Social contradiction on how we treat animals

_Brian

aaakev wrote: »

That doesnt make it true though. Dog meat is eaten in plenty of places and is most definitely edible. Eating carnivorous animals can pose a risk but it is certainly edible.

I’ve eaten it, it’s edible ok, just not very good meat compared to other animals.

Worztron

Nekarsulm wrote: »

I would root for the farmer that owned the beast, and hope it was rounded up before it caused a fortune in damage to cars and property, or ran across a bunch of people and injured or killed someone.

I suppose you are using the verb "root" in the Americian meaning, not the Australian/Kiwi one?

As I posted earlier, nobody wants harm done to people or property or the animal.

I'm not sure of any Australian/Kiwi version but I meant: root for: to express or show support for (a person, a team, etc.) : to hope for the success of (someone or something)

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/root%20for

Worztron

gozunda wrote: »

And if you wish to make use of analogies thats the closest thing to a wanabe chat show presenter looking for reaction imo. No one on boards is obliged to answer any directed 'question' especially where it has already been pointed out that the 'question' make a no sense whatsover. Tbh I have only bothered replying so far out of politeness despite the fact you've liked none of the replies so far and are still badgering posters. That tells me enough thanks.

Your question makes as much sense as this scenario tbh

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3101363/Have-drunk-dinosaur-urine-glass-water-contains-100-Jurassic-pee-claim-scientists.html

How do feel about drinking dinosaur pee as an animal by-product?

Ps I don't expect an answer ....

On the other hand If you wish to debate the merits or otherwise of vegan run sanctruries and / or how Irish slaughthouse operations are run - go ahead.
.

Ok gozunda, keep dancing around the question.

A chat show presenter? Dino pee? What the hell are you blabbering about?

You said my question makes no sense. I beg to differ.

You call that 'badgering posters'? Jeez, you are very delicate.

At least aaakev and Nekarsulm were honest enough to answer the question.

So you want to pick and choose what qs to answer and ignore and also pick and choose your own topics. How nice for you.

gozunda

Worzton

Its unfortunate that you appear unhappy with those who replied avove and that you had to bizarly introduce analogies regarding politicans etc

Your reply to aaakev ganmo and myself.

Worztron wrote: »

It goes without saying that we'd all wish for nobody to be injured. Why should this question not be a clear cut answer?
Agreed on the damage part, but that's not what I asked.
No, it's a simple question.

I believe been quite clear that imho your query makes no sense whatsoever.

As above If you wish to discuss the merits of otherwise of 'vegan' sanctuaries or how Irish slaughter facilities operate - I'm more than willing to engage however I cannot help with hypothetical answers to hypothetical scenarios which makes the same amount of sense as the Dino pee question imo. Thanks all the same.

_Brian

Worztron wrote: »

To gozunda and co. I'm curious - whenever ye see a story about an animal escaping from a slaughterhouse or truck bound for such place -- do ye root for the animal or slaughterers?

You make it sound like it’s a regular thing for people to read such accounts.
All the time it’s a case of loading animals, they arrive, they’re unloaded without any fuss, from there they male their way without stress to the slaughter line.

Animals don’t escape much, and to be honest it’s not a planned event when they do. They don’t have the rational thought process or understanding of what
Is happening around them, that’s a human trait and it’s a big mistake to project human traits onto animals.

They have a basic understanding typically learned by familiar surroundings, it’s notmumderst As humans understand something.

aaakev

Worztron wrote: »

Yes, you just completed your earlier answer there regarding how you'd prefer the escaped animal to end up. Although I never mentioned it was a cow.

The animal was reared to be food so it should become food in the most efficient way possible, without stress and without the possibility of being involved in some sort of accident.

Iv been in slaughter houses, the animals dont know what is going on and just move along until its their turn to be slaughtered which is a very quick process

Tilikum17

aaakev wrote: »

The animal was reared to be food so it should become food in the most efficient way possible, without stress and without the possibility of being involved in some sort of accident.

Iv been in slaughter houses, the animals dont know what is going on and just move along until its their turn to be slaughtered which is a very quick process

Animals don’t know whats going on.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mza1EQ6aLdg

Nekarsulm

Tilikum17 wrote: »

Animals don’t know whats going on.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mza1EQ6aLdg

So farm animals can learn by repetition, thats hardly news to a farmer.
During their life, a beef animal will have been up a chute multiple times.
At least four times for TB testing, probably four more times for dosing, perhaps a couple of times for Dept.Ag inspections (ear tags read, etc) and perhaps a couple of times for drafting into different groups.
So going up another chute in the factory is hardly a totally alien expierence.
Instead of getting their ear held while the human cleans the dirt off it to read it, or getting a worm drench down the throat, something briefly touches their fore head, and its lights out.

How does the animals previous expierences allow them to know that this time they wont be galloping back to a field?

aaakev

Tilikum17 wrote: »

Animals don’t know whats going on.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mza1EQ6aLdg

Ya trying to tell me a cow knows its going to be killed when it goes into the factory?

Worztron

gozunda wrote: »

Worzton

Its unfortunate that you appear unhappy with those who replied avove and that you had to bizarly introduce analogies regarding politicans etc

Your reply to aaakev ganmo and myself.


I believe been quite clear that imho your query makes no sense whatsoever.

As above If you wish to discuss the merits of otherwise of 'vegan' sanctuaries or how Irish slaughter facilities operate - I'm more than willing to engage however I cannot help with hypothetical answers to hypothetical scenarios which makes the same amount of sense as the Dino pee question imo. Thanks all the same.

gozunda, you pretty much just regurgitated your previous post to me.

Worztron

Those pigs certainly know what's going on. It's totally messed up.

Jump to 43 seconds in.

Nekarsulm

I havent bern in a pig factory since about 1990, and that was in Belgium.
They were stunned by electricity at that time, if I recall correctly.

Carbon dioxode is probably more humane, as a method to stun them, and no doubt research is continuing for less stressful gas mixes.

The squealing you hear on the video above is hardly proof of the stunning process, as mixing grouos of pigs and moving pigs that dont want to move will cause them to react in exactly the same way.

If you ever were in a dry sow house at feeding time, you will know that the decibel level is incredible.
The excitment of knowing the food is coming will give rise to exactly the noise you hear on the video above.
Untill every last one gets their ration, it would be impossible to be in the shed without hearing defenders ( or else suffer permanent hearing damage).

Its an interesting video, but of course highly subjective to the makers viewpoint.

gozunda

Nekarsulm wrote: »

I havent bern in a pig factory since about 1990, and that was in Belgium.
They were stunned by electricity at that time, if I recall correctly.

Carbon dioxode is probably more humane, as a method to stun them, and no doubt research is continuing for less stressful gas mixes.

The squealing you hear on the video above is hardly proof of the stunning process, as mixing grouos of pigs and moving pigs that dont want to move will cause them to react in exactly the same way.

If you ever were in a dry sow house at feeding time, you will know that the decibel level is incredible.
The excitment of knowing the food is coming will give rise to exactly the noise you hear on the video above.
Untill every last one gets their ration, it would be impossible to be in the shed without hearing defenders ( or else suffer permanent hearing damage).

Its an interesting video, but of course highly subjective to the makers viewpoint.

I can add my own experience to this. I've visited free range pig farms and pigs will squeal pretty much regularly at feeding time, whilst playing, when excited, When being moved etc. The noise can be deafening. .

Tbh it's fairly typical of many who have no experience of animals behaviour. I agree its completely subjective and notably the carbon dioxide scene made up by looping different clips. That video completly messed up

Some pigs being fed. Very noisy. No hyperbole.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1euk5qGsjN8

Worztron

_Brian wrote: »

You make it sound like it’s a regular thing for people to read such accounts.
All the time it’s a case of loading animals, they arrive, they’re unloaded without any fuss, from there they male their way without stress to the slaughter line.

Animals don’t escape much, and to be honest it’s not a planned event when they do. They don’t have the rational thought process or understanding of what
Is happening around them, that’s a human trait and it’s a big mistake to project human traits onto animals.

They have a basic understanding typically learned by familiar surroundings, it’s notmumderst As humans understand something.

Where did I suggest that animals escaping was a regular thing?

You make it sound like a pleasant day out for the animals. A day trip to the slaughterhouse.

Worztron

gozunda wrote: »

I can add my own experience to this. I've visited free range pig farms and pigs will squeal pretty much regularly at feeding time, whilst playing, when excited, When being moved etc. The noise can be deafening. .

Tbh it's fairly typical of many who have no experience of animals behaviour. I agree its completely subjective and notably the carbon dioxide scene made up by looping different clips. That video completly messed up

Some pigs being fed. Very noisy. No hyperbole.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1euk5qGsjN8

That's right gozunda. Nothing to see - just vegan propaganda. :rolleyes:

Were the pigs being fed in the slaughterhouse also?

Ye guys are unbelievable.

Lady Haywire

Worztron wrote: »

That's right gozunda. Nothing to see - just vegan propaganda. :rolleyes:

Were the pigs being fed in the slaughterhouse also?

Ye guys are unbelievable.

The point he's making is that pigs squeal like banshees if they're excited, if they're annoyed, if they see new pigs, if the bloody well feel like squealing, they'll do so, then squeal a bit more for the lols.
Standing outside a slaughterhouse listening to it & ad-libbing what the pigs are feeling and why they're 'screaming' is just hokum.

Worztron

ElKavo wrote: »

Cognitive dissonance.

Eat pig, love dog etc. Very similar intelligence levels, some would say pigs are more intelligent, but, but, but bacon tho! I'd be pretty sure if you seasoned dog in the same way as pig you would get the same taste.

+1

gozunda

Worztron wrote: »

That's right gozunda. Nothing to see - just vegan propaganda. :Were the pigs being fed in the slaughterhouse also?Ye guys are unbelievable.

So you agree it doesnt matter where they were? Good! Pigs SQUEAL and make a heluva racket no matter what's going on. It shows the video you posted is nothing more than silly hyperbole and anthropomorphism.

gozunda

Worztron wrote: »

ElKavo wrote:

Cognitive dissonance.
Eat pig, love dog etc. Very similar intelligence levels, some would say pigs are more intelligent, but, but, but bacon tho! I'd be pretty sure if you seasoned dog in the same way as pig you would get the same taste.

+1

You see that's where the faulty logic comes in. And it's easy to spot idiotic type comments by using similar substitution. Check it out...

"Hmmmm I'm pretty sure if you seasoned [rat] in the same way you'd get the same taste" lol

"Hmmmm I'm pretty sure if you seasoned [cacti] in the same way you'd get the same taste" lol

So do people eat 'rat' for example in this country No? Why is that? One of the main reasons because it's ****e meat - the same as dog. Even in the countries where dog is eaten it is unregulated and a backyard / black market trade. It's been banned in the Philippines and Hong Kong for health reasons such as Rabbies and Sars etc.

The nice thing about bacon is that not only is it delicous - It doesn't need seasoned. Just fry your rashers in a pan and serve straight up. Try it sometime - that is dont just be "pretty sure" - put your assumptions on the line - try dog or rat or whatever and then come back and tell us what it is like. Otherwise you are suffering from a very bad dose of cognitive dissonance indeed.

I would also like to know why vegans don't eat all vegetable matter? Cacti, Grass , Trees? Surely with a bit of seasoning it would all taste the same no?

Tar.Aldarion

Nekarsulm warned and infracted for those kind of antagonzing posts on a vegan and vegetarian forum, posts deleted, gozunda on thin ice for thanking them.

I'll be going through the rest of the thread when I have time. Talk about social contradiction, as per the topic.

Report any other posts you think are necessary. Respond to me with PM if you have any queries, not on thread.

davidjtaylor

It's a murky subject and is unlikely to go anywhere clearer; too many people have cloudy, emotional and often combative attitudes.

I feel sorry for anyone who is unclear about Klop's intentions in examining the subject - s/he's up against the 'shinner at a blueshirts meeting' syndrome.

Hitman3000

davidjtaylor wrote:

I feel sorry for anyone who is unclear about Klop's intentions in examining the subject - s/he's up against the 'shinner at a blueshirts meeting' syndrome.

You can't have a discussion when you block any poster you disagree with. You just create an echo chamber. You were asked do you feed your dog meat several times yet todate you refuse to answer. Cuts both ways . A vegan keeping a carnivore as a pet is a definite contradiction. Dangerous to the carnivores health.

Tar.Aldarion

One one hand it would be interesting to ask vegans what they think about something like that and could even be relevant to the topic, but the way it is used here is just whataboutism, even if what you say is true or not, it's not about introspection and is just trying to say "you do this so la la la".

Hitman3000

Tar.Aldarion wrote:

One one hand it would be interesting to ask vegans what they think about something like that, a nice thread of it's own but the way it is used here is just

Is this addressed to me?

davidjtaylor

TA, yes, I agree. It can be odd having anti- or unsypathetic or simply non-knowledgeable contributors here, clogging the flow. Introspection is a good word in the context of this thread, thank you.

I'd never dream of going near an agri-farmers' forum, in the same spirit as I tell Fianna Fáilers or Fine Gaelers that they're wasting their time, money and energy coming to my door. But a veg*n is - hah - fair game. :rolleyes:

Hitman3000

Pointless having an open forum if all you really want is an echo chamber .

Lady Haywire

davidjtaylor wrote: »

TA, yes, I agree. It can be odd having anti- or unsypathetic or simply non-knowledgeable contributors here, clogging the flow. Introspection is a good word in the context of this thread, thank you.

I'd never dream of going near an agri-farmers' forum, in the same spirit as I tell Fianna Fáilers or Fine Gaelers that they're wasting their time, money and energy coming to my door. But a veg*n is - hah - fair game. :rolleyes:

You're making it sound like we come here to make a mockery of veganism.
Every time I see something that's incorrect, could do with an explanation or is simply complete codswallop I will give a farming pov. I see no big sign saying meat eaters/beef/sheep farmers not allowed in here.

If all you want is a circle of vegans praising themselves for actions, looking at heavily edited videos, not grasping the simple points of actual agri farming, then yea go right ahead. How many of you here have gone around to local farmers, asked how they treat their stock and watched them care for them?
I'd be interested to hear if anyone had, or is most of your opinions based on what's portrayed across to you in media etc?

gozunda

davidjtaylor wrote: »

TA, yes, I agree. It can be odd having anti- or unsypathetic or simply non-knowledgeable contributors here, clogging the flow. Introspection is a good word in the context of this thread, thank you.
I'd never dream of going near an agri-farmers' forum, in the same spirit as I tell Fianna Fáilers or Fine Gaelers that they're wasting their time, money and energy coming to my door. But a veg*n is - hah - fair game. :rolleyes:

"Clogging the flow" lol - well I've heard it all now lol

The issue david- is that there is probably more anti farming bile generated in thread here than any where else on Boards. It is perhaps naive to believe that which is posted is not held up to scrutiny by other posters.

You will find that there are plenty of vegans who post on the farming forum and notably I have never attended any meeting anywhere where the majority of time was spent painting other groups in the colourful and down right vicous way which is frequently done here.

Perhaps some do not understand that it is usual for others to point out the many and varied inconsistencies of often bizarre videos and other misinformation which is regularly posted. That is perhaps unfortunate imo.

I would hope at least that it is evident - that's not the way it is here and manage to understand that the general flow is better unclogged as it were

gozunda

davidjtaylor wrote: »

It's a murky subject and is unlikely to go anywhere clearer; too many people have cloudy, emotional and often combative attitudes.

I feel sorry for anyone who is unclear about Klop's intentions in examining the subject - s/he's up against the 'shinner at a blueshirts meeting' syndrome.

Could be looked at it the other way too - as to who has the "cloudy, emotional and often combative attitudes".
The intentions are all to evident imo. As to who are the 'blueshirts' and who are the 'shinners' that is up for open debate lol ... How well do you know your history david?

davidjtaylor

Lady Haywire wrote: »

How many of you here have gone around to local farmers, asked how they treat their stock and watched them care for them?

Yes. I live in a dairy area and next door to a beef farmer, have sheep, deer, ducks, geese in the area bred for food. Most of my neighbours are animal farmers in one form or another. Some are good carers, many less so. Some should not be allowed to have any animal. In the end though, it's just a commodity.