New M50 toll cameras

3putt

Sorry if this has been posted already but couldn't find any details on it when searching.

Has anyone else noticed that theres new toll cameras between the red cow and Lucan.

Anyone know when their going to start charging?

verycool

Thread also started here, https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=107012147

Tried doing a search too, but there's nothing mentioned on the site!

http://m50concession.com/tolling/

Tzardine

From February

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/m50-drivers-facing-more-toll-points-in-bid-to-tackle-traffic-congestion-36592474.html

az2wp0sye65487

I found the following from a Google search:

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/preparations-under-way-for-potential-toll-points-on-m50-827658.html

Preparations are being made for potential toll points along the M50 in Dublin.

However, Transport Infrastructure Ireland insists there are no imminent plans to charge drivers.

It is advertising for companies that would operate the system if the government ever went ahead with it.

But The AA's Conor Faughnan says extra tolls will not solve the M50's chronic traffic congestion.

He said: "It might be attractive if you want to hoover up toll money, it might also be attractive if you think this is the way to keep the M50 moving, drive traffic off of it so the little that is left can move more freely.

"But the issue is, what do you do with that displaced traffic and if all you're doing is forcing it into the suburbs then you're not actually doing the city any favours."

Tzardine

TII Mentality:

May 2018 - We will put the extra toll points up just in case we need them in the future.

June 2018 - Sure we have them extra toll points put up. We might as well use them.

May 2019 - We should put up some extra toll points just in case we need them in the future.

.........

wexie

I really don't understand this short sighted and narrow minded thinking.

The traffic volume is there, it's not going to go away unless there's another big economic crash or until public transport becomes a viable option for many of the people on the M50 on a daily basis. Do they really think people are on the M50 for shits and giggles?

Kintarō Hattori

So in theory you could be charged twice on the same trip for using the M50?

wexie

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

So in theory you could be charged twice on the same trip for using the M50?

I would imagine (or hope at least) that it will then end up being x% here and x% there.

Been proposed a good few times I think where the tolls becomes consistent which how much of the road you actually use. Rather than getting the full whack just because you happen to pass by a certain point.

blackwhite

wexie wrote: »

I really don't understand this short sighted and narrow minded thinking.

The traffic volume is there, it's not going to go away unless there's another big economic crash or until public transport becomes a viable option for many of the people on the M50 on a daily basis. Do they really think people are on the M50 for shits and giggles?

I'm guessing it's to try and reduce the people using it to travel just one or two junctions, to try and free it up a bit for those travelling most of the way around it.

Travelling from Dundrum to Tallaght, for example, the M50 is approx 5 min faster than going across through Rathfarnham. If there's a charge for using the M50, then a lot of people will take the slightly longer route.

emo72

Where are the alternative routes? Lucan bridge is a standstill most of the day? Is tolling to convince us to use non existent alternative routes? It's bullkrap lads.

wexie

blackwhite wrote: »

I'm guessing it's to try and reduce the people using it to travel just one or two junctions, to try and free it up a bit for those travelling most of the way around it.

Travelling from Dundrum to Tallaght, for example, the M50 is approx 5 min faster than going across through Rathfarnham. If there's a charge for using the M50, then a lot of people will take the slightly longer route.

but....but....

that's not really going to help anything though is it? Even if only a few 100 cars start doing that at rush hour every morning all of a sudden the difference between using or not using the M50 will shoot up to 10 minutes, if not more.
Not to mention the impact it will have on all the people between Tallaght and Dundrum that had no intention or need for going on the M50 and are now suddenly stuck in traffic that wasn't there before.

My point was that (I think) they should be looking at reducing the numbers of cars on the road in and around Dublin, rather than looking to shift those cars off the M50.

Build safe cycle paths, improve public transport, encourage companies to relocate outside of the city, encourage homeworking/telecommuting and all that jazz.

EDIT : I guess really it depends on what the end goal is, if it's to relieve congestion on the M50 then it could have some impact. If the endgoal is to just improve the traffic situation in Dublin in general then it's not going to do anything at all

az2wp0sye65487

wexie wrote: »

I would imagine (or hope at least) that it will then end up being x% here and x% there.

Been proposed a good few times I think where the tolls becomes consistent which how much of the road you actually use. Rather than getting the full whack just because you happen to pass by a certain point.

If that's the case it seems a lot more fair. Depending on what the rate per km, or junction passed etc., is.....

I go through the toll twice each day, and I actually only pass 3 junctions. So:

€2.10 per trip
X 2 times per day = €4.20
X 5 days = €21
X 48 weeks = €1,008 per year.

I'd welcome multiple tolls providing the rate is averaged out over the distance traveled or some fairer way of charging.

For example you could travel from J16 Cherrywood to J7 Lucan - approx 23km (passing 8 exits ) with no toll, but from J6 Blanch to J7 Lucan - approx 3.5km (1 exit) costs €2.10.

rizzee

^^^ And that's only €2.10 if you have a tag!

blackwhite

wexie wrote: »

but....but....

that's not really going to help anything though is it? Even if only a few 100 cars start doing that at rush hour every morning all of a sudden the difference between using or not using the M50 will shoot up to 10 minutes, if not more.
Not to mention the impact it will have on all the people between Tallaght and Dundrum that had no intention or need for going on the M50 and are now suddenly stuck in traffic that wasn't there before.

My point was that (I think) they should be looking at reducing the numbers of cars on the road in and around Dublin, rather than looking to shift those cars off the M50.

Build safe cycle paths, improve public transport, encourage companies to relocate outside of the city, encourage homeworking/telecommuting and all that jazz.

EDIT : I guess really it depends on what the end goal is, if it's to relieve congestion on the M50 then it could have some impact. If the endgoal is to just improve the traffic situation in Dublin in general then it's not going to do anything at all

I’d guess the focus is on the M50 - not Dublin city traffic. The M50 was intended as a way to allow traffic avoid Dublin City altogether, not as a route to connect parts of Dublin (which is what it has evolved into).

blackwhite

Crystal Famous Dimple wrote: »

If that's the case it seems a lot more fair. Depending on what the rate per km, or junction passed etc., is.....

I go through the toll twice each day, and I actually only pass 3 junctions. So:

€2.10 per trip
X 2 times per day = €4.20
X 5 days = €21
X 48 weeks = €1,008 per year.

I'd welcome multiple tolls providing the rate is averaged out over the distance traveled or some fairer way of charging.

For example you could travel from J16 Cherrywood to J7 Lucan - approx 23km (passing 8 exits ) with no toll, but from J6 Blanch to J7 Lucan - approx 3.5km (1 exit) costs €2.10.

I'd guess that the eventual aim is to try to make it much less attractive to do the short journeys compared to long journeys. Eventually toll cameras at each exit, and a charge calculated based on the distance travelled.
Something like a min charge of €1.50 regardless, plus 10c per exit passed (or likely much more expensive than that).

Hurrache

emo72 wrote: »

Where are the alternative routes? Lucan bridge is a standstill most of the day? Is tolling to convince us to use non existent alternative routes? It's bullkrap lads.

You can travel from the M11 to the N4 without charge, but the N4 to the N3 and pay it. Graduated charges aren't aimed at those making that journey as they already pay.

az2wp0sye65487

blackwhite wrote: »

I'd guess that the eventual aim is to try to make it much less attractive to do the short journeys compared to long journeys. Eventually toll cameras at each exit, and a charge calculated based on the distance travelled.
Something like a min charge of €1.50 regardless, plus 10c per exit passed (or likely much more expensive than that).

The short journey is an essential route for me for work, unfortunately. I have tried alternatives in the past - but at rush hour I'd be adding another 30 - 45 mins on to my travel time each way to try avoid the toll.

As I said I'd welcome a system where the toll is calculated based on the distance traveled or something - provided it's less than I currently have to pay! :pac:

wexie

blackwhite wrote: »

I’d guess the focus is on the M50 - not Dublin city traffic. The M50 was intended as a way to allow traffic avoid Dublin City altogether, not as a route to connect parts of Dublin (which is what it has evolved into).

So basically the thinking is : Gee the M50 is in an awful state, we need to do something, even if it means fucking up traffic in the rest of the city...

Yay

(not saying btw that they don't need to do something, just disagree on the what)

ION08

Cause of congestion is lack of driving etiquette and the halfwits crashing into each other every second day causing massive tailback and delays.

Nothing that you can solve with Tolls.

We need proper driver education and Garda patrol enforcing proper lane discipline.

Del2005

There should be be no tolls on the M50. The original toll was to pay for the bridge and that's been well covered. The issue is that just looking at the M50 and putting tolls on it doesn't solve the problem that public transport is not fit for purpose, look what happened with the Luas cross city when the new trams failed. If you toll the rest of the M50 the local roads will become jammed with traffic and the motorway empty, just look at the traffic on the toll motorway vs the road it supposedly replaced,

As for the journey from Dundrum to Tallaght it may be quicker, now, but you are travelling through residential areas with several schools and shopping centres. It's a much more dangerous route than the M50 so we'd just be moving the gridlock to a riskier location if we toll the M50. I don't think that the businesses in Rathfarnham or Terenure will be happy having no customers because the roads are too busy

blackwhite

wexie wrote: »

So basically the thinking is : Gee the M50 is in an awful state, we need to do something, even if it means fucking up traffic in the rest of the city...

Yay

(not saying btw that they don't need to do something, just disagree on the what)

That's pretty much the impact of how they are doing it. They never seem to think more than 5 years ahead with it.

When it was being built, or even at the time of the 3-lane extension planning, an orbital light rail or similar should have been included alongside or above the MW. Have spurs running into the city centre alongside the main arterial routes in (only need to have them along the N1, N3, N4 and N11, plus links to Luas at Red Cow and Leopardstown).
Then exterior spurs from the arterial route linking to the main suburbs and out along the main routes that approach the M50.
Park and rides along those exterior spurs for commuters, and suddenly you've improved both the M50 traffic and the city centre as well.

I doubt we'd ever get a Govt willing to commit to the level of funding needed for it - but we can always dream :P

Alkers

3putt wrote: »

Sorry if this has been posted already but couldn't find any details on it when searching.

Has anyone else noticed that theres new toll cameras between the red cow and Lucan.

Anyone know when their going to start charging?

I don't think these are toll cameras. Will try spot them on the way home.

Alkers

Del2005 wrote: »

There should be be no tolls on the M50.

Varying the tolls at different times of day would serve to spread out the peak-time traffic, evening out the utilisation of the M50. For most of the time, outside of the peak periods, the M50 deals fine with the number of vehicles.

ION08

ION08 wrote: »

Cause of congestion is lack of driving etiquette and the halfwits crashing into each other every second day causing massive tailback and delays.

Nothing that you can solve with Tolls.

We need proper driver education and Garda patrol enforcing proper lane discipline.

Oh look... another 4 car pile up on the M50 1 hour ago!!!

10 car pile up ealier this morning!!!!

ABSOLUTE DOPEY FECKING GOB****ES!!!

This is the problem that needs fixing not more toll cameras :rolleyes:

tcawley29

ION08 wrote: »

Oh look... another 4 car pile up on the M50 1 hour ago!!!

10 car pile up ealier this morning!!!!

ABSOLUTE DOPEY FECKING GOB****ES!!!

This is the problem that needs fixing not more toll cameras :rolleyes:

Putting a higher barrier between left and right would go a long way here.
Something happens on one side and every knobhead in the country slows down to stare across the barrier and see what it was

wexie

tcawley29 wrote: »

Something happens on one side and every knobhead in the country slows down to stare across the barrier and see what it was

and why? Seriously for the love of all that is good and holy why?

studdlymurphy

If it happens they should half the other m50 toll

Eric Cartman

wexie wrote: »

and why? Seriously for the love of all that is good and holy why?

no idea. I was behind a woman in a corsa last week who stopped dead in the right hand lane southbound before blanchardstown to have a gawk at a 3 car smash on the other side. the median needs to be raised by 4ft along the entire length of the m50 to stop onlookers

that and we need motorway screens like this to be deployed first thing in accidents :

mikeecho

Eric Cartman wrote: »

no idea. I was behind a woman in a corsa last week who stopped dead in the right hand lane southbound before blanchardstown to have a gawk at a 3 car smash on the other side. the median needs to be raised by 4ft along the entire length of the m50 to stop onlookers

that and we need motorway screens like this to be deployed first thing in accidents :

I've been driving around Germany for the past week.. and rubber neckers are just the same here.
35min delay, due to a minor tip on the opposite carriageway .. and that wasn't just the once. It's a regular thing.

... and the slip roads.. ... they'll test your braking when coming off the road, and will blow the soot from your exhaust when joining a road.. they are rediculasly short.

Overall.. road surface is fantastic.. but no hard shoulders.
If you're stuck behind a truck... you're stuck


And speed cams... everywhere... everywhere

Ms echo was caught day one by a poliscan.. I've managed to avoid them all since then.

But speed cams are everywhere.

Atlantic Dawn

These clowns making the rules haven't a clue how the ordinary worker gets to and from work, they drive in to the Dáil with generous unvouched daily mileage expenses outside of rush hour to their free parking space. This solution to price drivers off the stretch of road is like handling a food shortage by increasing the price of food to reduce demand.

Del2005

Simona1986 wrote: »

Varying the tolls at different times of day would serve to spread out the peak-time traffic, evening out the utilisation of the M50. For most of the time, outside of the peak periods, the M50 deals fine with the number of vehicles.

The peak traffic is because people need to travel to work at the same time. Until the government force companies to alter their start times varying tolls will only penalise people more.

The way people are going on you'd think that people are sitting in traffic on the M50 for fun not trying to get to work.

3putt

Simona1986 wrote: »

I don't think these are toll cameras. Will try spot them on the way home.

There definitely toll cameras

Rechuchote

The problem is all the single-occupier cars. If there were huge, cheap high-rise car parks around the M50 and proper public transport, 90% of drivers could drive in, park the car and get a tram or bus or train to work, maybe with some bikeshare input, and the city would work far better.

We also need to start using carpooling - we need to use our roads more intelligently.

Isambard

Rechuchote wrote: »

The problem is all the single-occupier cars. If there were huge, cheap high-rise car parks around the M50 and proper public transport, 90% of drivers could drive in, park the car and get a tram or bus or train to work, maybe with some bikeshare input, and the city would work far better.

We also need to start using carpooling - we need to use our roads more intelligently.

the problem there, is how many tram routes would you need to serve the multiple destinations that the car currently serves? Most people don't work in the City Centre or on the main routes in from the M50

Rechuchote

Isambard wrote: »

the problem there, is how many tram routes would you need to serve the multiple destinations that the car currently serves? Most people don't work in the City Centre or on the main routes in from the M50

Wouldn't all have to be trams, but. Core Bus Corridors (non-stop, cars forbidden) are in the traffic plan, and would zoom people into and through the city, and then the Dublin Bikes and the new dockless bikes about to come onstream would cover the last kilometre.

We're only trotting behind civilised countries: Paris is mooting totally free public transport… https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2018/05/paris-ponders-an-audacious-idea-free-transit-for-all/560522/

Dravokivich

Rechuchote wrote: »

The problem is all the single-occupier cars. If there were huge, cheap high-rise car parks around the M50 and proper public transport, 90% of drivers could drive in, park the car and get a tram or bus or train to work, maybe with some bikeshare input, and the city would work far better.

We also need to start using carpooling - we need to use our roads more intelligently.

I don't work in the city. And need to use it at least 6 times a week. I'd have to use the m50 to get to one of those drop off points, that you want, to take me off the m50.

ION08

....and another crash on the M50 northbound just after exit 7. This is just madness!!! Its a daily occurrence!

Will anything be done to address this before introducing more tolls to apparently “ease congestion” :mad:

wexie

ION08 wrote: »

....and another crash on the M50 northbound just after exit 7. This is just madness!!! Its a daily occurrence!

Will anything be done to address this before introducing more tolls yo apparently “ease congestion” :mad:

Yeah maybe it's my imagination but certainly whenever I'm on it it seems some more enforcement wouldn't go amiss. Some really bloody awful driving to be seen

Francie Barrett

Which parts of the M50 are they proposing to add extra toll barriers to?

khaldrogo

blackwhite wrote:

Travelling from Dundrum to Tallaght, for example, the M50 is approx 5 min faster than going across through Rathfarnham. If there's a charge for using the M50, then a lot of people will take the slightly longer route.

And then you will have congestion on smaller roads less able to deal with it

salmocab

It’s a pain for people who only travel one or two exits to pay right now but putting additional points in even if it means paying less per segment but the same overall means that suddenly a whole pile of people are paying for a journey they’ve been making for years for free, that’s not going to go down at all well. The only realistic solution is giving people an alternative which realistically can only be providing public transport. At current rates of building that means we only have to wait 30 years before this gets sorted.

Tabnabs

We are probably one of the last countries in Europe to build motorways and it's hardly necessary to reinvent the wheel in terms of road safety and traffic congestion.

The safe distance markings that are used in the UK would be a good start to deter the fender benders.



Seeing a traffic corp car on patrol would also do a lot to put manners on people.

wexie

Tabnabs wrote: »

We are probably one of the last countries in Europe to build motorways and it's hardly necessary to reinvent the wheel in terms of road safety and traffic congestion.

I find it astonishing to see that a lot of the innovations (such as the safe distance markers) just seem to be completely ignored on our roads.

Kinda like they are indeed trying to reinvent the wheel

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

tcawley29

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Thats what happens when you live in a country where they gave out driving licenses without having to do a test. Clowns

testicles

This post has been deleted.

BIGT4464

The M50 should be 50 cents per junction, capped at 3 euro . Every car should have a tag

ION08

BIGT4464 wrote: »

The M50 should be 50 cents per junction, capped at 3 euro . Every car should have a tag

Should it? Oh, ok then. :rolleyes:

Francie Barrett

Tabnabs wrote: »

Seeing a traffic corp car on patrol would also do a lot to put manners on people.

Gardai seem active enough on the road, doesn't seem to deter bad behaviour at all.

SteM

tcawley29 wrote: »

Thats what happens when you live in a country where they gave out driving licenses without having to do a test. Clowns

The last amnesty was in '79. I doubt there are many people with this license driving on the m50 on a daily basis. Would certainly be a very small percentage imo.

Trasna1

ION08 wrote: »

Cause of congestion is lack of driving etiquette and the halfwits crashing into each other every second day causing massive tailback and delays.

Nothing that you can solve with Tolls.

We need proper driver education and Garda patrol enforcing proper lane discipline.

No it isn't. The cause of congestion is that there are too many cars trying to use the M50 at the same time.