When did "Liberal" become a bad word?

TheIrishGrover

In the US (And increasingly here) the term "Liberal" is bandied about as a bad word. As if it is a bad thing to be a "Liberal". I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT US PARTIES: Democrat and Republican. I'm talking about liberal thinking versus conservative thinking.

In my opinion (Which is of value only to me and nobody else. Just the same as other's opinions) conservative thinking is about maintaining the current situation: If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Some think maybe some things need to be rolled back.

But liberal thinking is what progresses us as a people. Ireland would originally have been considered a very conservative country (especially in relation to mainland Europe) and is still, in many ways still considered so.

But here's the thing: Liberal thinking gave women the vote; allowed equal rights for people regardless of gender, race, creed or sexual orientation (In theory anyway); the ability for people to marry who they want; freed the slaves; improved living standards etc....

I mean what is "wrong" about that? Again, I am NOT talking US Party politics as, in the US, many of these acts were implemented under Republican legislation.

Again, in my OPINION ONLY, staying put, not thinking outside the box is, while not "wrong", not advancing us as a people. Is not opening us up to new ways of thinking.

Now, I know this thread is probably going to descend into name calling and general nastiness on both sides but can someone explain it to me why liberalism is "wrong" in their eyes?

And please PLEASE try to keep it civil. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and everyone's opinion is just as valid and important to them as yours is to you.

Mr. CooL ICE

Watch what you say or they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, a fanatical criminal! Won't you sign up your name? We'd like to feel you're acceptable,
respectable, oh presentable, a vegetable!

judeboy101

About 5mins after conservative became a bad word.

Grayson

Liberal has always been a bad word for conservatives. It's just that now because of a 24hr news cycle and the internet we're bombarded with their outrage. Whenever a new "liberal" idea starts being touted, whether it's womens suffrage, slave emancipation, gay marriage, etc the typical refrain from diehard conservatives is that they are being oppressed by it. They're being silenced by the liberals who want to shutdown dissent.

Mutant z

Liberal certainly is not a bad word the problem is certain folks idea of what a liberal is supposed to be for them its those who share their world view and anyone who doesn't share it are all bigots. Funny enough they claim to be liberal but are in favour of censorship which is about as illiberal as it gets.

Hector Savage

Dave Rubin explains it well

Mutant z

Another problem is this binary thinking which people come out with you are either with us or against us well i take the side of common sense every single time and not with those who are blind to it.

Franz Von Peppercorn

I’m largely a classic liberal. Pro free speech etc.

Modern US liberals are not. They largely believe in “repressive tolerance”, which is basically the intolerance of certain codes of speech.


Of course they tend to point to the rise of fascism in Europe as a defense of this position. Which is a fair point.

TheIrishGrover

TheIrishGrover wrote: »

In the US (And increasingly here) the term "Liberal" is bandied about as a bad word. As if it is a bad thing to be a "Liberal". [BI'M NOT TALKING ABOUT US PARTIES: Democrat and Republican[/B]. I'm talking about liberal thinking versus conservative thinking.

In my opinion (Which is of value only to me and nobody else. Just the same as other's opinions) conservative thinking is about maintaining the current situation: If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Some think maybe some things need to be rolled back.

But liberal thinking is what progresses us as a people. Ireland would originally have been considered a very conservative country (especially in relation to mainland Europe) and is still, in many ways still considered so.

But here's the thing: Liberal thinking gave women the vote; allowed equal rights for people regardless of gender, race, creed or sexual orientation (In theory anyway); the ability for people to marry who they want; freed the slaves; improved living standards etc....

I mean what is "wrong" about that? Again, I am NOT talking US Party politics as, in the US, many of these acts were implemented under Republican legislation.

Again, in my OPINION ONLY, staying put, not thinking outside the box is, while not "wrong", not advancing us as a people. Is not opening us up to new ways of thinking.

Now, I know this thread is probably going to descend into name calling and general nastiness on both sides but can someone explain it to me why liberalism is "wrong" in their eyes?

And please PLEASE try to keep it civil. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and everyone's opinion is just as valid and important to them as yours is to you.

Liberal in its current form is a highly contradictory term considering the idiots who are labelled as 'liberal' are trying to remove as much liberation as possible from free speech to democracy

Donald Trump

Dole Scrounging Vegan Crossfitter wrote: »

Watch what you say or they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, a fanatical criminal! Won't you sign up your name? We'd like to feel you're acceptable,
respectable, oh presentable, a vegetable!

You tramp



Edit: Adding master verion :pac:

Wiggles88

Personally I would consider myself liberal in times gone by and yes the items you listed, equal rights, equal voting etc. do progress us as people and are all advances we should collectively be proud of.

I think the issue with modern liberal thinking is there are many ideas which go under this banner which I would view (and I dont think I am alone) as more regressive than progressive. i.e. if you look at modern 3rd/4th wave feminism many ideas go against former feminist thinking (1st and 2 waves) and are arguably detrimental to the idea of equality of the sexes. So for this type of modern liberalism I think its entirely understandable for people to look at the word in a negative light.

Mutant z

Why does it have to be about liberal vs conservative why can't it be about defending the idea of free speech which is a trait of any liberal democracy.

Donald Trump

Mutant z wrote: »

Why does it have to be about liberal vs conservative why can't it be about defending the idea of free speech which is a trait of any liberal democracy.

Feck off hippy :P

riffmongous

It's a US term that we recently imported along with parts of their ideology, that doesn't really fit into European politics.

Mutant z

Liberalism isn't about multiculturalism, militant feminism, sexualty, gender, trans etc its about the right to freedom of speech and basic civil liberties with little government interference. But too many so called liberals want tighter censorship laws on speech and more government control on the individual which are contrary to liberal thinking.

manonboard

I've been moving towards a distasteful opinion of liberal / left.

It stems from encountering constant group mentality that is quite reminiscent of fascism leaning tendencies. I think many people are finding liberal to be a very aggressive political stance these days.

It seems to have a contradiction of "Everyone is equal, and free to be themselves, and thats ok".. then "however, you must view all people in this particular lens, and use this language, and think these thoughts.. or you're a bigot and an enemy of freedom".

It's become such an emotionally violent stance.

I think it also stems from a lack of responsibility of managing the destruction/harm/suffering that sometimes occurs from liberal policies. eg: "well it WOULD work if everyone just did it in every policy".. which is quite extremist.

Taytoland

People mix up liberalism with leftists/Marxists. It's usually the lunatics included in the latter.

Mutant z

This has become an issue because so many have strayed from its original meaning and used identity politics under the guise of liberalism which is a completely different thing to classical liberalism.

c68zapdsm5i1ru

Liberal used to mean tolerant, broad minded and accepting of those whose opinion differs from yours.

Nowadays, many of those who think of themselves as liberals, are actually the most aggressive in defence of their views and determined to shape society according to their opinions and their ideas. They have no time for anyone who has what they regard as conservative opinions, and think it's okay to belittle them and jeer at them and try to suppress their right to have an opinion, express their beliefs etc..

Those people are actually the very opposite of liberal and are actually intolerant dictators.

johnp001

Whether Liberal or Conservative is a bad word is a question of how you view people who hold opinions that differ from your own. Do you consider opposing views an indication of moral degeneracy or sophistry on the part of those that hold them or do you consider them otherwise intelligent, rational and moral people whose sincerely held beliefs are incorrect.
Johnathan Haidt has conducted interesting research on the extent to which holders of particular views are able to understand the views of their opponents
The Moral Stereotypes of Liberals and Conservatives: Exaggeration of Differences across the Political Divide

CaptainPants

Its one of those words that means different things to different people:

To U.S. conservatives it means 'left winger'. And is basically a curse-word.

To far-lefties it means a centrist milquetoast whose opinions aren't strong enough, and are thus basically an apologist for the right. It a curse-word to them too.

In Europe it usually means a centrist of some sort, and is not a curse word.

To me it means anybody who is willing to engage in rational debate with people they disagree with. Thus you can be a left wing or right wing liberal - as long as you value rational debate over slurs, no-platforming, misrepresenting opponents views and shutting down honest conversations - which is a major problem on the Trumpian far-right. But it also a problem on the mainstream left nowadays. They generally see the above techniques as a toolkit, and not as things to be avoided.

I wouldn't use Dave Rubin as an example of a liberal anymore - his Libertarian stuff on Rogan's podcast a few weeks ago was pretty fringe right-wing to me, even if he's still socially liberal.

kuntboy

Because conservatives are sick of being told what to think and labelled and reviled if they disagree. They're sick of the propaganda and they ain't fukcing buying it. Most of the world outside the west is watching from a distance and they aint buying it either

Extreme Left and Extreme Right are two sides of the same coin. Each are probably responsible for pushing much of their target demographic away. Also, Right Wing has become a filthy term just as much as Liberal has.

CaptainPants

CaptainPants wrote: »

To far-lefties it means a centrist milquetoast whose opinions aren't strong enough, and are thus basically an apologist for the right. It a curse-word to them too.

I don't know what that is but I want it now. Sounds fcuking delicious.

CaptainPants

Yeah Id imagine its something like French toast with Maple Syrup, mmm.

Id just means a spineless person who agrees with whoever they happens to be talking to or tries to triangulate between them. "Ah now in fairness lads..."

super_furry

Not sure it has outside of places like After Hours or Voat where there's a very specific group of people trying to push an agenda.

JohnMc1

Violet Scruffy Minibus wrote: »

Liberal used to mean tolerant, broad minded and accepting of those whose opinion differs from yours.

Nowadays, many of those who think of themselves as liberals, are actually the most aggressive in defence of their views and determined to shape society according to their opinions and their ideas. They have no time for anyone who has what they regard as conservative opinions, and think it's okay to belittle them and jeer at them and try to suppress their right to have an opinion, express their beliefs etc..

Those people are actually the very opposite of liberal and are actually intolerant dictators.

The sad irony of this is that these very same people will turn around and call Conservatives Nazis and fascists. The only Nazis and Fascists around are themselves.

RIGOLO

TheIrishGrover wrote: »

I
But liberal thinking is what progresses us as a people. Ireland would originally have been considered a very conservative country (especially in relation to mainland Europe) and is still, in many ways still considered so.

But here's the thing: Liberal thinking gave women the vote; allowed equal rights for people regardless of gender, race, creed or sexual orientation (In theory anyway); the ability for people to marry who they want; freed the slaves; improved living standards etc....

Good topic. 
Its not black and white, The Liberal Party were the party in power for much of the Womens suffragette movement and inflicted much of the pain on them. Whilst it was the conservative party that was in power when the most compreshensive age related womens vote bills were passed. 
So its not always clear who was and wasnt or is and isnt a liberal. 
It comes down to how well you know your history and also what aspect your talking about. Theres been plenty liberal thinking policys put thru by conservative governments.  
If you go stateside then you can consider the rise of Reagan and Nixon before him as a backlash of ordinary moderates against what could be seen as rising liberal militaincy. 

Personally I think like all terms they become bad words when they lose their meaning and are abused by people who might claime to be a liberal but are not .

GingerLily

kuntboy wrote: »

Because conservatives are sick of being told what to think and labelled and reviled if they disagree.

And liberals and sick of being controlled by outdated and socially regressive laws which conservatives are fighting to keep. Freedom of speech is one thing, but fighting for laws that restrict others liberty is another.

TheIrishGrover

So, the general consensus (And one I agree with) is that it's not so much liberal thinking as opposed to the current trend for militant liberals to basically demonize those that do not share their opinions. That is pretty much what I thought the outcome would be. It's a trend that is prevalent on both/all sides of the argument. I detest militant liberals who bash those who disagree with them just as much as I detest militant conservatives who bash those who disagree with them.

Unfortunately so much of this is tied up with politics that it is hard to untangle them and the so-called debates descend into name calling and toxic arguments.

As stated, I would consider myself a liberal but certainly not an extremist. In my opinion ANY extremism is narrow-minded and bigoted. Unfortunately in the current climate it seems that there is very little middle ground. I know that media only reports extremes but you don't need to check out media outlets to see how nasty these debates turn, even here in Ireland and how quickly. It is a pity. Ah well.

Sponge25

When they start acting like treacherous lunatics.