Anyone willing to admit that they supported the IRA at any point?

Dravokivich

The high horse brigade wrote: »

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter

Seems to be rarely the case. So why do people keep spouting this crap?

Donald Trump

Dravokivich wrote: »

Seems to be rarely the case. So why do people keep spouting this crap?

He Dravokivich, on a separate topic, what have you got against prison wardens? :pac:

FTA69

Strazdas wrote: »

One reason I said what I said is that I've watched TV interviews with former volunteers over the years and they seemed surprisingly angry and bitter in general and also fairly unrepentant about their past activities. Which does make me wonder about the idea of them being ordinary, decent men who somehow got sucked into violence.

It's rare that you'll hear them say they are full of regrets about the Troubles. Frequently they will try and justify the armed struggle all the way in a "I did what I had to do" type of way.

Depends on who you ask I suppose. I was in Algeria last year and met a few members of the old FLN there who fought against the French, they didn't regret the FLN campaign as they saw it as one which they fought for their liberation. Ireland is no different. I know some incredibly bitter former members, but they're bitter about the idea that what they didn't wasn't worth the outcome. Other former members you'll speak to (ones still to do with SF primarily) like Gerry Kelly or Danny Morrison wouldn't be bitter and acrimonious. Huge amounts of former combatants also suffer from PTSD etc.

As I said, the IRA were normal people who arose from their communities and did so because of a set of conditions that existed here. The fact they aren't saying today that they think the campaign etc was wrong isn't a sign they weren't 'normal'.

Dravokivich

Donald Trump wrote: »

He Dravokivich, on a separate topic, what have you got against prison wardens? :pac:

Sorry man, I may have missed the joke there?

Donald Trump

Dravokivich wrote: »

Sorry man, I may have missed the joke there?

A shit joke referencing your signature

FTA69

timthumbni wrote: »

but republicans are generally as thick as champ anyway so no surprise when their murder terrorist campaign failed miserably.

I know yeah, if only we had such erudite and astute intellects such as Willie McCrea, Sammy Wilson, Johnny Adair, the Free Presbyterians and Lenny Murphy we'd have been flying it altogether.

FrancieBrady

FTA69 wrote: »

Depends on who you ask I suppose. I was in Algeria last year and met a few members of the old FLN there who fought against the French, they didn't regret the FLN campaign as they saw it as one which they fought for their liberation. Ireland is no different. I know some incredibly bitter former members, but they're bitter about the idea that what they didn't wasn't worth the outcome. Other former members you'll speak to (ones still to do with SF primarily) like Gerry Kelly or Danny Morrison wouldn't be bitter and acrimonious. Huge amounts of former combatants also suffer from PTSD etc.

As I said, the IRA were normal people who arose from their communities and did so because of a set of conditions that existed here. The fact they aren't saying today that they think the campaign etc was wrong isn't a sign they weren't 'normal'.

Never ceases to amaze me how seemingly reasonably imteligent people can call them abnormal or psychopaths.

If they were they would not have been able to be stopped. In a very disciplined way, they did stop when then achieved something the SDLP could not achieve -a workable internationally binding agreement that once and for all removed the bigoted, religiously sectarian unionist state and forced them to share power.
That battle goes on today with the unionists now hellbent on destroying the union and their place in it. It took them less than a 100 years to wreck it all.

timthumbni

FTA69 wrote: »

timthumbni wrote: »

but republicans are generally as thick as champ anyway so no surprise when their murder terrorist campaign failed miserably.

I know yeah, if only we had such erudite and astute intellects such as Willie McCrea, Sammy Wilson, Johnny Adair, the Free Presbyterians and Lenny Murphy we'd have been flying it altogether.

Well I did say that the loyalists were just as bad as the provos though I don’t know why you brought the religious free p’s into it.

You mentioned ptsd. I’m sure there are plenty of ira “combatants” who have plenty of that. I hope for example the brave ira volunteers who blew up those 2 children outside a McDonald’s have bought a length of rope.

I also note you wouldn’t have supported the psni. Those “dissident” or ex ira Irish republicans who blew the legs off that catholic gaa playing officer didn’t support it either obviously....

Junkyard Tom

timthumbni wrote: »

Well I did say that the loyalists were just as bad as the provos.

Typical unionist self-delusion that so-called 'security forces' weren't up to their necks in the blood of innocent Catholics.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OB9XqkZD1yc

_Brian

timthumbni wrote: »

Well I did say that the loyalists were just as bad as the provos though I don’t know why you brought the religious free p’s into it.

You mentioned ptsd. I’m sure there are plenty of ira “combatants” who have plenty of that. I hope for example the brave ira volunteers who blew up those 2 children outside a McDonald’s have bought a length of rope.

I also note you wouldn’t have supported the psni. Those “dissident” or ex ira Irish republicans who blew the legs off that catholic gaa playing officer didn’t support it either obviously....

I knew two former members who killed themselves partially as a result of active duty.

I honestly don’t think the peace in the north would have been reached without the IRA activity. There would have been no reason for the brutality against republicans to stop otherwise.

the_syco

Pedro K wrote: »

I think, at times, the IRA were a necessary evil. Sometimes, you can't get the ballot without the bullet.

Especially when you kill those who you claim to protect.

timthumbni

_Brian wrote: »

timthumbni wrote: »

Well I did say that the loyalists were just as bad as the provos though I don’t know why you brought the religious free p’s into it.

You mentioned ptsd. I’m sure there are plenty of ira “combatants” who have plenty of that. I hope for example the brave ira volunteers who blew up those 2 children outside a McDonald’s have bought a length of rope.

I also note you wouldn’t have supported the psni. Those “dissident” or ex ira Irish republicans who blew the legs off that catholic gaa playing officer didn’t support it either obviously....

I knew two former members who killed themselves partially as a result of active duty.

I honestly don’t think the peace in the north would have been reached without the IRA activity. There would have been no reason for the brutality against republicans to stop otherwise.

The Ira murdered many more humans than anyone else involved in the modern troubles. They were the problem. Whenever they stopped blowing up kids the loyalist thugs stopped as well. So you can stop the poor downtrodden republican manta. It’s old, it’s tired and it’s a pile of mad dog ****e tbh.

AllForIt

I wouldn't every endorse the bombing of innocent civilians, ever.

However I totally understand how the IRA came about. Bearing in mind though that the vast majority of them were nothing more than common thugs and if they weren't in the IRA they would be common criminals. I think criminality is their line of work these days. They are hardly resuming their careers in medicine now that they have disbanded.

When I say I understand how they came to be I mean it in respect of this - your average English person thought that the IRA were from the Republic, ppl in the south who had no other concern than the reunification of Ireland. Gerry Adams was banned from speaking on British media - so the English were extremely ignorant of what was the real reason for the conflict. They didn't know anything about the DUP and their politics, they didn't even know there was Catholics committees in the north. They though the north of full of Brits and all the trouble was coming from the south.

I still hear today from some British commentators, more recently when Martin McGuinness died, that there was no need for any conflict at all and all that was required was peaceful protests. This point of view is laughable. The idea that peaceful protests would be tolerated in any way whatsoever back then is to completely deny the state of affairs and attitudes to the Catholic community back then.

The IRA came about because of the complete and utter subjugation of the Catholic Irish in NI by the ruling parties in the north and the British govermnent and if they didn't take that position there wouldn't have been any IRA at all.

FrancieBrady

timthumbni wrote: »

The Ira murdered many more humans than anyone else involved in the modern troubles. They were the problem. Whenever they stopped blowing up kids the loyalist thugs stopped as well. So you can stop the poor downtrodden republican manta. It’s old, it’s tired and it’s a pile of mad dog ****e tbh.

And we are still seeing again and again and again, that the state was an ardent and underhand player with lots of blood on it's hands.

But themuns 'were the problem'.

Those who had the capacity in 1968 (The British Gov) to do what they eventually did in 1998 after almost 3000 people died carry the ultimate responsibility.
There is no reason why the unionist controlled statlet could not have been dismantled in 68 - only the kind of arrogant imperialistic behaviour we are once again seeing in relation to Brexit.
That is why the IRA thrived, the British would only listen to force. And they did eventually listen and they did eventually act.

Filmer Paradise

Never supported them. I was in my teens in the '80s, so remember their brand of scumery very well.

Somehow as a kid I just knew that Haughey & all that he stood for was wrong. His followers were all utter Dopes. All of them.

IRA supporters in the South were cut from the same cloth. Dopes to a man & usually the dregs of society.

Zebra3

Utter scum the Rah.

If only they’d had the moral compass of the Brits.

Invading lands all over the world. Getting into the old genocide and ethnic cleansing. Castrating Africans, herding Africans into concentration camps. Bit of the old napalm dropping on Asian civilians.

Can’t understand why with gerrymandering, that nationalists didn’t sort everything out at the ballot box.

end of the road

archer22 wrote: »

You are forgetting that the Unionists and British could have wiped the IRA off the face of the earth in a few days if they wanted.
They knew every single one of them and had arrested them over and over...however they never upgraded the conflict to war status instead just keeping it to a policing matter.
They never once used their heavy weapons or air power.

The IRA were fortunate in who they were at 'war' with.
The Americans, Russians and most others would really have given them something to be singing about!!

actually, the british only knew the people at the top of the ira who they had been secretly negotiating with the whole time. after that, they had little idea of who were the ground troops. absolutely britain would have wiped them out in a face to face battle, however given the tactics the IRA used britain would not have been able to compete and would have failed to eradicate them. that is why britain likely didn't upgrade it to a full scale war.

Gadgetman496

Are we not getting the 6 counties back after Brexit?

northknife

Filmer Paradise wrote:

Never supported them. I was in my teens in the '80s, so remember their brand of scumery very well.

What an absolute tosspot you are.. how f'n dear you call the actions of people who fought back against the total discrimination and bigotry of the British government and the unionist elite who colluded to murder many innocent people and treat them as third class citizens who were not even able to vote, as scum. I would never have taken up arms from my privileged position here in the Republic but if I was living in an occupied country against that regime then I can be pretty certain that I would have done anything to help myself and my fellow citizens to rid ourselves of this evil tyranny.

Filmer Paradise

northknife wrote: »

What an absolute tosspot you are.. how f'n dear you call the actions of people who fought back against the total discrimination and bigotry of the British government and the unionist elite who colluded to murder many innocent people and treat them as third class citizens who were not even able to vote, as scum. I would never have taken up arms from my privileged position here in the Republic but if I was living in an occupied country against that regime then I can be pretty certain that I would have done anything to help myself and my fellow citizens to rid ourselves of this evil tyranny.

Never spoke of anybody in the North & Be careful of who you call a 'Tosspot' .

Maybe If I lived in the North in those times, I could have been the first on the streets myself. Who Knows?

I just answered a question on an internet discussion forum & outlined my positon on it.

So crane your neck in there now.

robindch

flookdgates wrote: »

Anyone willing to admit that they supported the IRA at any point?

Nope, since I didn't support them at any point during their campaign of terror, murder and crime all over Ireland, the UK and further afield. The IRA, their fellow-travellers and the various opposing sides they fought against, were not patriots when they were murdering people, and thankfully, few people paint them as patriots now. By their actions, they demeaned and discredited the idea of Irishness and associated it on the international stage with bombs, bulllets, criminality and death. They also planted a bomb in my home town well south of the border and - trivially, in the light of the rest of their broad contempt for civilization - one of their boyos, collecting money outside a church one Sunday morning, once made physical threats against my mum. Probably worth noting that they fought as terrorists too and not face-to-face as real soldiers would.

I am happy that the Irish and UK governments co-operated for long-enough and well-enough to bring an end to the campaigns of all the terrorists. And I'd like to see the current elected representatives in the north playing to the gallery less, and running the place more.

FTA69

timthumbni wrote: »

Well I did say that the loyalists were just as bad as the provos though I don’t know why you brought the religious free p’s into it.

I wasn't just referring to illegal paramilitary Loyalism or their mates in the DUP, but also the other armed strands of Unionism such as the sectarian organisations like the B Specials, the RUC and the UDR - all of which were actively aiding and colluding with Loyalist paramiliataries and doing so under state direction.

As I've said to you on other threads tim, you've this mad habit of taking a thumbs-behind-the-braces preaching moralism about IRA political violence while also supporting state bodies up to their neck in collusion, torture and the killing of innocent people. There is no moral superiority by the UDR et al over the IRA whatsoever.

It's funny that some people are on this thread going on about anger and bitterness etc but the only person I see blankety portraying Republicans as thicks and lowlifes while defending the RUC of all people, is you.

OldMrBrennan83

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The Backwards Man

The hoops people will put themselves through to justify their support for the cold blooded murderers of children are staggering. You can talk about themmuns all you want, but it just doesn't change what you are endorsing.

Silent Running

The Backwards Man wrote: »

The hoops people will put themselves through to justify their support for the cold blooded murderers of children are staggering. You can talk about themmuns all you want, but it just doesn't change what you are endorsing.

That can be said for both of themmuns.

The Backwards Man

Silent Running wrote: »

That can be said for both of themmuns.

My point exactly, you just don't see it, or you just don't want to see it. It's not a competition, you support the slaughter of innocents, or you don't.

Silent Running

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Cowardly murderous bastards.

So, it's fair to say that this statement applies to the Unionist thugs as well as Nationalist thugs.

As long as we both understand this. Your post could have been seen as aimed at the IRA only.

weldoninhio

Strazdas wrote: »

I think that's a bit simplistic. It takes a particular type of person who chooses to arm themselves with a weapon and open fire on people in the name of a political cause or to plant a bomb. They might have been normal on the surface but were still sufficiently different from the other ordinary people in NI who weren't participating in these activities.

How would you categorize Nelson Mandela??

Berserker

weldoninhio wrote: »

How would you categorize Nelson Mandela??

A class A1 terrorist.

FTA69 wrote: »

I wasn't just referring to illegal paramilitary Loyalism or their mates in the DUP

The DUP weren't mates with any illegal paramilitary groups. That was one of the issues with Unionism and Loyalism. On the nationalist/republican side, SF and the IRA were joined at the hip as we all know.

OldMrBrennan83

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