Zeroing in a scope ?

Visconti

I got a cheap .22 rifle (puma) and have put a few hundred bullets through it trying to zero the scope but its always miles off and the scope is down full but its still shooting high.
I am trying it a 15 meters approx should I be further ?
Have watched loads of you tube videos but still a disaster.....

juice1304

I would zero it at a longer distance, maybe post a pic so we can see the way you have it set up.
I normally zero my .22 at 100m some would think its a bit far however for the shooting i was doing it was grand.
it all depends on what you want to do with the rifle, id recommend looking at some ballistic calculator and then you can figure out the best zero based on the drop and how far you are intending on shooting etc..

Regardless of the zero how does the rifle group?

Zeroing is quite simple when everything is in order.
I take the bolt out of the rifle, look down the bore and line up the centre of the target with the centre of my bore, then without moving the rifle adjust the scope to about the same. You should then be on paper. Take one shot and then either go down to the target and measure how far off you are and adjust the scope based on your angular measurement mils or moa. etc. or you can simply aim where you did and adjust the turrets until the crosshairs is where the round actually landed, your second shot should be for any small adjustments and the third to confirm.
There could be other things at play though, like your rings being too high, the rings having a problem, being loose or over tightened. the scope may have a problem etc. or you may have an issue with the rifle like the crown is damaged or the stock became damp at some point and swelled in the barrel channel and is now touching the barrel etc...

Id eliminate the question of does the rifle group first. then look at the rings etc.. and finally the scope.

rsole1

Visconti wrote: »

I got a cheap .22 rifle (puma) and have put a few hundred bullets through it trying to zero the scope but its always miles off and the scope is down full but its still shooting high.
I am trying it a 15 meters approx should I be further ?
Have watched loads of you tube videos but still a disaster.....

15 mtrs is OK to try and get it on the paper. As suggested look down the bore and then adjust the scope accordingly. If you can put the rifle in a vice it will be more stable. But first take the scope back off the rifle and mechanically centre the windage and elevation. Turn clockwise as far as it will go, then wind back anti clockwise counting the clicks as you go. When it gets to the end of its travel wind it back half the clicks so that at least it's in the middle of it's travel. Do it for both windage and elevation.

Visconti

Today I tried again with scope. Its a nikko sterling 4-12x50 ao mount master. The gun is a puma .22lr. I counted the clicks on the top and the wind adjusters it was 120 - 110 if I remember correctly. I brought both to halfway and took a shot at 15 metres It shot to the right and high...... I brought the windage across completely and got it almost perfect but ran out of clicks I brought the top one to the full amount of clicks and it was still shooting very high there were no more clicks. I was getting groups of about 2".
I am thinking of getting different mounts or something......... I didnt expect it to be so difficult to zero a rifle.

Cass

You need to make sure that your procedure for zeroing the rifle is correct, that you have the proper set up to do it, and then test the scope but not for groups for tracking.

A couple of things stand out to me based on your description. The scope is not mounted correctly or more accurately linear to the bore. The second thing that reaffirms this is the fact you had to use all your windage adjustment to get close to the point of impact.

Mounting a scope has to be done in a very controlled and specific way. Believe it or not just screwing the tops of the rings down without care or without following an order can "pull" the scope off centre however with over 120 clicks or 30 MOA which translates into 30 inches or 2.5 feet at 100 yards of adjustment to one side i think you have an alignment issue with the rings.

Two options are to shim the bases/rings or buy new ones. You can of course lap your current rings but the lapping kit can be as much as a new set of rings.

cookimonster

Send a picture of your set up, all jokes aside, ensure your scope is the right way up, can happen. Windage will be on the side of the scope and the elevation on the top.
This may sound simple stupid to an experienced chap but guys can' get confused especially when there's whistles and bells attached.
This gun should use standard CZ rings

daithi55

where are you located.. maybe i or someone else can give you a hand someday if you like

Visconti

daithi55 wrote: »

where are you located.. maybe i or someone else can give you a hand someday if you like

Near Trim in meath but am in Dublin daily.
Thanks

Visconti

daithi55 wrote: »

where are you located.. maybe i or someone else can give you a hand someday if you like

Near Trim in meath but am in Dublin daily.
Thanks

garv123

try swapping the mounts around, worked for me, they're not always perfect and that can make a big difference.

Visconti

Photos

cookimonster

Thanks for the pictures.
The first thing that strikes me is the comb on the gun (where your cheek makes contact with the butt of the rifle is very low.

Take the rifle up (usual safety precautions) and mount the gun but do NOT try to look through the scope. Firmly establish a good cheek weld on the stock and look through the back of the action as if you are aiming the gun. If your pupil is below the rim of the ocular of the scope then the scope is too high or your comb too low.
If the your cheek weld is inconsistent then your grouping will be poor. You have two options here, fitt a lower set of rings (ensuring the scope does not touch the barrel or action) or build up the comb to allow you to centre your eye to the back of the scope.
Also ensure your eye relief is correct so that you have a clear round sight picture with no black shadowing or crescent appearing around the edges of the picture. Lossen your mounts and adjust your scope forward or back to achieve proper eye relief.

When zeroing remove the moderator, this will eliminate any chance of a mechanical fault. Bore sight the gun using a black dot about an inch in diameter at approx 25m. When you get on paper remember that a scope with a click value of 4 clicks per inch at 100 yards will be 16 clicks at 25 yards.
If your off the bull at 25 yards by an inch then at 50 yards it's doubled and quadrupled at 100yards. So when getting on target at 25 ensure very tight accuracy.
Once your happy with your 25 yards shots go out to 50 and rerezo to bullseye. Click value here is 8 per inch if the scope is 4 per inch at 100 yards. If your happy here then your final zero is up to you, some guys stick with 50yrd others with a further distance.
Ensure the weather is good with light or no wind.
Shoot prone, using ground support on the front end of the stock (never the barrel). Bag of play sand is good.
Use a back bag, kilo bag of rice in a sock or rolled up tea cloths.
Point the rifle in the direction of the target (your range area should be flat, your fireing point facing directly out to the target with no elevation / depression. The butt and muzzle should be in perfect line with the bullseye.
Address the target and rifle and lay behind it with out changing the direction of the rifle.
There are a few schools of taught behind the lying position, but insure your legs are flat, your chest comfortably raised to allow breathing but no muscle strain.
The rifle should be supported by the rest (adjust as need to keep the sight picture correct) but be as close to the ground as you can.
Use your elbows to support your upper body with out strain.
Once you have a good steady shooting position in which the rifle is not moving then go through your fundamentals of aiming, breath control, shot realise and follow through.

If after all this you are consistently grouping rounds, any where in the target then it is a matter of adjusting the scope.
If the scope won't adjust but still groups there is a mechanical issue with the scope or your set up of the mounts.
If grouping is inconsistent then you may need some one to shoot the rifle and compare the results.
If this fails you need to get a proven scope and retest the rifle.

Rows Grower

cookimonster wrote: »

Thanks for the pictures.
The first thing that strikes me is the comb on the gun (where your cheek makes contact with the butt of the rifle is very low.

Take the rifle up (usual safety precautions) and mount the gun but do NOT try to look through the scope. Firmly establish a good cheek weld on the stock and look through the back of the action as if you are aiming the gun. If your pupil is below the rim of the ocular of the scope then the scope is too high or your comb too low.
If the your cheek weld is inconsistent then your grouping will be poor. You have two options here, fitt a lower set of rings (ensuring the scope does not touch the barrel or action) or build up the comb to allow you to centre your eye to the back of the scope.
Also ensure your eye relief is correct so that you have a clear round sight picture with no black shadowing or crescent appearing around the edges of the picture. Lossen your mounts and adjust your scope forward or back to achieve proper eye relief.

When zeroing remove the moderator, this will eliminate any chance of a mechanical fault. Bore sight the gun using a black dot about an inch in diameter at approx 25m. When you get on paper remember that a scope with a click value of 4 clicks per inch at 100 yards will be 16 clicks at 25 yards.
If your off the bull at 25 yards by an inch then at 50 yards it's doubled and quadrupled at 100yards. So when getting on target at 25 ensure very tight accuracy.
Once your happy with your 25 yards shots go out to 50 and rerezo to bullseye. Click value here is 8 per inch if the scope is 4 per inch at 100 yards. If your happy here then your final zero is up to you, some guys stick with 50yrd others with a further distance.
Ensure the weather is good with light or no wind.
Shoot prone, using ground support on the front end of the stock (never the barrel). Bag of play sand is good.
Use a back bag, kilo bag of rice in a sock or rolled up tea cloths.
Point the rifle in the direction of the target (your range area should be flat, your fireing point facing directly out to the target with no elevation / depression. The butt and muzzle should be in perfect line with the bullseye.
Address the target and rifle and lay behind it with out changing the direction of the rifle.
There are a few schools of taught behind the lying position, but insure your legs are flat, your chest comfortably raised to allow breathing but no muscle strain.
The rifle should be supported by the rest (adjust as need to keep the sight picture correct) but be as close to the ground as you can.
Use your elbows to support your upper body with out strain.
Once you have a good steady shooting position in which the rifle is not moving then go through your fundamentals of aiming, breath control, shot realise and follow through.

If after all this you are consistently grouping rounds, any where in the target then it is a matter of adjusting the scope.
If the scope won't adjust but still groups there is a mechanical issue with the scope or your set up of the mounts.
If grouping is inconsistent then you may need some one to shoot the rifle and compare the results.
If this fails you need to get a proven scope and retest the rifle.

I'm going to print this off tomorrow for easy reference.

Thanks for posting it.

Wadi14

For a .22 as already mentioned I would shim the rings with some bicycle tube, if its shooting high put shim on the bottom of the back ring where the scope sits down onto the ring. so centre the cross hair and then shim with 1 piece and put scope back on rifle and shoot 5 rounds and check if it needs more shim add more, use the shims to bring ur rifle onto the target as close to center as possible that means u have all the click adjustments still left for when u need to go to longer distances, zero at 25 use support to help u keep the rifle steady.

Visconti

cookimonster wrote: »

Thanks for the pictures.
The first thing that strikes me is the comb on the gun (where your cheek makes contact with the butt of the rifle is very low.

Take the rifle up (usual safety precautions) and mount the gun but do NOT try to look through the scope. Firmly establish a good cheek weld on the stock and look through the back of the action as if you are aiming the gun. If your pupil is below the rim of the ocular of the scope then the scope is too high or your comb too low.
If the your cheek weld is inconsistent then your grouping will be poor. You have two options here, fitt a lower set of rings (ensuring the scope does not touch the barrel or action) or build up the comb to allow you to centre your eye to the back of the scope.
Also ensure your eye relief is correct so that you have a clear round sight picture with no black shadowing or crescent appearing around the edges of the picture. Lossen your mounts and adjust your scope forward or back to achieve proper eye relief.

When zeroing remove the moderator, this will eliminate any chance of a mechanical fault. Bore sight the gun using a black dot about an inch in diameter at approx 25m. When you get on paper remember that a scope with a click value of 4 clicks per inch at 100 yards will be 16 clicks at 25 yards.
If your off the bull at 25 yards by an inch then at 50 yards it's doubled and quadrupled at 100yards. So when getting on target at 25 ensure very tight accuracy.
Once your happy with your 25 yards shots go out to 50 and rerezo to bullseye. Click value here is 8 per inch if the scope is 4 per inch at 100 yards. If your happy here then your final zero is up to you, some guys stick with 50yrd others with a further distance.
Ensure the weather is good with light or no wind.
Shoot prone, using ground support on the front end of the stock (never the barrel). Bag of play sand is good.
Use a back bag, kilo bag of rice in a sock or rolled up tea cloths.
Point the rifle in the direction of the target (your range area should be flat, your fireing point facing directly out to the target with no elevation / depression. The butt and muzzle should be in perfect line with the bullseye.
Address the target and rifle and lay behind it with out changing the direction of the rifle.
There are a few schools of taught behind the lying position, but insure your legs are flat, your chest comfortably raised to allow breathing but no muscle strain.
The rifle should be supported by the rest (adjust as need to keep the sight picture correct) but be as close to the ground as you can.
Use your elbows to support your upper body with out strain.
Once you have a good steady shooting position in which the rifle is not moving then go through your fundamentals of aiming, breath control, shot realise and follow through.

If after all this you are consistently grouping rounds, any where in the target then it is a matter of adjusting the scope.
If the scope won't adjust but still groups there is a mechanical issue with the scope or your set up of the mounts.
If grouping is inconsistent then you may need some one to shoot the rifle and compare the results.
If this fails you need to get a proven scope and retest the rifle.

Going to work on this. I am new to rifles but totally addicted already. There is so much precision involved. I have shot a bit of clays over the years but nothing would have prepared me for the intricacies of rifle shooting. I shot a handgun in America too but think I will be into rifles for life. Can only imagine what a high end centrefire gun is like but I have to start somewhere. Thanks to everyone for comments and advice on the thread.

solarwinds

I will guarantee you one thing for sure. You should have got a bigger safe.

Visconti

solarwinds wrote: »

I will guarantee you one thing for sure. You should have got a bigger safe.

Is it not limited to 3 guns for private people or you need more than just a safe bolted to the wall ? I have 2 already so it leaves space for a centerfire or something fancy....

solarwinds

Yep after that its an alarm. But it is nice to have a selection.

Visconti

solarwinds wrote: »

Yep after that its an alarm. But it is nice to have a selection.

House alarm ? What type of alarm ?

solarwinds

An alarm on the location they are stored. Either a house alarm or an alarm on the room the safe is in. I have heard of just the safe itself being alarmed but not sure on that one. Personally id go with the house better safe than sorry.

Visconti

solarwinds wrote: »

An alarm on the location they are stored. Either a house alarm or an alarm on the room the safe is in. I have heard of just the safe itself being alarmed but not sure on that one. Personally id go with the house better safe than sorry.

My house is alarmed. Its a very good alarm. Does that mean I can get more guns :D:D:D:D

solarwinds

Yep crack on.

Cass

These are the minimum standards you need for the amount of firearms you own. Minimum means these standards the least you have in place before reaching this level of gun ownership.

Only good news is there is no limit on the amount of firearm or frequency with which you can apply for them.

meathstevie

Visconti wrote: »

Near Trim in meath but am in Dublin daily.
Thanks

PM me if you like. I'm only a few miles away. We can have a look together.

extremetaz

meathstevie wrote: »

PM me if you like. I'm only a few miles away. We can have a look together.

Same as that - I'm only a hop from Trim.

Chiparus

What make and model scope are you using?