A/R/Tist in the Spotlight - Swashbuckler

Kellygirl

Another question I thought of earlier:

What sort of warm ups and cool downs do you do alongside your running?

Swashbuckler

aquinn wrote:

What an enjoyable read but you're ****listed for not reading my log, it doesn't matter it isn't up to date.

Oops. I knew I'd offend someone with that comment. Haha.

aquinn wrote:

Where does the boards name come from?

It's a stupid username to be honest but I've accepted it at this stage. Simply, someone said to me "you're a right Swashbuckler Noonan". Was setting up my Boards account the next day and that stupid name was all I could come up with. Lol

Swashbuckler

Kellygirl wrote:

What sort of warm ups and cool downs do you do alongside your running?

Loving all the questions. Cheers lads and ladies. For my sessions I simply do roughly two miles warmup at easy pace. Some Drills have been included lately at the end of my warmup. Cooldown usually consists of a mile or two easy running similar to the warmup. Nothing fancy. I'm usually pretty tight for time given most of my running is at work on my lunchbreak.

Lazare

Hi Swashbuckler, cheers for jumping down the well. First off kudos for being such a sound dude on here, I really like your upbeat style of posting and the friendly way you give great advice.

1. What are your thoughts on fasted running, running on empty?

2. If you were to organise and manage the perfect 10k race, what would that look like? You need to appeal to runners like yourself and the masses.

3. Is it true that blindboy is well known in Limerick, as in the lad himself?

4. Do you listen to his podcast?

5. What's the largest animal you could throw over a crossbar. No cheating by swinging it by the tail.

Swashbuckler

Lazare wrote:

Hi Swashbuckler, cheers for jumping down the well. First off kudos for being such a sound dude on here, I really like your upbeat style of posting and the friendly way you give great advice.

That's very kind of you to say. Thanks!

Lazare wrote:

1. What are your thoughts on fasted running, running on empty?

I do it every weekend. All my weekend runs are usually fasted. Not usually during the week as I have breakfast at work and then run at 12.30pm ish. Personally I do it because food doesn't agree with my running unless I eat at least 3 hours prior to running. I'm sure there are physiological reasons people do it but that applies more to marathoners than me.

Lazare wrote:

2. If you were to organise and manage the perfect 10k race, what would that look like? You need to appeal to runners like yourself and the masses.

I'll be honest I'd love to see a 5k style track event in Munster like the Day of Irish pbs. Not enough events like that around. Something a little different that caters to all levels, gives everyone a taste of track, has a big family event built around it. Pacers, drink, food, music. Sounds great. Its hard to differentiate yourself these days coz there are so so so many races around. They all follow similar format. Chip timed, medals, food after. The event like the one on in July sounds like a great event. So yeah that's what I'd do. Haha. Copy and paste. Everyone should support that event. Unfortunately it falls on my birthday weekend at the end of my holidays and no way am I leaving the family on the rare time I get off work.

Lazare wrote:

3. Is it true that blindboy is well known in Limerick, as in the lad himself?

I know of him but never met the lad. Depends what circles you move in I guess. I wouldnt really be in tune with who's who in Limerick apart from some of the ridiculously good runners.

Lazare wrote:

4. Do you listen to his podcast?

Nope. I don't really listen to podcasts but I'm sure when I move to 22 mile long runs I'll dip my toes. Haha

Lazare wrote:

5. What's the largest animal you could throw over a crossbar. No cheating by swinging it by the tail.

Haha this question comes up a bit. I think if he was willing to work with me, a kangaroo.

Lazare

Haha, great answers, cheers.

Duanington

Great choice!

You've made fantastic progress in the last 6\7 months, what specifically have you changed about your training? I know L has had an impact but in terms of the things you find yourself doing differently now to a year ago - what are they?

Favourite post session meal?
Favourite time of the day to run?
Favourite conditions to run sessions\race in?
Where do you feel you have most potential to improve? ( 3k, 5k, 10k, 10 mile, half ?)
You've obviously toyed with the idea of a marathon recently, what is it that swayed you away from the idea? Did you feel it would impact your medium term goals too much?
How does your better half put up with "you and your f*cking running" ?
AMK says he'll kick your ass over the marathon when you eventually do one, what do you say to that? ( ok, I didn't hear him say it but I'd say he will say it at some stage)
Cross country...excited or terrified?

Swashbuckler

Duanington wrote:

You've made fantastic progress in the last 6\7 months, what specifically have you changed about your training? I know L has had an impact but in terms of the things you find yourself doing differently now to a year ago - what are they?

Duanington wrote:

Favourite post session meal? Favourite time of the day to run? Favourite conditions to run sessions\race in? Where do you feel you have most potential to improve? ( 3k, 5k, 10k, 10 mile, half ?) You've obviously toyed with the idea of a marathon recently, what is it that swayed you away from the idea? Did you feel it would impact your medium term goals too much? How does your better half put up with "you and your f*cking running" ? AMK says he'll kick your ass over the marathon when you eventually do one, what do you say to that? ( ok, I didn't hear him say it but I'd say he will say it at some stage) Cross country...excited or terrified?

Haha great questions.

1. So many things to be honest. In terms of lifestyle I drink less and eat less crap. I was boozing most weekends. And usually in the chipper at 2am after and eating crap the next day. I used to run to burn off the ****e from the weekend. Now I run to compete. Still guilty of poorish nutrition though.
I was also overtraining. All sessions were at max effort. At one stage last year my typical week was running a 5 mile tempo mile, a session of usually longer intervals (1k to a mile) at max effort. A long run up to 16ish miles at times and easy runs at 7.30 pace. Sometimes a parkrun race too. Way too hard. That has changed completely with Luke.
In terms of the changes with Luke, more controlled sessions, easier easy runs, more shorter intervals, everything progressed and built sensibly. Lots and lots of strength building in terms of slower paces which helped massively. Very structured. More racing. Smarter.

Favourite post session meal is boring. I run all sessions at work so usually a mixed salad with chicken or a sandwich. Not enough probably! Later that evening I love a good spag bol.

Favourite time of day to run is 1pm. It's just the sweet spot for me. Tough in the heat though. Morning sessions are tough.

Favourite conditions to race - About ten degrees. Cloudy. Not a puff of breeze. Flat! Haha

Most potential to improve. That's a good question. I think the 10k maybe. I think I can get to low to mid thirties. Being super optimistic I'd love to get to the 30 or 31.xx range. Gains are minimal in the 5k. It takes so much more effort to run 30s quicker. The half is a distance I know I'll enjoy going forward. It's probably where I need the most work though. Endurance is probably an area where I need the most improvement.

For the marathon I had a chat with Luke. There's a few things that we agreed on so it was an easy decision. We both feel there's more to be gained at 5k/10k this year. Also, you're right, Luke knows the 5k and 10k are where I want to improve the most. There's no ambiguity there. We're on the same page. I really didn't want to start into a big block of marathon training and my 10k times to suffer. But I wouldn't rule out a marathon next year. What worries me a little is all the marathon lads I know seem to pick up various niggles. I don't see that so much with the shorter stuff.

The missus is OK with my running. There's only one run a week impacting her and I make sure I make it work around the family. She enjoys the races too. Very supportive. I'm pretty sure she won't be standing in a field in October though. Haha.

AMK would definitely kick my ass in the marathon. Id have him in the 10k though. Haha

XC - shi*ting a brick. It's gonna be tough as hell but I need it.

Great questions.

RacoonQueen

What's your favourite flavour of crisps?

Swashbuckler

RacoonQueen wrote:

What's your favourite flavour of crisps?

Chilli Heatwave Doritos!

diego_b

Good stuff going on in the thread here!

1. Have you had many running injuries to date, how have you managed them?

2. Do you do any S&C work?

3. What's the best "running" thing about Ballyheigue? Plenty of hills and views for training I think.

4. What races abroad have you looked at?

5. Does thrash talk ever thrown about at the start of race at the top end?

6. What's the most annoying thing someone has ever done to you in a race?

7. I like that you want to run into old age (as do I), but are you going to get involved in track stuff? (The county/provincial championship days are good fun and competitive at the masters level, not sure what age you are)

8. What's the most you've ever left it out there in a race and did you wonder afterwards was it worth it?

9. When you started running did you do a couch to 5K plan or how did you get going?

10. If you could win DCM but no one would ever know about it (world wide mind blank, record/result erased) or else finish second and everyone know about it what would you chose?

Swashbuckler

diego_b wrote:

1. Have you had many running injuries to date, how have you managed them?

None, fingers crossed. The closest I'd say I've been to a running injury was shooting pains down my calf muscle. They haven't happened since Luke took on my training. Tells me I was probably overloading. I've also lost weight in the last year so could have been a nerve compression thing. All the scans showed up nothing.

diego_b wrote:

2. Do you do any S&C work?

I don't at the moment but down the line if Luke thinks it's worthwhile and we have the time, I'd be more than happy to add it. I guess the Drills I do are indirect strength and conditioning.

diego_b wrote:

3. What's the best "running" thing about Ballyheigue? Plenty of hills and views for training I think.

Jesus the hills are a curse in a way haha. If I'm not doing a session I'm meant to be running easy. Easy isn't easy on those hills. The best thing is definitely the views.

diego_b wrote:

4. What races abroad have you looked at?

I haven't to be honest although in the long term I'd be curious about the grand slam of marathons.

diego_b wrote:

5. Does thrash talk ever thrown about at the start of race at the top end?

I'm not as top end as you'd think. I've been top end in some soft races this year. I've never heard anything bad said. I wouldn't be surprised if it went on out on the road though.

diego_b wrote:

6. What's the most annoying thing someone has ever done to you in a race?

Beat me... Haha....
The only thing I can think of is people pushing themselves up with the top runners and running snails pace to start. One specific example was a guy with a dog on a leash in the Limerick 6 miler. I refuse to run that anymore. It's messy. Typically I position myself in races where I think I belong. In Adare I sat about four fours back. In Borrisoleigh, three rows. In Tuamgraney I went front row.

diego_b wrote:

7. I like that you want to run into old age (as do I), but are you going to get involved in track stuff? (The county/provincial championship days are good fun and competitive at the masters level, not sure what age you are)

Yep I'd like to dip my toes into everything. Cross country, track and road. Absolutely. I'm 38 next week!

diego_b wrote:

8. What's the most you've ever left it out there in a race and did you wonder afterwards was it worth it?

A couple of weeks ago in Borrisoleigh isn't far off the most fecked I've been after a race. It's a good question you ask. I've often wondered do the top lads do it. I doubt they do. I get the impression the best racers are the ones who are managing effort level reasonably well until the last km or so and then kick on. I'm usually pushing close to the limit from 5km onwards in the 10k race.
It's always worth it. I've never ever regretted being fecked after a race. The hormones it sends around the body afterwards are great haha. I had three races in June and I was fecked after each and I'm feeling it a bit now so it does need to be managed.

diego_b wrote:

9. When you started running did you do a couch to 5K plan or how did you get going?

Nope. Ive always been interested in fitness. Several ankle twists from soccer sent me to the road and running in straight lines.

diego_b wrote:

10. If you could win DCM but no one would ever know about it (world wide mind blank, record/result erased) or else finish second and everyone know about it what would you chose?

First. No doubt. Honestly don't care about recognition. I'd go back the following year and win it again and everyone would know about that one. Haha

OOnegative

https://beerlovermarathon.be/

An idea for a foreign race!!!

diego_b

Thanks for the answers, especially good answer and attitude on number 10!
When saying about wondering is it worth it, I know a former Olympian who's had a knee replacement later in their life and I'd wonder for the pain and discomfort of that (plus an absolute end to running in their late 50's/early 60's) was it worth it. I don't think I could possibly ask the person the question but the sacrifices both physical (and possibly in personal life) at times for everyone as they step up the levels are something that can come to the fore.

Also that 6 miler in Limerick is an absolute sham, the only reason why it is 6 and not 6.2 mile is that to have an AAI certified race for 10K competitors have to be over 18s. Absolute money grab to get the kids in to try get around almost 10K.

p.s. Don't forget Banna 10K for August Bank Holiday weekend....pb course and organized by my club St. Brendan's AC.

Swashbuckler

diego_b wrote:

Thanks for the answers, especially good answer and attitude on number 10! When saying about wondering is it worth it, I know a former Olympian who's had a knee replacement later in their life and I'd wonder for the pain and discomfort of that (plus an absolute end to running in their late 50's/early 60's) was it worth it. I don't think I could possibly ask the person the question but the sacrifices both physical (and possibly in personal life) at times for everyone as they step up the levels are something that can come to the fore.

Well in terms of the physical, leaving it almost all out there (we never leave it all out there) I don't think has any impact on my physical wellbeing. I wouldn't be pushing myself to the limits of injury if you know what I mean. In terms of the personal sacrifices I don't honestly think I make any sacrifices yet. In time we'll see. But at the moment most of my running is at work. No impact on family apart from when we're on holidays. Lol

diego_b wrote:

p.s. Don't forget Banna 10K for August Bank Holiday weekend....pb course and organized by my club St. Brendan's AC.

Killarney 10k in July 28th!

Swashbuckler

OOnegative wrote:

An idea for a foreign race!!!

I can hardly manage staying awake after three pints these days nevermind a marathon plus pints. Haha

diego_b

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Well in terms of the physical, leaving it almost all out there (we never leave it all out there) I don't think has any impact on my physical wellbeing. I wouldn't be pushing myself to the limits of injury if you know what I mean. In terms of the personal sacrifices I don't honestly think I make any sacrifices yet. In time we'll see. But at the moment most of my running is at work. No impact on family apart from when we're on holidays. Lol


Killarney 10k in July 28th!

True, I know my wife has on occasion told me to go for a run or get my training done earlier in the day as it helps lessen the impact and keeps me a happy bunny. That's generally to the fore the last month of marathon training when 2-3 hour runs have to be done.

Ah yes, I've done the half there a few times but missing it due to a wedding this year. You have a good week there to recover with the Banna run on Sunday 5th. There's a nice long Strava segment there from Ardfert village to Banna cross you could well get up the ranks on...and of course main course of the race! Usually have a few good club runners at the top end in it.

Swashbuckler

diego_b wrote:

Ah yes, I've done the half there a few times but missing it due to a wedding this year. You have a good week there to recover with the Banna run on Sunday 5th. There's a nice long Strava segment there from Ardfert village to Banna cross you could well get up the ranks on...and of course main course of the race! Usually have a few good club runners at the top end in it.

I can't honestly say I've ever looked at a Strava segment to be honest. Given the month I've had I'll be tapering back a little on races the next two months for sure. I'm feeling it lately. But thanks!

ariana`

Really interesting stuff so far... Thanks for answering my earlier questions. A few more if you don't mind

- At amateur level in running how much is talent and how much is hard work & determination?

- Would you recommend to anyone to go down the coaching route as a way to progress or do you think it's a natural progression when a runner hits a stage in their running?

- Do you think you're capable of being 'tough to be kind'? You are always very encouraging and pretty sound to be honest, if you saw something someone really making a b*lls of their training/racing in their log/strava would you be able to be fairly harsh if you thought they needed to hear it?

Kellygirl

ariana` wrote: »

- Do you think you're capable of being 'tough to be kind'? You are always very encouraging and pretty sound to be honest, if you saw something someone really making a b*lls of their training/racing in their log/strava would you be able to be fairly harsh if you thought they needed to hear it?

Ooh that’s a good question.

Swashbuckler

ariana` wrote:

Really interesting stuff so far... Thanks for answering my earlier questions. A few more if you don't mind

ariana` wrote:

- At amateur level in running how much is talent and how much is hard work & determination?

Absolutely don't mind. Ask anything you like. Good questions.

ariana` wrote:

- Would you recommend to anyone to go down the coaching route as a way to progress or do you think it's a natural progression when a runner hits a stage in their running?

I think it depends on your personality. Definitely not a natural progression. My instinct is always to pass on any knowledge I can and I love helping people especially with running coz I've such an interest. But I know plenty of people who are top runners and have no interest in coaching. I don't coach by the way unless you count that one buddy I have that I've worked with at various points in the last year. It's something I'd like to do more of. Finding the time would be the tricky part. Coaching people will only help your own running. The more you coach the more you (should) read, the more you learn, the more you can apply to your own training.

ariana` wrote:

- Do you think you're capable of being 'tough to be kind'? You are always very encouraging and pretty sound to be honest, if you saw something someone really making a b*lls of their training/racing in their log/strava would you be able to be fairly harsh if you thought they needed to hear it?

I've almost fallen out with my buddy a couple of times. Haha. It's hard to convince someone what "easy" means.
But we're close so we can be very direct with each other with no issues. I come across that way on Boards or Strava for a few reasons. You guys genuinely want to improve and will listen. I'm also not really responsible for your well being. Just some tips here and there. If I'm coaching someone it would drive me mad if they keep ignoring the advice. I'd also feel some sense of responsibility for their health so I'd need to be harsher when advice isn't followed. I've had several conversations with my buddy about pacing and effort levels. It sunk in eventually. Haha. I have plenty of people I know on Strava making a complete and utter balls of their training but its not my business to give advice when none is asked for.

By the way Luke has never given be a bollicking (yet). Haha

Swashbuckler

ariana` wrote:

- At amateur level in running how much is talent and how much is hard work & determination?

Missed this one. Honestly (and people might disagree) I believe at our level it's 100% hard work and determination. I don't think talent comes into it to be a good runner.

skyblue46

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Missed this one. Honestly (and people might disagree) I believe at our level it's 100% hard work and determination. I don't think talent comes into it to be a good runner.

Controversial! Haha. Don't you think hard work and determination will improve everyone but by how much depends on nature? Start 100 non runners of the same age and gender on an identical plan, assume all are dedicated....do you not think there will be a wide range of performance as a result?

Murph_D

skyblue46 wrote: »

Controversial! Haha. Don't you think hard work and determination will improve everyone but by how much depends on nature? Start 100 non runners of the same age and gender on an identical plan, assume all are dedicated....do you not think there will be a wide range of performance as a result?

Agree. “Talent” = genetics.

Q - How do you manage pain (if you haven’t answered this yet?) Do you have a particular technique or just pure stubbornness, 00negative-style?

Swashbuckler

skyblue46 wrote:

Controversial! Haha. Don't you think hard work and determination will improve everyone but by how much depends on nature? Start 100 non runners of the same age and gender on an identical plan, assume all are dedicated....do you not think there will be a wide range of performance as a result?

Haha it's a fair question. There's a major flaw in your rationale though. The same plan for 100 runners will yield wildly different results because each runner will have his own individual weaknesses and strengths that aren't addressed by a plan. However I get your point. I think some will be more dedicated than others and I think other factors are more important than "talent" at our level Mindset is a big thing. If you take 100 runners of the same mindset and same dedication and tailor their training to their own individual needs I think you'll get similar results. I think most of us could get to the same point with hard work. But to get beyond that takes talent.

Swashbuckler

Murph_D wrote:

Agree. “Talent†= genetics.

And I think genetics has less of a role for people at our level. We could all get to 35 minute 10ks. No exception.

Murph_D wrote:

Q - How do you manage pain (if you haven’t answered this yet?) Do you have a particular technique or just pure stubbornness, 00negative-style?

Definitely stubbornness plays a part. A big part. I keep reminding myself how hard I've worked. How all those mornings in the winter are for nothing if I stop. I try as many positive reinforcements as I can and what works for one race might not for another. For example in Borrisoleigh I convinced myself that I had driven that distance and left the missus and baba at home and didn't want to be telling her I stopped. Previously it was remembering a specific tough session I had got through to get me up some hills. Anything atall that words. Even positive chatter with myself. Bigging myself up in a way and talking to the body. You get used to battling through and mostly you draw on previous tough experiences in a race and remind yourself you didn't stop then. I'll never forget Borrisoleigh because I kept going and I'll use that in the future.

skyblue46

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Haha it's a fair question. There's a major flaw in your rationale though. The same plan for 100 runners will yield wildly different results because each runner will have his own individual weaknesses and strengths that aren't addressed by a plan. However I get your point. I think some will be more dedicated than others and I think other factors are more important than "talent" at our level Mindset is a big thing. If you take 100 runners of the same mindset and same dedication and tailor their training to their own individual needs I think you'll get similar results. I think most of us could get to the same point with hard work. But to get beyond that takes talent.

Haha...the nerve of you! A major flaw!!! Pffftttt. Talent & hard work and tailored plan = Ronaldo/ Messi. Hard work and tailored plan = Jordan Henderson! No way can you disregard talent/ genetics. I prefer Murphs comment on another thread that any reasonably fit and prepared man should find a 4 hour marathon doable than the idea that there's a 35 min 10k there for the taking :pac:

Swashbuckler

skyblue46 wrote:

Haha...the nerve of you! A major flaw!!! Pffftttt. Talent & hard work and tailored plan = Ronaldo/ Messi. Hard work and tailored plan = Jordan Henderson! No way can you disregard talent/ genetics. I prefer Murphs comment on another thread that any reasonably fit and prepared man should find a 4 hour marathon doable than the idea that there's a 35 min 10k there for the taking

Haha you realise I mean at our level. Not elite level marathon runners. I don't think talent plays any part for the likes of me and you. We can reach the same level with hard work and dedication. With an abundance of talent we could have been Olympic athletes.

Just to reinforce my point, ariana asked at amateur level not elite. Messi and Henderson are professionals. I don't think talent plays much part at our level. We can all reach a reasonable standard (amateur) through hard work and dedication. I love a bit of debate. Haha

skyblue46

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Haha you realise I mean at our level. Not elite level marathon runners. I don't think talent plays any part for the likes of me and you. We can reach the same level with hard work and dedication. With an abundance of talent we could have been Olympic athletes.

Just to reinforce my point, ariana asked at amateur level not elite. Messi and Henderson are professionals. I don't think talent plays much part at our level. We can all reach a reasonable standard (amateur) through hard work and dedication. I love a bit of debate. Haha

I think talent/ genetic ability plays a massive part. I'm convinced it's why some hit a glass ceiling despite lots of training while others can run faster times off little or no training. Like kids in school who have no aptitude for soccer/ music/ art/ athletics despite a burning desire and lots of training/ grinds/ classes to be better ...it carries on into adulthood.

Swashbuckler

skyblue46 wrote:

I think talent/ genetic ability plays a massive part. I'm convinced it's why some hit a glass ceiling despite lots of training while others can run faster times off little or no training. Like kids in school who have no aptitude for soccer/ music/ art/ athletics despite a burning desire and lots of training/ grinds/ classes to be better ...it carries on into adulthood.

I'll put it to you this way (I've a feeling we won't agree on this regardlesa) but I believe most people with the proper attitude and dedication and hard work and correct training and several other factors outside of genetics can reach a reasonably high standard. Genetics will push someone on to another level. Some might take longer than others but not because of talent... In my humble option. Lol. Genetics or talent is too easy an excuse not to work hard to push yourself beyond your considered limits. Ah shur I'd never reach that level. I'm not Kenyan so why bother trying. Lol.

skyblue46

Swashbuckler wrote: »

I'll put it to you this way (I've a feeling we won't agree on this regardlesa) but I believe most people with the proper attitude and dedication and hard work and correct training and several other factors outside of genetics can reach a reasonably high standard. Genetics will push someone on to another level. Some might take longer than others but not because of talent... In my humble option. Lol. Genetics or talent is too easy an excuse not to work hard to push yourself beyond your considered limits. Ah shur I'd never reach that level. I'm not Kenyan so why bother trying. Lol.

No I don't think we'll ever agree on it to be honest. In no way am I suggesting that it's an excuse to not try to get the best from oneself. But neither should someone who doesn't reach a reasonably high standard feel that they have trained inadequately or had too little desire. It just may not be in their capability range. For example my parents spent endless amounts on lessons because I desperately wanted to play a musical instrument. Failure...I just couldn't do it. On the other hand any sport that involved hand/eye coordination I could pick up in no time.

Swashbuckler

skyblue46 wrote:

No I don't think we'll ever agree on it to be honest. In no way am I suggesting that it's an excuse to not try to get the best from oneself. But neither should someone who doesn't reach a reasonably high standard feel that they have trained inadequately or had too little desire. It just may not be in their capability range. For example my parents spent endless amounts on lessons because I desperately wanted to play a musical instrument. Failure...I just couldn't do it. On the other hand any sport that involved hand/eye coordination I could pick up in no time.

What do you think is the limit of your capability at 10k for example? Just curious

Swashbuckler

skyblue46 wrote:

But neither should someone who doesn't reach a reasonably high standard feel that they have trained inadequately or had too little desire.

I agree cometely by the way. But I've seen a lot of people think they have reached their limit but if their truly honest they have reached the limit of how much they want to put in.

skyblue46

Swashbuckler wrote: »

What do you think is the limit of your capability at 10k for example? Just curious

That's an interesting one. I'm not sure. Quite a bit faster than I can do now. Not sure that I can/ want to make the necessary lifestyle changes that would be a help. I'd be thinking high 37/ low 38 within 18 months.

Swashbuckler

skyblue46 wrote:

That's an interesting one. I'm not sure. Quite a bit faster than I can do now. Not sure that I can/ want to make the necessary lifestyle changes that would be a help. I'd be thinking high 37/ low 38 within 18 months.

And I think if you were willing to make the changes youd reach 35 for definite. Nothing to do with genetics. Just hard work. So little talent in my eyes needed at our level. We can all reach a decent level without factoring talent.

skyblue46

Swashbuckler wrote: »

And I think if you were willing to make the changes youd reach 35 for definite. Nothing to do with genetics. Just hard work. So little talent in my eyes needed at our level. We can all reach a decent level without factoring talent.

Again I disagree...surprisingly :pac: I think I have certain genes that help me. I think some training is helping me gradually enable them to prosper a bit. There are lads I beat in school races 40 years ago when we weren't training. I'd wager I'd still beat the same lads, and the lads who beat me then still would with equal training, even now. Everyone can train perfectly, it's ability that separates at every level. I suppose we also both took a different meaning from ariana's question.

skyblue46

Swashbuckler wrote: »

And I think if you were willing to make the changes youd reach 35 for definite. Nothing to do with genetics. Just hard work. So little talent in my eyes needed at our level. We can all reach a decent level without factoring talent.

I'm never giving up my 30 pints a week!

Swashbuckler

skyblue46 wrote:

Again I disagree...surprisingly I think I have certain genes that help me. I think some training is helping me gradually enable them to prosper a bit. There are lads I beat in school races 40 years ago when we weren't training. I'd wager I'd still beat the same lads, and the lads who beat me then still would with equal training, even now. Everyone can train perfectly, it's ability that separates at every level. I suppose we also both took a different meaning from ariana's question.

I think we're probably looking at this differently. I guess I took arianas question as meaning do i think talent plays a part for people at amateur level being able to reach a decent level and I don't think it does. If the question means do I think people with natural talent will prosper more than those with none then probably no. But I guess what I'm saying is I believe most of us can get to a pretty decent standard before talent plays a part. For me talent is what differentiates someone who's a low 30s 10k vs an Olympic athlete. We can all work on improving our technique, stride, running systems etc. At some point you'll hit a ceiling. I don't think that ceiling is at our level.

skyblue46

Swashbuckler wrote: »

I think we're probably looking at this differently. I guess I took arianas question as meaning do i think talent plays a part for people at amateur level being able to reach a decent level and I don't think it does. If the question means do I think people with natural talent will prosper more than those with none then probably no. But I guess what I'm saying is I believe most of us can get to a pretty decent standard before talent plays a part. For me talent is what differentiates someone who's a low 30s 10k vs an Olympic athlete. We can all work on improving our technique, stride, running systems etc. At some point you'll hit a ceiling. I don't think that ceiling is at our level.

Yeah while I'm looking at it from the view where someone trains like a god and can't break 50 for 10k while someone else can rock up off a bit of football training and run 42. Different perspectives on the same question. To me the difference there is ability pure and simple.

Swashbuckler

skyblue46 wrote:

Yeah while I'm looking at it from the view where someone trains like a god and can't break 50 for 10k while someone else can rock up off a bit of football training and run 42. Different perspectives on the same question. To me the difference there is ability pure and simple.

Most lads I see who struggle with getting sub 50 10k are usually not training right or are overweight or enjoy the finer things in life like pints, food etc or aren't training that long or all of the above. Not talent. My buddy came off double Achilles surgery. No running history. Unhealthy, boozed a lot, would say himself he was overweight. Started proper training, worked together on a specific plan to address his weaknesses over time, lost a lot of weight. Cut back on booze and recently ran sub 20 5k and isn't far off sub 40 10k. Not talent. Just hard work. The guy that comes off a little football training is likely fitter to begin with. We can all reach a good standard with just hard work. Anyway we're probably going around circles at this stage. Haha

skyblue46

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Most lads I see who struggle with getting sub 50 10k are usually not training right or are overweight or enjoy the finer things in life like pints, food etc or aren't training that long or all of the above. Not talent. My buddy came off double Achilles surgery. No running history. Unhealthy, boozed a lot, would say himself he was overweight. Started proper training, worked together on a specific plan to address his weaknesses over time, lost a lot of weight. Cut back on booze and recently ran sub 20 5k and isn't far off sub 40 10k. Not talent. Just hard work. The guy that comes off a little football training is likely fitter to begin with. We can all reach a good standard with just hard work. Anyway we're probably going around circles at this stage. Haha

We are...and I could give examples at the other end of the scale. Anyway my 4 pack of craft beers are finished and I have to be up at 6:30 to start running at 7:30 so I better say goodnight.

Swashbuckler

skyblue46 wrote:

We are...and I could give examples at the other end of the scale. Anyway my 4 pack of craft beers are finished and I have to be up at 6:30 to start running at 7:30 so I better say goodnight.

Haha cut back on that craft beer and work on your talent.

Just to harp back to the original question - I've asked myself that question in the past and the reason I asked was because I was trying to figure out what were the limits of my ability. Where is my ceiling. Can I reach 30.xx for the 10k or is the limit of my talent or ability at some slower time? . So ariana, if that was partly why you asked the question, I think you're a million miles from your ceiling yet. You're not even close to your limit. You have a great attitude with your running. And never limit yourself on where you "think" your limit is. If that's not why you asked then good question and you triggered a good debate!

skyblue46

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Haha cut back on that craft beer and work on your talent.

Just to harp back to the original question - I've asked myself that question in the past and the reason I asked was because I was trying to figure out what were the limits of my ability. Where is my ceiling. Can I reach 30.xx for the 10k or is the limit of my talent or ability at some slower time? . So ariana, if that was partly why you asked the question, I think you're a million miles from your ceiling yet. You're not even close to your limit. You have a great attitude with your running. And never limit yourself on where you "think" your limit is. If that's not why you asked then good question and you triggered a good debate!

Re Ariana...agreed! Loads more there before you max out.

Swashbuckler

Murph_D wrote:

Q - How do you manage pain (if you haven’t answered this yet?) Do you have a particular technique or just pure stubbornness, 00negative-style?

Wanted to revisit this one coz I had a think about it on my run this morning. I love to reflect. Haha. There was a few techniques I forgot to mention. One in particular I forgot and it seems to work for me and others quite a bit is bargaining. Tell yourself if you make it to 3k then you can stop then, when you get to 3k then renegotiate. Constant renegotiation. Also tell yourself of the rewards you'll give your body. Like "I promise I'll give you a rest tomorrow". I tend to talk to my body parts like they're a separate person which might sound weird but it works. Haha.
I very much look at it like a baby that bumps their head. There's an initial shock where they look at you. That's your chance to wave your arms around and clap and distract them. Haha. The mind and body in a race are like that baby. Constant distraction helps. The tough part is often what works in one race won't work again. Another one is focusing on your technique, breathing etc. Checking in on your "Turnover and form" is a good one I've seen one of the Kenyan lads on here use. Are my arms swinging, are my knees lifting, how's my breathing etc. Anyway just wanted to add to this.

Murph_D

Good post. Duanington’s ‘turnover and form’ is one I’ve been thinking about myself, although I struggle to get any coherent thoughts going during the white heat of racing to be honest (and it’s all relative). Dubgal was a great believer in the ‘systems check’ that you also describe. And the ‘cattle prod’ - you’re OK, don’t fall asleep, keep pushing.

The former poster TRR had an intriguing mantra that I’ve tried to adopt re pain - “Relax and let it in”. Again I’ve struggled to respond to this myself but I sometimes use it when pacing others.

This question is really key to effective racing, I think - finding a way to turn off the ‘central governor’. You seem to be mastering the art. I like the bargaining theory - Again it’s something I do in training but rarely in a race.

Thanks for the reflections!

Swashbuckler

Murph_D wrote:

This question is really key to effective racing, I think - finding a way to turn off the ‘central governor’. You seem to be mastering the art. I like the bargaining theory - Again it’s something I do in training but rarely in a race.

I'm not sure I've mastered anything yet to be honest. It seems to be getting tougher over time. It's especially tough with the 5k and 10k I think because you're at the limits of how much oxygen you can deliver to your body. It's high stress. That's a really uncomfortable place to be.

Murph_D

Swashbuckler wrote: »

I'm not sure I've mastered anything yet to be honest. It seems to be getting tougher over time. It's especially tough with the 5k and 10k I think because you're at the limits of how much oxygen you can deliver to your body. It's high stress. That's a really uncomfortable place to be.

If you are getting to the limits (and that doesn’t mean world records, we are talking relatively here) you are mastering the art. Most people don’t get close to where they could be for the level of talent/work they have/do.

Swashbuckler

Thanks for all the questions so far. Ye have me for one more night lads! Next "volunteer" identified

adrian522

Swashbuckler wrote: »

And I think genetics has less of a role for people at our level. We could all get to 35 minute 10ks. No exception.

I guess I must just be lazy and most other runners I know must be lazy too.

ariana`

Thanks P & S for the great debate! Some interesting angles from both of you (ever the diplomat i am :P). As you rightly identified the question was two-fold - some runners just seem to make it look easier to make gains or to take long breaks when the weather isn't favourable for example and then pick up where they left off. I took a break when i had my last baby, the "baby" who is now 3 and loves telling me he not a baby, and i'm still eating the dust of my friend who i had been faster than prior to taking that break

And the other thought behind the question you hit on below... and i appreciate the encouraging replies. Some times it feels like a slog to see results, thankfully an enjoyable slog most of the time

Loving all your answers P, really interesting stuff on handling pain as well

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Haha cut back on that craft beer and work on your talent.

Just to harp back to the original question - I've asked myself that question in the past and the reason I asked was because I was trying to figure out what were the limits of my ability. Where is my ceiling. Can I reach 30.xx for the 10k or is the limit of my talent or ability at some slower time? . So ariana, if that was partly why you asked the question, I think you're a million miles from your ceiling yet. You're not even close to your limit. You have a great attitude with your running. And never limit yourself on where you "think" your limit is. If that's not why you asked then good question and you triggered a good debate!

skyblue46 wrote: »

Re Ariana...agreed! Loads more there before you max out.

Thanks