3 month trial for apprenticeship

jettamk6

Hi ive recently offered a 3 month trial for an apprenticeship and i was just looking for feedback from people who've done this. when an employer usually says that do they usually mean cash in hand when they say trial period or is it by the books? its a plumbing apprenticeship with a fairly small company that ive been offered a job with if thats any help.

OMM 0000

It's really impossible to know.

I feel like this is something you can ask your employer.

I understand it is not good if they are paying you under the table, but the important thing here is this:

* Show up on time
* Don't be hungover or smelling of booze
* Seem enthusiastic
* Try to remember what they tell you

If I could go back in time, I'd love to be a plumber, electrician or carpenter. Take advantage of the opportunity in front of you!

LandersDublin

jettamk6 wrote: »

Hi ive recently offered a 3 month trial for an apprenticeship and i was just looking for feedback from people who've done this. when an employer usually says that do they usually mean cash in hand when they say trial period or is it by the books? its a plumbing apprenticeship with a fairly small company that ive been offered a job with if thats any help.

It won't be cash in hand unless he is a cowboy. The trial is usually a month and it's just to see if the applicant will meet the standards required. It costs companies to register an apprentice for tech so they need to be sure your not a jackass (not offending u) just stating the jobs outlook.

wiz569

No they wont mean cash in hand,it just means there is a 3 month trial/probation period,

Now this could be as part of your apprenticeship or as a precursor to it to see if he thinks you are suitable before he actually hires you as a plumbing apprentice.

jettamk6

OMM 0000 wrote: »

It's really impossible to know.

I feel like this is something you can ask your employer.

I understand it is not good if they are paying you under the table, but the important thing here is this:

* Show up on time
* Don't be hungover or smelling of booze
* Seem enthusiastic
* Try to remember what they tell you

If I could go back in time, I'd love to be a plumber, electrician or carpenter. Take advantage of the opportunity in front of you!

i prefer if it was by the the books but i mean who is going to that for only tree months. And i also dont want this just to be a ruse just to have me for 3 months work. How would i go about asking if its cash in hand Im sort off afraid to ask that in case offend it offends him. but i dont want to show up on the job and find out.

billybonkers

jettamk6 wrote: »

i prefer if it was by the the books but i mean who is going to that for only tree months. And i also dont want this just to be a ruse just to have me for 3 months work. How would i go about asking if its cash in hand Im sort off afraid to ask that in case offend it offends him. but i dont want to show up on the job and find out.

Tell him you want to accept it and where should you send him your p45 and bank details? Also ask him what the rate of pay is and how often you can expect to be paid. He will soon let you know his intentions

OMM 0000

jettamk6 wrote: »

i prefer if it was by the the books but i mean who is going to that for only tree months. And i also dont want this just to be a ruse just to have me for 3 months work. How would i go about asking if its cash in hand Im sort off afraid to ask that in case offend it offends him. but i dont want to show up on the job and find out.

Honestly I would just be straight up.

"Is this cash in hand or on the books?".

"Why are you asking this?"

"I'd just like to know".

"Do you have a problem with cash in hand?"

"Obviously I'd prefer if it was on the books, but you know, I'm flexible".

You get the idea.

salmocab

This trial thing is nonsense its a way of getting to pay you for 15 months as a first year, sure they could let you go after 3 months if you werent working out regardless of trial period or not. You should be registered from within a few days of when you start with FAS. I think this was cracked down on a few years back to cut out this nonsense. Although that said I realise its easy for me to give out when I'm not the one looking to start an apprenticeship and get a start in the trade.

Hellrazer

salmocab wrote: »

This trial thing is nonsense its a way of getting to pay you for 15 months as a first year, sure they could let you go after 3 months if you werent working out regardless of trial period or not. You should be registered from within a few days of when you start with FAS. I think this was cracked down on a few years back to cut out this nonsense. Although that said I realise its easy for me to give out when I'm not the one looking to start an apprenticeship and get a start in the trade.

It's actually not a way to get an apprentice to work for 15 months as a first year.Its very very difficult to get rid of an apprentice once you have registered them with Solas and there are strict rules that stop you taking on another one for a set period of time so you need that person to be the right person before registering them.

I give a one or two month trial to all of mine and believe me that trial has saved me months of hardship.
You get lads who think it will be great to be an apprentice but don't actually realise that the first 2 years are spent as a general labourer ,emptying bins,doing the crap work for **** wages when they're friends are out working in a minimum paid job earning more than the apprentice.

A lot leave within the first month to go and work in a similar role and don't think longer term.

Conservatory

Every two lads that start, one of them leaves after a few weeks. Some people don’t like being barked at by a man under pressure, some don’t like to get up ladders, some don’t like to walk fast, some are scared of grinders and some just don’t realize it’s hard work. Some end up on fire watch for a few months or standing at the bottom of a cherry picker telling people to be careful and not walk into it.

It’s not for everybody. I unclogged a dishwasher in my way home. (I seem to always get calls for feckin clogged dishwashers) when an apprentice sees you rummaging through somebodies week old food some of them there and then decide it’s not for them.

I’m not sure how hard it is to get rid of an apprentice but I’m guessing fairly hard. There’s one drunk in my company that nobody will work with, they still keep him on even though he’s a third or fourth year now. When he gets qualified he will be let go the very same day. But until then he just keeps getting made up jobs.

So I suppose the trial is fair enough for everybody.

BattleCorp

If he wants you to work for cash, it probably won't lead to a proper apprenticeship.

I'd take it if it isn't for cash.

jettamk6

believe me im at appoint in my live where im thinking long term as im a few years older than the usual apprentice so im thinking in terms of something i can make a career out of. by the way what trade are you in?

meeeeh

salmocab wrote: »

This trial thing is nonsense its a way of getting to pay you for 15 months as a first year, sure they could let you go after 3 months if you werent working out regardless of trial period or not. You should be registered from within a few days of when you start with FAS. I think this was cracked down on a few years back to cut out this nonsense. Although that said I realise its easy for me to give out when I'm not the one looking to start an apprenticeship and get a start in the trade.

It doesn't work like that. We had apprentices stuck in phase one because Solas wouldn't call them for quite a while, it depends when they start and when the courses start. If I remember correctly you have to register apprentice in two weeks after they start work but I will admit we had a trial period for two we were not sure about (the rest were registered straight away). We never kept anyone longer in phase one because we could pay them less. But if you have only couple of employees and are taking on an apprentice you really would want to make sure they are suitable.

jettamk6

Conservatory wrote: »

Every two lads that start, one of them leaves after a few weeks. Some people don’t like being barked at by a man under pressure, some don’t like to get up ladders, some don’t like to walk fast, some are scared of grinders and some just don’t realize it’s hard work. Some end up on fire watch for a few months or standing at the bottom of a cherry picker telling people to be careful and not walk into it.

It’s not for everybody. I unclogged a dishwasher in my way home. (I seem to always get calls for feckin clogged dishwashers) when an apprentice sees you rummaging through somebodies week old food some of them there and then decide it’s not for them.

I’m not sure how hard it is to get rid of an apprentice but I’m guessing fairly hard. There’s one drunk in my company that nobody will work with, they still keep him on even though he’s a third or fourth year now. When he gets qualified he will be let go the very same day. But until then he just keeps getting made up jobs.

So I suppose the trial is fair enough for everybody.

i will mostly be working in the commercial end of plumbing but if it i had to do domestic and what you described thats alright as at least in the long run you get a career out of it as a posed to doing minimum wage jobs for the rest of my life

Conservatory

jettamk6 wrote: »

i will mostly be working in the commercial end of plumbing but if it i had to do domestic and what you described thats alright as at least in the long run you get a career out of it as a posed to doing minimum wage jobs for the rest of my life

Good lad. I done it as a young chap and today I spent out in the blistering heat working on the tan while fiddling about with copper pipes. Kind of like being at the beech but with copper instead of sandcastles. Some days are horrible but the more skilled and experienced you get the more you get to paw the horrible work over to the apprentices.
So many jobs will be done by computers by the time you are in your 40s so the more skilled you are by then the better.

jettamk6

Hi lads thanks for the responses i also have another two questions i would like to get opinions on alright here we go:
First off im waiting to hear back from the naval service and also the army two jobs i would love to do but if i get a call from the the defedence forces a week or two into my new job what should i do? i would love to serve in the naval service or army but not make a career out of it. I have heared you can do an apprentice ship with the defence forces but its pretty limited in what you can pick.
My second question is if you you where in my shoes would you take a job where it costs you around 60 euro a week on travel because thats what ive worked out what my travel costs will be for this new job.

salmocab

Hellrazer wrote: »

It's actually not a way to get an apprentice to work for 15 months as a first year.Its very very difficult to get rid of an apprentice once you have registered them with Solas and there are strict rules that stop you taking on another one for a set period of time so you need that person to be the right person before registering them.

I give a one or two month trial to all of mine and believe me that trial has saved me months of hardship.
You get lads who think it will be great to be an apprentice but don't actually realise that the first 2 years are spent as a general labourer ,emptying bins,doing the crap work for **** wages when they're friends are out working in a minimum paid job earning more than the apprentice.

A lot leave within the first month to go and work in a similar role and don't think longer term.

If your paying someone less than minimum wage and they are not registered it’s illegal, 3 month and six month even during the recession became the norm but the last company I worked on site with started registering them straight away because of pressure from unions.

Birdsong

The company I work with has a 3 month probation for all employees, including apprentices.

We used to register with solas straight away but found at least 1 we hired would drop out, for a variety of reasons. The 3 month probation works both ways & means those registered really knows what they're signing up for.

The company has no control over when people are called for their various phases, that is Solas. So not trying to get 15 months work for 12 months.

micks

salmocab wrote: »

This trial thing is nonsense its a way of getting to pay you for 15 months as a first year, sure they could let you go after 3 months if you werent working out regardless of trial period or not. You should be registered from within a few days of when you start with FAS. I think this was cracked down on a few years back to cut out this nonsense. Although that said I realise its easy for me to give out when I'm not the one looking to start an apprenticeship and get a start in the trade.

Hellrazer wrote: »

It's actually not a way to get an apprentice to work for 15 months as a first year.Its very very difficult to get rid of an apprentice once you have registered them with Solas and there are strict rules that stop you taking on another one for a set period of time so you need that person to be the right person before registering them.

I give a one or two month trial to all of mine and believe me that trial has saved me months of hardship.
You get lads who think it will be great to be an apprentice but don't actually realise that the first 2 years are spent as a general labourer ,emptying bins,doing the crap work for **** wages when they're friends are out working in a minimum paid job earning more than the apprentice.

A lot leave within the first month to go and work in a similar role and don't think longer term.

I dont disagree with your post but salmocab is correct there was a clamp down by solas to stop this practice - at least one of the bigger electrical contractors were taking apprentices on trial basis and registering them with solas after their 6 month trial. They were paying them 1st yr rate for 18months and were forced to back pay min wage for the trial period when caught. Now they have to register apprentices within a few weeks of start date
While you're correct lots leave because they dont like the job - but while the % may be higher with apprentices its the same as any job - and thats what probationary periods are for

salmocab

jettamk6 wrote: »

Hi lads thanks for the responses i also have another two questions i would like to get opinions on alright here we go:
First off im waiting to hear back from the naval service and also the army two jobs i would love to do but if i get a call from the the defedence forces a week or two into my new job what should i do? i would love to serve in the naval service or army but not make a career out of it. I have heared you can do an apprentice ship with the defence forces but its pretty limited in what you can pick.
My second question is if you you where in my shoes would you take a job where it costs you around 60 euro a week on travel because thats what ive worked out what my travel costs will be for this new job.

Don’t worry about the naval service or the army if they come up decide then based on your recent experience, 60 on travel is a pain out of 250ish but not the end of the world. I’m sure at this stage you have worked out the first 2 years are rough money wise but we all did it.

OMM 0000

> im waiting to hear back from the naval service and also the army two jobs i would love to do but if i get a call from the the defedence forces a week or two into my new job what should i do?

You already answered your question. "i would love to do". So you quit your job and take the job you would love to do.

> My second question is if you you where in my shoes would you take a job where it costs you around 60 euro a week on travel because thats what ive worked out what my travel costs will be for this new job.

OK, I'm old, so my advice is based on being old, experienced, and been around the block more than once. You have to think long term. Your decisions in your 20s, in general, determine the rest of your life.

micks

jettamk6 wrote: »

Hi lads thanks for the responses i also have another two questions i would like to get opinions on alright here we go:
First off im waiting to hear back from the naval service and also the army two jobs i would love to do but if i get a call from the the defedence forces a week or two into my new job what should i do? i would love to serve in the naval service or army but not make a career out of it. I have heared you can do an apprentice ship with the defence forces but its pretty limited in what you can pick.
My second question is if you you where in my shoes would you take a job where it costs you around 60 euro a week on travel because thats what ive worked out what my travel costs will be for this new job.

there are lots of opportunities for apprenticeships

If you are going with this "trial" i'd advise you to ask them when they intend registering you with solas (rather than getting their back up asking about tax/cash in hand)
I you have no other opportunities it could be worth taking the risk. They could be a small company that got burned by apprentices letting them down or they could be taking advantage.
dont know about navy - army do take on apprentices
http://www.military.ie/careers/army/apprentices/training/

jettamk6

salmocab wrote: »

Don’t worry about the naval service or the army if they come up decide then based on your recent experience, 60 on travel is a pain out of 250ish but not the end of the world. I’m sure at this stage you have worked out the first 2 years are rough money wise but we all did it.

Thanks but im 23 and its just i feel like i wont get another chance to serve in the defence forces i have a really difficult home situation and the defence forces just look like an opportunity to leave home even if its for a few months at time.

salmocab

jettamk6 wrote: »

Thanks but im 23 and its just i feel like i wont get another chance to serve in the defence forces i have a really difficult home situation and the defence forces just look like an opportunity to leave home even if its for a few months at time.

Sorry might not have made myself clear what I meant was if they do come up then decide at that stage whether your enjoying what your doing enough and see yourself doing it for a longtime or if you think you’d always regret not joining the forces. Don’t worry about leaving the apprenticeship if it’s for something you really want to do.

salmocab

Btw 23 is not old plenty start apprenticeships in their late 20s and some even later. Lots of employers like to take lads who have done other work and appreciate what they are getting.

Conservatory

Why in the name of jaysis would you join the army?
Come on here worried about your rights and being taken advantage of then say you want to leave to join the army?

It’s not like the ads.

jettamk6

you see i lean towards the navy as i love the sea but i would love to also do an apprentice ship while serving in the navy but from what ive seen its mostly mechanical and eletrical that they offer which makes sense.

jettamk6

Conservatory wrote: »

Why in the name of jaysis would you join the army?
Come on here worried about your rights and being taken advantage of then say you want to leave to join the army?

It’s not like the ads.

ha ha i know what the army entails but i also said i would also like to serve in the navy which is what I lean towards more than the army. Also the irish army is pretty safe compared to the us and uk army ours mostly do peace keeping.

jettamk6

salmocab wrote: »

Btw 23 is not old plenty start apprenticeships in their late 20s and some even later. Lots of employers like to take lads who have done other work and appreciate what they are getting.

i completely appreciate anyone who would take me on its just i dont want to waste my time with someone who will just use me and i know that 23 isnt that old but the cut off for the navy is 27 and the army 25 so if i serve my time in a trade i will be to old to join and if i serve in the navy i feel i will be to old for an apprenticeship

Conservatory

jettamk6 wrote: »

ha ha i know what the army entails but i also said i would also like to serve in the navy which is what I lean towards more than the army. Also the irish army is pretty safe compared to the us and uk army ours mostly do peace keeping.

Siege of jadotville was a peacekeeping mission.
Army families are always in the paper about how rough they have it.

salmocab

jettamk6 wrote: »

you see i lean towards the navy as i love the sea but i would love to also do an apprentice ship while serving in the navy but from what ive seen its mostly mechanical and eletrical that they offer which makes sense.

Things you learn there will translate into a lot of industries. Lots of tradesmen move on by the time they are 40ish to other related roles or working for themselves. Working on ships electrically or mechanically would stand to you on another job which by the time you leave the navy you might have been thinking of moving on from plumbing at that stage anyway.

K.Flyer

If you get an offer for what you anticipate to be your "dream job".. Go For It!
Opportunity doesn't knock too often on the door, so like someone throwing a ball to you, you can decide to catch it or let it bounce on past you.

jettamk6

Conservatory wrote: »

Siege of jadotville was a peacekeeping mission.
Army families are always in the paper about how rough they have it.

OH i know i wasnt belittling the army sure i want to join them i was just stating compared to other countries its a lot safer i completely respect them ive seen how it can build a strong character within a person.

jettamk6

K.Flyer wrote: »

If you get an offer for what you anticipate to be your "dream job".. Go For It!
Opportunity doesn't knock too often on the door, so like someone throwing a ball to you, you can decide to catch it or let it bounce on past you.

thats only if i hear anything back from the defence forces if not the trades for me

jettamk6

salmocab wrote: »

Things you learn there will translate into a lot of industries. Lots of tradesmen move on by the time they are 40ish to other related roles or working for themselves. Working on ships electrically or mechanically would stand to you on another job which by the time you leave the navy you might have been thinking of moving on from plumbing at that stage anyway.

yes but eletrical and mechanical is out of my depth (no pun intended)

BattleCorp

I'm not being smart but there's no guarantee that you'll get the army or navy. Take the apprentice job and if you do get offered the army or navy, then you have a choice to make.

jettamk6

BattleCorp wrote: »

I'm not being smart but there's no guarantee that you'll get the army or navy. Take the apprentice job and if you do get offered the army or navy, then you have a choice to make.

Thanks its just the naval service has a lot of similarities in volunteer work i do which is in search and rescue

jettamk6

Thanks for all the replies sorry for going of topic with a few of my questions.
I have one more question in regards to travel is there any grant or scheme that helps apprentices with travel expenses?

BattleCorp

jettamk6 wrote: »

Thanks its just the naval service has a lot of similarities in volunteer work i do which is in search and rescue

I'd say the similarities begin and end with boats and water. Very different from being in the RNLI here.

Check out the FAQs below if you are into the navy.

http://www.military.ie/ie/an-tseirbhis-chabhlaigh/faq/

meeeeh

jettamk6 wrote: »

thats only if i hear anything back from the defence forces if not the trades for me

We actually took on an apprentice in third phase. He paused his apprenticeship for years and went to army. We took him on after he left the army because we needed someone with a bit of knowledge and were not looking for 1st year apprentice. He then finished his apprenticeship with us 10 years later.

I suspect it's harder to get back into apprenticeship but it's not impossible.

Wheeliebin30

Plumber or sparks is one of the best jobs to get qualified in.

The amount of nixers that can come from it is endless.

Serious money to be made.

jettamk6

BattleCorp wrote: »

I'd say the similarities begin and end with boats and water. Very different from being in the RNLI here.

Check out the FAQs below if you are into the navy.

http://www.military.ie/ie/an-tseirbhis-chabhlaigh/faq/

thanks I have read up on the naval service and spoken to people who have served. I know search and rescue inst a main part of it but i know its an element of it with the likes of helping vessels in distress and taking part in searchs at sea and not to mention the mediterean rescues they have been in involved in.
And i hope this is the last response in regards to the navy as i have another question in regards to travel expenses i would like answered thank you

salmocab

jettamk6 wrote: »

yes but eletrical and mechanical is out of my depth (no pun intended)

Ah I doubt it, don’t sell yourself short. If you worried about say leaving results I got a terrible leaving and had no problems in tech. It will be what you make of it.

jettamk6

Conservatory wrote: »

Good lad. I done it as a young chap and today I spent out in the blistering heat working on the tan while fiddling about with copper pipes. Kind of like being at the beech but with copper instead of sandcastles. Some days are horrible but the more skilled and experienced you get the more you get to paw the horrible work over to the apprentices.
So many jobs will be done by computers by the time you are in your 40s so the more skilled you are by then the better.

Thank you would you happen to have any knowledge of what my tree month trial period will involve as i have no experience in plumbing and the only site experience i have is from fitting windows for 3 months during the winter and even then i was mostly cleaning up and fetching tools etc

jettamk6

BattleCorp wrote: »

If he wants you to work for cash, it probably won't lead to a proper apprenticeship.

I'd take it if it isn't for cash.

Im hopeful it isnt even if it is i might take it as im desperate for work

BattleCorp

jettamk6 wrote: »

Im hopeful it isnt even if it is i might take it as im desperate for work

Take it so. And if something better comes along, then take that.

Conservatory

jettamk6 wrote: »

Thank you would you happen to have any knowledge of what my tree month trial period will involve as i have no experience in plumbing and the only site experience i have is from fitting windows for 3 months during the winter and even then i was mostly cleaning up and fetching tools etc

Exactly that. If you are really good at cleaning up and fetching stuff and likeable a qualified fella might start teaching you stuff like welding or cupro or solder of any of the other million skills you end up having. If you are a muppet with a smart lip and a grumpy face probably just cleaning and fetching.

My number one tip would be don’t be waffling in a mans ear all day about your stuff you wanna talk about. If the qualified fella wants to chat all day he will chat all day but usually he is busy and just wants to concentrate on not flooding the place or blowing it up. Sometimes he’s doing maths or shopping lists for materials in his head and doesn’t want to hear about the time you worked in some job and something happened. This is something young lads don’t realize about most older lads. We get peed off yapping after awhile and don’t mind silences.

jettamk6

BattleCorp wrote: »

Take it so. And if something better comes along, then take that.

cheers everyones so nice on this i was kind of bracing myself for some negativity from some folks.

jettamk6

Conservatory wrote: »

Exactly that. If you are really good at cleaning up and fetching stuff and likeable a qualified fella might start teaching you stuff like welding or cupro or solder of any of the other million skills you end up having. If you are a muppet with a smart lip and a grumpy face probably just cleaning and fetching.

My number one tip would be don’t be waffling in a mans ear all day about your stuff you wanna talk about. If the qualified fella wants to chat all day he will chat all day but usually he is busy and just wants to concentrate on not flooding the place or blowing it up. Sometimes he’s doing maths or shopping lists for materials in his head and doesn’t want to hear about the time you worked in some job and something happened. This is something young lads don’t realize about most older lads. We get peed off yapping after awhile and don’t mind silences.

thanks for your reply unfortunately i by default have a grumpy face (always been asked whats wrong or told to smile when nothings wrong)
As for the waffling i will keep my lip bit even tho i hate awkward silences its just in my nature. again love the feedback an thanks for not being a right arse to me

Paul_Mc1988

salmocab wrote:

This trial thing is nonsense its a way of getting to pay you for 15 months as a first year, sure they could let you go after 3 months if you werent working out regardless of trial period or not. You should be registered from within a few days of when you start with FAS. I think this was cracked down on a few years back to cut out this nonsense. Although that said I realise its easy for me to give out when I'm not the one looking to start an apprenticeship and get a start in the trade.

My god thats bull****. While on probation and not registered as an apprentice you get minimum wage. All the big boys like Mercury Jones etc do it this way. On the other hand what they can do is pay you first year rate and at the time they register you backdate your registration start date to your employment start date which means you will get your 2nd year rate 12 months post start date. If they dont a quick call to the union will sort it out.

salmocab

Paul_Mc1988 wrote: »

My god thats bull****. While on probation and not registered as an apprentice you get minimum wage. All the big boys like Mercury Jones etc do it this way. On the other hand what they can do is pay you first year rate and at the time they register you backdate your registration start date to your employment start date which means you will get your 2nd year rate 12 months post start date. If they dont a quick call to the union will sort it out.

The ‘big boys’ might do it now because they have to but smaller operators certainly don’t, Ive worked for several companies over the years who had first years for well over the year mark, it was nearly standard practice during the recession. I understand young lads not kicking up though as they just wanted to get their apprenticeship.