M50 Second Toll

marno21

The idea that multipoint tolling will be used for revenue generation is drivel

It'll cost a fortune to run the multipoint tolling system, there are far cheaper ways to generate revenue

Demand management is quit easily managed by charging people even small amounts. And it works. You'd be amazed how much habit changing people can achieve when they're forced to cough up a few euros.

Kermit.de.frog

The answer. Double the lanes. Add new flyovers and upgrade side roads.








Demolish what needs demolishing.

All agreed?

Great.

Let's get it done.

Carawaystick

marno21 wrote: »

It'll cost a fortune to run the multipoint tolling system, there are far cheaper ways to generate revenue

It already costs a fortune for single point tolling, the toll co gets 28% or so

n!ghtmancometh

pad199207 wrote: »

Watch the N7 inbound back up from Long Mile Road so if they toll the M50 between Red Cow and Liffey Valley.

It's already backed up from the exit off M50 at N7 to Long Mile Road junction/Woodies as it is. I know because private traffic coming off M50 blocks the entrance to the (poorly designed, if at all designed) bus lane on my commute every morning. Another toll might actually discourage some of these (majority single occupant) vehicles from making journeys and using alternatives. Can't go on as it is for much longer anyway.

jim salter

Aontachtoir wrote: »

jim salter;107069359

I don't think we know that at all, Jim. Multipoint tolling is a legitimate way to discourage unnecessary use of the M50. If it brings in cash for infrastructure, all the better.

Really?

So this is about freeing up the M50 for those that need to travel further distances? Wake up will you. Pushing motorists off the M50 will cause the major traffic congestion to the surrounding areas and residential areas.

This is typical Irish mentality. Guess what Aontachtoir, the tolls were put in place to pay for the building of the M50 and once paid were supposed to be removed however, our gov't saw a cash cow (the same as the USC) and kept it going. Now the tolls are owned and operated by a French consortium.

If you believe the multi point tolls are about traffic management you are naive. The only way to improve the traffic management is with proper infrastructure and efficient public transport

JohnC.

Multipoint tolling is used in other countries. Yet you want to call it "Irish mentality" when Ireland is the country which doesn't have it?

OldMrBrennan83

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jimmynokia

it is a carpark this tolling idea would not sit well and for those in the transport industry will suffer with delays and choking up backroads etc, so for the point I seen earlier would not suit the clowns that ring up courier companies and ask where is my delivery it will have the opposite effect overall.

Aontachtoir

jim salter wrote: »

So this is about freeing up the M50 for those that need to travel further distances? Wake up will you. Pushing motorists off the M50 will cause the major traffic congestion to the surrounding areas and residential areas.

This is typical Irish mentality. Guess what Aontachtoir, the tolls were put in place to pay for the building of the M50 and once paid were supposed to be removed however, our gov't saw a cash cow (the same as the USC) and kept it going. Now the tolls are owned and operated by a French consortium.

If you believe the multi point tolls are about traffic management you are naive. The only way to improve the traffic management is with proper infrastructure and efficient public transport

Multipoint tolls contibute significantly to traffic management. If you have to pay a small fee per kilometre travelled on the M50 (perhaps capped for the benefit of traffic using the motorway as the Dublin bypass it was intended to be used, such as travelling from the N7 to the airport), casual use of the motorway will drop. Yes, some of that traffic will move onto other roads, but there is currently more capacity in Dublin's R- and L-roads than in the M50, which is grinding to a halt in front of our eyes. The traffic flow must be rebalanced while we work to reduce demand. 

I don't see the issue with the M50 tolling structure being owned by a French consortium. It certainly doesn't have any significant impact on traffic management issues.

The M50 is Ireland's busiest motorway, and needs help to keep moving. Multipoint tolling is part of a sensible solution, which also involves variable speed limits, capacity increases where possible, and significant investment in public transportation infrastructure. I don't see what is negative about an "Irish mentality" - aren't we all Irish?

Sam Russell

The structure of tolling would have massive effect on usage.

1. Single charge of say €3 no matter how many junctions. This will penalise short usage.

2. Charge per Km. This will just act as a deterrent to those who can easily be made by an alternative route avoiding the M50.

3. Tolls that are higher in busy times, such as is used on the Port Tunnel - say three time bands, off peak, shoulder, and peak.

4. A combination of the above.

Add in variable speed limits, coupled with average speed detection and you have a full set.

The devil is in the detail.

testicles

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Sam Russell

testicles wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

If they have average speed cameras, they have enough infrastructure for a barrier free tolling system.

I think the toll will be some time away though.

Stephen15

More tolls on M50 will mean more drivers avoiding it meaning more cars in the city centre and other smaller which is bad for public transport users.

Chris_5339762

I don't see any evidence of any speed camera work at Red Cow. They're resurfacing the whole area.

Visconti

I dont care if there is 20 tolls it goes against my expenses. If i could stop the arrogant looking ***** holding the middle and fast lanes and use the road properly I would be happy. I have driven all over Europe and America and the driving is worst over here. The heads on them with their pompous Im doing 80 face. Its called an overtaking lane for a reason. To overtake and move back in.

positron

I would be all in favour of multiple toll points along the length of M50 with some sort of grading system - first gate 1.50 euro, two gates 2.00 and four or more capped at 3 euro or something like that.

Most of the congestion and related incidents the moment is between Blanch and Tallagh junctions. I often wondered if there a way to widen that section of the M50 - say add two more lanes each way, and in a way to reserve the middle four lanes for thru traffic only (no entry from these junctions, exit only).

Amirani

Patww79 wrote: »

Other countries would have it priced accordingly. I couldn't see the strawberry beds one reducing in price when another opens.

Have you seen how expensive rolls are in France? Or many other places in Europe?

Amirani

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The answer. Double the lanes. Add new flyovers and upgrade side roads.
Demolish what needs demolishing.

All agreed?

Great.

Let's get it done.

Amazing how Los Angeles completely removed their traffic problems by doing exactly that.

CeilingFly

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

I don't see any evidence of any speed camera work at Red Cow. They're resurfacing the whole area.

No one has even mentioned speed cameras.

Its variable speed limit signage to indicate to motorists the new maximum speed applicable from that point when the signs are operating (peak times)

There may be average speed cameras installed too in conjunction with the signage to ensure compliance.

Considering that most accidents on m50 are caused by cars rear-ending others due to sudden speed changes caused by traffic conditions, this should eliminate many minor shunts that cause massive tailbacks and in a roundabout way, insurance increases.

Stephen15

Amirani wrote: »

Have you seen how expensive rolls are in France? Or many other places in Europe?

Most urban ringroads don't have tolls only intercity roads.

CeilingFly

Visconti wrote: »

I have driven all over Europe and America and the driving is worst over here.

I have a feeling you have never driven in Paris, nor anywhere in Italy or Spain.

UK and Germans are good and we compare ourselves to the UK a lot and we are certainly worse than the UK, but Italy is mayhem, Paris is crazy and the Spaniards, well they are a law unto themselves.

Problem with driving on inside lane of the M50 is that unless you are doing a crawl pace you'll be weaving in and out like a dog on an agility course and THAT causes far more accidents - hecne whilst its not perfect, the safer option for many motorists is using the middle lane and then the outer lane for overtaking

K.Flyer

CeilingFly wrote: »

I have a feeling you have never driven in Paris, nor anywhere in Italy or Spain.

UK and Germans are good and we compare ourselves to the UK a lot and we are certainly worse than the UK, but Italy is mayhem, Paris is crazy and the Spaniards, well they are a law unto themselves.

Problem with driving on inside lane of the M50 is that unless you are doing a crawl pace you'll be weaving in and out like a dog on an agility course and THAT causes far more accidents - hecne whilst its not perfect, the safer option for many motorists is using the middle lane and then the outer lane for overtaking

I've driven in a lot of different countries and I think I can safely say from my experience that the quality of most Irish drivers on motorways is atrocious.

There are a couple of problems with the middle lane mindset. By taking on the belief that it's "safer" to drive in the middle lane you get drivers into thinking that it is perfectly fine to join the motorway and move straight out into the centre lane even when there are no other cars to overtake in lane one.
This then creates the issue for the driver in lane one catching up with that type of driver and having to decide whether to cross over lanes to overtake or pass on the left.

CeilingFly

K.Flyer wrote: »

I've driven in a lot of different countries and I think I can safely say from my experience that the quality of most Irish drivers on motorways is atrocious.

There are a couple of problems with the middle lane mindset. By taking on the belief that it's "safer" to drive in the middle lane you get drivers into thinking that it is perfectly fine to join the motorway and move straight out into the centre lane even when there are no other cars to overtake in lane one.
This then creates the issue for the driver in lane one catching up with that type of driver and having to decide whether to cross over lanes to overtake or pass on the left.

I talking specifically the M50 - unless you are doing under 90kmh you'll be weaving in and out like a yo yo. I don't agree with middle lane driving, but practicality means that it is the better and safer option for many motorists on the M50 due to the volume of traffic. Similarly, its the better option on the M25 in London where the inner lane is almost a truck lane

K.Flyer

If people drove on the M50 with better consideration, paid attention to the traffic and not their phones, stopped hogging centre and outer lanes at <80 / 90 kph and stopped trying to queue jump at exits causing blockages in lane one then most likely the traffic would run a lot smoither, less delays and less talk of more tolling to get traffic off the road.