Western Rail Corridor / Rail Trail

Markcheese

Del.Monte wrote: »

I thought that Athenry/Claremorris remains classified as an engineer's siding and I am puzzled by the tarring over of the tracks rather than the fence. Anyway, IE should pursue all those who walked down the tracks for trespass - the fines could go towards the reopening costs.

Well, at least there's absolutely no chance of the public being hit by a train... 😀

serfboard

Markcheese wrote: »

Well, at least there's absolutely no chance of the public being hit by a train ...

And gives the lie to the statement that "A train could be run on it tomorrow" as Frank Dawson told the Oireachtas Committee.

(And fair enough, that statement was made in 2015 - but it was untrue then too).

westtip

westtip wrote: »

Yep €300,000 - lets put that in writing Three Hundred Thousand Euro thrown at a project by Minister Ring, with No Planning permission (apparently not required according to Mayo coco), very little public support, no public consultation and no hope of success......and by the way even after €300,000 has already been spent on this project (The Velo-Rail project), there is nothing yet to show for it, despite the fact the original proposal to Minister Rings department said the whole project would cost €200,000.

Somebody needs to be asking some serious questions......Oh apparently they are!:D

That honestly sounds like something the PAC should be digging into.

JCX BXC

Onto the existing corridor, every week, without fail, the Friday 17:50 service to Limerick Junction is delayed 15 minutes waiting for the inbound train. 9 weeks straight. Frustrating.

westtip

JCX BXC wrote: »

Onto the existing corridor, every week, without fail, the Friday 17:50 service to Limerick Junction is delayed 15 minutes waiting for the inbound train. 9 weeks straight. Frustrating.

Ask them to change the timetable so the 17.50 becomes the 18.05! But really if they had double tracked ennis Athenry and electrified the track they wouldn't need a timetable as they could have a service every ten minutes....Sure isn't there the demand for it:D

eastwest

serfboard wrote: »

And gives the lie to the statement that "A train could be run on it tomorrow" as Frank Dawson told the Oireachtas Committee.

(And fair enough, that statement was made in 2015 - but it was untrue then too).

His mate Coleman O'Reilly said at the same meeting that 'There is a major proposal for the development of a multi-modal freight hub in Claremorris, with the railway line at the centre. It is being developed by private investors who will be contacting Iarnród Éireann in the very near future'.
The notion of what constitutes ' the future' or 'the near future' is not something that these guys understand very well. Maybe they get their predictions in the same place they get their figures for Ennis-Athenry?

Muckyboots

eastwest wrote: »

His mate Coleman O'Reilly said at the same meeting that 'There is a major proposal for the development of a multi-modal freight hub in Claremorris, with the railway line at the centre. It is being developed by private investors who will be contacting Iarnród Éireann in the very near future'.
The notion of what constitutes ' the future' or 'the near future' is not something that these guys understand very well. Maybe they get their predictions in the same place they get their figures for Ennis-Athenry?

Wooo...Advocating for privatisation of part of our public transport system? And a private investor, one is to understand, not famed for fair treatment of their workers. I think the Unions might have had something to say about this- if it was to be true.

Lord Glentoran

Muckyboots wrote: »

Wooo...Advocating for privatisation of part of our public transport system? And a private investor, one is to understand, not famed for fair treatment of their workers. I think the Unions might have had something to say about this- if it was to be true.

You aren’t worried about libel then?

To change the words of a well-known Song, “Tramp, Tramp Tramp go the soldiers of the Legion of the Mudguard”

eastwest

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

Muckyboots wrote: »

Wooo...Advocating for privatisation of part of our public transport system? And a private investor, one is to understand, not famed for fair treatment of their workers. I think the Unions might have had something to say about this- if it was to be true.

You aren’t worried about libel then?

Since the 'investor' seems to have been a figment of the collective wot imagination, it would be hard to see who considered themselves libelled.

Lord Glentoran

eastwest wrote: »

Since the 'investor' seems to have been a figment of the collective wot imagination, it would be hard to see who considered themselves labelled.

That was a quick response. So, if the ‘investor’ was imaginary, where did the presumed reaction of ‘the Unions’ come from? A DeValera like look into the heart?

eastwest

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

That was a quick response. So, if the ‘investor’ was imaginary, where did the presumed reaction of ‘the Unions’ come from? A DeValera like look into the heart?

MB did qualify his comment with 'if it was to be true', after all.
The more important question is, was WOT deliberately deceiving the transport committee with talk of an investor for freight in Claremorris, or were they just generally spoofing? Or was it all just wishful thinking?
I think we should be told.

Lord Glentoran

eastwest wrote: »

MB did qualify his comment with 'if it was to be true', after all.
The more important question is, was WOT deliberately deceiving the transport committee with talk of an investor for freight in Claremorris, or were they just generally spoofing? Or was it all just wishful thinking?
I think we should be told.

Maybe Someone will put out a press release to ask to be telt then.

eastwest

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

Maybe Someone will put out a press release to ask to be telt then.

I think it is logical to assume that since (a) they referred to a private investor who would be contacting IE in 'the very near future', and (b) since that statement was made several years ago, then the veracity of the statement made has to be called into question.
Unless of course the WOT idea of 'the very near future' is a lot more elastic than the way the phrase is understood by the general population. Maybe they consider that 'the very near future' actually means 'in fifty years' time', or 'maybe never'.
Which might account for what the general population sees as their naive optimism on a timescale for seeing trains on the western rail trail.
But I still think we should be told.

serfboard

Coleman O'Reilly wrote:

It is being developed by private investors who will be contacting Iarnród Éireann in the very near future.

So, Coleman, who are these private investors?

You said that they would be contacting Iarnrod Eireann in the "very near future". Given that it's over three and a half years since you made that statement, have they contacted Iarnrod Eireann with regard to their proposed development?

If so, when did that meeting take place and what was the outcome?

If someone was to offer the opinion that your words were at best, fanciful and at worst, mendacious, what evidence could you produce that they were not?

Mikedexter

eastwest wrote: »

Very little evidence of anyone in the rail lobby caring much about public funds in this whole debate. The money thrown at Kiltimagh is a disgrace, and nothing to show for it.

The cost overrun was on the rail lines

Not sure where the money will come from to complete the project

It certainly won't come from the so-called charity behind the project

Lord Glentoran

Mikedexter wrote: »

The cost overrun was on the rail lines

Not sure where the money will come from to complete the project

It certainly won't come from the so-called charity behind the project

Perhaps a nice clean AstroTurf surface would be preferred

Mikedexter

It was obvious there would be major overruns bringing the lines up to scratch .

The figure of up to '30,000 visitors a year' is laughable.

There will be pockets of visitors using the velorail. There'll be low paid staff running the operation with the profits propping up a local charity organization.

The money should have been spent solely on a Greenway for the benefit of the local community.

eastwest

Mikedexter wrote: »

It was obvious there would be major overruns bringing the lines up to scratch .

The figure of up to '30,000 visitors a year' is laughable.

There will be pockets of visitors using the velorail. There'll be low paid staff running the operation with the profits propping up a local charity organization.

The money should have been spent solely on a Greenway for the benefit of the local community.

That was never going to happen. The entire logic for resurrecting and supporting this project was about stopping a greenway being built.

Lord Glentoran

Mikedexter wrote: »

It was obvious there would be major overruns bringing the lines up to scratch .

The figure of up to '30,000 visitors a year' is laughable.

There will be pockets of visitors using the velorail. There'll be low paid staff running the operation with the profits propping up a local charity organization.

The money should have been spent solely on a Greenway for the benefit of the local community.

“Faceless men in Dublin” closed railways and grudged infrastructure going into the west, and now want the west to be their compliant playground. Thinking outside the oblong box that much of the gombeen men and sheer incompetents cast the west into is every bit as forbidden now, as it was back in the day.

John Healy in the sixties wrote a series of articles for the Irish Times, published in book form as “Death of an Irish Town”. The life was sucked out of the west; and received opinion then, as now with some vocal people, was that we should be grateful for crumbs off the table who saw themselves as our betters. No more.

http://www.mayonews.ie/features/26806-spotlight-charlestown-no-one-shouted-stop-still-echoes

Muckyboots

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

Perhaps a nice clean AstroTurf surface would be preferred

Well time for the men behind the wire to decommission their Canon's and let local communities take control of public infrastructure in a way that benefits them - and not a group of niche hobbyists with latent (but waining) access to connected lobbyists. The WRC, after all, is a relic of colonial masters who built the network, incl Cliften and Achill, to allow them to move around their planters playground without having to mix with the peasants. In words of that old song..."Green is the colour, cycling is the game, we're all together singing out our name, so cheer us on in the sun and the rain.."😉

eastwest

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

Mikedexter wrote: »

It was obvious there would be major overruns bringing the lines up to scratch .

The figure of up to '30,000 visitors a year' is laughable.

There will be pockets of visitors using the velorail. There'll be low paid staff running the operation with the profits propping up a local charity organization.

The money should have been spent solely on a Greenway for the benefit of the local community.

“Faceless men in Dublin” closed railways and grudged infrastructure going into the west, and now want the west to be their compliant playground. Thinking outside the oblong box that much of the gombeen men and sheer incompetents cast the west into is every bit as forbidden now, as it was back in the day.

John Healy in the sixties wrote a series of articles for the Irish Times, published in book form as “Death of an Irish Town”. The life was sucked out of the west; and received opinion then, as now with some vocal people, was that we should be grateful for crumbs off the table who saw themselves as our betters. No more.

http://www.mayonews.ie/features/26806-spotlight-charlestown-no-one-shouted-stop-still-echoes

'Faceless men' didn't close and don't close railways. Local people who don't use them are the ones that close them -- you can't keep a railway open once usage drops down to a handful of people.
The reason local people don't use these 19th century routes of course is because there aren't enough of them, they don't suit their needs, and alternatives are more attractive and cost effective.
The notion that resurrecting a piece of antiquated victorian infrastructure will solve the problems of the west is naive and shows a complete lack of understanding of why the west is in decline. This ignorance is often manifested be a hatred of tourism, one of the industries that helps sustain local communities elsewhere, that can be the catalyst for rural renewal, and that helps make areas attractive to modern in industries such as the IT sector. This ilogical hatred of outsiders coming to spend money on rural localities is often described in populist, disparaging terms as 'Dublin 4 types on bikes' or indeed in terms like 'compliant playground'.
Areas that understand basic economics and the development of sustainable industries are happy to allow high-end sustainable tourism to maintain local services, to support local jobs and to attract additional industries drawn by the resultant quality of life can and do profit from tourism infrastructure. In laces like Kiltimagh and Claremorris however, a small number of people prefer to wallow in the past while leaving their brains outside the door.
The only way forward, while these views prevail, is downward.

eastwest

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

Mikedexter wrote: »

It was obvious there would be major overruns bringing the lines up to scratch .

The figure of up to '30,000 visitors a year' is laughable.

There will be pockets of visitors using the velorail. There'll be low paid staff running the operation with the profits propping up a local charity organization.

The money should have been spent solely on a Greenway for the benefit of the local community.

“Faceless men in Dublin” closed railways and grudged infrastructure going into the west, and now want the west to be their compliant playground. Thinking outside the oblong box that much of the gombeen men and sheer incompetents cast the west into is every bit as forbidden now, as it was back in the day.

John Healy in the sixties wrote a series of articles for the Irish Times, published in book form as “Death of an Irish Town”. The life was sucked out of the west; and received opinion then, as now with some vocal people, was that we should be grateful for crumbs off the table who saw themselves as our betters. No more.

http://www.mayonews.ie/features/26806-spotlight-charlestown-no-one-shouted-stop-still-echoes

'Faceless men' didn't close and don't close railways. Local people who don't use them are the ones that close them -- you can't keep a railway open once usage drops down to a handful of people.
The reason local people don't use these 19th century routes of course is because there aren't enough of them, they don't suit their needs, and alternatives are more attractive and cost effective.
The notion that resurrecting a piece of antiquated victorian infrastructure will solve the problems of the west is naive and shows a complete lack of understanding of why the west is in decline. This ignorance is often manifested be a hatred of tourism, one of the industries that helps sustain local communities elsewhere, that can be the catalyst for rural renewal, and that helps make areas attractive to modern in industries such as the IT sector. This ilogical hatred of outsiders coming to spend money on rural localities is often described in populist, disparaging terms as 'Dublin 4 types on bikes' or indeed in terms like 'compliant playground'.
Areas that understand basic economics and the development of sustainable industries are happy to allow high-end sustainable tourism to maintain local services, to support local jobs and to attract additional industries drawn by the resultant quality of life can and do profit from tourism infrastructure. In laces like Kiltimagh and Claremorris however, a small number of people prefer to wallow in the past while leaving their brains outside the door.
The only way forward, while these views prevail, is downward.

Plus the most important fact of all, most railways were originally built for freight!
The passengers were secondary to the bread & butter freight trade, rail travel for commuters came much later and only after the line was in operation for several years with passenger trains slotted between the freight service, or as an afterthought by putting a passenger car on to a freight train.

In reality, there is little scope for commuter rail services on many of the closed lines (imagine they're open) once the freight services dwindled to nothing the lines died.

Muckyboots

Mikedexter wrote: »

The cost overrun was on the rail lines

Not sure where the money will come from to complete the project

It certainly won't come from the so-called charity behind the project

Time to give the PAC a Ring.

Mikedexter

Muckyboots wrote: »

Time to give the PAC a Ring.

Just make sure to contact the right party

There's a vipers nest of FG ,local charity and CoCo involved all with close ties.

Del.Monte

[QUOTE=Deleted User;108780673]Plus the most important fact of all, most railways were originally built for freight!
The passengers were secondary to the bread & butter freight trade, rail travel for commuters came much later and only after the line was in operation for several years with passenger trains slotted between the freight service, or as an afterthought by putting a passenger car on to a freight train.

In reality, there is little scope for commuter rail services on many of the closed lines (imagine they're open) once the freight services dwindled to nothing the lines died.[/QUOTE]

Where are you getting this stuff from? The anti-rail colours of those supporting the WRC project are really showing now. I'll say no more in case I get site banned.

Lord Glentoran

Del.Monte wrote: »

Where are you getting this stuff from? The anti-rail colours of those supporting the WRC project are really showing now. I'll say no more in case I get site banned.

To avoid sanction put Lycra on and get with the program. American spelling deliberately used. Ireland’s Destiny is the god-awful sprawl of Letterkenny and all dissenting voices to this will be piled on. Why plan towns with meaningful transport links when there’s a fast buck to be made on one house to the acre?

Lord Glentoran

Mikedexter wrote: »

Just make sure to contact the right party

There's a vipers nest of FG ,local charity and CoCo involved all with close ties.

Ok. First off it’s Sinn Féin. Then it’s neo-Unionists because the railways are a relic of the Brits exploiting the Irish. Now it’s Fine Gael. Sounds like a night in a pub where I would normally be making my way discreetly to the door by now.

Mikedexter

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

Ok. First off it’s Sinn Féin. Then it’s neo-Unionists because the railways are a relic of the Brits exploiting the Irish. Now it’s Fine Gael. Sounds like a night in a pub where I would normally be making my way discreetly to the door by now.

The velorail is all tied to the FG side

I Don't.know.much about the wider picture

eastwest

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

Del.Monte wrote: »

Where are you getting this stuff from? The anti-rail colours of those supporting the WRC project are really showing now. I'll say no more in case I get site banned.

To avoid sanction put Lycra on and get with the program. American spelling deliberately used. Ireland’s Destiny is the god-awful sprawl of Letterkenny and all dissenting voices to this will be piled on. Why plan towns with meaningful transport links when there’s a fast buck to be made on one house to the acre?

One house to the acre is definitely part of the reason why passenger rail services won't happen on the wrc.
But that's how an awful lot of people chose to live, and you can't go around rural ireland and herd them all into a couple of large towns in order to create a demand for a railway on this redundant route. This scattered development is a fact of life, as are the small towns with a handful of occupants.