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Femicide

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  • 05-06-2018 9:22pm
    #1
    AllForIt
    Registered Users Posts: 8,282 ✭✭✭


    https://player.fm/series/rt-marian-finucane-1324431/femicide

    I came across this podcast where Marian Finucane talks with Gillian Dennehy, Services Manager at Women's Aid.

    I never came across the term Femicide before. A portmanteau of Female with Homocide I guess.

    What raised my eyebrows in the podcast is that Gillian explains that Femicide is all part gender inequality - murder is a final act of control - it's all part of a continuum of misogyny as exemplified in the recent Belfast rugby rape trial.

    That view strikes me as a rather damming view of men. I would have though anyone who kills must be something of a psychopathy to some degree or other.

    The inference she is making is that if their were no general misogyny there would be no murders of women and that all men are somehow complicit in the death of these women. Where do men get this sense of entitlement she goes on to say!

    Is she right or is she looking at the issue in an extremely low resolution kinda way? That is to say that it's actually a much more complicated issue than she would like us to think?


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    #2
    Poor Uncle Tom
    Registered Users Posts: 14,545 ✭✭✭✭Poor Uncle Tom


    If there were no women there would be no murders of women!


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    #3
    kneemos
    Registered Users Posts: 20,409 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    I get the misogyny angle,but men are more violent.

    Out of curiosity I wonder do gay couples murder their partners?


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    #4
    AllForIt
    Registered Users Posts: 8,282 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    kneemos wrote: »

    I get the misogyny angle,but men are more violent.
    Out of curiosity I wonder do gay couples murder their partners?

    I though that what HOMOcide was once.

    Just kidding. But seriously if men are wired to be more violent then that would contradict what Gillian is saying because she is saying it's all about mens attitude - their sense of entitlement.


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    #5
    AllForIt
    Registered Users Posts: 8,282 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    https://news.sky.com/story/berlinah-wallace-jailed-for-life-after-evil-acid-attack-on-ex-boyfriend-mark-van-dongen-11382616

    I wonder if Gillian would call this malicide?


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    #6
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 27,936 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    The greatest femicide will occur where female babies are aborted ... leading to gender imbalance.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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    #7
    one world order
    Registered Users Posts: 592 ✭✭✭one world order


    Thought it was aborting female babies as well


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    #8
    riffmongous
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,629 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    Yeah me too, I've heard it used when describing the killing of baby girls in China and particularly India


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    #9
    s7ryf3925pivug
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,007 ✭✭✭s7ryf3925pivug


    I'm not complicit in anybody's murder.


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    #10
    pleas advice
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,492 ✭✭✭pleas advice


    What way did you vote?

    /S


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    #11
    AllForIt
    Registered Users Posts: 8,282 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    Incidentally Gillian speaks of 'violence' in pornography as being a cause of all this misogyny and ultimately murder which I think she was inferring. As someone who never watches heterosexual porn I have no idea what she means by this? What kinds of violence is there in hetro porn? Are women being beat up or what is she talking about?


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    #12
    marieholmfan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,744 ✭✭✭marieholmfan


    I am very against femicide. I condemn it in the strongest terms ; not merely online either.


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    #13
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 27,936 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Men kill other men too... and men are twice as likely to be murdered than women.
    Would be interesting to hear if the interview talked about penalties for those actually found guilty of a serious crime.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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    #14
    Your Face
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,277 ✭✭✭Your Face


    Another meaningless buzz word.
    It's the same old ****e.


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    #15
    marieholmfan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,744 ✭✭✭marieholmfan


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    Men kill other men too... and men are twice as likely to be murdered than women. .
    This is homicide and is already illegal. Femicide must not be ignored or brushed under the carpet.

    Where are the police


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    #16
    marieholmfan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,744 ✭✭✭marieholmfan


    Annabelle Icy Skateboard wrote: »
    I'm not complicit in anybody's murder.
    Well said but talk is cheap.


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    #17
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 27,936 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    marieholmfan wrote: »
    This is homicide and is already illegal. Femicide must not be ignored or brushed under the carpet.

    Where are the police

    Female homicide is already illegal. As is rape. Yet we have people convicted of multiple violent and sexual assaults walking the streets having served their joke of a jail term.

    Police can only catch them...judiciary and government need to step up too.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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    #18
    AllForIt
    Registered Users Posts: 8,282 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    Men kill other men too... and men are twice as likely to be murdered than women.

    Well exactly; https://www.rte.ie/news/2018/0603/967877-man-dies-in-mitchelstown/

    Men are hardly twice as likely to be murdered by women though are they???
    Would be interesting to hear if the interview talked about penalties for those actually found guilty of a serious crime.

    No because the woman suffered abuse from the male I suppose. It's alright for the women to antagonized but it doesn't work the other way around.


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    #19
    marieholmfan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,744 ✭✭✭marieholmfan


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    Female homicide is already illegal. As is rape. Yet we have people convicted of multiple violent and sexual assaults walking the streets having served their joke of a jail term.

    Police can only catch them...judiciary and government need to step up too.
    Well said and I for one do not support femicide and am pleased that it is illegal. That could be somebody's mother or somebody's wife.


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    #20
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 27,936 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    AllForIt wrote: »
    Well exactly; https://www.rte.ie/news/2018/0603/967877-man-dies-in-mitchelstown/

    Men are hardly twice as likely to be murdered by women though are they???
    .

    No but how does it speak to some male plot to specifically murder women when men murder twice as many men as women?
    It speaks to violence in males only.

    When the walls of Jericho fell all the adult males were executed and the women were taken into slavery. This was a far more misogynistic society than 21st century Ireland, a society where women have a longer life expectancy than men and are more equal with men than at any time in the previous thousand years.

    Femicide as a concept outlined in the original post is nonsense.

    We have a problem with violent crime and sexual assault though. Talk of femicide wont stop someone like Larry Murphy from striking again.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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    #21
    marieholmfan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,744 ✭✭✭marieholmfan


    odyssey06 wrote: »

    Femicide as a concept outlined in the original post is nonsense.
    Are you advocating decriminalisation?


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    #22
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 27,936 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    marieholmfan wrote: »
    Are you advocating decriminalisation?

    No it is exactly about criminalisation. Murder is not about gender inequality.
    It is a violent crime that needs to be detected, and deterred and punished.

    A life sentence should mean life.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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    #23
    ygolometsipe
    Registered Users Posts: 882 ✭✭✭ygolometsipe


    Well I'm a man and I'm a feminist.
    I happened to answer this very question in my new book.

    "The power in side you: connecting with male feminism in a post misogynistic society" € 29.99

    You can buy it on Amazon. you might also be interested in my previous book.

    "How to sell books for dummies" €7.89

    Or my first book.
    "Provocation and the art of the deal, how to help yourself avoid stress and avoid inner turmoil by ignoring some people" €19.99

    That last one is on sale in easons if you use the coupon '1995wasbetter'


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    #24
    marieholmfan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,744 ✭✭✭marieholmfan


    ygolometsipe wrote: »
    Well I'm a man and I'm a feminist.
    I happened to answer this very question in my new book.

    "The power in side you: connecting with male feminism in a post misogynistic society" € 29.99

    You can buy it on Amazon. you might also be interested in my previous book.

    "How to sell books for dummies" €7.89

    Or my first book.
    "Provocation and the art of the deal, how to help yourself avoid stress and avoid inner turmoil by ignoring some people" €19.99

    That last one is on sale in easons if you use the coupon '1995wasbetter'
    I like the sound of the second one. It is FOR Dummies and not TO Dummies?


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    #25
    marieholmfan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,744 ✭✭✭marieholmfan


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    No it is exactly about criminalisation. Murder is not about gender inequality.
    It is a violent crime that needs to be detected, and deterred and punished.

    A life sentence should mean life.
    I strongly agree. When you say life how long do you mean? 4 years or 6 years?


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    #26
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 27,936 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    marieholmfan wrote: »
    I strongly agree. When you say life how long do you mean? 4 years or 6 years?

    It means never leaving prison.
    However long that is.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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    #27
    marieholmfan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,744 ✭✭✭marieholmfan


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    It means never leaving prison.
    However long that is.
    What if the killer is from a good family or alternatively had a troubled upbringing.


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    #28
    ygolometsipe
    Registered Users Posts: 882 ✭✭✭ygolometsipe


    marieholmfan wrote: »
    I like the sound of the second one. It is FOR Dummies and not TO Dummies?

    That's correct, it deals with concepts like
    "Do you have any ideas"..."have you tried writing them down"..
    Its a slow burner but by chapter 70
    We're onto "if you wrote about that, how many people would be pissed off enough to buy your book? Even to burn it?"

    It's a trending best seller...


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    #29
    mistersifter
    Registered Users Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭mistersifter


    The idea of femicide is that it is murder that is in some way motivated by gender.

    It's a very commonly used term in Latin America at the moment. You will often hear about the killings of young women in Mexico - in Ciudad Juarez. These murders are undoubtedly gender motivated. The Inter American court of human rights accepted this and ruled that the Mexican state had not done enough to protect women. It also linked the murders to the culture of machismo that is strong across Latin America.

    In Argentina since 2015 a huge movement called Ni Una Menos has emerged and is organizing regular large scale protests to improve protection of women. One "femicide" occurs approximately every 34 hours there. A significant amount of these murders are carried out by men who are partners or ex-partners of women. There is definitely a huge problem of violence towards women in domestic situations there.

    So. I would say it's a valid term. Although I'm sure it's probably misused too.


    I expect that we'll start hearing this term a lot more here.


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    #30
    mdwexford
    Registered Users Posts: 11,274 ✭✭✭✭mdwexford


    Making up words is fun.

    Squngy, you're welcome.


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    #31
    AllForIt
    Registered Users Posts: 8,282 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    mistersifter wrote: »
    The idea of femicide is that it is murder that is in some way motivated by gender.

    It's not valid unless it's 100% motivated by gender imo.

    In my OP I didn't object to the term per so but only in the way Gillian attributed it to the issues of general misogyny - that is where the femicide is born she suggests.

    It simply is a fact that most partnerships are conducted between a man and a woman. Partnerships can involve all sorts of jealousies and domestic issues that can boil over over time. Men are physically stronger than women and they are I'd admit are more violent statistically. Thus I am saying that this phenomenon can be explained due to those facts rather than being a result of general widespread misogyny as Gillian posits. Edit: And you have to account for a bit of physiological imbalance on behalf of the killer into the the equation as well, unless one thinks that for some that killing another human being is some causal affair.


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