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Cannabis - It must be time for legality.

Schwanz

I'm not a smoker but the benefits of this "drug" for medical use is quite remarkable really.

Recreational use.... you never ever hear of a stoner going mental and attacking people or the Police, what's the harm? Surely alcohol is more dangerous.

Thoughts....? & kudos to Canada btw. Well done to them.

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ceadaoin.

Chewbacca wrote: »

It's not a weak argument as it has the potential to happen.

I have never used cannabis, mainly because it is illegal not because I havent had the opportunity.

If it becomes legal for all, maybe I will.

I live where it is legal, I haven't noticed an increase in people stoned out of their heads wandering around the place and by all accounts, the police haven't either.

doolox

If one looks back on the historical context of banning cannabis you can see a selective discrimination of banning a substance that is cheap, effective and in direct competition with alcohol. Most people drink alcohol to dull the pain of a pointless and painful semi existence in a world of semi slavery working to enrich some dominant and over powerful boss in some pointless and infuriatingly boring job until you die. People in western societies use alcohol to dull the pain.

People in other societies used marijuana or cannabis or hemp to dull the pain of their increasingly painful existences. Queen Victoria swore by it and used it asidiously before it was made illegal.

The Americans are to blame for making most drugs illegal, think puritanism and the prohibition mindset that plagued the world with total alcohol prohibition starting in the 1920's. This not only effected the US but seemingly sensible countries like Norway, Finland and Iceland where alcohol control and prohibition was implemented with similar failed results to the disastrous near civil war that resulted in the US in the 1920's and early 30's.

The zealots in charge of alcohol prohibition authorised the deliberate poisoning of industrial alcohol with methyl alcohol and strychnine in order to attempt to prevent people from drinking it. This caused 50,000 deaths in the US in the period of prohibition from 1919 to 1933. This was sanctioned and approved by the government!!!.

A similar problem exists with the production, trading and consumption of cannabis, there is no regulation or quality control or way to gauge the strength, nature or toxicity of what you buy from unregulated and illegal sources. You could be smoking turf for all you know.

People who live sheltered middle class lives, free from all temptation and inclination to use drugs will never be in a position to understand or legislate for the trade, use, or involvement in what are now illegal drugs. People are now formulating new drugs in order to circumvent laws banning them from sale. The law makers then have to enact new laws banning these new and artificial drugs from being sold. There is an arms race scenario going on between drug makers and law makers with the people of most countries being caught in the middle like cannon fodder.

What needs to happen is a serious, non judgemental conversation at all levels concerning how we approach drugs in the future. Similar to the recent peoples forum om the 8th amendment, where we can short circuit the vote greedy, cowardly and anodyne politicians out of the equation and get real peoples views on the subject, people with no vested interest in virtue signalling in the fear of losing "respectable" peoples votes and people on the coalface of life who see the impact of the prohibition and marginalisation of drug use in western society.

There might be insight for all.

Pro drug users might see to need to control and moderate their use of drugs in order to pursue their career goals and enhance their lives and stay functional in ever more demanding jobs.

Anti drug users might see that moderate drug use of regulated, legally controlled drugs in small and controlled amounts in controlled and honest and regulated circumstances may not be the end of the world. The true facts need to be dragged out into the open and discussed in an honest, dispassionate and informed way. This cannot happen in the present puritanical and hysterically ignorant and puritanical legal framework we endure today, no thanks to the Americans.

_Brian

I fully support medicinal cannabis but I wouldn’t support recreational use.

My own experiences are that it damages people and is indeed often a gateway to harder drugs.

People who say legalising it will remove the criminal element need to look at tobacco and the sheer volume of illegal tobacco being pedalled openly everywhere which no doubt feeds illegal groups. Part legitimising another income stream can’t be the way forward. I would have a similar view to prostitution, it damages people and allows for trafficking of women to be hidden in the numbers.

[Deleted User]

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

criminals who are making anywhere from thousands to millions on this trade

So your answer is to continue to leave what is essentially a supply and demand industry in the hands of such criminal enterprises? How is that in anyway a solution? Declaring certain drugs as ‘banned substances’ has utterly failed as a strategy in stopping people getting their hands on them. Need to stop wasting the precious time of the forces of law & order in trying to enforce such methods.

DickSwiveller

Why, when there is a huge campaign underway to deter people from smoking cigarettes, would you legalise another dangerous drug. It's baffling. And the alleged medical benefits are greatly over hyped.

DickSwiveller

Deleted User wrote: »

So your answer is to continue to leave what is essentially a supply and demand industry in the hands of such criminal enterprises? How is that in anyway a solution? Declaring certain drugs as ‘banned substances’ has utterly failed as a strategy in stopping people getting their hands on them. Need to stop wasting the precious time of the forces of law & order in trying to enforce such methods.

Why is it better to put it in the hands of cynical businessmen?

freddie1970

DickSwiveller wrote: »

Why, when there is a huge campaign underway to deter people from smoking cigarettes, would you legalise another dangerous drug. It's baffling. And the alleged medical benefits are greatly over hyped.

believe me the benefits are not over hyped

AndyBoBandy

DickSwiveller wrote: »

Why is it better to put it in the hands of cynical businessmen?

Businessmen must follow certain rules & regulations?

Rules & regulations that drug dealers don’t give a toss about.

Mutant z

If people want to have it for recreational use then surely its their own business.

Schwanz

I know a lot of non stoner couples who use it to enhance their sex life and they bother nobody.

Wonder drug if you ask me

buried

DickSwiveller wrote: »

Why is it better to put it in the hands of cynical businessmen?

You know this answer yourself man. Top Businesses run on share prices, which dictates that the product they produce is of good quality that can be tailored to create and satisfy all sorts of markets to increase share price. War on the stock market. Street Criminals deal in different system which involves no share price, it is war on the street, same streets me and you have to walk on.

_Dara_

Weed did the square root of fuck all for my cancer pain, tbh. I’m fine with it being legalised but I do think the medicinal properties might be a tad overhyped.

buried

_Dara_ wrote: »

Weed did the square root of fuck all for my cancer pain, tbh. I’m fine with it being legalised but I do think the medicinal properties might be a tad overhyped.

If you don't mind me asking D, What form of cannabis were you taking for it?

Signore Fancy Pants

This post has been deleted.

wexie

_Dara_ wrote: »

Weed did the square root of fuck all for my cancer pain, tbh. I’m fine with it being legalised but I do think the medicinal properties might be a tad overhyped.

Thing is though, if you got it in Ireland....chances are it wasn't very good and I'd take a guess it wasn't medicinal.

I'm not saying that any other quality or type would work, but what you likely got would have been the equivalent of paracetamol in the pain killer world.

DEFTLEFTHAND

The potential respiratory problems are another issue. Have you ever heard the stoner's cough, sounds like an veteran coal miner from the 1930s. Not to mention the link with lung cancer.

In a time when we seem to be heading towards eventually banning the sale of tobacco it would seem strange to introduce this.

Personally speaking however I don't mind what choices people make in regards to their own bodies and health.

I smoked cigs and regularly binged drinked for 10 years so I'm not in a position to judge anybody.

_Dara_

wexie wrote: »

Thing is though, if you got it in Ireland....chances are it wasn't very good and I'd take a guess it wasn't medicinal.

I'm not saying that any other quality or type would work, but what you likely got would have been the equivalent of paracetamol in the pain killer world.

Paracetamol is actually a highly effective painkiller for me. Much better than weed. Don’t knock the ol’ paracetamol, it’s pretty fantastic.

buried

I find the CBD oil highly effective. No THC in it whatsoever but it is highly effective on a regular dose for pro-longed relaxed mindset and anti-anxiety. It is also a great anti-inflammatory IMO, I have bad skin, real bad not psoriasis but not far off, since I've been regular dosing CBD my skin condition has improved a great great deal. Could be a placebo, could also be my mindset has improved 100% since I've been taking two drops of that stuff a day for the last few months which took the stress off that could have been affecting my skin and god knows what else.
I used to smoke weed but the quality of product here was so poor and the THC so strong I couldn't enjoy it any more. Go to Amsterdam and legally get what suits me, buy a product that is regulated and suits my limit so I know what I am dealing with, and it's a totally different story.

Dick Rimmington

This!!!

Mutant z wrote: »

If people want to have it for recreational use then surely its their own business.

We need to stop trying to babysit adults. Cannabis can be very helpful for people, be it to help them sleep, raise their appetite, manage pain or simply unwind after a long day in work.
It doesnt matter why people decide to use it, its nobodies business as long as they are adults.
Anything can be abused but there isnt even a danger of overdosing on cannabis. And legalizing/decriminalizing is not going to make it mandatory so if it's not your thing then that is perfectly fine too

wexie

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

The potential respiratory problems are another issue. Have you ever heard the stoner's cough, sounds like an veteran coal miner from the 1930s. Not to mention the link with lung cancer.

In a time when we seem to be heading towards eventually banning the sale of tobacco it would seem strange to introduce this.

Personally speaking however I don't mind what choices people make in regards to their own bodies and health.

I smoked cigs and regularly binged drinked for 10 years so I'm not in a position to judge anybody.

of course there are many other ways of 'taking' cannabis, eat it, cook with it, make tea with it etc. etc. etc.

of course you're probably right in that smoking will be the most used option.

Mountainsandh

Dick Rimmington wrote: »

This!!!

We need to stop trying to babysit adults. As with anything Cannabis can be very helpful for people, be it to help them sleep, raise their appetite, manage pain or simply unwind after a long day in work.
It doesnt matter why people decide to use it, its nobodies business as long as they are adults.
Anything can be abused but there isnt even a danger of overdosing on cannabis. And legalizing/decriminalizing is not going to make it mandatory so if it's not your thing then that is perfectly fine too

100% agree with the above, and imo a state that makes criminals of people doing something that does not affect others is not desirable.

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

Drug dealers don’t ask for ID when selling it to customers, a buyer is a buyer no matter what age they are. A regulated service would indeed check for age before dispensing it, similar to alcohol & tobacco. Will that prevent under 18’s from obtaining it and using it? Of course not, but it would certainly be more difficult for under 18’s to get it.

Also this.
And realistically, I have children who are going to be exposed to the drug scene in a few years' time as young adults. I would much rather they would have a safe option of a regulated, clean product from a store, rather than have them procure something from somewhere shady.

You know, just like if they're going to drink alcohol, well I know it's unlikely it'll be some poteen or other alcoholic concoction made in someone's shed, when they can simply buy a bottle in a shop (or have it served in a pub).

Humans'll be humans. We like using mind altering substances as a species, it's not anything new really. What's new is science, and how we can now tell that Cannabis and alcohol are less harmful than crystal meth, Lsd, heroine etc...

Given that, I'd rather my little human specimens had that choice of relatively safer psychotropics (if it gets to it, which it might never of course).

beertons

Better get down to the shop before there's a rush on munchies.

Potential-Monke

I really just should just have this saved somewhere so I can say the same in every weed thread that comes up.

In my 10 years of being a Garda, I've never arrested someone for being stoned and committing a crime. It just doesn't happen. Some criminals may have cannabis in their system, but the main intoxicant that caused them to commit the crime is usually a class A or alcohol. I've arrested 1 person for having cannabis, and that's because he tried to sell to an off-duty student Garda. The drugs unit went after the dealers, and I had found young fellas with it on them, but if it was the only thing they had and they weren't involved in another crime, I let them off with a warning and confiscated the weed. Why? Because I didn't want to take away some young fellas opportunity to get into America due to having the bones of a 25 or 50 bag on them.

I would easily say that in the vast majority of cases I was investigated, aside from road traffic incidents, alcohol was involved. Burglary, theft, public order, domestic abuse, I can honestly say that alcohol was a contributing factor in about 90% of them. Throw in cocaine, heroin and MDMA (to a very lesser extent) into some of those cases too. I've never come across a case of any crime where the criminal was doing it to feed a weed habit, or because they were high.

The general consensus is that weed smokers don't commit crime because they're too busy eating the crap food aisle of Tesco, ordering take aways and sitting at home. This could change if it was legalised, as smoking cafes would become a thing, and idiots would try to drink and smoke at the same time and not do it in the correct order (smoke, pint, smoke, pint, etc) and end up pulling a whitey and going to sleep wherever they are. That's the worse outcome imo. Night in the cells, public order fine, out the gap. A stoner won't put up a fight, because they're usually not able to/couldn't be bothered. Stoners don't come to the attention of Gardaí like a drunk or coked up person would.

If it was legalised, you would see an increase in consumption, but it would die down very quick imo. People would figure out if it's for them or not. Legalise it and it will take a LOT of dealers off the streets. Will they look for income elsewhere? Probably, but a lot of weed dealers do it just to get their own for free, as it's so bloody expensive! Plus, you don't know what you're getting. If it's legal, it would be like going into Next Door and picking out your tipple for the night. Clean, guaranteed strains, properly labelled with THC/CBD content, possible side effects and expected type of stone. It would be taxed and bring in so much money in tax, the gubberment may even reduce taxes elsewhere! Probably not though, knowing our greedy feckers!

I'm all for legalisation. I'm no longer a Garda, and since quitting, I've discovered so many people smoke it. I know one lad who worked his way up to co-director of an IT Infrastructure company. He's a fully functioning stoner, with a wife, 2 kids, a mortgage, and you wouldn't even think he smokes. His missus gives out, but not a word said on the bottle of wine she drinks every night/2 nights, and even more at the weekend. He's spending less than he was when drinking, and would spend even less if it was legalised.

Yes, there will be mental health issues, but most independent studies have shown that weed exacerbates a pre-existing mental health condition, one you may not know you had until you smoked it. This is where personal responsibility comes into it. We have no issues with personal responsibility with alcohol, ignoring/not really tackling the fact that people over indulge. But this will happen with any product. Some people don't know when to stop/quite/cut back. It's why we have alcoholics. Same will be with weed, but imo, to a lesser extent. The tax revenue should be used to set up drug rehabilitation centres for such reasons.

And you'll have some Gardaí stating it's as bad as heroin, but there's idiots in every job.

Arrival

seamus wrote: »

The medicinal uses are very overhyped tbh.

All the social media articles would have you believe that it's a wonder drug, when realistically very few proper studies have confirmed any medicinal use.

That's not to say I'm against legalisation, but be honest about the fact that you just want to get high, don't use pop science and anecdotes to pretend you're looking for medicine. You're not, you're looking to get off your tits. And that's fine.

You realise why that is, right? Like, people that raise this point understand that in depth studies cannot be easily done on illegal substances?

Malayalam

On a kind of side note Michael Pollan, he of 'Eat food, Not a lot, Mostly plants' fame, has recently published a book called How To Change Your Mind about the use of psychedelics for treatment of mental illness among other things, and he has been giving a few talks of late, including a recent one at Google and a longer interview with Joe Rogan. He points out that since SSRIs there have been hardly any advances in treatment of poor mental health and that the area is notoriously difficult to deal with, but that in the last couple of years since the post 60s drugs panic finally died off there has been a big uptick in academic research in the area and the studies are finding significantly positive results. Paul Stamets is another interesting guy in the area of useful psychoactive substances.

Arrival

Pyr0 wrote: »

I know people who are mentally and physically fried from alcohol abuse or have died from smoking related cancers.

If anything, legalise it to take it away from the dealers and tax the f*ck out of it.

God, I hate this "tax the **** out of it" trope, it's actually counterproductive to one of the biggest reasons and positives of legalising drugs; fighting the black market. If the legal drug is taxed highly then it allows the black market to remain competitive. It would need to be taxed so that it can be fairly priced.

wexie

Arrival wrote: »

You realise why that is, right? Like, people that raise this point understand that in depth studies cannot be easily done on illegal substances?

Aside from the whole legality issue there's still a huge stigma to overcome.

There is plenty of evidence to suggest THC and/or CBD can be hugely beneficial in the treatment of pain, anxiety, PTSD and a whole range of other things.

But exactly like you said the studies aren't being done because it's either a complete bureaucratic nightmare or just outright impossible.

That's aside from the whole fact that for many medical professionals it would just be career suicide in the current climate to even be associated with studies such as these.

Billy86

freddie1970 wrote: »

I have crohns disease and believe me this stuff is a life saver ..my other options steriods and humira and look at the side effects from them ..

Funny that, I had a friend who was actually the same. Had to drink those horrendous purple drink jobbies, but after smoking a small bit of weed he would be able to put down a sandwich and fruit.

If people are more informed about different strains and their effects then they can take what suits ..

Also really important. I usually have 2-3 grams in the house to get me to sleep if I need it (maybe 4-6 nights a month, but sleeping pills are fecking terrifying) but in Ireland you never know what you're getting. Last time I wound up with some really mild sativa, whoop-dee-doo no sleep for me so!

wexie

Malayalam wrote: »

On a kind of side note Michael Pollan, he of 'Eat food, Not a lot, Mostly plants' fame, has recently published a book called How To Change Your Mind about the use of psychedelics for treatment of mental illness among other things, and he has been giving a few talks of late, including a recent one at Google and a longer interview with Joe Rogan. He points out that since SSRIs there have been hardly any advances in treatment of poor mental health and that the area is notoriously difficult to deal with, but that in the last couple of years since the post 60s drugs panic finally died off there has been a big uptick in academic research in the area and the studies are finding significantly positive results. Paul Stamets is another interesting guy in the area of useful psychoactive substances.

There's a study being done in Dublin on the use of ketamine in depression, some interesting (and very promising) work being done with psilocybin as well in London.

But it's all just in it's infancy from what I gather

Malayalam

wexie wrote: »

There's a study being done in Dublin on the use of ketamine in depression, some interesting (and very promising) work being done with psilocybin as well in London.

But it's all just in it's infancy from what I gather

I'd be a bit nervous to try it myself at this point in life as I try to hold on to whatever titter of wit I have left but I have heard good things about DMT used therapeutically and if I found myself in a dark place I would certainly consider it seriously