Femicide

AllForIt

https://player.fm/series/rt-marian-finucane-1324431/femicide

I came across this podcast where Marian Finucane talks with Gillian Dennehy, Services Manager at Women's Aid.

I never came across the term Femicide before. A portmanteau of Female with Homocide I guess.

What raised my eyebrows in the podcast is that Gillian explains that Femicide is all part gender inequality - murder is a final act of control - it's all part of a continuum of misogyny as exemplified in the recent Belfast rugby rape trial.

That view strikes me as a rather damming view of men. I would have though anyone who kills must be something of a psychopathy to some degree or other.

The inference she is making is that if their were no general misogyny there would be no murders of women and that all men are somehow complicit in the death of these women. Where do men get this sense of entitlement she goes on to say!

Is she right or is she looking at the issue in an extremely low resolution kinda way? That is to say that it's actually a much more complicated issue than she would like us to think?

Poor Uncle Tom

If there were no women there would be no murders of women!

kneemos

I get the misogyny angle,but men are more violent.

Out of curiosity I wonder do gay couples murder their partners?

AllForIt

kneemos wrote: »

I get the misogyny angle,but men are more violent.
Out of curiosity I wonder do gay couples murder their partners?

I though that what HOMOcide was once.

Just kidding. But seriously if men are wired to be more violent then that would contradict what Gillian is saying because she is saying it's all about mens attitude - their sense of entitlement.

AllForIt

https://news.sky.com/story/berlinah-wallace-jailed-for-life-after-evil-acid-attack-on-ex-boyfriend-mark-van-dongen-11382616

I wonder if Gillian would call this malicide?

odyssey06

The greatest femicide will occur where female babies are aborted ... leading to gender imbalance.

one world order

Thought it was aborting female babies as well

riffmongous

Yeah me too, I've heard it used when describing the killing of baby girls in China and particularly India

s7ryf3925pivug

I'm not complicit in anybody's murder.

pleas advice

What way did you vote?

/S

AllForIt

Incidentally Gillian speaks of 'violence' in pornography as being a cause of all this misogyny and ultimately murder which I think she was inferring. As someone who never watches heterosexual porn I have no idea what she means by this? What kinds of violence is there in hetro porn? Are women being beat up or what is she talking about?

marieholmfan

I am very against femicide. I condemn it in the strongest terms ; not merely online either.

odyssey06

Men kill other men too... and men are twice as likely to be murdered than women.
Would be interesting to hear if the interview talked about penalties for those actually found guilty of a serious crime.

Your Face

Another meaningless buzz word.
It's the same old ****e.

marieholmfan

odyssey06 wrote: »

Men kill other men too... and men are twice as likely to be murdered than women. .

This is homicide and is already illegal. Femicide must not be ignored or brushed under the carpet.

Where are the police

marieholmfan

Annabelle Icy Skateboard wrote: »

I'm not complicit in anybody's murder.

Well said but talk is cheap.

odyssey06

marieholmfan wrote: »

This is homicide and is already illegal. Femicide must not be ignored or brushed under the carpet.

Where are the police

Female homicide is already illegal. As is rape. Yet we have people convicted of multiple violent and sexual assaults walking the streets having served their joke of a jail term.

Police can only catch them...judiciary and government need to step up too.

AllForIt

odyssey06 wrote: »

Men kill other men too... and men are twice as likely to be murdered than women.

Well exactly; https://www.rte.ie/news/2018/0603/967877-man-dies-in-mitchelstown/

Men are hardly twice as likely to be murdered by women though are they???

Would be interesting to hear if the interview talked about penalties for those actually found guilty of a serious crime.

No because the woman suffered abuse from the male I suppose. It's alright for the women to antagonized but it doesn't work the other way around.

marieholmfan

odyssey06 wrote: »

Female homicide is already illegal. As is rape. Yet we have people convicted of multiple violent and sexual assaults walking the streets having served their joke of a jail term.

Police can only catch them...judiciary and government need to step up too.

Well said and I for one do not support femicide and am pleased that it is illegal. That could be somebody's mother or somebody's wife.

odyssey06

AllForIt wrote: »

Well exactly; https://www.rte.ie/news/2018/0603/967877-man-dies-in-mitchelstown/

Men are hardly twice as likely to be murdered by women though are they???
.

No but how does it speak to some male plot to specifically murder women when men murder twice as many men as women?
It speaks to violence in males only.

When the walls of Jericho fell all the adult males were executed and the women were taken into slavery. This was a far more misogynistic society than 21st century Ireland, a society where women have a longer life expectancy than men and are more equal with men than at any time in the previous thousand years.

Femicide as a concept outlined in the original post is nonsense.

We have a problem with violent crime and sexual assault though. Talk of femicide wont stop someone like Larry Murphy from striking again.

marieholmfan

odyssey06 wrote: »

Femicide as a concept outlined in the original post is nonsense.

Are you advocating decriminalisation?

odyssey06

marieholmfan wrote: »

Are you advocating decriminalisation?

No it is exactly about criminalisation. Murder is not about gender inequality.
It is a violent crime that needs to be detected, and deterred and punished.

A life sentence should mean life.

ygolometsipe

Well I'm a man and I'm a feminist.
I happened to answer this very question in my new book.

"The power in side you: connecting with male feminism in a post misogynistic society" € 29.99

You can buy it on Amazon. you might also be interested in my previous book.

"How to sell books for dummies" €7.89

Or my first book.
"Provocation and the art of the deal, how to help yourself avoid stress and avoid inner turmoil by ignoring some people" €19.99

That last one is on sale in easons if you use the coupon '1995wasbetter'

marieholmfan

ygolometsipe wrote: »

Well I'm a man and I'm a feminist.
I happened to answer this very question in my new book.

"The power in side you: connecting with male feminism in a post misogynistic society" € 29.99

You can buy it on Amazon. you might also be interested in my previous book.

"How to sell books for dummies" €7.89

Or my first book.
"Provocation and the art of the deal, how to help yourself avoid stress and avoid inner turmoil by ignoring some people" €19.99

That last one is on sale in easons if you use the coupon '1995wasbetter'

I like the sound of the second one. It is FOR Dummies and not TO Dummies?

marieholmfan

odyssey06 wrote: »

No it is exactly about criminalisation. Murder is not about gender inequality.
It is a violent crime that needs to be detected, and deterred and punished.

A life sentence should mean life.

I strongly agree. When you say life how long do you mean? 4 years or 6 years?

odyssey06

marieholmfan wrote: »

I strongly agree. When you say life how long do you mean? 4 years or 6 years?

It means never leaving prison.
However long that is.

marieholmfan

odyssey06 wrote: »

It means never leaving prison.
However long that is.

What if the killer is from a good family or alternatively had a troubled upbringing.

ygolometsipe

marieholmfan wrote: »

I like the sound of the second one. It is FOR Dummies and not TO Dummies?

That's correct, it deals with concepts like
"Do you have any ideas"..."have you tried writing them down"..
Its a slow burner but by chapter 70
We're onto "if you wrote about that, how many people would be pissed off enough to buy your book? Even to burn it?"

It's a trending best seller...

mistersifter

The idea of femicide is that it is murder that is in some way motivated by gender.

It's a very commonly used term in Latin America at the moment. You will often hear about the killings of young women in Mexico - in Ciudad Juarez. These murders are undoubtedly gender motivated. The Inter American court of human rights accepted this and ruled that the Mexican state had not done enough to protect women. It also linked the murders to the culture of machismo that is strong across Latin America.

In Argentina since 2015 a huge movement called Ni Una Menos has emerged and is organizing regular large scale protests to improve protection of women. One "femicide" occurs approximately every 34 hours there. A significant amount of these murders are carried out by men who are partners or ex-partners of women. There is definitely a huge problem of violence towards women in domestic situations there.

So. I would say it's a valid term. Although I'm sure it's probably misused too.


I expect that we'll start hearing this term a lot more here.

mdwexford

Making up words is fun.

Squngy, you're welcome.

AllForIt

mistersifter wrote: »

The idea of femicide is that it is murder that is in some way motivated by gender.

It's not valid unless it's 100% motivated by gender imo.

In my OP I didn't object to the term per so but only in the way Gillian attributed it to the issues of general misogyny - that is where the femicide is born she suggests.

It simply is a fact that most partnerships are conducted between a man and a woman. Partnerships can involve all sorts of jealousies and domestic issues that can boil over over time. Men are physically stronger than women and they are I'd admit are more violent statistically. Thus I am saying that this phenomenon can be explained due to those facts rather than being a result of general widespread misogyny as Gillian posits. Edit: And you have to account for a bit of physiological imbalance on behalf of the killer into the the equation as well, unless one thinks that for some that killing another human being is some causal affair.

riffmongous

Not only south America but also a lot of eastern countries have a problem of gender motivated honour killings, the victims are overwhelmingly female

mistersifter

AllForIt wrote: »

It's not valid unless it's 100% motivated by gender imo.....

It is definitely difficult to determine to what extent a murder is "gender motivated" and this is where the problem will lie when it comes to using the term here. And it will become a buzz word that is misused by the so-called feminazis.

However, I would say that femicides can be linked to a general culture of misogyny, as is evident in the example of Mexico as I mentioned. There were gangs of men targeting young women. The killers weren't in relationships with them, they simply hunted down young girls to rape and kill. Many of the victims were working in factories and trying gain financial independence and this has been talked about as a form of motivation in the sense that they were not fulfilling their traditional domestic roles.

These killings were truly gender-motivated imo and I think that they were also connected to a culture of misogyny as was ruled in court. The police and legal systems were even found to have assimilated this culture in how they failed to investigate the murders properly. I have personally witnessed this culture and can confirm that, for example, it is the absolute norm for women to be verbally abused on the street by random men. I believe that these ideas can escalate into serious violence. The machismo culture doesnt exist as much here, hence the reason why the term femicide isnt heard that much.

but as i say it will be the next term to be bandied about. Then it will be trans-femicide. Oh and "rape culture" is another :pac:

greencap

AllForIt wrote: »

https://player.fm/series/rt-marian-finucane-1324431/femicide

it's all part of a continuum of misogyny as exemplified in the recent Belfast rugby rape trial.

weren't those defendants found not guilty?

how was an unbiased, well run court case misogynistic, when the names of the men were released, yet the name of the plaintiff (whose accusation was not proven) remained anonymous.

is it misogynistic to be wrongly accused now?

Poor Uncle Tom

And the ajenda is now clear......

TomSweeney

another deranged man hating lunatic getting airtime.
People wonder what damage the likes of Louise O Neill and Una Mullaly do - well this is one example, normalising this man hating claptrap.

s7ryf3925pivug

pleas advice wrote: »

What way did you vote?

/S

Against the control of women, which is the basic point of the OP. My understanding of your comment is that in your view that makes me complicit in the murder of babies.

That view is fundamentally flawed. Agents of the Catholic Church are its greatest proponents. The Catholic Church is responsible for the killing of babies and the horrific abuse of women a la Magdalene laundries. Goes without saying that they're the single major contributor to the statistic that one in four of Irish people experienced sexual abuse as a child. Still have refused to compensate the victims.

Moral high ground yeah?

markodaly

AllForIt wrote: »

What raised my eyebrows in the podcast is that Gillian explains that Femicide is all part gender inequality - murder is a final act of control - it's all part of a continuum of misogyny as exemplified in the recent Belfast rugby rape trial.

That view strikes me as a rather damming view of men. I would have though anyone who kills must be something of a psychopathy to some degree or other.

Interesting, as I remember listening to the same show and immediately this persons theories raised my eyebrow as well.

It was right out of the 3rd wave feminist handbook. She offered no science or studies to back up her claim that men killed women to 'control them'.

Did she have an explanation why men are still more likely to die from violence then men? I suppose they deserve it for the gall of having a penis.

Anyway, it seems that many feminist issues have a load of quacks and anti-science personal spouting off stuff that may feel right but are in fact wrong when put under any scrutiny.

Another example, they listed off the total number of women killed since 1996 or the like. Yet, the number of men killed since this time would be way way more, yet never mentioned it.

The issue should be mental health, not damming all men as would be murderers.

Ipso

markodaly wrote: »

Interesting, as I remember listening to the same show and immediately this persons theories raised my eyebrow as well.

It was right out of the 3rd wave feminist handbook. She offered no science or studies to back up her claim that men killed women to 'control them'.

Did she have an explanation why men are still more likely to die from violence then men? I suppose they deserve it for the gall of having a penis.

Anyway, it seems that many feminist issues have a load of quacks and anti-science personal spouting off stuff that may feel right but are in fact wrong when put under any scrutiny.

Another example, they listed off the total number of women killed since 1996 or the like. Yet, the number of men killed since this time would be way way more, yet never mentioned it.

The issue should be mental health, not damming all men as would be murderers.

Yeah, but they wouldn't get noticed by saying sensible things.

markodaly

Ipso wrote: »

Yeah, but they wouldn't get noticed by saying sensible things.

Fear sells I suppose. There is certainly more fear from women towards men these days, despite the fact it has never been safer or better to be a female.

AllForIt

markodaly wrote: »

Another example, they listed off the total number of women killed since 1996 or the like. Yet, the number of men killed since this time would be way way more, yet never mentioned it.

The issue should be mental health, not damming all men as would be murderers.

I think she said that 88% were killed by men. No discussion as to the reasons of the other 12%. I found her whole tone and her spin on the subject to be shocking to be honest. She milked the Belfast rape trial texts for all it's worth as if that was conclusive evidence of what she was saying was true. Marian just went along with it without challenging her on anything at all which was equally shocking...what they hell are we paying her for?

TomSweeney

Did Marion sound drunk in that interview ?

Snickers Man

marieholmfan wrote: »

This is homicide and is already illegal. Femicide must not be ignored or brushed under the carpet.

I think it's illegal too. If only under a different name.