losing permanent contract - rights to temporary contract in same school?

Cash_Q

Hi, our school has lost a teacher for the 2018/19 school year. I'm the last permanent teacher in so that's me out.

We are a special school and I'm Route 4 registered. I don't understand panels etc but I don't think I have any panel rights.

There are two career breaks approved for next year, am I entitled to either of these temporary contracts ahead of other interviewees?

paddybarry

Cash_Q wrote: »

Hi, our school has lost a teacher for the 2018/19 school year. I'm the last permanent teacher in so that's me out.

We are a special school and I'm Route 4 registered. I don't understand panels etc but I don't think I have any panel rights.

There are two career breaks approved for next year, am I entitled to either of these temporary contracts ahead of other interviewees?

Can't answer that but I'm sure your union will advise you.

Cash_Q

paddybarry wrote:

Can't answer that but I'm sure your union will advise you.

Thanks yeah, it's going to be a long 48 hours until I can contact them so hoping someone here had some info. 2 months into a 30 year mortgage and due a baby in October. Sh1t timing.

rainbowtrout

Cash_Q wrote: »

Hi, our school has lost a teacher for the 2018/19 school year. I'm the last permanent teacher in so that's me out.

We are a special school and I'm Route 4 registered. I don't understand panels etc but I don't think I have any panel rights.

There are two career breaks approved for next year, am I entitled to either of these temporary contracts ahead of other interviewees?

Cash_Q wrote: »

Thanks yeah, it's going to be a long 48 hours until I can contact them so hoping someone here had some info. 2 months into a 30 year mortgage and due a baby in October. Sh1t timing.

But if you are a permanent teacher you still have to be paid.

evolving_doors

rainbowtrout wrote: »

But if you are a permanent teacher you still have to be paid.

True, I know someone who was waiting a good few months to be redeployed after a special school closed. She got paid as normal the whole time, (that was 15 years ago and maybe particular to her case).

rainbowtrout

evolving_doors wrote: »

True, I know someone who was waiting a good few months to be redeployed after a special school closed. She got paid as normal the whole time, (that was 15 years ago and maybe particular to her case).

A teacher in my school was redeployed about 5 years ago despite not being the last in etc, and did 2 back to back maternity leaves but paid as a permanent teacher in another school in our ETB before she came back to us permanently 2 years later.

Cash_Q

rainbowtrout wrote:

But if you are a permanent teacher you still have to be paid.

Is there a circular or rule about this? What's to stop them just making me redundant?

I will be onto my union first chance I get tomorrow but I'm so stressed out in the meantime.

rainbowtrout

Cash_Q wrote: »

Is there a circular or rule about this? What's to stop them just making me redundant?

I will be onto my union first chance I get tomorrow but I'm so stressed out in the meantime.

Honestly, I don't mean to sound flippant, but when have you ever heard of a permanent teacher being made redundant? It doesn't happen. If you are a permanent teacher you will be redeployed to another school. Or possibly as you suggested, take up one of the career breaks in your current school.

A friend of mine lost her job a few years ago as she was on a year's contract and a local secondary school in her ETB shut down and all of those teachers had to be redeployed so wherever there were teachers on temporary contracts, they had to make way for permanent teachers. I know primary use the panel system, but essentially it's much the same thing.

Cash_Q

I don't know any other permanent teachers whose school lost teachers so I have no experience to draw on; I would have just presumed that the school losing a post results in redundancy.

This might sound flippant, but I'd rather see the department guidelines on this situation than take the word of people online. I don't mean to sound disrespectful and I do appreciate the replies but I am hoping someone can point me to something official rather than anecdotal.

As I said before, I am not sure what panel rights I have as a Route 4 registered teacher. I had always been told we have none, but maybe this is in terms of earning panel rights through temporary contracts etc as opposed to redeployment panels. I don't really understand the first thing about panels to be honest.

rainbowtrout

Cash_Q wrote: »

This might sound flippant, but I'd rather see the department guidelines on this situation than take the word of people online. I don't mean to sound disrespectful and I do appreciate the replies but I am hoping someone can point me to something official rather than anecdotal.

You're probably better off ringing the department then, instead of asking people online.

Thinkingaboutit

Not a teacher, but browsing circulars for another Dept employing me answered my question, and it was a negative for me on a pay issue, but hopefully better for you. Fill yer boots:

Dept of Education and Skills, active circulars

Cash_Q

rainbowtrout wrote:

You're probably better off ringing the department then, instead of asking people online.

I will be ringing my union the first chance I get but asking here in the hope someone had direct experience and could refer to a circular to give me some sense of reassurance.

Reading the allocation yesterday morning with a 48 hour wait until the union reopens to give advice has me understandably stressed out. I have a baby and mortgage to think of. After ten years of temporary contracts this is my first year permanent and it feels like I'm about to lose it.

afkasurfjunkie

Did the school not know they were going to lose a teacher a few months ago? Sna allocations came out on fri but teacher’s are out for a while now.

Cash_Q

afkasurfjunkie wrote:

Did the school not know they were going to lose a teacher a few months ago? Sna allocations came out on fri but teacher’s are out for a while now.

If they did they didn't tell staff.
Teacher and sna allocations announced for Special Schools. SNAs only for all other schools.

evolving_doors

Thinkingaboutit wrote: »

Not a teacher, but browsing circulars for another Dept employing me answered my question, and it was a negative for me on a pay issue, but hopefully better for you. Fill yer boots:

Dept of Education and Skills, active circulars

Thanks, It's a good idea to keep an eye on that page as circulars appear.

You'v actually answered another question in a previous thread on the new Irish prescribed material.

Cash_Q

Thinkingaboutit wrote:

Not a teacher, but browsing circulars for another Dept employing me answered my question, and it was a negative for me on a pay issue, but hopefully better for you. Fill yer boots:

Thanks but can't find anything relevant. I'll be outside the principal's office first thing tomorrow anyway.

rainbowtrout

Cash_Q wrote: »

Thanks but can't find anything relevant. I'll be outside the principal's office first thing tomorrow anyway.

A google search for primary teacher redeployment should give you all the information you need.

r93kaey5p2izun

I think the fact the OP is registered through Route 4 and not Route 1 Primary is the main concern here. General circulars on primary redeployment are not so clear cut here. I don't have any answers for you OP but understand it's not just a case of looking at what usually happens when primary schools lose a teacher. Fingers crossed for you. I hope you can get clarification asap.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=2ahUKEwiVyty4wJXbAhVCDuwKHTNUA4AQFjAAegQICRAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.education.ie%2Fen%2FSchools-Colleges%2FServices%2FTeacher-Allocations%2FTeacher-Allocation%2Fta_primary_faq_redeployment_arrangements_18_19.pdf&usg=AOvVaw3a09MCHtOKkQ7ZrLQ1Pfbx

But this document does refer to Route 4 registered teachers being redeployed on a Special National Panel - see parts 2.6 and 2.10.

rainbowtrout

Bryan Plump Codfish wrote: »

I think the fact the OP is registered through Route 4 and not Route 1 Primary is the main concern here. General circulars on primary redeployment are not so clear cut here. I don't have any answers for you OP but understand it's not just a case of looking at what usually happens when primary schools lose a teacher. Fingers crossed for you. I hope you can get clarification asap.

There's a 36 page document from the Dept of Ed that covers just about every situation imaginable, including special schools.

r93kaey5p2izun

rainbowtrout wrote: »

There's a 36 page document from the Dept of Ed that covers just about every situation imaginable, including special schools.

Yes I edited to include that while you were posting. But I understand the OP's concerns as it's not as common or widespread as a Route 1 teacher being redeployed so not many personal experiences out there. I'm sure we would all be anxious and confused in such a situation - terrible that such news is delivered like that on a Friday with no clarification on what happens next..

Cash_Q

Thank you Arlessienne for the understanding. It is a high anxious and stressful time.

Others might take for granted that permanent means you will always be paid and have a job but I've spent so long to get where I am I am not trusting of that. I also don't know anyone else who's been in the position so it doesn't feel as black and white as others are painting it here.

Cash_Q

rainbowtrout wrote:

There's a 36 page document from the Dept of Ed that covers just about every situation imaginable, including special schools.

Link?

I'm sorry but I don't think you'd be so self assured about this situation if it were you that were in it.

Cash_Q

Bryan Plump Codfish wrote:

But this document does refer to Route 4 registered teachers being redeployed on a Special National Panel - see parts 2.6 and 2.10.

Thanks. Link won't open.

r93kaey5p2izun

Cash_Q wrote: »

Thanks. Link won't open.

Google "Redeployment Arrangements at Primary Level for Surplus Permanent & CID Holding Teachers". It's a pdf from Feb 2018.

Cash_Q

Thanks Arliessenne I'll Google it now. Spoke to my CEC rep and rang the union HQ and neither can give direct reassurance that I am ringfenced due to being permanent. They simply cannot say so until they explore the full ins and outs, the two reasons being my Route 4 registration and the fact we are a special school.

evolving_doors

Cash_Q wrote: »

Thanks Arliessenne I'll Google it now. Spoke to my CEC rep and rang the union HQ and neither can give direct reassurance that I am ringfenced due to being permanent. They simply cannot say so until they explore the full ins and outs, the two reasons being my Route 4 registration and the fact we are a special school.

What's route 4 mean?

Cash_Q

evolving_doors wrote:

What's route 4 mean?

Route 4 is the category of registration with the Teaching Council for primary Teachers who trained abroad or who trained in Montessori colleges. Basically that we don't have Irish. Formerly know as 'Restricted Recognition'

afkasurfjunkie

Isn’t that why the special panel is in place? For these situations.

Cash_Q

afkasurfjunkie wrote:

Isn’t that why the special panel is in place? For these situations.

I still don't know and no-one in the union can advise me yet. I was always told i had no panel rights but maybe that was to do with accumulating panel rights when in temporary contracts rather than accessing redeployment panels.

Looking at the link that previous poster shared I appear to have been required to apply to be placed on the panel back in February. I and my principal only learned of the loss of a teacher on the weekend.

I am just exhausted with stress and crying since i came home from work. I thought I was finally secure in a job I love in a school I love and now when I have a new mortgage and a baby on the way things just feel so uncertain. My husband earns nearly half what I do so there's no way we can manage on his wage alone.

I hoped it would be an easy answer for someone in the union to say my job is ring fenced but they can't tell me that much or give me any reassurance.

Millem

cashq I hope you are ok? This is a stress you just don’t need
I don’t know anything about about route 4 or special schools. My friend has been teaching in a secondary school that has been over quota for the last few years anyway they didn’t lose a teacher as the career breaks were just absorbed amongst the staff. She is not the last one in but will be the one redployed as it is based on the needs of school (certain subjects). The same thing happens in my own school.
Has your principal given any advice to you?

evolving_doors

You're doing all you can Cash_Q and trying to get as much info as possible. We've been down to the wire ourselves with mortgage due and unemployment on the cards, Something will crop up.

I sense you might have been expecting to get a clear cut answer with the union which I doubt they'd give without digging out a few cases like yours first. Keep on to them anyway, all you need is to find an old case with similar circumstances as yourself and then you have a precedent. As you can see on here, it's not so straightforward.