RTE Interview

Soarer

Just got to listen to that interview.

The man is a buffoon!
Buys a REx, but trades it in for a normal hybrid because "I can just fill it up and head away!".

Fair play to Anton for trying to keep him on the straight and narrow. I just wish he'd asked him why he couldn't just refill the REx and keep driving in Cashel.

Old diesel

Soarer wrote: »

Just got to listen to that interview.

The man is a buffoon!
Buys a REx, but trades it in for a normal hybrid because "I can just fill it up and head away!".

Fair play to Anton for trying to keep him on the straight and narrow. I just wish he'd asked him why he couldn't just refill the REx and keep driving in Cashel.

Not sure about Anton tbh.

I'd rather we had someone like Jan Bart* on to explain what he is able to do trip wise with a 22 kwh Zoe when the infrastructure is good.

You then have a balanced arguement and a listener can hopefully get a better understanding.

*North Cork based you tuber who does trips back to Holland in his 22 kwh Zoe.

Old diesel

Soarer wrote: »

Just got to listen to that interview.

The man is a buffoon!
Buys a REx, but trades it in for a normal hybrid because "I can just fill it up and head away!".

Fair play to Anton for trying to keep him on the straight and narrow. I just wish he'd asked him why he couldn't just refill the REx and keep driving in Cashel.

Not sure about Anton tbh.

I'd rather we had someone like Jan Bart* on to explain what he is able to do trip wise with a 22 kwh Zoe when the infrastructure is good.

You then have a balanced arguement and a listener can hopefully get a better understanding.

*North Cork based you tuber who does trips back to Holland in his 22 kwh Zoe.

ELM327

And that's the point. There should be - like all the recent tv shows - one positive and one negative experience.

The likes of Jan-Bart is a great example. (I follow his youtube series amongst other EV channels). He's always around the country, that little Zoe must not have a clue what mad yoke has bought it!!

I'd like to ask the OP what their EV is, as I'm detecting a very negative outlook.
@OP in the interests of open conversation can you confirm:
A) If you were the person on the RTÉ programme
If you currently have an EV?

DrPhilG

Old diesel wrote: »

I'd rather we had someone like Jan Bart* on to explain what he is able to do trip wise with a 22 kwh Zoe when the infrastructure is good.

The infrastructure is crap. The last thing we need is anyone trying to be positive about it.

ELM327

DrPhilG wrote: »

The infrastructure is crap. The last thing we need is anyone trying to be positive about it.

I've often said that the infrastructure is pathetic, and even calling it "infrastructure" or "a network" is delusional as it's not. It's a loosely scattered disjointed mess of single point failures.


But if the message going out is not balanced then no one will buy an EV, there will be no commercial viability for a charging network and the situation will never change. Free, crap, abused and unreliable.


It's difficult because on one hand you have the ecar apologists and on the other hand you have people like me who are hardline raving loonies against the crap state of the network. But you need to facilitate adoption in order to drive change.


Also. People buying the newer EVs with home charging are less likely to need the public network., I know in my Ioniq compared to my L24 leaf its a massive reduction. And my home charger is not even installed yet/

Old diesel

DrPhilG wrote: »

Old diesel wrote: »

I'd rather we had someone like Jan Bart* on to explain what he is able to do trip wise with a 22 kwh Zoe when the infrastructure is good.

The infrastructure is crap. The last thing we need is anyone trying to be positive about it.

I was more thinking of how Jan Barts trips are more viable due to UK and Dutch having infrastructure that's less crap then ours.

By good infrastructure I mean outside Ireland

goz83

ELM327 wrote: »

I'd like to ask the OP what their EV is, as I'm detecting a very negative outlook.
@OP in the interests of open conversation can you confirm:
A) If you were the person on the RTÉ programme
If you currently have an EV?

I don't think the OP is the guy from the interview. Nor would he admit it if he were. The interviewee couldn't wrap his head around miles and kilometres, so I would have expected him to grasp that range anxiety is not something which exists when you have a REX.

DrPhilG wrote: »

The infrastructure is crap. The last thing we need is anyone trying to be positive about it.

Yes, it's rubbish alright. But that interview was awful, without balance and factually incorrect.

His comment on terraced houses not being able to get a home charger for example. Any EV owner knows you can get a CP in your driveway (and many terraced houses have driveways) but he made it sound like a terraced house can't have a CP installed. My inlaws and 2 of their neighbours live in terraced houses and have CPs installed.

ELM327

goz83 wrote: »

I don't think the OP is the guy from the interview. Nor would he admit it if he were. The interviewee couldn't wrap his head around miles and kilometres, so I would have expected him to grasp that range anxiety is not something which exists when you have a REX.

He's very biased, which is why my comment is left there. I don't see a follow up post from the OP but if you do post again OP i'd like an answer to the questions I mentioned.

goz83 wrote: »

Yes, it's rubbish alright. But that interview was awful, without balance and factually incorrect.

His comment on terraced houses not being able to get a home charger for example. Any EV owner knows you can get a CP in your driveway (and many terraced houses have driveways) but he made it sound like a terraced house can't have a CP installed. My inlaws and 2 of their neighbours live in terraced houses and have CPs installed.

And his comment about apartments. I live in an apartment and am having a CP installed.

Villain

ELM327 wrote: »

I'd like to ask the OP what their EV is, as I'm detecting a very negative outlook.
@OP in the interests of open conversation can you confirm:
A) If you were the person on the RTÉ programme
If you currently have an EV?

I wasn't the person in the interview.

I don't currently have an EV, I owned and drove a new 142 Leaf SVE with 24kwh for 2 years.

The negative outlook is based on the mess here in this country, the CRU decision is going to hold us back a decade if not more. See my post for more of my thoughts on that http://www.oreilly.ie/future-of-electric-vehicle-public-charging-infrastructure/

My issue here is IEVOA are more concerned about lodging a silly complaint about an interview rather than highlight the issues that were raised and also put out the positives. BAI rules don't mean you have balance every interview btw.

Do you really think the SOR show will be more likely to let IEVOA put across their view after a BAI complaint rather than contacting them looking for an opportunity to share more information on behalf of members?

I would say though I didn't join the IEVOA when I was an EV owner because of too much of a blind view on all the positives been aired but not enough of the issues.

ELM327

Villain wrote: »

I wasn't the person in the interview.

I don't currently have an EV, I owned and drove a new 142 Leaf SVE with 24kwh for 2 years.

Thanks for the clarification


I suspect you're subconsciously siding with the interviewee as you had a similar experience yourself. Thats perfectly understandable, and it is a view that should be presented.


As it is a realistic viewpoint of somoene who had an EV and decided that it wasnt for them. To be honest I'd give your opinion more weight than the buffoon on the radio as at least you owned yours for long enough to form a realistic opinion.

Villain wrote: »

The negative outlook is based on the mess here in this country, the CRU decision is going to hold us back a decade if not more. See my post for more of my thoughts on that http://www.oreilly.ie/future-of-electric-vehicle-public-charging-infrastructure/

My issue here is IEVOA are more concerned about lodging a silly complaint about an interview rather than highlight the issues that were raised and also put out the positives. BAI rules don't mean you have balance every interview btw.

Do you really think the SOR show will be more likely to let IEVOA put across their view after a BAI complaint rather than contacting them looking for an opportunity to share more information on behalf of members?

I would say though I didn't join the IEVOA when I was an EV owner because of too much of a blind view on all the positives been aired but not enough of the issues.

My point is that, as much as your experiences deserve airtime, they should also be balanced by someone who has the opposite experience. I did 50k per year for nearly 2 years in an L24 leaf, and now I have an Ioniq.
I agree the network is crap but it doesn't impact me so much as the range is so much better now. I don't even look at the percentage guage at all these days, only the gom if I'm going on a long trip.


RE the IEVOA on SOR in the future, The outcome of the complaint may force them to be included. I'm not familiar with the BAI rules - or for that matter the ievoa - but at least they are doing something.

creedp

ELM327 wrote: »

My point is that, as much as your experiences deserve airtime, they should also be balanced by someone who has the opposite experience. I did 50k per year for nearly 2 years in an L24 leaf, and now I have an Ioniq.
I agree the network is crap but it doesn't impact me so much as the range is so much better now. I don't even look at the percentage guage at all these days, only the gom if I'm going on a long trip. .

The problem is though if you are trying to encourage EV skeptics bad PR around the public charging infrastructure is sufficient for many not to take the plunge. People I talk to about the Leaf are more interested in the max range of the car and how I would manage longer journeys even if they represent only a tiny % of total journeys undertaken. When I tell them that there is only 1 chargepoint per location and the locations are very few and far between making it possible, in the absence of planning ahead, to end up with a flat battery in the middle of nowhere or queuing for an hour or more to charge makes them rather less interested in acquiring an EV at this point in time.

I'm not being overly negative here and I give them the full rundown of my situation which includes a 140km daily commute but the problem is a lot of people don't want to be in a situation where they can't hop into their expensive car and head to where they want to go without being unduly delayed due to having to charge an EV. The downright unfit for purpose public charging infrastructure is a real roadblock to EV uptake for many at this point.

ELM327

creedp wrote: »

The problem is though if you are trying to encourage EV skeptics bad PR around the public charging infrastructure is sufficient for many not to take the plunge. People I talk to about the Leaf are more interested in the max range of the car and how I would manage longer journeys even if they represent only a tiny % of total journeys undertaken. When I tell them that there is only 1 chargepoint per location and the locations are very few and far between making it possible, in the absence of planning ahead, to end up with a flat battery in the middle of nowhere or queuing for an hour or more to charge makes them rather less interested in acquiring an EV at this point in time.

I'm not being overly negative here and I give them the full rundown of my situation which includes a 140km daily commute but the problem is a lot of people don't want to be in a situation where they can't hop into their expensive car and head to where they want to go without being unduly delayed due to having to charge an EV. The downright unfit for purpose public charging infrastructure is a real roadblock to EV uptake for many at this point.

The modern cars are not affected by this as much as before. I will not need to use the public network at all once my home charger is installed at my apartment (despite all 3 people on the radio show saying this didnt happen), other than in a very blue moon. I can get to westport, to wexford etc without charging. I do 50-60k per year. With no public charger use at all, really.



You can't expect to buy a 2011 leaf and have the same luxury, but if your commute is 20km-40km each way then you could have the same thing with home charging. Everyone must find a pricepoint.


Infrastructure is crap but that's not the point here.

ELM327

ELM327 wrote: »

Also. People buying the newer EVs with home charging are less likely to need the public network., I know in my Ioniq compared to my L24 leaf its a massive reduction. And my home charger is not even installed yet/

Yes and no, if you have a 300 Km Kona for instance and want to go on a road trip then you will need public charging be it AC or DC, now, if there are 20,000 electric cars on the road and everyone is heading off for the weekend then they will need public charging and the current network is hardly capable of supporting the few electrics on the road at the moment never mind 20,000.

So while longer range electrics will need far less charging over all compared to low range electrics the need for public charging will grow enormously over the next 10 years because they will be going away for weekends or a week, it's hard for us EV owners to think beyond our home charger until we go out and about or head off for a day or weekend and don't forget that there are many people who will never have home charging making them 100% dependent on the public network which they would be stone mad to do so at this point in time.

Ionity plan about 4 sites of 4 chargers by Q4 2019 along major motorway routes but we need a lot more than that.

A brand new garage opened up at Mac Donalds Naas there at the tesco close to the existing fast charger and not a single fast charger on site , it should be law.

The Government have failed the Irish people big time in regards to providing a proper public charging network.

Most of us can live without 1GB fibre to the door ffs but yet they and Eir seem hell bent on installing a very expensive fibre and very unessential fibre network to the middle of nowhere. I live in the sticks and use three 4G and get between 30-50 Mbs and 750 GB for 29 Euro's PM, even if fibre passed my garden I would not subscribe to it and I don't expect fibre to be a priority.

Eir had the potential to install a very good 4G network and didn't, I had eir and got rid of it after a week, diabolical reception anywhere outside a decent town.

Anyway, I would deem a proper EV charging infrastructure far more essential than wasting money installing unessential 1GB internet to homes in the sticks !

ELM327

ELM327 wrote: »

Infrastructure is crap but that's not the point here.

Infrastructure is exactly the point, people rarely see ev chargers like they do petrol pumps therefore the perception among the public is that there is little to no chargers around and think that they can't have an EV until it improves.

The majority of the motoring public are not EV enthusiasts or even car enthusiasts and won't put up with a fraction of the hassle that we ev owners currently do.

Calahonda52

Villian,
Any chance of putting a date on the blog articles? without a date they lack temporal context.

ELM327

Deleted User wrote: »

Infrastructure is exactly the point, people rarely see ev chargers like they do petrol pumps therefore the perception among the public is that there is little to no chargers around and think that they can't have an EV until it improves.

The majority of the motoring public are not EV enthusiasts or even car enthusiasts and won't put up with a fraction of the hassle that we ev owners currently do.

I will have no hassle. My car can do 200km and despite doing over 50k a year I rarely exceed that. No use of public charging at all.


The Kona will have 300+km
The ones after will have 400-500km.


"Infrastructure was not the point" - when I said this I meant of the thread, the thread was for discussing the rte program and the complaint made.

Villain

Calahonda52 wrote: »

Villian,
Any chance of putting a date on the blog articles? without a date they lack temporal context.

Ah will do, there is an archive to right that shows date, the CRU one is from October 2017.

I think those that try to enforce the idea that the public network is good are the ones doing more actual harm than not because while it maybe nice to get more electrics on the road trying to convince people that the network is good is actually very unfair to those who do not know any better and this might try convince the ESB that they don't need to install more chargers, the same ESB who not long ago tried to convince us that the network is adequate for the amount of electrics on the road.

ELM327

Deleted User wrote: »

I think those that try to enforce the idea that the public network is good are the ones doing more actual harm than not because while it maybe nice to get more electrics on the road trying to convince people that the network is good is actually very unfair to those who do not know any better and this might try convince the ESB that they don't need to install more chargers, the same ESB who not long ago tried to convince us that the network is adequate for the amount of electrics on the road.

I hope that's not directed at me

ELM327 wrote: »

I've often said that the infrastructure is pathetic, and even calling it "infrastructure" or "a network" is delusional as it's not. It's a loosely scattered disjointed mess of single point failures.


But if the message going out is not balanced then no one will buy an EV, there will be no commercial viability for a charging network and the situation will never change. Free, crap, abused and unreliable.


It's difficult because on one hand you have the ecar apologists and on the other hand you have people like me who are hardline raving loonies against the crap state of the network. But you need to facilitate adoption in order to drive change.

As for RTE, many times I got as far as the researcher Joe Duffy show who would not give me the time of day because I did not have anything negative to say about electric cars and really , they do seem to have a pro feminist, anti ev and anti Trump agenda in full swing.

ELM327

ELM327 wrote: »

I hope that's not directed at me

Not in the slightest.

ELM327

ELM327 wrote: »

I will have no hassle. My car can do 200km and despite doing over 50k a year I rarely exceed that. No use of public charging at all.


The Kona will have 300+km
The ones after will have 400-500km.


"Infrastructure was not the point" - when I said this I meant of the thread, the thread was for discussing the rte program and the complaint made.

As I said it matters not the range because at some point people will need to charge, your requirements will be different to countless others.

An ev can have 500 or 800 kms range, all people care about is being able to charge while out and about and charge times.

Lots of people go for weekend trips or away for a week or even 2 and they won't have home charging.

People could have a 100 Kwh EV and not plug it in for a week and then suddenly need to go somewhere and then they need public charging, there are all sorts of scenarios where a 300 Km range EV will suit most of the time, myself included but there are times that range is not suitable and this is where the network needs to improve to cater for the increase of ev sales in the coming years.

goz83

Deleted User wrote: »

the same ESB who not long ago tried to convince us that the network is adequate for the amount of electrics on the road.

Which wouldn't be true even if all existing chargers were working.

ELM327

goz83 wrote: »

Which wouldn't be true even if all existing chargers were working.

Unless all existing FCP were replaced with banks of 2, and replaced with 4 in the cities and on MSA.

Deleted User wrote: »

As I said it matters not the range because at some point people will need to charge, your requirements will be different to countless others.

An ev can have 500 or 800 kms range, all people care about is being able to charge while out and about and charge times.

Lots of people go for weekend trips or away for a week or even 2 and they won't have home charging.

People could have a 100 Kwh EV and not plug it in for a week and then suddenly need to go somewhere and then they need public charging, there are all sorts of scenarios where a 300 Km range EV will suit most of the time, myself included but there are times that range is not suitable and this is where the network needs to improve to cater for the increase of ev sales in the coming years.

Is this where the rex comes in handy DONT SHOOT ME

ELM327

ELM327 wrote: »

Is this where the rex comes in handy DONT SHOOT ME

That's where the Rex is essential ! wouldn't have wasted money if the situation with public charging was different I didn't go from lower range EV to longer range EV with Rex for fun , I could have put the money to other uses.

creedp

ELM327 wrote: »

The modern cars are not affected by this as much as before. I will not need to use the public network at all once my home charger is installed at my apartment (despite all 3 people on the radio show saying this didnt happen), other than in a very blue moon. I can get to westport, to wexford etc without charging. I do 50-60k per year. With no public charger use at all, really.



You can't expect to buy a 2011 leaf and have the same luxury, but if your commute is 20km-40km each way then you could have the same thing with home charging. Everyone must find a pricepoint.


Infrastructure is crap but that's not the point here.

The modern / expensive EVs have longer range but many people do not buy new cars or can't afford the investment required to get a decent range EV on the road. For many who don't do massive mileage but have regular longish trips outside urban Ireland, its easy to delay a decision to move from an ICE at this point in time. This is even more so the case with young families as there is no reasonably sized / priced equivalent to an MPV out there at present.

I have an EV but to be honest if I was offered an equivalent sized ICE and EV with similar running costs I would still opt for the ICE as it provides a more reliable means of meeting all my journey requirements at this point in time particularly as I have 4 kids.

In any case, its not completely down to me because while I would be prepared to take the risk of relying on public charging on longer journeys, my wife wouldn't and my kids would go crazy if we ended up hanging around for potentially a couple of works waiting to charge plus charging time.

Calahonda52

Villain wrote: »

Ah will do, there is an archive to right that shows date, the CRU one is from October 2017.

OCT 2017 ! : Time to dust off the gatling, break out a full 9 yds box of ammo and deal with the new kids in town:

1. the multi-car taxi drivers
2. the Teslas hogging the FCPs as well as the other on street CPs.
3. the increase in number of EVs

ps: you may need another box

Villain

Calahonda52 wrote: »

OCT 2017 ! : Time to dust off the gatling, break out a full 9 yds of ammo and deal with the new kids in town:

1. the multi-car taxi drivers
2. the Teslas hogging the FCPs as well as the other on street CPs.
3. the increase in number of EVs

ps: you may need another box

Well nothing has changed regarding the CRU decision or investment really since then sadly!

cros13

creedp wrote: »

The modern / expensive EVs have longer range but many people do not buy new cars or can't afford the investment required to get a decent range EV on the road.

Well the problem there is that unless people buy the cars new they won't be available used in quantity in 3-4 years time.

That's one of the advantages of Norway's approach of just exempting EVs from VAT and registration taxes. People who would otherwise buy 5-series actually go and buy a Model S and people who'd normally buy used, buy new.