Waterford developments

Max Powers

Harry Palmr wrote: »

They've done so well for us in the past it's hard to argue against.

You dont think outsiders can do anything do you.in general, look at larger positives that happened over last 20 or so years, practically all happened under cullen or coffey....insiders. look at where the power is and decisions made; government parties, cabinet, taoiseach...all insiders. still, a lot of people prefer the table bangers who say what they like but get little to nothing done..outsiders.

Max Powers

Harry Palmr wrote: »

They've done so well for us in the past it's hard to argue against.

You dont think outsiders can do anything do you.in general, look at larger positives that happened over last 20 or so years, practically all happened under cullen or coffey....insiders. look at where the power is and decisions made; government parties, cabinet, taoiseach...all insiders. still, a lot of people prefer the table bangers who say what they like but get little to nothing done..outsiders.

Harry Palmr

So embedded are the heads of dept "against" Waterford it's a loosing battle either way. I say against, I don't think the permanent government even thinks about us really.

Anyway to other stuff - Gallaghers Pharmacy has been sold for 600k, the rent is 65k PA. Also the presbytery on Manor Hill has not sold not even a bid made which is alarming. 5.55 ac for guide price of €2.3m should have been of interest to someone, the scope for a multi faceted development is obvious.

BBM77

Harry Palmr wrote: »

So embedded are the heads of dept "against" Waterford it's a loosing battle either way. I say against, I don't think the permanent government even thinks about us really.

Anyway to other stuff - Gallaghers Pharmacy has been sold for 600k, the rent is 65k PA. Also the presbytery on Manor Hill has not sold not even a bid made which is alarming. 5.55 ac for guide price of €2.3m should have been of interest to someone, the scope for a multi faceted development is obvious.

Don’t think that site would be of massive interest to developers. It’s a hilly site, with a large listed building and a graveyard. When everything is dealt with there probably would not be much profit in it.

Max Powers

Harry Palmr wrote: »

So embedded are the heads of dept "against" Waterford it's a loosing battle either way. I say against, I don't think the permanent government even thinks about us really.

Anyway to other stuff - Gallaghers Pharmacy has been sold for 600k, the rent is 65k PA. Also the presbytery on Manor Hill has not sold not even a bid made which is alarming. 5.55 ac for guide price of €2.3m should have been of interest to someone, the scope for a multi faceted development is obvious.

The heads dont think of us because again, we dont have the insiders asking them, telling them, putting our case, whatever needs to be done, etc etc

Max Powers

Harry Palmr wrote: »

So embedded are the heads of dept "against" Waterford it's a loosing battle either way. I say against, I don't think the permanent government even thinks about us really.

Anyway to other stuff - Gallaghers Pharmacy has been sold for 600k, the rent is 65k PA. Also the presbytery on Manor Hill has not sold not even a bid made which is alarming. 5.55 ac for guide price of €2.3m should have been of interest to someone, the scope for a multi faceted development is obvious.

The heads dont think of us because again, we dont have the insiders asking them, telling them, putting our case, whatever needs to be done, etc etc

hardybuck

Max Powers wrote: »

The heads dont think of us because again, we dont have the insiders asking them, telling them, putting our case, whatever needs to be done, etc etc

How do you know that?

Wanderer78

Max Powers wrote: »

The heads dont think of us because again, we dont have the insiders asking them, telling them, putting our case, whatever needs to be done, etc etc

never under estimate the power of the outsider, it could be argued that it was largely outsider influence that has lead us to our current situation regarding irish water

Max Powers

Wanderer78 wrote: »

never under estimate the power of the outsider, it could be argued that it was largely outsider influence that has lead us to our current situation regarding irish water

What has Irish water got do with strategies to improve Waterford's clout .My contention is outsiders in general wont help our situation.

Wanderer78

Max Powers wrote: »

What has Irish water got do with strategies to improve Waterford's clout.

dont worry about it

Harry Palmr

Nothing at all.

vriesmays

https://www.rte.ie/news/2019/0927/1078625-waterford-hospice-movement/

Wanderer78

vriesmays wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/2019/0927/1078625-waterford-hospice-movement/

again, austerity rocks!

hardybuck

Wanderer78 wrote: »

again, austerity rocks!

Austerity stopped about 5 or 6 years ago. HSE got about €900m extra to play with this year and it's still not enough for them. Shambles.

Harry Palmr

HSE is the bucket with the hole that will never be plugged.

Muttley79

https://www.facebook.com/1391610774448304/posts/2433407746935263/
This does not look good for Waterford in general.this could be the nail in the coffin for us as a city

Dum_Dum

Current crane count = zero


Cumulative crane count over the past ten years = 1*


(* for the Dunmore Wing** at University College Cork Hospital - Waterford Annex***)
(** built with local money, unstaffed and unopened by the HSE)
(*** functioning mortuary pending)

Harry Palmr

We're led by donkeys.

Some goodish news re the Glass site at Kilbarry

https://www.wlrfm.com/2019/10/09/planning-permission-granted-for-former-waterford-crystal-site-refurb/

The former Waterford Crystal offices and showrooms on the Cork Road in Waterford are to be totally refurbished.

Ibrook Ltd has received planning permission from Waterford Council to carry out the work.

The three-story office block will have the cladding and glazing replaced and will be extended by 920 square metres.

A food court and retail unit will be provided in a section of the former showrooms.

The old single-storey restaurant on the site will be demolished.

hardybuck

Dum_Dum wrote: »

Current crane count = zero


Cumulative crane count over the past ten years = 1*


(* for the Dunmore Wing** at University College Cork Hospital - Waterford Annex***)
(** built with local money, unstaffed and unopened by the HSE)
(*** functioning mortuary pending)

Pretty sure here were cranes at St Patrick's Hospital with the recent upgrades?

Anyway, Irish people have a mad obsession with crane counting. While it does indicate development - it doesn't indicate wealth. I was in Bordeaux a few weeks ago, feck all cranes but dripping with wealth.

hardybuck

Muttley79 wrote: »

https://www.facebook.com/1391610774448304/posts/2433407746935263/
This does not look good for Waterford in general.this could be the nail in the coffin for us as a city

Is the bee in Eddie's bonnet that a different terminology has been used for some of the regional towns, both in the South East and in all of the other regions?

And he felt Waterford IT and Waterford Airport should have been mentioned prominently but weren't?

If that's all he has to be worrying about Waterford will be absolutely fine.

Waterford IT will not be a University anytime soon, nor will the airport be a huge driver employment in the region.

vriesmays

This week's N&S.

We expose a Government document – supposedly their economic Masterplan for the southern region – for catastrophically failing Waterford.

The proposed transfer of Plunkett Railway station onto the North Quay has skyrocketed to an estimated €50 million.

Deiseen

hardybuck wrote: »

Pretty sure here were cranes at St Patrick's Hospital with the recent upgrades?

Anyway, Irish people have a mad obsession with crane counting. While it does indicate development - it doesn't indicate wealth. I was in Bordeaux a few weeks ago, feck all cranes but dripping with wealth.

All the cranes left last month, left all the wealth

hardybuck

Deiseen wrote: »

All the cranes left last month, left all the wealth

What?

Cake Man

Harry Palmr wrote: »

We're led by donkeys.

Some goodish news re the Glass site at Kilbarry

https://www.wlrfm.com/2019/10/09/planning-permission-granted-for-former-waterford-crystal-site-refurb/

It's in a good location which will draw in plenty from the surrounding areas of Ballybeg, Larchville, Lisduggan, Templars Hall etc. as well as the student traffic from nearby WIT. I'll probably get criticised for saying it but I can't help think this will just turn into a Lisduggan Shopping Centre 2.0.

Stopitwillya

Cake Man wrote: »

Harry Palmr wrote: »

We're led by donkeys.

Some goodish news re the Glass site at Kilbarry

https://www.wlrfm.com/2019/10/09/planning-permission-granted-for-former-waterford-crystal-site-refurb/

It's in a good location which will draw in plenty from the surrounding areas of Ballybeg, Larchville, Lisduggan, Templars Hall etc. as well as the student traffic from nearby WIT. I'll probably get criticised for saying it but I can't help think this will just turn into a Lisduggan Shopping Centre 2.0.

Please tell us how on earth is Frisby going to turn planning permission for offices into a Lisduggan Shopping Centre 2.0.

Dum_Dum

hardybuck wrote: »

Pretty sure here were cranes at St Patrick's Hospital with the recent upgrades?

Anyway, Irish people have a mad obsession with crane counting. While it does indicate development - it doesn't indicate wealth. I was in Bordeaux a few weeks ago, feck all cranes but dripping with wealth.

I quite like the crane count. Cuts through bull$****; like we are the third richest region in Europe:

Southern part of Ireland third richest in EU but west lags behind

"Residents of Cork, Limerick and Waterford are living in the third-richest region across the European Union, according to a new report from Eurostat.

This puts them behind the residents of part of London and Luxembourg but ahead of those in Dublin, which ranked in fifth place."

hardybuck

Dum_Dum wrote: »

I quite like the crane count. Cuts through bull$****; like we are the third richest region in Europe:

Southern part of Ireland third richest in EU but west lags behind

"Residents of Cork, Limerick and Waterford are living in the third-richest region across the European Union, according to a new report from Eurostat.

This puts them behind the residents of part of London and Luxembourg but ahead of those in Dublin, which ranked in fifth place."

The crane count in Dublin is funded by international finance taking advantage of historically low interest rates. It is not an indication of wealth.

Also - that article refers to GDP, whereas a better indicator in Ireland is modified Gross National Income - GNI*.

Harry Palmr

It's an indication of something actually happening and that's what matters.

hardybuck

Harry Palmr wrote: »

It's an indication of something actually happening and that's what matters.

It's no doubt an indication of something happening - but what is a better question.

If you go to Kenya today, you'll see a massive amount of development - mostly Chinese industries. Are the people there befitting from it - not really no going by the poverty levels.

Apparently employment in the south east rose by 21% between end 2012 and 2018 - 32,400 extra jobs. Unemployment rates are lower than the EU average but slightly higher than other parts of Ireland.

These are indicators I'd be following more closely.

Harry Palmr

What the feck? Has Wanderer78 hacked your account?

Okay let's have no development of the city and recceed into dusty obscurity - we're already halfway there.

BBM77

Dum_Dum wrote: »

I quite like the crane count. Cuts through bull$****; like we are the third richest region in Europe:

Southern part of Ireland third richest in EU but west lags behind

"Residents of Cork, Limerick and Waterford are living in the third-richest region across the European Union, according to a new report from Eurostat.

This puts them behind the residents of part of London and Luxembourg but ahead of those in Dublin, which ranked in fifth place."

We may be rich is statistical terms however in terms of government funding and a return on the tax generated by this wealth we are far from rich. As I said in another post €150 million in around 0.2% of government spending for 2019. To put that into perspective if your salary is €40000, 0.2% of that is €80. That is how small an amount of money €150 million is in government terms. And they will not give it for the north quays project spread over a few years.

hardybuck

Harry Palmr wrote: »

What the feck? Has Wanderer78 hacked your account?

Okay let's have no development of the city and recceed into dusty obscurity.

I'm saying that there is an obsession with crane counting, and while it indicates activity no doubt, it doesn't indicate wealth.

hardybuck

BBM77 wrote: »

We may be rich is statistical terms however in terms of government funding and a return on the tax generated by this wealth we are far from rich. As I said in another post €150 million in around 0.2% of government spending for 2019. To put that into perspective if your salary is €40000, 0.2% of that is €80. That is how small an amount of money €150 million is in government terms. And they will not give it for the north quays project spread over a few years.

That's why GNI* is a better indicator for Ireland, as we have a misleadingly high GDP which distorts things.

To put things into perspective for you, if the amount of tax you pay is €40,000, the amount the country spends on Social Protection is €10,800, Education is €5,600, Health is €9,200.

Then our debt costs you another €4,950, so you've got only €9,450 of your money left to pay for the Justice Sector, Transport, Agriculture and everything else. If you have €80 left at the end you'll be doing well.

Harry Palmr

I'm sure you'll apply that logic to the North Quays if that ever actually starts eh?

BBM77

hardybuck wrote: »

That's why GNI* is a better indicator for Ireland, as we have a misleadingly high GDP which distorts things.

To put things into perspective for you, if the amount of tax you pay is €40,000, the amount the country spends on Social Protection is €10,800, Education is €5,600, Health is €9,200.

Then our debt costs you another €4,950, so you've got only €9,450 of your money left to pay for the Justice Sector, Transport, Agriculture and everything else. If you have €80 left at the end you'll be doing well.

Don’t know what the patronising “To put things into perspective for you” is about. I was only trying to make the point of how little €150 million is in government terms.

Also, in your answer you failed to factor in that the government gets much of what they spend back on taxation. Much of spending is cyclical for the government. Specially on infrastructure such as what is being asked for on the North Quays project.

hardybuck

BBM77 wrote: »

Don’t know what the patronising “To put things into perspective for you” is about. I was only trying to make the point of how little €150 million is in government terms.

And I was giving you an indication about how tight things are.

Just to follow up on the point you've added later, in my answer I haven't failed to do anything, rather I've responded to your simplistic overview of expenditure, in which you've demonstrated what 0.2% of €40,000 amounts to. In doing so I've taken that €40,000 you identified, and demonstrated how it'd be carved up the way government expenditure is currently allocated.

Ireland has indeed had a history of running pro-cyclical budgets, which goes against Keynesian macroeconomic principles. There would be an argument towards the Government expenditure becoming countercyclical right now, and reducing expenditure to accumulate savings when the economy is still growing.

Capital expenditure over time has been subject to significant volatility. In the boom time era, 1996-2003, 2005-2007 and 2009-2018, capital expenditure has been pro-cyclical - and that has caused different degrees of trouble.

BBM77

hardybuck wrote: »

And I was giving you an indication about how tight things are.

Just to follow up on the point you've added later, in my answer I haven't failed to do anything, rather I've responded to your simplistic overview of expenditure, in which you've demonstrated what 0.2% of €40,000 amounts to. In doing so I've taken that €40,000 you identified, and demonstrated how it'd be carved up the way government expenditure is currently allocated.

Ireland has indeed had a history of running pro-cyclical budgets, which goes against Keynesian macroeconomic principles. There would be an argument towards the Government expenditure becoming countercyclical right now, and reducing expenditure to accumulate savings when the economy is still growing.

Capital expenditure over time has been subject to significant volatility. In the boom time era, 1996-2003, 2005-2007 and 2009-2018, capital expenditure has been pro-cyclical - and that has caused different degrees of trouble.

I was not giving an overview of expenditure, simplistic or otherwise. It’s frankly bizarre that you think from what I wrote I was. Don’t know why you feel the need to use patronising words like simplistic. As I said I was only trying to make the point of how little €150 million is in government terms, which is a completely valid point to make. You are defending the indefensible here. The government has stated a surplus of €600 million this year. There is the money to pay for the North Quay.

mooseknunkle

Cake Man wrote: »

It's in a good location which will draw in plenty from the surrounding areas of Ballybeg, Larchville, Lisduggan, Templars Hall etc. as well as the student traffic from nearby WIT. I'll probably get criticised for saying it but I can't help think this will just turn into a Lisduggan Shopping Centre 2.0.

How will offices and a cafe be turned into lisduggan shopping centre 2.0

I dont think theres going to be a dealz or gadget shop going into it..

hardybuck

BBM77 wrote: »

I was not giving an overview of expenditure, simplistic or otherwise. It’s frankly bizarre that you think from what I wrote I was. Don’t know why you feel the need to use patronising words like simplistic. As I said I was only trying to make the point of how little €150 million is in government terms, which is a completely valid point to make. You are defending the indefensible here. The government has stated a surplus of €600 million this year. There is the money to pay for the North Quay.

Ah look we're on different wavelengths obviously. It's small in relation to everything the State spends money on, but it's still a lot of money that this project would already have if there was a compelling need for it.

DLS_75

Any update on Jurys?

Dum_Dum

DLS_75 wrote: »

Any update on Jurys?

I have no information. But surely some news is due - 14 years closed. Nothing is more symbolic of the decline of Waterford than that derelict building looming over the city centre.

Road-Hog

Dum_Dum wrote: »

I have no information. But surely some news is due - 14 years closed. Nothing is more symbolic of the decline of Waterford than that derelict building looming over the city centre.

I think such questions should be put to the owner of Waterford castle....he was/is/will be the owner of this property once the legal arguments are concluded (maybe they are already) He has ambitious plans for the site but To date don’t think a planning application has been submitted.

DLS_75

He promised great things for Waterford castle but did nothing. There was a front page story recently about billion euro developments at bilberry and nothing since.

Road-Hog

DLS_75 wrote: »

He promised great things for Waterford castle but did nothing. There was a front page story recently about billion euro developments at bilberry and nothing since.

Yes remember that headline alright.....haven’t been in castle since he took it over....I take it this man is well experienced in the hotel management field...hard to find anything online about his ‘CV’.........could it be that he will just get planning for the sites and then ‘flip them’ on......time will tell ultimately.....has the castle had much investment in recent years...?

DLS_75

Very little as far as I know and they have removed more than one top class chef. Me thinks he’s waiting for the north quays to start so he can make a tidy profit. When you think about it, his plans actually including keeping the current structure. Surely that wasn’t even possible

vriesmays

Dum_Dum wrote: »

I have no information. But surely some news is due - 14 years closed. Nothing is more symbolic of the decline of Waterford than that derelict building looming over the city centre.

What about this:
https://waterford-news.ie/2019/08/29/waterford-leads-the-way-for-direct-provision/

azimuth17

Dum_Dum wrote: »

I have no information. But surely some news is due - 14 years closed. Nothing is more symbolic of the decline of Waterford than that derelict building looming over the city centre.

Not sure about the decline bit.....but was there not news during the year that the Tracy Hotel Group had lost a High Court case about the sale of the Ardree to the present owners? Tracy's claimed adverse possession and that they had purchased the hotel. They are appealing the High Court decision. Nothing can happen until that delay , which has taken years to solve, is completed?

debok

azimuth17 wrote: »

Not sure about the decline bit.....but was there not news during the year that the Tracy Hotel Group had lost a High Court case about the sale of the Ardree to the present owners? Tracy's claimed adverse possession and that they had purchased the hotel. They are appealing the High Court decision. Nothing can happen until that delay , which has taken years to solve, is completed?

I don't think that is completed yet.

Max Powers

debok wrote: »

I don't think that is completed yet.

I think you are right.
The tower hotel extension was approved also but Monica Leech appealed it to courts I think because of a property claim on part of the land.it is mad to think that these issues of who owns what come up.

Harry Palmr

Monica Leech?! Jasus there's a name Joe Duffy won't want to hear again.