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Army medical and mental health
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28-05-2018 3:58pm#1I'm currently applying to the RDF (haven't even done fitness test yet) and want to become an officer in the PDF after I finish university (going into the 2nd year of a 3 year course in September). However, something that I'm worried about is that I do have a history of mild mental illness. I was at one point diagnosed with major depressive disorder and taking SSRIs for anxiety and depression. I understand that this could be a huge red flag in my application, but I am not now nor have I ever been a risk to myself or others (never even contemplated self harm or been in a fight). I really feel as though this stuff is behind me, and in fact deciding to join the army and upping my fitness has gone a long way to making that the case. I'm not sure if they'll have access to my medical records (particularly as I live up north), but I don't want to begin my dream career with a deception. If I'm honest about my past, am I sunk?0
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HomemadeMummy wrote: »I'm currently applying to the RDF (haven't even done fitness test yet) and want to become an officer in the PDF after I finish university (going into the 2nd year of a 3 year course in September). However, something that I'm worried about is that I do have a history of mild mental illness. I was at one point diagnosed with major depressive disorder and taking SSRIs for anxiety and depression. I understand that this could be a huge red flag in my application, but I am not now nor have I ever been a risk to myself or others (never even contemplated self harm or been in a fight). I really feel as though this stuff is behind me, and in fact deciding to join the army and upping my fitness has gone a long way to making that the case. I'm not sure if they'll have access to my medical records (particularly as I live up north), but I don't want to begin my dream career with a deception. If I'm honest about my past, am I sunk?
Well the only advice I can give u is the fact that u will not without a shadow of a doubt be accepted with mental health issues. Even the slightest. Or weathers it’s years upon years behind u. Have u seen the amount of soldiers suffering from mental health issues over the Lariam. You haven’t a hope if it’s mentioned and I can promise u that. But on that note. If it should happen to slip ur mind the day of the medical and ur medical files can’t be accessed well then I’m sure you should be ok.0 -
I appreciate your bluntness bmw123d, as I say though I don't actually know whether or not they can access my medical records, or may do at any time during service. Even if I thought they couldn't, it's at least morally wrong and I think also a crime to lie in your medical exam, and if I hope to have a decades long career I can't start it off with a lie. I guess I'll just make my way through the process and hope they hear me out. I don't think a person's childhood and adolescence reflect what they're capable of becoming, so I can only hope they'll see that too.0
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HomemadeMummy wrote: »I appreciate your bluntness bmw123d, as I say though I don't actually know whether or not they can access my medical records, or may do at any time during service. Even if I thought they couldn't, it's at least morally wrong and I think also a crime to lie in your medical exam, and if I hope to have a decades long career I can't start it off with a lie. I guess I'll just make my way through the process and hope they hear me out. I don't think a person's childhood and adolescence reflect what they're capable of becoming, so I can only hope they'll see that too.
People that had asthma as kids can’t join
People who had corrected eye vision years ago can’t join.
People who had years ago any bowel probs won’t get in
Anyone who had any problems down the years even if the haved had a issue in years won’t pass the medical. They are not willing to take the chance. So u can let them hear you out but I will put any amount of a bet on with u that you will not get passed the medical. I promise u that you won’t.
Mental health shouldn’t have a a bearing on anything but it does. Trust me I know I suffer with it myself.
The problem is and it’s this simple. If u have ever ever suffered with the slightest mental health issue u are never going to be allowed carry a weapon and that’s the whole point in the army so take it what way u wish and have a listen to what I’ve said to you and you can decide urself.0 -
Has anyone gone through the process before and could tell me just how thorough that aspect is? Do they access your medical records, or just interview you? From my point of view, I had an illness and I got better. Simple as. I know myself I'm not a threat to anyone just because I was feeling a bit sad for a few years, but not mentioning it seems just plain wrong and I don't even know how bad the consequences could be. I'm not going to drop out of the application, so I guess my plan is just to see how it goes.0
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HomemadeMummy wrote: »Has anyone gone through the process before and could tell me just how thorough that aspect is? Do they access your medical records, or just interview you? From my point of view, I had an illness and I got better. Simple as. I know myself I'm not a threat to anyone just because I was feeling a bit sad for a few years, but not mentioning it seems just plain wrong and I don't even know how bad the consequences could be. I'm not going to drop out of the application, so I guess my plan is just to see how it goes.
I’ve 21 years service done.0 -
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Then perhaps you can tell me, did they ever access your medical records? There's no point letting it 'slip my mind' as you say if they'll just find out anyway. You said yourself that you've suffered from mental health issues, so presumably you've kept quiet during annual tests. Do you think it's really a good idea to lie when if they ever found out you'd be immediately discharged and possibly worse?0
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Can anyone point me in the direction of a list of medical disqualifications or is it essentially just down to the medical officer when I talk to them?0
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HomemadeMummy wrote: »Can anyone point me in the direction of a list of medical disqualifications or is it essentially just down to the medical officer when I talk to them?
Should be somewhere on military.ie0 -
It isn't, some physical requirements are listed but the mental aspect is left vague, unlike for example the US or British Army who specify how long you have to be free of depression/off medications etc. It does say candidates must be in good mental health but that seems to imply that what matters is my current mental state, which would certainly be welcome news.0
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HomemadeMummy wrote: »It isn't, some physical requirements are listed but the mental aspect is left vague, unlike for example the US or British Army who specify how long you have to be free of depression/off medications etc. It does say candidates must be in good mental health but that seems to imply that what matters is my current mental state, which would certainly be welcome news.
For some reason u don’t want to listen to what I’m telling u. U can not have any mental health issues either past or present to join the Irish defence forces period. They will not take the chance. I don’t know why u wouldn’t take what’s being said to you. This is fact.
As for the uk and us military forces they have nothing to do with the medical for the Irish Defence forces.
You don’t seem to want to listen to people who know. But listen u work away and go for it and give them the info and let us all know how u get on. Just out of curiosity what makes u think that ur actually going to get the cadets. There is roughly 100 cadets a year and a massive amount of people apply for that.0 -
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With all due respect, it's not that I don't want to listen to what you're saying, it's that i don't want to take it at face value. I've asked repeatedly if there were any documents or official sources and you've given me nothing. I'm sorry if I won't give up based purely on the word of one person on a forum, but I'm someone who likes facts and evidence and I've seen none. If it truly is a fact, why isn't it spelled out anywhere, and why can nobody point me to an official DF source that says so? Frankly mate, this is a public forum so if you don't want to answer my questions nobody is making you. I'm looking for more than hearsay.
I mentioned the US and UK military as a point of comparison because they're also militaries, I do obviously understand that they aren't the same as the DF.
As for whether or not I'd make the cadets, do you really think it's a good idea to set limitations for yourself and say "I could never do that" just because it's hard and competitive? Should I only apply if I think I'll definitely get in? Wise up.0 -
HomemadeMummy wrote: »With all due respect, it's not that I don't want to listen to what you're saying, it's that i don't want to take it at face value. I've asked repeatedly if there were any documents or official sources and you've given me nothing. I'm sorry if I won't give up based purely on the word of one person on a forum, but I'm someone who likes facts and evidence and I've seen none. If it truly is a fact, why isn't it spelled out anywhere, and why can nobody point me to an official DF source that says so? Frankly mate, this is a public forum so if you don't want to answer my questions nobody is making you. I'm looking for more than hearsay.
I mentioned the US and UK military as a point of comparison because they're also militaries, I do obviously understand that they aren't the same as the DF.
As for whether or not I'd make the cadets, do you really think it's a good idea to set limitations for yourself and say "I could never do that" just because it's hard and competitive? Should I only apply if I think I'll definitely get in? Wise up.
Oh look I’m out of this mods close the thread this is going no where. The op quite clearly doesn’t really want to listen. As I’m not giving him hearsay it’s actual fact. What does he want me to post a restricted document from the defence forces?
Anyway look u go and do what u have to do. Highly doubt we will be seeing you in the defence forces.
And as for my information I’m giving you. I’m in the defence forces and giving you the information you asked for. I don’t see anyone else trying to give you advice and why is that it’s prob because there is no other serving members reading your posts. Or maybe it’s because they have seen you don’t want to listen. I’m also not one for setting limations on myself at all and I wish u all the best but let’s say u do get a interview ect who do u think there going to pick. The guy out of collage with a perfect bill of health or the guy that suffered with mental health issues(not that there is a problem with suffering with mental health because let’s face it there’s a lot of people who do)0 -
Mate I actually find it a little insulting that you expect me to have full confidence in the words of a stranger on the internet when it comes to something like this. There's no way for me to know that what you're saying is true just based on the fact that you're saying it, and I'm not asking for 'restricted' documents, I'm asking for factual proof of your claims. (If there was a document outlining that nobody who's had depression can join then why would it even need to be restricted?) If you don't have any, maybe you can't contribute anything to this dialogue. I appreciate that you're in the DF, but that doesn't make you a source of all knowledge for DF related things. Maybe it's time to admit you made a rash statement that you can't actually produce any evidence to defend. Besides, you've never claimed to be a medical officer and from the looks of it it's entirely up to them.
On the point of cadets (which if you read my OP isn't even what I'm applying to right now), if I am able to convince the medical officer that I am in good health, it'll simply be a pass on the medical exam with my interview score etc. determining whether or not I get in. When it comes time to select candidates for a cadetship all potential cadets are at that point seen to be in equally good health because all of them have passed the pass/fail medical.0 -
HomemadeMummy wrote: »Mate I actually find it a little insulting that you expect me to have full confidence in the words of a stranger on the internet when it comes to something like this. There's no way for me to know that what you're saying is true just based on the fact that you're saying it,
Yet if another random stranger on the internet said you would be grand you would happily accept their opinion.
As ex pdf, I would honestly say telling them about your prior mental health issues would be a massive black mark against you. It's been a while but I don't think they access your private medical records but they did ask me who my GP was, so maybe they have the ability to.
I've seen people discharged after being caught lying about asthma so lying has its own risks, especially if you have a relapse and end up seeking help.
You have two choices, apply, tell the truth and see what happens, or, lie and hope nothing happens and they don't find out.0 -
HomemadeMummy wrote: »Mate I actually find it a little insulting that you expect me to have full confidence in the words of a stranger on the internet when it comes to something like this.
You came here looking for a strangers opinion or experience and you got it. Nobody here is going to provide you with physical evidence from the Defence Forces Medical Corps because it is against DF Regulations to publically share that information. This is the best you will get.
However, a person with a history of mental illness (if honest at the time of application) should not pass a DF medical and will not be Enlisted or Commissioned into the DF.
If you lie on your application and get into the DF, you better bloody well make sure you say nothing to anyone. Most soldiers will rightly refuse to serve with you, home or abroad. Its not a job for someone with mental health issues for obvious reasons and I for one would seek to have you medically boarded and discharged.HomemadeMummy wrote: »There's no way for me to know that what you're saying is true just based on the fact that you're saying it, and I'm not asking for 'restricted' documents, I'm asking for factual proof of your claims. (If there was a document outlining that nobody who's had depression can join then why would it even need to be restricted?) If you don't have any, maybe you can't contribute anything to this dialogue.
Well the information you are demanding is contained in Restricted DF documentation, so no facts for you.HomemadeMummy wrote: »I appreciate that you're in the DF, but that doesn't make you a source of all knowledge for DF related things. Maybe it's time to admit you made a rash statement that you can't actually produce any evidence to defend. Besides, you've never claimed to be a medical officer and from the looks of it it's entirely up to them.
Sources? Proof? You are surely on here just to troll.HomemadeMummy wrote: »On the point of cadets (which if you read my OP isn't even what I'm applying to right now), if I am able to convince the medical officer that I am in good health, it'll simply be a pass on the medical exam with my interview score etc. determining whether or not I get in. When it comes time to select candidates for a cadetship all potential cadets are at that point seen to be in equally good health because all of them have passed the pass/fail medical.
IF this was a genuine thread and IF you managed to get into the DF, you wouldnt last very long. The pressure of the training would bring your mental health issues to the forefront again.
Anyway, hows about you focus on trying to get into the RDF first and let us know how you get on. You could then answer queries here for other folk since you will be privvy to Restricted information.
Best of luck and toodlepips.0 -
Just jumping in as I have served in the army myself. You will not get into the PDF with a mental health history regardless of when or how mild it was . Mentioning other nations military is pointless. For the following reasons the PDF when they recruit for general enlistment or cadetships are always over subscribed and can therefore be incredibly selective in how they engage. The military of other nations tend not to have to deal with with over subscription. You only waste your time trying to get in and if you some how manage to sneak through the medical plus the interview you will eventually be found out and your service will be terminated with immediate effect. Sorry to be blunt, but access to weaponry and mental health issues. Huge No No where the PDF is concerned.0
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There you go there’s a second opinion. Exactly what I told u at the start. U don’t seem to be getting how important mental health is in the defence forces. As stated what happens if u relapse u can’t say u never will although I hope you won’t but a medical officer can also not say if ur going to relapse. This is the problem u don’t have to take my word for it I actually don’t care if u don’t but think about it. One of the questions is going to be. “Have u every suffered with mental health problems” your answer will be yes so that’s going to be a big no no and it’s that simple u won’t pass the medical.
Then u have the other issues of serving overseas. Certain overseas trips use lariam for a preventative against malaria and I’m sure u have seen all the reports about lariam and mental health online. If u haven’t look it up. On of the stipulations of lariam is you can not take it if u ever suffered mental health problems because it will bring it on ten fold.
So in the same sentence the defence forces job is also to serve overseas which will also make u ineffective for overseas service which makes u not able to fill ur contract
Thus making u ineffective.
Now none of this is makey up this is fact and no matter what ur thinking u need to take ur head out of the sand a understand what ur being told. Read all this again and anyone else that reads it even the dogs on the street understand how much sense it makes.
And on that note I’d imagine ud make a great officer because u haven’t a clue and won’t listen to advice giving to you0 -
Hitman3000 wrote: »Just jumping in as I have served in the army myself. You will not get into the PDF with a mental health history regardless of when or how mild it was . Mentioning other nations military is pointless. For the following reasons the PDF when they recruit for general enlistment or cadetships are always over subscribed and can therefore be incredibly selective in how they engage. The military of other nations tend not to have to deal with with over subscription. You only waste your time trying to get in and if you show how manage to sneak through the medical you will eventually be found out and your service will be terminated with immediate effect. Sorry to be blunt, but access to weaponry and mental health issues. Huge No No where the PDF us concerned.
As has being tried to explain to this guy. But at the end of the day he knows best
Jesus listen to the info ur being giving0 -
Bmw123d wrote:As has being tried to explain to this guy. But at the end of the day he knows best
Officer material in the past , not anymore thankfully. He/She will only be wasting their own time.0 -
Yet if another random stranger on the internet said you would be grand you would happily accept their opinion.
Not really, what I'm looking for as I've said is hard evidence, because frankly it's very possible that any members of the PDF, other than medical officers, don't really know for sure. Simply having been in the PDF doesn't really give any authority to make that claim, as there's no public documentation saying that, so unless once you're in they take you into a room and let you in on the knowledge I don't know how you actually know that. I'm not trying to be offensive here, but I'm the type of person who needs evidence, sources etc. to be convinced of something. If you trawl the internet (as I have) you'll find a few other people making similar posts and commenters telling them flat out they'll be rejected. What you won't find is a single piece of evidence for that claim, whether it's an official act or just a DF memo. How is it such a well known detail that nobody who's ever had depression can join yet that fact has never been published?0 -
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HomemadeMummy wrote:Not really, what I'm looking for as I've said is hard evidence, because frankly it's very possible that any members of the PDF, other than medical officers, don't really know for sure. Simply having been in the PDF doesn't really give any authority to make that claim, as there's no public documentation saying that, so unless once you're in they take you into a room and let you in on the knowledge I don't know how you actually know that. I'm not trying to be offensive here, but I'm the type of person who needs evidence, sources etc. to be convinced of something. If you trawl the internet (as I have) you'll find a few other people making similar posts and commenters telling them flat out they'll be rejected. What you won't find is a single piece of evidence for that claim, whether it's an official act or just a DF memo. How is it such a well known detail that nobody who's ever had depression can join yet that fact has never been published?
I strongly suggest you look up the meaning of 'restricted'. Of course if you're not willing to listen or heed people who have served please feel free to update the thread when and if you get into the RDF and please definitely if you do manage to sneak past the med and interview for the PDF either GE or CT.0 -
A Quick Search on google shows this:3. MEDICAL AND PHYSICAL STANDARDS
Candidates must be in good mental and bodily health and free from any physical
defect, abnormality, physiological condition or past history of serious illness likely
to interfere with the efficient performance of his/her duties.
http://www.military.ie/fileadmin/user_upload/Careers_docs/Cadets_2015/150407_J1_COMP__Apr_Cadet_TCs2015.pdf0 -
HomemadeMummy wrote: »Not really, what I'm looking for as I've said is hard evidence, because frankly it's very possible that any members of the PDF, other than medical officers, don't really know for sure. Simply having been in the PDF doesn't really give any authority to make that claim, as there's no public documentation saying that, so unless once you're in they take you into a room and let you in on the knowledge I don't know how you actually know that. I'm not trying to be offensive here, but I'm the type of person who needs evidence, sources etc. to be convinced of something. If you trawl the internet (as I have) you'll find a few other people making similar posts and commenters telling them flat out they'll be rejected. What you won't find is a single piece of evidence for that claim, whether it's an official act or just a DF memo. How is it such a well known detail that nobody who's ever had depression can join yet that fact has never been published?
Because it’s simple u will not pass the medical. Because we all no people who have suffered with some sort of mental health problem and told the medical officers and have not being signed off.
Your prob right there prob isn’t a piece of paper that states it. That’s between the medical officers and the director of medical corps. But look u seem to think u know best and because it doesn’t state it. And ur the one trolling because ur not listening to people who have being through medicals every year during there service ect.
I noticed u didn’t reply to the part about the overseas service. Go read the lariam precatuations it will clearly state u can not take them if u suffered with mental health issues. So then u can’t take it. Then u can’t serve overseas there for making you not medically fit therefore u can’t not physically pass a medical. Why is it so hard for you to take what people are telling you. You are wasting ur time going for it like me and others have told you.0 -
Hitman3000 wrote: »a
I strongly suggest you look up the meaning of 'restricted'. Of course if you're not willing to listen or heed people who have served please feel free to update the thread when and if you get into the RDF and please definitely if you do manage to sneak past the med and interview for the PDF either GE or CT.
Until minutes ago I wasn't actually made aware that the documents I'm asking for are restricted. I'm willing to listen but I really don't think I should be getting so much **** for wanting sources. Is it really such a bad quality to want your facts to be facts? I understand now that I'm not privy to this information, which I accept, but should that not have been the case I think I'm absolutely in the right to want evidence. I study law and I've been trained as to the importance of evidence, but some people on this thread seem to think there's something wrong with me for wanting it. The fact of the matter is that I'm in a good mental place now, my problems were the result of circumstances which aren't present anymore and I am not a liar.0 -
HomemadeMummy wrote: »Until minutes ago I wasn't actually made aware that the documents I'm asking for are restricted. I'm willing to listen but I really don't think I should be getting so much **** for wanting sources. Is it really such a bad quality to want your facts to be facts? I understand now that I'm not privy to this information, which I accept, but should that not have been the case I think I'm absolutely in the right to want evidence. I study law and I've been trained as to the importance of evidence, but some people on this thread seem to think there's something wrong with me for wanting it. The fact of the matter is that I'm in a good mental place now, my problems were the result of circumstances which aren't present anymore and I am not a liar.
This explains a lot. U won’t fit in in the defence forces anyway with the way u carry on.
And as for not suffering with it now u have being told they won’t take the chance because of relapse.0 -
A Quick Search on google shows this:3. MEDICAL AND PHYSICAL STANDARDS
Candidates must be in good mental and bodily health and free from any physical
defect, abnormality, physiological condition or past history of serious illness likely
to interfere with the efficient performance of his/her duties.
http://www.military.ie/fileadmin/user_upload/Careers_docs/Cadets_2015/150407_J1_COMP__Apr_Cadet_TCs2015.pdf
I did see that, but it's unclear if depression is considered a 'serious' illness. Furthermore it seems to me that it would be up to the medical officer whether or not it's likely to interfere with performance of duty. I'm sorry if you guys think I'm being anal or annoying, but by the strictest reading of the rules available to me it would seem I'm in with a chance.0 -
HomemadeMummy wrote: »I did see that, but it's unclear if depression is considered a 'serious' illness. Furthermore it seems to me that it would be up to the medical officer whether or not it's likely to interfere with performance of duty. I'm sorry if you guys think I'm being anal or annoying, but by the strictest reading of the rules available to me it would seem I'm in with a chance.
I’m done trying to tell u it won’t work. Ur not worth a chance because they won’t take that chance.
Tell you what u come back hear and tell us how u get on but I bet you won’t be back why? Because u will not pass ur medical0 -
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HomemadeMummy wrote:Until minutes ago I wasn't actually made aware that the documents I'm asking for are restricted. I'm willing to listen but I really don't think I should be getting so much **** for wanting sources. Is it really such a bad quality to want your facts to be facts? I understand now that I'm not privy to this information, which I accept, but should that not have been the case I think I'm absolutely in the right to want evidence. I study law and I've been trained as to the importance of evidence, but some people on this thread seem to think there's something wrong with me for wanting it. The fact of the matter is that I'm in a good mental place now, my problems were the result of circumstances which aren't present anymore and I am not a liar.
You're in a good place now, happy for you and that's genuine. However you were in a bad place before and this males you mentally unfit for service. Accept or don't accept your choice and time. I would as I already stated choose a different career. Anyway best of luck I'm wasting no more of my time responding. You got properly informed about your chances just not what you wanted to hear. Bye.0 -
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HomemadeMummy wrote: »That's really not your call, you don't know a thing about me.
Ur right it’s not my call but I’m the one in the know and I’ve tried explaining to you every way possible. Have u listened no u haven’t. Why because u think u know best. I bet you that u will be one of these guys now that when ur told u didn’t pass ur medical that u will have to chase that and go on about ur law facts. Well guess what the army won’t have to answer you.
I’ve being nice and I’ve tried to be helpful but u are clueless. The fact is YOU WILL NOT GET INTO THE DEFENCE FORCES0
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