Do You Like Chicken?

Malayalam

https://www.independent.ie/videos/world-news/video-harrowing-footage-released-of-animal-abuse-at-chicken-farm-37026816.html


It's about 2 minutes long. Worth a watch. I don't know, what does it take to get people to make enquiries about what they eat?
It's disgusting, in my opinion, what that video shows, and I'm sure it's pretty normal in that industry, but that probably makes me an insufferable vegetarian, or something. I would maybe...maybe...eat a bit of meat ocasionally if it was humanely produced. Fact is, it very rarely is. If an alien landed on earth and saw our regular meat industry they would quite reasonably think we are savages.

RocketRaccoon

I love chicken, eat it 4/5 times a week and no video will make me change that.

Btw you're not a vegetarian if you eat of a bit of meat occasionally.

Malayalam

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

I love chicken, eat it 4/5 times a week and no video will make me change that.

Btw you're not a vegetarian if you eat of a bit of meat occasionally.

I don't though, but thanks for the clarification.

RocketRaccoon

" I would maybe...maybe...eat a bit of meat ocasionally if it was humanely produced."

That means you're not a vegetarian.

Fr_Dougal

Malayalam wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/videos/world-news/video-harrowing-footage-released-of-animal-abuse-at-chicken-farm-37026816.html


It's about 2 minutes long. Worth a watch. I don't know, what does it take to get people to make enquiries about what they eat?
It's disgusting, in my opinion, what that video shows, and I'm sure it's pretty normal in that industry, but that probably makes me an insufferable vegetarian, or something. I would maybe...maybe...eat a bit of meat ocasionally if it was humanely produced. Fact is, it very rarely is. If an alien landed on earth and saw our regular meat industry they would quite reasonably think we are savages.

Hey, priests are the one who are supposed to preach!

squawker

Malayalam wrote: »

If an alien landed on earth and saw our regular meat industry they would quite reasonably think we are savages.

how do you know? you could in fact be their food

Malayalam

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

" I would maybe...maybe...eat a bit of meat ocasionally if it was humanely produced."

That means you're not a vegetarian.

:rolleyes:

I haven't eaten meat in 35 years, and probably won't ever, I guess that means I'm a ''very infrequent meat-eater'' then. But that's just a lot more awkward to say than I'm vegetarian. :pac:

Atlantic Dawn

I love chicken, I would say it makes up over two thirds of my meat consumption. If you looked at the source of any meat or fish you would see it's far from growing on a tree in a carbon neutral environment of your back garden it's sourced.

Malayalam

squawker wrote: »

how do you know? you could in fact be their food

I hope they like the taste of chicken-flavoured human flesh the best and I can make a run for it.

johnnyskeleton

Malayalam wrote: »

:rolleyes:

I haven't eaten meat in 35 years, and probably won't ever, I guess that means I'm a ''very infrequent meat-eater'' then. But that's just a lot more awkward to say than I'm vegetarian. :pac:

How do you get protein in your diet? Lentils and beans?

sbsquarepants

It's one of those things you just kind of push to the back of your mind. There's not really a "nice" way of killing something and eating it. Some conditions are worse than others of course, but the cold hard fact is no animal ever happily threw itself on to a dinner plate.

Malayalam

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

I love chicken, I would say it makes up over two thirds of my meat consumption. If you looked at the source of any meat or fish you would see it's far from growing on a tree in a carbon neutral environment of your back garden it's sourced.

I agree. It's a wonder though that people can look at that video and then afterwards think Mmmmmm Chickennnnnn... I don't know, just reckon it requires a bit of cognitive dissonance.

Atlantic Dawn

Malayalam wrote: »

I agree. It's a wonder though that people can look at that video and then afterwards think Mmmmmm Chickennnnnn... I don't know, just reckon it requires a bit of cognitive dissonance.

Yes I suppose the 5 Euro full chicken you sometimes see in shops in a country where the minimum hourly wage is almost double that does ask questions on the sustainability of it.

Malayalam

sbsquarepants wrote: »

It's one of those things you just kind of push to the back of your mind. There's not really a "nice" way of killing something and eating it. Some conditions are worse than others of course, but the cold hard fact is no animal ever happily threw itself on to a dinner plate.

You don't have to push it to the back of your mind though. My kids wanted meat growing up even though I'm vegetarian so I used to go to a local organic farmer who hand reared his animals and buy the odd bit of meat from his freezer for them. Even if people ate less of it the animals grown for food could be fewer and then more humanely raised. Anyways I just think it's all a bit of a weird gross thing to ignore.

sbsquarepants

Malayalam wrote: »

You don't have to push it to the back of your mind though. My kids wanted meat growing up even though I'm vegetarian so I used to go to a local organic farmer who hand reared his animals and buy the odd bit of meat from his freezer for them. Even if people ate less of it the animals grown for food could be fewer and then more humanely raised. Anyways I just think it's all a bit of a weird gross thing to ignore.

But would they be? Yes they could be, but there's nothing to suggest they would be. As a species we're a shower of cúnts!

It's just the food chain in action really. Conditions should be better absolutely, practically everyone will agree with that - until they are told who will need to pay for those improved conditions. People push it to the back of their minds because they don't want admit the unpleasant home truth - they are more concerned with the price than the animals conditions - most won't admit it, they can't, it's a cognitive dissonance.

Same argument can be made for clothes, coffee, jewellery.....any number of things. Next time you're in pennies buying cheap knickers stop and ask yourself do you really care about the plight of the child who likely made them? Is that child not more important than a chicken? When you stop of and grab a coffee (fair trade of course) ask yourself how fair is it exactly - have you ever seen the effort that goes into growing coffee on a small scale - you wouldn't see labour like it on a cotton plantation back in the days of slavery!

We heartlessly exploit other humans all the time without a second thought, what hope have the damn chickens got!

Graces7

Typical cop out.

It really is. Make excuses all the way along by quoting extremes. :rolleyes: Admit to wrong in the hope it will excuse it :eek::eek:

It is possible to raise eg hens for eggs with humanity. Did that for years.
Also to raise pigs and sheep and cattle with freedom and humanity.

To be blind is a choice you make.

No one needs meat

sbsquarepants wrote: »

But would they be? Yes they could be, but there's nothing to suggest they would be. As a species we're a shower of cúnts!

It's just the food chain in action really. Conditions should be better absolutely, practically everyone will agree with that - until they are told who will need to pay for those improved conditions. People push it to the back of their minds because they don't want admit the unpleasant home truth - they are more concerned with the price than the animals conditions - most won't admit it, they can't, it's a cognitive dissonance.

Same argument can be made for clothes, coffee, jewellery.....any number of things. Next time you're in pennies buying cheap knickers stop and ask yourself do you really care about the plight of the child who likely made them? Is that child not more important than a chicken? When you stop of and grab a coffee (fair trade of course) ask yourself how fair is it exactly - have you ever seen the effort that goes into growing coffee on a small scale - you wouldn't see labour like it on a cotton plantation back in the days of slavery!

We heartlessly exploit other humans all the time without a second thought, what hope have the damn chickens got!

Malayalam

sbsquarepants wrote: »

But would they be? Yes they could be, but there's nothing to suggest they would be. As a species we're a shower of cúnts!

It's just the food chain in action really. Conditions should be better absolutely, practically everyone will agree with that - until they are told who will need to pay for those improved conditions. People push it to the back of their minds because they don't want admit the unpleasant home truth - they are more concerned with the price than the animals conditions - most won't admit it, they can't, it's a cognitive dissonance.

Same argument can be made for clothes, coffee, jewellery.....any number of things. Next time you're in pennies buying cheap knickers stop and ask yourself do you really care about the plight of the child who likely made them? Is that child not more important than a chicken? When you stop of and grab a coffee (fair trade of course) ask yourself how fair is it exactly - have you ever seen the effort that goes into growing coffee on a small scale - you wouldn't see labour like it on a cotton plantation back in the days of slavery!

We heartlessly exploit other humans all the time without a second thought, what hope have the damn chickens got!

Totally agree. Strange species, we are A shower of c*nts, as you say. Meh. Just sometimes it hits me harder...like that video, i just thought when i watched it...Fu-u-u-u-....uckkkkk, that's really disgusting. It can be said about umpteen things though, you're right.

Mostly I do make the effort, second hand clothes, fair trade foods, buy the least amount possible and whatever, but it's just so difficult when it comes to cheap knickers!

Mahogany Gaspipe

Given the centuries of what must have seemed like an endless battle against all the other creatures our ancestor's persistence raised Mankind to the apex of the food chain.

Every living human is obliged to eat meat in acknowledgement of that achievement.

Now go eat a chicken burger.

sbsquarepants

Mahogany Gaspipe wrote: »

Now go eat a chicken burger.

Fool!

There's no meat in chicken burgers. Well, I suppose you might get a bit of horse in there somewhere if you're lucky!

whisky_galore

Malayalam wrote: »

I agree. It's a wonder though that people can look at that video and then afterwards think Mmmmmm Chickennnnnn... I don't know, just reckon it requires a bit of cognitive dissonance.

I did a walk-through of a meat factory.

Turned me off meat for all of a day or two. It's animals' own fault for being too yummy.

s3rtvdbwfj81ch

I don't really care how my meat is processed tbh.

Once it tastes nice and there's a regular supply of it that's all I really do care about.

and no amount of self righteous preaching about aliens will change that.

Malayalam

whisky_galore wrote: »

I did a walk-through of a meat factory.

Turned me off meat for all of a day or two. It's animals' own fault for being too yummy.

Haha


Nah.

I bet aliens say that when they eat humans.

sbsquarepants

Graces7 wrote: »

To be blind is a choice you make.

I'm not blind - I see it for what it is. It's exploitation plain and simple.

I'm more concerned about my own comfort and that and my kids than I am about some random Bangladeshi sewing away the days in a sweatshop for a pittance, or up an Ethiopian mountain tending coffee beans. Certainly more so than any chicken in a cage.

Is that right, or ethical? No, I don't think so. But am I going to take the bold leap and "suffer" for them, through going vegetarian or buying only European made clothes or so on - No, I'm not, there's no point in me pretending otherwise.

I'm not convinced it would even be possible to do so. To be perfectly honest - I just thank my lucky stars I'm on this side of the fence!

Mutant z

We get it op you don't eat meat which you are perfectly entitled to do so but don't force your own beliefs onto those of us that do got it.

facehugger99

I feel like Chicken tonight, like Chicken tonight.



Thanks OP.

Malayalam

Alun wrote: »

They have large and highly complex digestive systems that can break down the cellulose that makes up the plant cell walls and therefore get at the protein inside the plant cells. We don't have that.


Even then, this process is very inefficient, and ruminants have to eat vast quantities of food per day to get sufficient nutrition, some even going to the extent of eating their poop to put it through the system a second time.

I think it's the opposite actually, as far as I remember. We have very long digestive systems, metre and half of large intestine, and for most meat eating animals the digestive system is quite short, so that meat does not stay long in the body (eg lions). We have the same length of digestive system proportionately as elephants.

Mutant z

Vegetarianism and veganism are practically religious cults the amount of preaching they do to the rest of us about their so called moral superiority for not eating meat.

whisky_galore

Malayalam wrote: »

I think it's the opposite actually, as far as I remember. We have very long digestive systems, metre and half of large intestine, and for most meat eating animals the digestive system is quite short, so that meat does not stay long in the body (eg lions). We have the same length of digestive system proportionately as elephants.

Go and eat your lawnmower cuttings and come back to us.

doolox

Animals are divided into three main categories, Herbivores, Omnivores and Carnivores.

Humans are Omnivores.

This means we have the ability to get some of our nutrients from meat. In olden days most of a humans nutrition came for plants, grains, green plant material and pulses. A lot of tribes only eat milk and cheese, some drain blood from their cattle but the slaughter of cattle for food is considered extravagant and wasteful as cattle are very expensive to rear and buy for these people.

Meat was viewed as an expensive luxury reserved for the upper classes or, on rare occasions for the 90% of people that made up the peasants class. Fish, crustaceans and in some countries, insects made up another important source of protein but westerners have gone off insects.

Because of our modern lifestyles and the advent of cheap grain and feeds, cheap transport and cheap sheds and housing, animal protein has become relatively inexpensive in modern times. Most culinary techniques are easier to manage when meat is in the diet as a convenient source of protein for the average worker. I have talked to vegans and they have to manage their diet very carefully to ensure they get adequate protein and the proper types of protein to guard against anemia, cognitive development disorders ( esp with vegan children) and the likes. Being vegan is therefore relatively difficult and leaves most people feeling hungry, but this is the normal state of affairs for most humans for most of times past. Being full at all times is only a post WW2 phenomenon for most working class people, esp city dwellers without access to arable land to grow their own food.

In the recent past we have used fossil fuels as feedstock to make artificial fertilisers and pesticides and fungicides to increase crop yields and allow modern humans to produce cheap meat with the surplus crops which are available because of this process. We are figuratively eating oil.

Water is also needed in large quantities to make meat.

As water and fossil fuels become scarce and more plant and grains are needed for our growing human population there will be an increase in the cost of meat and a reduction in its consumption. Veganism and vegetarianism will rise and probably in time become mainstream. The techniques and knowledge needed to successfully keep healthy on a vegan or veg diet will also become widely known and used by most ordinary people.

During WW2 British people used to keep a few hens out the back yards of urban houses etc and grew their own food because rationing of commercially sourced food was very strict. As a child I remember pigs being kept in sheds and outhouses in my native city which were fed scraps of waste food. There was even a tender process with most residential institutions, schools, hospitals etc to take away the waste food (slops ) which was seen as a valuable resource. Nothing was wasted.

Meat has one big drawback in that it wastes a lot of plant food and water in its production. As population increases humans will have to get most of their protein from other sources, beans, pulses, seafood etc. You also have the problem with waste gasses and animal excreta to contend with from an environmental viewpoint. All these external pressures point to a big reduction in meat consumption.

Alun

Malayalam wrote: »

I think it's the opposite actually, as far as I remember. We have very long digestive systems, metre and half of large intestine, and for most meat eating animals the digestive system is quite short, so that meat does not stay long in the body (eg lions). We have the same length of digestive system proportionately as elephants.

Lions are 100% carnivores, so their diet is very rich in protein and don't need long digestive tracts. We're omnivores, so need a longer one to absorb nutrients from plant material too.


So we can absorb protein from high quality, more easily digestible plant sources too, but not low quality ones like grass. For that you need a more complex system as found in ruminants.

jiltloop

Yeah I do frequently think about chickens and how they're reared for meat consumption and it's not a nice existence. I feel particularly bad when I'm eating a bowl of chicken wings and do the maths. I.e 12 chicken wings = 6 dead chickens for just my starter.

But chicken is still one of my main meat sources, I prefer beef and lamb but chicken is healthier for me and at the end of the day that's my main priority when choosing what to eat.

I have however in recent years cut down my meat consumption by as much as 50%, both for health and environmental/animal welfare reasons. Cutting it out altogether though is not something I ever envisage electing to do by choice so I'm settling with being conscientious and compromising. I want to eat more meat than I currently do but decide not to.

Malayalam

doolox wrote: »

Animals are divided into three main categories, Herbivores, Omnivores and Carnivores.

Humans are Omnivores.

This means we have the ability to get some of our nutrients from meat. In olden days most of a humans nutrition came for plants, grains, green plant material and pulses. A lot of tribes only eat milk and cheese, some drain blood from their cattle but the slaughter of cattle for food is considered extravagant and wasteful as cattle are very expensive to rear and buy for these people.

Meat was viewed as an expensive luxury reserved for the upper classes or, on rare occasions for the 90% of people that made up the peasants class. Fish, crustaceans and in some countries, insects made up another important source of protein but westerners have gone off insects.

Because of our modern lifestyles and the advent of cheap grin and feeds, cheap transport and cheap sheds and housing, animal protein has become relatively inexpensive in modern times. Most culinary techniques are easier to manage when meat is in the diet as a convenient source of protein fro the average worker. I have talked to vegans and they have to manage their diet very carefully to ensure they get adequate protein and the proper types of protein to guard against anemia, cognitive development disorders ( esp with vegan children) and the likes. Being vegan is therefore relatively difficult and leaves most people feeling hungry, but this is the normal state of affairs for most humans for most of times past. Being full at all times is only a post WW2 phenomenon for most working class people, esp city dwellers without access to arable land to grow their own.

In the recent past we have used fossil fuels as feedstock to make artificial fertilisers and pesticides and fungicides to increase crop yields and allow modern humans to produce cheap meat with the surplus crops which are available because of this process.

Water is also needed in large quantities to make meat.

As water and fossil fuels become scarce and more plant and grains are needed for our growing human population there will be an increase in the cost of meat and a reduction in its consumption. Veganism and vegetarianism will rise and probably in time become mainstream. The techniques and knowledge needed to successfully keep healthy on a vegan or veg diet will also become widely known and used by most ordinary people.

During WW2 British people used to keep a few hens out the back yards of urban houses etc and grew their own food because rationing of commercially sourced food was very strict. As a child I remember pigs being kept in sheds and outhouses in my native city which were fed scraps of waste food. There was even a tender process with most residential institutions, schools, hospitals etc to take away the waste food (slops ) which was seen as a valuable resource. Nothing was wasted.

Meat has one big drawback in that it wastes a lot of plant food and water in its production. As population increases humans will have to get most of their protein from other sources, beans, pulses, seafood etc. You also have the problem with waste gasses and animal excreta to contend with from an environmental viewpoint.

I agree with most of this. Thanks. Good summary. I don't attack people for eating meat - feck it most of the people I know eat it with relish, including the humans I gave birth to! - but there is terrible cruelty involved in the meat industry, and I find that disgusting. The least we could do as creatures with a higher intelligence is seriously consider how much of it we NEED to eat, and how we go about producing it.

mad muffin

Makes need difference to me.

It lived a cruel life, and welcomed death for me to eat. Or it lived a happy, and full of joy life. Only to be executed for me to eat.

Malayalam

mad muffin wrote: »

Makes need difference to me.

It lived a cruel life, and welcomed death for me to eat. Or it lived a happy, and full of joy life. Only to be executed for me to eat.

That's dark, man :pac:

mad muffin

Malayalam wrote: »

That's dark, man :pac:

But true. A life lived to be slaughtered for my food is no life at all. Therefore, it really doesn’t matter what kind of life it lived.

Cookie_Monster

Chicken is bland and boring, any other meat of seafood is better imo

Malayalam

mad muffin wrote: »

But true. A life lived to be slaughtered for my food is no life at all. Therefore, it really doesn’t matter what kind of life it lived.

Okay, I'll bite.

So, one possibility is you do not consider animals to be sentient, or capable of suffering, unlike humans. In which case you are a higher form of life than the unsentient creature and should therefore act from higher principles, ensuring that it does not suffer, because another creature suffering under your watch is demeaning to you. It shows that you are not very much more evolved than that creature, intellectually or emotionally, because of an inability to practice being humane.
The other possibility is that you do consider animals to be sentient and capable of suffering, just like humans, and in spite of this are content to disregard their quality of life, just because they will be slaughtered in the end for food. This is not the way humans have traditionally treated animals reared for food - the quality of their animals life was a reflection of the quality of their human life. And thus animals - even those reared for food - have through human history generally been treated humanely.

If we saw someone starving their dog or horse or donkey or flaying them or absuing them, we would automatically feel that it reflects on their inner nature as a human being. How we treat the animals we eat does likewise. In my opinion.

stimpson

I eat more chicken than any man ever seen.

But seriously, I buy free range Chicken from aldi and free range Pork from FX Buckley’s (all their pork is free range). Welfare aside, the quality of the meat is worth the extra few bob itself. And I’ll buy a whole chicken, roast it and strip the carcass and make stock so it all gets used. It’s probably cheaper than buying packs of chicken breasts. I also like beef and I think animal welfare for cows here is pretty good. My missus is veggie and I’ll have vegie chili once a week.

I feel more concern over seafood than chickens TBH. But. I’ll still eat muscles and prawns and stuff because they are tasty.

AllForIt

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

I love chicken, I would say it makes up over two thirds of my meat consumption. If you looked at the source of any meat or fish you would see it's far from growing on a tree in a carbon neutral environment of your back garden it's sourced.

2\3 ? You dont just love chicken - you have a chicken problem. I think you need to start going to Chickens Anonymous.

DEFTLEFTHAND

I sure does boss.

irelandrover

AllForIt wrote: »

2\3 ? You dont just love chicken - you have a chicken problem. I think you need to start going to Chickens Anonymous.

But reducing his chicken intake just increases his beef intake. Then he can quit CA but probably needs to go to BA.

Then he reduces his beef intake and increase his chicken intake. Back to CA with him.

Its just a vicious circle really.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

I don't rate chicken for anything but a sandwich snack. It just doesn't fill me. I'm very much a red meat eater.

How they are reared doesn't really bother me. What gets my goat is people who lament the poor creatures being reared for our gratification, renouncing the eating of meat and then (like a neighbour here) seek out the cheapest (and probably worse animal welfare) sources of raw chicken to feed to their cats.

AllForIt

irelandrover wrote: »

AllForIt wrote: »

2\3 ? You dont just love chicken - you have a chicken problem. I think you need to start going to Chickens Anonymous.

But reducing his chicken intake just increases his beef intake. Then he can quit CA but probably needs to go to BA.

Then he reduces his beef intake and increase his chicken intake. Back to CA with him.

Its just a vicious circle really.

Don't be ridiculous..theres no such thing as Beefs Anonamous.

Malayalam

Simeon Sparse Milkshake wrote: »

I don't rate chicken for anything but a sandwich snack. It just doesn't fill me. I'm very much a red meat eater.

How they are reared doesn't really bother me. What gets my goat is people who lament the poor creatures being reared for our gratification, renouncing the eating of meat and then (like a neighbour here) seek out the cheapest (and probably worse animal welfare) sources of raw chicken to feed to their cats.

I'd say to find chickens for cat-food that have been reared in a crueler way than your regular broiler/sandwich chicken as shown in the video, the workers would have to be actively boxing those babies in the kisser from morning till evening and then kicking them mercilessly round the yard all night for good measure.

weldoninhio

Malayalam wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/videos/world-news/video-harrowing-footage-released-of-animal-abuse-at-chicken-farm-37026816.html


It's about 2 minutes long. Worth a watch. I don't know, what does it take to get people to make enquiries about what they eat?
It's disgusting, in my opinion, what that video shows, and I'm sure it's pretty normal in that industry, but that probably makes me an insufferable vegetarian, or something. I would maybe...maybe...eat a bit of meat ocasionally if it was humanely produced. Fact is, it very rarely is. If an alien landed on earth and saw our regular meat industry they would quite reasonably think we are savages.

Couldn't care less. If it taste nice, i'll eat it. It's life beforehand means nothing to me.

Malayalam

weldoninhio wrote: »

Couldn't care less. If it taste nice, i'll eat it. It's life beforehand means nothing to me.

You won't be saying that when you come back next life as a nice tasty chicken :pac:

Canis Lupus

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Chicken is bland and boring, any other meat of seafood is better imo

Chicken breast is a bit dull but I could eat thigh fillets all day long.

RWCNT

Canis Lupus wrote: »

Chicken breast is a bit dull but I could eat thigh fillets all day long.

Thighs are the best! No idea how chicken breasts are so popular when thigh is so much more flavoursome. Isn't even much higher in fat when the skin is taken off, not that I would ever do such a thing.

Liamalone

Pmsl @ part time vegetarian

Malayalam

Liamalone wrote: »

Pmsl @ part time vegetarian

You should do pelvic floor strengthening exercises. That's an unpleasant problem that will get worse as you age

Liamalone

Liamalone wrote: »

Pmsl @ part time vegetarian

Lots of people have meat-free days. I make a few dinners a week with no meat like a pasta bake or vege curry. Many people don't make the change to vegetarian but minimize their meat consumption for various reasons.