course the qualification weren't comparable she was teaching History and IT (Office nothing serious). She had a masters in Education. In American universities you will find may will drop out of hard sciences and engineering to do education.


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    #40
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    evolving_doors wrote: »
    You know so many things skooterblue2, you must have had great teachers.

    Thank you. I had many teachers some really good some really bad. Some better than I deserved and some who should never entered the profession and would have been better off staying at home milking cows in Kerry.


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    #41
    man_no_plan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,018 ✭✭✭man_no_plan


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    The US army has many other functions other than infantry. They need many professions. It is not based on their needs it is based on capability. WE had an in depth discussion, it ended with her storming off in huff. She was one of those feminist who could have done anything on paper but just chose not to because" the misogynist, patriarchal system had kept her out of Science faculty". When I asked her did she apply for it.... she said No.

    Of course the qualification weren't comparable she was teaching History and IT (Office nothing serious). She had a masters in Education. In American universities you will find may will drop out of hard sciences and engineering to do education.

    The US army has nothing to do with teacher pay or ability to get jobs.

    There are plenty of teaching jobs available at the minute.

    Qualifying as a teacher doesn't entitle you to a job as a teacher any more that qualifying as a barrister entitles you to the lucrative cases.

    Starting out is tough in every career. Try getting a mortgage as an apprentice or self employed plumber.
    I don't think that house prices should be allowed to dictate salary. A shop worker? a council worker? Should they all be on 100k to afford a mortgage?

    Certainly the situation with unequal pay is unfair and undesirable on many fronts, your points about mortgages etc. Are nonsense, however, go back to 2005/6/7 when established permanent teachers couldn't afford houses then either.

    Lack of permanent jobs on appointment - not new.

    Difficulty gaining employment near home - not new.

    Looking at your school friends who work on the buildings earning more than you - not new.

    Blaming older teachers for everything - the only novel idea you have, and that's not that new either.


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    #42
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    man_no_plan wrote: »
    The US army has nothing to do with teacher pay or ability to get jobs.

    .

    My point was that a teaching qualification was much easier to achieve than Science degree and using the US Army to demonstrate it and the value placed upon it.


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    #43
    man_no_plan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,018 ✭✭✭man_no_plan


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    My point was that a teaching qualification was much easier to achieve than Science degree and using the US Army to demonstrate it and the value placed upon it.

    And?


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    #44
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    man_no_plan wrote: »
    And?

    Do I have to spell it out?


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    #45
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,153 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    I'm not clear what relevance the US Army has to teaching qualifications, or degrees in Ireland. A US B.Ed. would not allow you to teach in Ireland.


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    #46
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    spurious wrote: »
    I'm not clear what relevance the US Army has to teaching qualifications, or degrees in Ireland. A US B.Ed. would not allow you to teach in Ireland.

    Have you even followed the post. It basically says that to get a teaching degree you have to do less work than almost any other degree according to the US Army, who assess degrees for various roles. I have seen the material for thesis for a guy doing his masters in education and it is not even comparable to the amount of work or understanding needed for a Science/Engineering/IT but teacher feel fully entitled to think they are special and deserve certain social privileges.


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    #47
    emilymemily
    Registered Users Posts: 343 ✭✭emilymemily


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    Have you even followed the post. It basically says that to get a teaching degree you have to do less work than almost any other degree according to the US Army, who assess degrees for various roles. I have seen the material for thesis for a guy doing his masters in education and it is not even comparable to the amount of work or understanding needed for a Science/Engineering/IT but teacher feel fully entitled to think they are special and deserve certain social privileges.

    Don't feed the troll ^^


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    #48
    TheDriver
    Registered Users Posts: 12,423 ✭✭✭✭TheDriver


    I'm getting a blistering headache from the young vs experienced teacher chestnut again and US army is a new departure for this forum but anyways, let's behave and get back boys and girls to simples which is difficulty in getting jobs and underpaid nature. Any teacher bashing type trolling gets a card


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    #49
    TheDriver
    Registered Users Posts: 12,423 ✭✭✭✭TheDriver


    It's an annual thing about jobs but there are a good number of jobs out there plus a smaller pool of people going for them. There are many factors to explain why done people may unfortunately not get appointed to positions


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    #50
    mtoutlemonde
    Registered Users Posts: 2,120 ✭✭✭mtoutlemonde


    Two articles from Irish Times:

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/how-can-we-solve-the-teacher-supply-crisis-1.3561239?mode=amp

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/teacher-shortages-at-second-level-set-to-deepen-1.3560594?mode=amp&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&__twitter_impression=true


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    #51
    c.p.w.g.w
    Registered Users Posts: 4,994 ✭✭✭c.p.w.g.w


    evolving_doors wrote: »
    3.5x26 is about 100k.
    Where did you get a gaffe for that amt?

    Limerick city, 104,500, 1500sq/ft.
    35 mins walk to city center
    5 schools within walking distance
    3 major supermarkets within walking distance


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    #52
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    rainbowtrout wrote: »
    And you are also basing your opinion on the assumption that the US Army is the be all and end all. It is one group who rank degrees in a particular order according to their needs.

    How do you know that you knew more maths than her? Were your qualifications even comparable? Honestly, your posts are getting worse and worse.


    Didja hear about the Engineer with low self esteem?
    .
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    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    He thought he was just as good as everyone else.


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    #53
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    c.p.w.g.w wrote: »
    Limerick city, 104,500, 1500sq/ft.
    35 mins walk to city center
    5 schools within walking distance
    3 major supermarkets within walking distance

    Did you get permanent straight away?


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    #54
    c.p.w.g.w
    Registered Users Posts: 4,994 ✭✭✭c.p.w.g.w


    evolving_doors wrote: »
    Did you get permanent straight away?

    Oh sorry I'm not a teacher...I was giving an example that earning 30k a year doesn't rule out a mortgage like another poster implied.

    I work in an unskilled environment compared to teachers


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    #55
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    evolving_doors wrote: »
    Didja hear about the Engineer with low self esteem?
    .
    .
    He thought he was just as good as everyone else.

    Cheap shot when there is a gag order on me by the Mod. I would happily take you down a peg or two other wise.


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    #56
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    c.p.w.g.w wrote: »
    Oh sorry I'm not a teacher...I was giving an example that earning 30k a year doesn't rule out a mortgage like another poster implied.

    I work in an unskilled environment compared to teachers

    I suppose the thing the banks don't want is part time job for a mortgage. It is possible to earn 30k starting out on a full year alright.. but that is more than likely temporary.
    But don't get me wrong either. I wouldn't expect anyone to waltz into a mortgage and permanent job from the get go (unless youre a doctor maybe!). And most of the teachers here have all done the slog of non-permanent for years with zero guarantees.

    But getting over that initial hump now is an even bigger risk (depending on subjects of course)


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    #57
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    Cheap shot when there is a gag order on me by the Mod. I would happily take you down a peg or two other wise.

    Ya I missed that mod warning. It's just we often get the 'air of superiority' from engineers ...(and accountants too). Quite happy to tell us how underqualified we are, how easy our job is and how overpaid we are.... but strangely enough, they'd never have the wherewithal to throw their hat in the ring.

    Back in 2008-2010 it was a regular occurrence on this forum from engineers who thought they were entitled to waltz into a maths teaching job (without any qualifications) because ... you know... they were so much better at maths, and their engineering course had harder maths.


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    #58
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    evolving_doors wrote: »
    Ya I missed that mod warning. It's just we often get the 'air of superiority' from engineers ...(and accountants too). Quite happy to tell us how underqualified we are, how easy our job is and how overpaid we are.... but strangely enough, they'd never have the wherewithal to throw their hat in the ring.

    Back in 2008-2010 it was a regular occurrence on this forum from engineers who thought they were entitled to waltz into a maths teaching job (without any qualifications) because ... you know... they were so much better at maths, and their engineering course had harder maths.

    You think I never taught in my life? I was a member of the FCA and taught foot drills and the Bren, FN and GPMG. As an Adult I have taught low functioning autists (obviously a different style of teaching), I enjoyed it and you know how hard that is. I have also lectured to a TCM and a University class on Autism. Yeah it is easy to do, I have a lot to thank the FCA for, I see in third level college students mumbling through presentation, no public speaking skills and no eye contact.. So I do recognise teaching as a skill and communicating as I had a lecturer in Computing who was highly qualified and his class couldnt understand his lesson.

    This is my first day in this section I was unaware that Engineers where trying to cross over into mainstream teaching.


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    #59
    SligoBrewer
    Registered Users Posts: 2,632 ✭✭✭SligoBrewer


    Look, it's 1am on a Friday night.
    Step away from the keyboard and stop posting in a forum you have nothing to offer in.

    Lights out, private.


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    #60
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    You think I never taught in my life? I was a member of the FCA and taught foot drills and the Bren, FN and GPMG. As an Adult I have taught low functioning autists (obviously a different style of teaching), I enjoyed it and you know how hard that is. I have also lectured to a TCM and a University class on Autism. Yeah it is easy to do, I have a lot to thank the FCA for, I see in third level college students mumbling through presentation, no public speaking skills and no eye contact.. So I do recognise teaching as a skill and communicating as I had a lecturer in Computing who was highly qualified and his class couldnt understand his lesson.

    This is my first day in this section I was unaware that Engineers where trying to cross over into mainstream teaching.

    Lecturing is not teaching. If you had ever taught in a secondary school you'd know the difference. Actually, the vast majority of people don't have to teach to know the difference.


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    #61
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    SligoBrewer wrote: »
    Look, it's 1am on a Friday night.
    Step away from the keyboard and stop posting in a forum you have nothing to offer in.

    Lights out, private.

    Look at you with your big boots on, Mammy let you stay up on a school night.

    This is one of my issues with the teaching profession. When they get their authority challenged or facts questions they take it personally and react


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