So Michael D IS running again!

pixelburp

Distancing him from the specificity of the travellers as the target, coupled with other comments about the welfare state, Casey just comes off as culturally divorced from the realities of Irish society more than anything; perhaps betraying his perspective as a US resident over the last few years - not exactly a nation known for supplying the populace with safety nets or financial help. Again, there are conversations to be had about those on the fringes, but I don't think Casey's voice is either valid - or sincere.

Oh but I'm hearing how we're back to the Irish Diaspora social media: this is pie in the sky stuff, utter lunacy. Pork Barrel, to use the parlance of America; some waffle about ... something on the internet to let small Irish businesses hit a global audience & said diaspora. It's called the Internet Peter. We already have it thanks.

Facebook already do that - most small businesses use Facebook business profiles FFS. But spend a billion euro getting 'the facebooks' to build an Irish-only version of Facebook. Farcical stuff.

AGC

smurgen wrote: »

Disaster of a debate for MDH.Came off really badly.couldn't answer straight questions and seemed veey angry and unlikeable.

The first bit of actual debate just happened between the President and LNR and shows how far ahead he is.

Not once would any of the 3 dragons attempt to do what he just did or could they for that matter.

LNR also doing well.

Adamcp898

That's imagination not legislation babyyyyyyy

Eric Cartman

I have to say , regardless of what you think, Casey comig from rank last to definite third with a fair shot at second place is an astounding upturn for a presidential campaign

AGC

McCullagh is quite poor. Pointless line of questioning about tax.

batgoat

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I have to say , regardless of what you think, Casey comig from rank last to definite third with a fair shot at second place is an astounding upturn for a presidential campaign

Not exactly when the top candidates were polling about 50% behind the lead candidate. A ten percent gain is not impressive...

SimonTemplar

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I have to say , regardless of what you think, Casey comig from rank last to definite third with a fair shot at second place is an astounding upturn for a presidential campaign

And this is based on pretty much one single issue. It is a good barometer of how the general public feels about this issue in question.

FrancieBrady

AGC wrote: »

McCullagh is quite poor. Pointless line of questioning about tax.

I think he is very good actually. No waffling allowed.

Sycamore Tree

MDH is the only gentleman on this debate.

A vote for any one of those dragon is a wasted vote.

LNR is doing ok as is Freeman.

This is a woeful 'debate'

MDH romps home with the dragons wishing they had never ran.

FrancieBrady

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I have to say , regardless of what you think, Casey comig from rank last to definite third with a fair shot at second place is an astounding upturn for a presidential campaign

If you don't know that bookies manipulate the odds to shake a few more quid from the gullible then don't be a gambler.
The rush of money going on Casey because of a rush of blood to the head is easily manipulated.
Casey won't win but Paddy Power will. Oldest trick in the book.

An Ciarraioch

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I have to say , regardless of what you think, Casey comig from rank last to definite third with a fair shot at second place is an astounding upturn for a presidential campaign

Learning that he doesn't pay any tax here may have derailed his momentum, however.

Adamcp898

Finally dropped the 'marginalised' line I see.

alaimacerc

Adamcp898 wrote: »

Finally dropped the 'marginalised' line I see.

Could give it another outing on the Virgin Three/TV1 debate, if she's stuck for something to say?

alaimacerc

SimonTemplar wrote: »

And this is based on pretty much one single issue. It is a good barometer of how the general public feels about this issue in question.

Or how 10% of them feel, perhaps. If there was a quota in it, TDs up and down the land would be running on it. (Or a Casey-grade version of it, rather than the yesbutnobutnotinmybackyardbecausereasons take they actually often do.)

alaimacerc

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I have to say , regardless of what you think, Casey comig from rank last to definite third with a fair shot at second place is an astounding upturn for a presidential campaign

Don't be wandering through too many bookies with your wallet flapping open. Third-favourite at 33/1 with the fourth-favoured at 40/1 is by no means "definite third".

Hurrache

If it was your first debate, and knew nothing of Higgins, I don't think tonight would be persuasive in his favour.

Tell me how

smurgen wrote: »

Disaster of a debate for MDH.Came off really badly.couldn't answer straight questions and seemed veey angry and unlikeable.

Not the debate I was watching. All others showed signs of improvement since their first debate through practice if nothing else but Michael D still far and away the most presidential of them all.

I'm not surprised and don't blame him for getting annoyed at Peter for putting ridiculous topics in to the public domain.

Loafing Oaf

Tell me how wrote: »

I'm not surprised and don't blame him for getting annoyed at Peter for putting ridiculous topics in to the public domain.

I'll have you know presidential dog-grooming expenses are among the burning issues of our day.

Tell me how

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

I'll have you know presidential dog-grooming expenses are among the burning issues of our day.

I'm more concerned how he thinks the video he made about it is of acceptable quality for a candidate for the office of the President of Ireland.

Eric Cartman

SimonTemplar wrote: »

And this is based on pretty much one single issue. It is a good barometer of how the general public feels about this issue in question.

Well it shows how important it is to people. Since the comments I have probably discussed caseys comments with about 70-80 people , the responses ranged from 'ahh we know it but he shouldnt say it' to 'bang on' .

Everyone agrees in every other regard he's useless , which shows just how influential that one opinion is.

alaimacerc

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Well it shows how important it is to people.

Judging by the polls, not that important to that many people.

Since the comments I have probably discussed caseys comments with about 70-80 people , the responses ranged from 'ahh we know it but he shouldnt say it' to 'bang on' .

You might need to find a classier local.

CrabRevolution

I'd never in a million years vote for Casey but I can see how he hit a rich vein with the traveller comments.

To be told that the criminality, anti social behaviour, lack of engagement with regular society and education etc. aren't things travellers should be accountable for is bad enough. But the line generally spouted by the media that it's actually our fault as law abiding, tax paying citizens and that we should cherish travellers just goes down like a cup of cold sick.

No matter how hard pavee point try, they never have and never will get the general public to buy the "all travellers are victims of settled people" narrative, even though the media have bought it.

You can't just convince a bar owner that the travellers who smashed his pub up after a funeral are actually the real victims and that he should reevaluate his views. You can't tell a farmer "Travellers are hard done by" and he'll understand and forget that his fuel was robbed from the tank. You won't convince my local shop owner that the children who swarm in from the halting site across the road, grab armfuls of sweets and drink and run out are actually lovely lads who'll contribute so much to society in future.

A hospital I once worked on was having electrical works done for a weekend and had a standby generator on site as a backup in case the ESB went. The heavy electrical cables meant to carry the power were robbed by travellers during the night (the Gardaí recovered them,chopped to bits, from the site soon after). Had the ESB gone, the hospital would have been without electricity with no backup. How could you possibly convince any patient, doctor or relative there that in the long run the travellers are actually the victims?

What do people base their views on?

1. Their own real life experience like the thousands of events similar to the above described.

2. Yet another press release from pavee point presenting a rosy picture which nobody recognises.

It's No. 1 for most people,and that's the part of Casey's opportunistic, populist campaign which is resonating with people.

EdgeCase

What you can say though is that the role of the president has nothing at all to do with government policies relating to the travelling community.

smurgen

Tell me how wrote: »

smurgen wrote: »

Disaster of a debate for MDH.Came off really badly.couldn't answer straight questions and seemed veey angry and unlikeable.

Not the debate I was watching. All others showed signs of improvement since their first debate through practice if nothing else but Michael D still far and away the most presidential of them all.

I'm not surprised and don't blame him for getting annoyed at Peter for putting ridiculous topics in to the public domain.

What like how ye uses tye governemt jet to travel an hour down the road? See MDH says the right things and does the wrong things.talk is cheap but his actions aren't.he then comes across as shrill,like an angry teacher when pulled up on it.as if talking about money is beneath him.his attitude stinks.

blackwhite

Another car crash of a debate.

Freeman came across as not knowing what she was at half the time.
Duffy was his usual bland self.
Casey, as likenevery appearance, seems to just be a stream of consciousness without much thought having gone into what’s going to be spited next.
LNR generally came across quite well, but again gave the hints of either not understanding the constitutional restrictions, or being determined to put party politics above the role of president. Being caught out telling porkies about her wages, and then trying to repeatedly insist she took “the average wage” before half-arsedly backing down won’t do her any favours next time out either.
Gallagher again came across as arrogant, thinking himself Presidential in his own head and seemingly believing that every word he uttters is some grand pronouncement.
MDH generally came across ok, but let his temper show a few times. I think the only way he was ever going to be in trouble was if he was goaded enough into really losing his temper and possibly lose the “presidential” decorum vibe he puts out so well., Whilst there was the odd flash of annoyance, nothing approaching the old-fashioned MDH of his TD years.

Overall, can’t see it having much impact on the final poll other than 1-2% here or there

Pussyhands

Another 7 years is going to take it's toll on MDH.

Hurrache

alaimacerc wrote: »

Judging by the polls, not that important to that many people.



You might need to find a classier local.

In fairness though I've heard it been discussed, and often in agreement with him, by those at high level management positions throughout the country, so it resonates across the spectrum.

The polls did not take into account what he said as far as I recall.

blanch152

CrabRevolution wrote: »

I'd never in a million years vote for Casey but I can see how he hit a rich vein with the traveller comments.

To be told that the criminality, anti social behaviour, lack of engagement with regular society and education etc. aren't things travellers should be accountable for is bad enough. But the line generally spouted by the media that it's actually our fault as law abiding, tax paying citizens and that we should cherish travellers just goes down like a cup of cold sick.

No matter how hard pavee point try, they never have and never will get the general public to buy the "all travellers are victims of settled people" narrative, even though the media have bought it.

You can't just convince a bar owner that the travellers who smashed his pub up after a funeral are actually the real victims and that he should reevaluate his views. You can't tell a farmer "Travellers are hard done by" and he'll understand and forget that his fuel was robbed from the tank. You won't convince my local shop owner that the children who swarm in from the halting site across the road, grab armfuls of sweets and drink and run out are actually lovely lads who'll contribute so much to society in future.

A hospital I once worked on was having electrical works done for a weekend and had a standby generator on site as a backup in case the ESB went. The heavy electrical cables meant to carry the power were robbed by travellers during the night (the Gardaí recovered them,chopped to bits, from the site soon after). Had the ESB gone, the hospital would have been without electricity with no backup. How could you possibly convince any patient, doctor or relative there that in the long run the travellers are actually the victims?

What do people base their views on?

1. Their own real life experience like the thousands of events similar to the above described.

2. Yet another press release from pavee point presenting a rosy picture which nobody recognises.

It's No. 1 for most people,and that's the part of Casey's opportunistic, populist campaign which is resonating with people.

Traveller culture is far removed from its origins.

The travelling community, moving from place to place, living sustainably off the land, providing an effective recycling service by repairing and trading in goods, is nothing like what we see today - the criminality, lack of education and environmental destruction, which is as much a caricature of real Traveller culture as plastic leprachauns are caricatures of Irish culture.

c68zapdsm5i1ru

Journal.ie are conducting an on line poll. At the moment MDH is on 43%, Peter Casey on 33% and the others clustered between 1 and 7% (Gavin Duffy on 1%).

Tell me how

blanch152 wrote:

The travelling community, moving from place to place, living sustainably off the land, providing an effective recycling service by repairing and trading in goods, is nothing like what we see today - the criminality, lack of education and environmental destruction, which is as much a caricature of real Traveller culture as plastic leprachauns are caricatures of Irish culture.

I suppose that's the crux of the matter, the retention of that culturally distinct grouping is desirable I'm terms of it being part of our heritage.

Some could argue that travellers moving from place to place offering to fix roofs or put down driveways is similar in practice to what their ancestors did but people's view on such practices seems to be that they work is very shoddy and/or the property is being "cased" while they are around.

There are truths on both sides of the argument in granting them ethnic status.