The Healy Raes

Atlantic Dawn

Would love to hear their thoughts on Covid-19 and their solutions.

Muahahaha

Yurt! wrote: »

Well I think you're making the argument that independents are uniquely useless.

The relatively high level of independents in the Irish system (and this has been noted by political scientists) is actually a function of the severely centralised way power is wielded in our democracy. They are a symptom and not the problem.

Yep, Ive seen studies saying that Ireland is literally the most centralised political system in the EU. County Councillors have more or less no power here whereas in other countries their equivalents would have power over local schools, policing, hospitals, infrastructure and transport. Councils in other countries raise their funding locally through local property taxes which stay in the area and get spent in the area. Here they go into a central fund controlled by a centralised government and its basically political horse trading over what county council gets what, irrespective of how much had been paid in. The main thing is that the Cabinet hold all the funding centrally and can spend it in such a way that it gives the government party TDs a good chance of re-election.

I think sadder than independents of this world - who on occasion get big wins for their constituency by holding the balance of power and make noise in the chamber - is the career backbencher in a major party. These people are consigned to a life of constituency work and will likely never contribute anything to national good beyond that.

That's our system, and like so much about life in Ireland, are hostile to it being changed, and worse still, think it can't be changed.

Yeah it is pretty sad that our system creates a cohort of TDs who literally show up to the parliament Tuesday to Thursday to push buttons as instructed by a Chief Whip. Even if they genuinely disagree with policy they are forced to vote for it or face the consequences. They dont get to debate or the opportunity to even talk, in the Dail or in the media or otherwise. The whip system prevents them from holding Cabinet decisions to account in public so they become relegated to the role of miniature flag wavers on the backbenches for the party . They remain silent in the Dail for decades, they are prevented from contributing on issues of national importance and are basically a waste of space and taxpayers money.

Contrast that to the UK where the MPs of the governing party question (shock, horror!) their own party leader every Wednesday at 12pm in the Commons and then again later on TV and to the print media. Parties over there tend to have two or three factions and the Prime Minister of the day isnt just held to account by the opposition, MPs in his own party will also be fulfilling this role. The transparency and political accountability they have is a world apart compared to what we have here.Leaders questions in the Commons consists of hundreds of MPs holding the Cabinet to account, here you would be lucky if there are more than 10 TDs in the chamber, largely because its a pointless exercise structured in such a way as to avoid political accountability altogether.

Shefwedfan

SlowBlowin wrote: »

Maybe, as I was saying earlier, because they are so disillusioned with the established political parties, they choose someone local.

That would account for one years voting, like example of PBP. They got in, done nothing and majority got kicked out

The Healy Rae have done nothing for a few votes now and still get in, that’s the bit people are questioning and yet to receive any answer

SlowBlowin

Muahahaha wrote: »

Yep, Ive seen studies saying that Ireland is literally the most centralised political system in the EU.

Yeah it is pretty sad that our system creates a cohort of TDs who literally show up to the parliament Tuesday to Thursday to push buttons as instructed by a Chief Whip. Even if they genuinely disagree with policy they are forced to vote for it or face the consequences. They dont get to debate or the opportunity to even talk, in the Dail or in the media or otherwise. The whip system prevents them from holding Cabinet decisions to account in public so they become relegated to the role of miniature flag wavers on the backbenches for the party .

Is there scope for a new party to emerge from current batch of interdependents, is there any common ground or will the party system continue to fragment ?

Rows Grower

Quackster wrote: »

So the political system is broken.

That still doesn't explain why thousands of, presumably, compos mentis individuals willingly choose to vote for a bunch of absolute leeches.

I don't get why you think you know more about the Healy Raes than the tens of thousands of Kerry people who consistently vote for them.

You're a regular contributor to this thread but apart from the personal attacks on the integrity of the Healy Raes you offer nothing else. I asked you before who you think is a better alternative to vote for and you declined to answer.

The truth is it's very easy to assume a negative stance on any issue when you are too weak or afraid of honest debate to nail your own colours to the mast.

Rows Grower

SlowBlowin wrote: »

Is there scope for a new party to emerge from current batch of interdependents, is there any common ground or will the party system continue to fragment ?

I'm not sure that there is a place for a party made up of various independents. I think the essence of successful independents is they are willing to fight and be a voice at national level for nothing but local issues. If they were to officially band together they might lose that unique aspect that counts for a lot of votes.

The Healy Raes have inspired a lot of independent candidates, and their actions and ethos has inspired people nationwide to vote for their own independent candidates. Some people might not admit it but it is true, anytime I travel around Ireland and chat with locals one of the most common comments I get after I tell them where I'm from is "Oh you're in Healy Rae country, we could do with a TD like them around here".

There's an old saying that all politics is local and it's very true. Look at Coveney and Martin barely scraping in on the fifth and sixth count for evidence.

Young people are becoming more politically aware than previous generations, this habit of voting for who your parents voted for is losing traction and it will affect the two previously biggest parties the most in elections to come.

If they fail to form a government in the next few weeks and continue to childishly try to smear Sinn Fein at every opportunity they will pay an even bigger price at the next election when Sinn Fein will run more candidates and win more seats.

Shefwedfan

What is the Healy Rae ethos?

SlowBlowin

Rows Grower wrote: »

I'm not sure that there is a place for a party made up of various independents. I think the essence of successful independents is they are willing to fight and be a voice at national level for nothing but local issues. If they were to officially band together they might lose that unique aspect that counts for a lot of votes.

The Healy Raes have inspired a lot of independent candidates, and their actions and ethos has inspired people nationwide to vote for their own independent candidates. Some people might not admit it but it is true, anytime I travel around Ireland and chat with locals one of the most common comments I get after I tell them where I'm from is "Oh you're in Healy Rae country, we could do with a TD like them around here".

There's an old saying that all politics is local and it's very true. Look at Coveney and Martin barely scraping in on the fifth and sixth count for evidence.

Young people are becoming more politically aware than previous generations, this habit of voting for who your parents voted for is losing traction and it will affect the two previously biggest parties the most in elections to come.

If they fail to form a government in the next few weeks and continue to childishly try to smear Sinn Fein at every opportunity they will pay an even bigger price at the next election when Sinn Fein will run more candidates and win more seats.

I pretty much agree.

I do think there there might be a benefit to some sort on interdependent alliance, and where common ground on national matters between multiple independents (and their constituents) exists, it should be voiced collectively to add volume.

TaurenDruid

Shefwedfan wrote: »

What is the Healy Rae ethos?

"The family(*) comes first.

Get re-elected. Get more of us blooded on the council so we can keep the dynasty going.

Then do everything we can to profit from that. Give people what they've already paid for with their own money - but claim the credit. Get the council contracts.

Use the Dáil where we can to block or delay anything that might interfere with profit - things like the reduced drink driving limits."

(*) The Healy-Rae extended family, specifically.

Rows Grower

SlowBlowin wrote: »

I pretty much agree.

I do think there there might be a benefit to some sort on interdependent alliance, and where common ground on national matters between multiple independents (and their constituents) exists, it should be voiced collectively to add volume.

Yes definitely an alliance would work for all independents and the people who voted for them.

Quackster

Rows Grower wrote: »

I don't get why you think you know more about the Healy Raes than the tens of thousands of Kerry people who consistently vote for them.

You're a regular contributor to this thread but apart from the personal attacks on the integrity of the Healy Raes you offer nothing else. I asked you before who you think is a better alternative to vote for and you declined to answer.

The truth is it's very easy to assume a negative stance on any issue when you are too weak or afraid of honest debate to nail your own colours to the mast.

I know only what everybody else knows about them from facts in the public domain, unless there's something I'm missing..?? And what I do know would lead me to believe that, yes, they lack integrity.

I've no strong affiliation for any other particular candidate who ran in the election and I am not aware of any information that would lead me to question the integrities of the candidates that stood for FF, FG, SF and GP.

Rows Grower

Quackster wrote: »

I know only what everybody else knows about them from facts in the public domain, unless there's something I'm missing..?? And what I do know would lead me to believe that, yes, they lack integrity.

I've no strong affiliation for any other particular candidate who ran in the election and I am not aware of any information that would lead me to question the integrities of the candidates that stood for FF, FG, SF and GP.

Logic would dictate that there is a lot you are missing.

SlowBlowin

Rows Grower wrote: »

Logic would dictate that there is a lot you are missing.

To be fair this is a normal human trait.

If we are honest with ourselves, how often have we heard about someone, formed a poor opinion, then when we have met them and got to know them totally changed our minds ? This has happened to me many times in my life, moving to a new area, someone gives me a bad overview of someone, I meet them and the totally opposite..

I don't see why this doesn't apply to TDs, probably more so, we read click bait journalism, form an opinion, but unless we meet them we don't really know.

Seems that the people who meet MHR generally like MHR, the rest generally dont.

Rows Grower

SlowBlowin wrote: »

To be fair this is a normal human trait.

If we are honest with ourselves, how often have we heard about someone, formed a poor opinion, then when we have met them and got to know them totally changed our minds ? This has happened to me many times in my life, moving to a new area, someone gives me a bad overview of someone, I meet them and the totally opposite..

I don't see why this doesn't apply to TDs, probably more so, we read click bait journalism, form an opinion, but unless we meet them we don't really know.

Seems that the people who meet MHR generally like MHR, the rest generally dont.

I wouldn't agree that it's a normal human trait to be honest, but then again I'm probably more open minded and assertive in real life than I am on here.

In real life I'd never let anyone get away with warning me about someone they don't like before I have actually met the person myself. I'd usually say they might have been having an off day that time, or shur who knows what was going on in their life at that particular time or look shur we all make mistakes.

Now if I meet the person and do find them to be as the person described then I'd make it my business to get back to them and remind them of the warning they gave me and tell them how right they were. I'd also add that I had to find out for myself, and I never let anyone else's experience influence my opinion of someone before I'd met them.

I do agree that the low standard of click bait journalism does sway the opinion of a lot of people but what surprises me is how some seemingly intelligent people can ignore the bare faced facts in front of them and cast insults at tens of thousands of Kerry people because of what can only be a superiority complex.

It's easy to be a keyboard warrior or a hurler on the ditch on boards.ie and even easier on other websites for that matter, but in my opinion the important thing is to not let these people get away with it without at least calling them out and letting them be aware they are not as smart as they think they are and they are not getting away with it scott free.

I totally agree with you that anyone who hasn't met MHR and had a conversation with him is in no position to judge him and I know dozens upon dozens of people who have met him maybe only once and changed their previous negative opinion of him.

What amazes me most about him is his ability to remember people he has only met once before, not only their names but the casual conversation they previously had.

If the conversation was about some concern the person had in relation to anything he could possibly help with there is always a follow up letter or phone call usually with a positive result and often the people are taken totally by surprise thinking the conversation was casual and he didn't take notes.

I personally and a lot of people I know were never once given false hope from him or any of the family on any issue enquired about. He and his family genuinely like to help people and that's good enough for me.

TaurenDruid

Rows Grower wrote: »

I totally agree with you that anyone who hasn't met MHR and had a conversation with him is in no position to judge him and I know dozens upon dozens of people who have met him maybe only once and changed their previous negative opinion of him.

Bollocks. We can judge him on what's on the public record, his voting record, his statements to the media, his SIPO returns, and so on.

Nobody he's saying he's not personable, probably great craic altogether and a great friend to his friends and family. None of that excuses anything else, though.

What amazes me most about him is his ability to remember people he has only met once before, not only their names but the casual conversation they previously had.

That's an amazing talent and I've come across it in a few politicians. I'd a casual conversation with one that I'd never met before at an event, and two hours later as he was leaving, and after he'd spoken to literally a couple of hundred other people, he shook my hand, remembered my name, and brought up something we'd been talking about. Wish I had that skill!

Rows Grower

TaurenDruid wrote: »

Bollocks. We can judge him on what's on the public record, his voting record, his statements to the media, his SIPO returns, and so on.

Nobody he's saying he's not personable, probably great craic altogether and a great friend to his friends and family. None of that excuses anything else, though.



That's an amazing talent and I've come across it in a few politicians. I'd a casual conversation with one that I'd never met before at an event, and two hours later as he was leaving, and after he'd spoken to literally a couple of hundred other people, he shook my hand, remembered my name, and brought up something we'd been talking about. Wish I had that skill!

I'm talking about weeks, maybe months later.

Shefwedfan

Rows Grower wrote: »

What amazes me most about him is his ability to remember people he has only met once before, not only their names but the casual conversation they previously had.

Thats the trait that amazes you?


Any county you go to is full of people who have lived their entire life in the place and will know every single person in the area, children, parents etc and remember names.

Thelonious Monk

I have met both in the past and used to deal with them on the phone a lot. Very polite and nice I have to say, especially compared to some of their Oireachtas colleagues, although there seemed to be so many of them and they all sounded the same in their constituency office.
It doesn't take away from the fact that they seem to want to promote things that are bad for the country and heading in the wrong direction, their politics are bad news.

Quackster

Rows Grower wrote: »

Logic would dictate that there is a lot you are missing.

Well if you are party to information not in the public domain that would change all of our perceptions of the Healy Rae clan, then please fill us in!!

Rows Grower

Quackster wrote: »

Well if you are party to information not in the public domain that would change all of our perceptions of the Healy Rae clan, then please fill us in!!

Just ask anyone you know from Kerry that voted in the last election.

It shouldn't take long as one in three people voted Healy Rae number 1.

salmocab

Rows Grower wrote: »

Just ask anyone you know from Kerry that voted in the last election.

It shouldn't take long as one in three people voted Healy Rae number 1.

To be fair he asked you, you give out about people posting what you don’t agree with but you do nothing but post disingenuously.

Rows Grower

salmocab wrote: »

To be fair he asked you, you give out about people posting what you don’t agree with but you do nothing but post disingenuously.

Don't be a silly billy.

Shefwedfan

salmocab wrote: »

To be fair he asked you, you give out about people posting what you don’t agree with but you do nothing but post disingenuously.

You can't ask questions and expect an answer....

Bellview

Any thoughts on Danny contribution in the dail regarding China. Has he apologised or is it still his point of view. Disappointed to see a TD make a comment like this let’s hope reflection he CB pulls back this statement

Shefwedfan

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/oireachtas/danny-healy-rae-claims-ppe-bought-from-china-was-given-by-italy-1.4242047?mode=amp

I see the gob**** missed been in the news, really they should be talking to Gemma about how to make idiots of themselves

Did one of two of them actually go to the Dail? Can’t get them up any other time of the year

jmayo

Shefwedfan wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/oireachtas/danny-healy-rae-claims-ppe-bought-from-china-was-given-by-italy-1.4242047?mode=amp

I see the gob**** missed been in the news, really they should be talking to Gemma about how to make idiots of themselves

Did one of two of them actually go to the Dail? Can’t get them up any other time of the year

Well the first part of the article points to fact Danny says he thinks there should be international investigation into how covid started in China.
Don't see anything at all wrong with that.

Rest of article behind paywall and refuse to now pay a cent towards that shyte paper due to the absolute boll**** they now push as articles.
So maybe in the rest of article he jumps to his usual conspiracy and anti-science stuff?


BTW once again he is the only one that is touching certain topics that the powers that be and politicians in general will not dare touch.
Usually for fear of the consensus in the media.

I am talking about the disgraceful decision to use the current crisis to dump asylum seekers in a new DP centre in Cahersiveen and introduce covid 19 into the community.

Funny how the local community talked to the shinner representative, but they initially seem to be pretty quite on the topic unlike the aforementioned Danny.

Of course now they all want to help the poor asylum seekers who have ended up being imprisoned in the hotel, but they were damn meek when it was only the natives being inconvenienced.

Edgware

jmayo wrote: »

Well the first part of the article points to fact Danny says he thinks there should be international investigation into how covid started in China.
Don't see anything at all wrong with that.

Rest of article behind paywall and refuse to now pay a cent towards that shyte paper due to the absolute boll**** they now push as articles.
So maybe in the rest of article he jumps to his usual conspiracy and anti-science stuff?


BTW once again he is the only one that is touching certain topics that the powers that be and politicians in general will not dare touch.
Usually for fear of the consensus in the media.

I am talking about the disgraceful decision to use the current crisis to dump asylum seekers in a new DP centre in Cahersiveen and introduce covid 19 into the community.

Funny how the local community talked to the shinner representative, but they initially seem to be pretty quite on the topic unlike the aforementioned Danny.

Of course now they all want to help the poor asylum seekers who have ended up being imprisoned in the hotel, but they were damn meek when it was only the natives being inconvenienced.

The Asylum seekers are the only ones who will fill the hotel rooms for the near future and that money is as good as anyone elses

jmayo

Edgware wrote: »

The Asylum seekers are the only ones who will fill the hotel rooms for the near future and that money is as good as anyone elses

Ehh that money is the taxpayers money.

Myself, and well not sure if you are taxpayer or not, and every other taxpayer are paying for the privledge of housing people who in the vast vast majority of cases should not be here in the first place.
And in the process we make certain hoteliers and other private entities (legal professionals especially and NGOs, quangoes) reasonably well off in the process.

Edgware

jmayo wrote: »

Ehh that money is the taxpayers money.

Myself, and well not sure if you are taxpayer or not, and every other taxpayer are paying for the privledge of housing people who in the vast vast majority of cases should not be here in the first place.
And in the process we make certain hoteliers and other private entities (legal professionals especially and NGOs, quangoes) reasonably well off in the process.

Tell it to Gemma

blinding

jmayo wrote: »

Ehh that money is the taxpayers money.

Myself, and well not sure if you are taxpayer or not, and every other taxpayer are paying for the privledge of housing people who in the vast vast majority of cases should not be here in the first place.
And in the process we make certain hoteliers and other private entities (legal professionals especially and NGOs, quangoes) reasonably well off in the process.

Excellent Post. The vast majority are bogus and the whole thing is just a Racket to rip off the Tax Payer ! !