M50 Second Toll

Klopp

Has anyone noticed the second toll that is been constructed on the M50 at red cow exit? When driving NB you can see the work on-going when heading NB. I can't find information online about this or when it was agreed. The M50 is nightmare 24/7, this isn't going to ease the congestion.

Tzardine

From February

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/m50-drivers-facing-more-toll-points-in-bid-to-tackle-traffic-congestion-36592474.html

pad199207

Klopp wrote: »

Has anyone noticed the second toll that is been constructed on the M50 at red cow exit? When driving NB you can see the work on-going when heading NB. I can't find information online about this or when it was agreed. The M50 is nightmare 24/7, this isn't going to ease the congestion.

Watch the N7 inbound back up from Long Mile Road so if they toll the M50 between Red Cow and Liffey Valley.

LiamaDelta

Klopp wrote:

Has anyone noticed the second toll that is been constructed on the M50 at red cow exit? When driving NB you can see the work on-going when heading NB. I can't find information online about this or when it was agreed. The M50 is nightmare 24/7, this isn't going to ease the congestion.

Are you sure it's not work for the variable speed limit?

pearcider

The m50 is a nightmare due to a lack of a comprehensive tram system, underground or even decent cycle paths. No investment in public transport due to, let's be honest, jealous culchies running the city have brought us to this.

the_syco

TII chief executive Michael Nolan last year told the Public Accounts Committee the "main solution" would be "demand management" in the form of multi-point tolling, where vehicles were charged across a number of locations.

Seems like they've copped that people will try to avoid the M50 toll section, they're now going to toll all sections, so people totally avoid the road!

Do motorists gain from this at all?

ScouseMouse

Surely this will just push people onto side roads. The m50 was meant to take them off the side roads. Fecking dopes

L1011

Whats being constructed now are variable speed limit signage. Multipoint tolling would probably require legislation. It'll also likely be similar to that used in Portugal on their PPP roads (that were free to users with the payments made by the state until their economy crashed) where each interjunction section costs about 20c, meaning short trips across the Westlink would be vastly cheaper.

bucketybuck

L1011 wrote: »

meaning short trips across the Westlink would be vastly cheaper.

Words cannot express how shocked I would be if the prices for any users actually decreased.

L1011

bucketybuck wrote: »

Words cannot express how shocked I would be if the prices for any users actually decreased.

There isn't a hope in hell they'd retain the 2.10 for crossing the Westlink in a multi-point situation for as long as the Taoiseach has to get re-elected by locals.

Tag or video reg will probably become compulsory to use the road at all also.

roadmaster

I believe these are the works being carried out on the M50

https://www.rod.ie/projects/enhancing-motorway-operation-services

marno21

There won't be any multipoint tolling until it's a last resort as it's a political decision.

The priority for TII is maintaining their asset. They don't care about side roads. If the M50 has peak time pricing the ambition will be to remove unnecessary journeys before the motorway becomes totally gridlocked

Pete_Cavan

There is already a thread on this, they should be merged;

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057840591/3/#post106182001

Again everyone is predicting doom without any knowledge of what form multi point tolling will take. The total cost of using the M50 with multi point tolling could be set at no more than the cost of the existing Westlink toll.

If drivers flee the M50 to avoid paying any tolls and the alternative routes become jammed, journey times on the M50 will plummet. Paying a Euro or two to use it will be great value and traffic will quickly migrate back to the M50. Only short hop journeys where you would only travel one or two junctions on the M50 would it make sense to use an alternative route when you weigh up cost v journey time. Removing that traffic would be of great benefit to the remaining users, worth paying a few quid for.

wexie

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Again everyone is predicting doom without any knowledge of what form multi point tolling will take. The total cost of using the M50 with multi point tolling could be set at no more than the cost of the existing Westlink toll.

You are absolutely right in saying that we don't know.

On the balance of probabilities though it's unlikely to get cheaper or even stay the same is it?

arleitiss

ScouseMouse wrote: »

Surely this will just push people onto side roads. The m50 was meant to take them off the side roads. Fecking dopes

Maybe if people knew how to use M50 - this would not be an issue.
Whenever I drive on M3 - People actually get into left lane if you're coming close to them and everything works fine.


M50 just carries bunch of inbreds from all over Dublin where 3rd lane will be going slower than 1st lane and 2nd lane will have speeding trucks and aggressive white vans.

wexie

arleitiss wrote: »

Maybe if people knew how to use M50 - this would not be an issue.
Whenever I drive on M3 - People actually get into left lane if you're coming close to them and everything works fine.


M50 just carries bunch of inbreds from all over Dublin where 3rd lane will be going slower than 1st lane and 2nd lane will have speeding trucks and aggressive white vans.

I swear I've been on the M50 at times and wondered is there some roadtax discount you can get for not using the left most lane

blackwhite

ScouseMouse wrote: »

Surely this will just push people onto side roads. The m50 was meant to take them off the side roads. Fecking dopes

The M50 wasn't intended for that - it's original intention was to allow people travelling across the country (i.e. Cork to Belfast, Wicklow to Navan, anywhere outside of Dublin to the airport, etc) avoid going into the city,

The fact that it quickly became a trunk route for local traffic around the city doesn't change what it's original purpose was.

serfboard

blackwhite wrote: »

The M50 wasn't intended for that - it's original intention was to allow people travelling across the country (i.e. Cork to Belfast, Wicklow to Navan, anywhere outside of Dublin to the airport, etc) avoid going into the city.

Indeed. Which is why it should only have had 6 junctions (at the M1/2/3/4/7/11). Instead it has 14!

blackwhite wrote: »

The fact that it quickly became a trunk route for local traffic around the city ...

... is due to the fact that there are far too many junctions on it.

blackwhite

serfboard wrote: »

Indeed. Which is why it should only have had 6 junctions (at the M1/2/3/4/7/11). Instead it has 14!

... is due to the fact that there are far too many junctions on it.

I’d add the N31 to that, but otherwise fully agree.

Somewhere along the line the purpose of the M50 was sidelined (I’d guess by political localism!) and what was built isn’t fit for its actual purpose

marno21

The N3-N7 section which was built first, and indeed the M1-N3 section is decent with well spaced junctions and no residential area junctions, all national roads bar Ballymun which was a dual carraigeway into the city centre.

It's south of the N7 junction that the mess begins with Ballymount, then all junctions bar J11 and J14 are with residential areas, bar J16 which could be justified for N11 access but the N11 can be accessed via J14 southbound and J17 northbound.

Sleeper12

This is for the new speed limits

Long term there could be as many as 10 tolling points on the m50 though. They want to stop people hoping on & off just going one or two stops.

petronius

I did think the m50 was to be complete ring road - with a southerly tunnel from the port to sandyford - but the citizens of Dublin 4 wouldn't have it

Sleeper12

petronius wrote:

I did think the m50 was to be complete ring road - with a southerly tunnel from the port to sandyford - but the citizens of Dublin 4 wouldn't have it

Nope. Remember this road was planned long before the job actually started. Tunnelling technology was far too expensive for us back then. There wasn't enen the channel tunnel back then.

It was to be a ring road alright but it was supposed to be a bridge. It was eventually knocked back because of the bird sanctuary in Booterstown believe it or not.

Chris_5339762

The land is still reserved for it though. It was never knocked back as far as I know, just not pursued yet.

marno21

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

The land is still reserved for it though. It was never knocked back as far as I know, just not pursued yet.

You can see the reservation on Google Satellite, the only part no longer there is the alignment used for the Drummartin Link Road

Sleeper12

Chris_5339762 wrote:

The land is still reserved for it though. It was never knocked back as far as I know, just not pursued yet.

I've never give up hope. I live Raheny /Killbarrack area. It's nuts that I drive all the way around Dublin to get to Bray. I can almost see it from my house!

Sam Russell

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I've never give up hope. I live Raheny /Killbarrack area. It's nuts that I drive all the way around Dublin to get to Bray. I can almost see it from my house!

The DART goes from Raheny to Bray. Should be 50 mins, but there is a problem between Dalkey and Bray due to s signal fire. Fare is €4.75 (Leap). Should be quicker and cheaper than the M50.

Sleeper12

Sam Russell wrote:

The DART goes from Raheny to Bray. Should be 50 mins, but there is a problem between Dalkey and Bray due to s signal fire. Fare is €4.75 (Leap). Should be quicker and cheaper than the M50.

Sorry. I should have said. I'm in appliance repair so I drive. I'm also autistic & can't use public transport but that's a whole different story

jim salter

L1011 wrote: »

There isn't a hope in hell they'd retain the 2.10 for crossing the Westlink in a multi-point situation for as long as the Taoiseach has to get re-elected by locals.

Tag or video reg will probably become compulsory to use the road at all also.

https://m.herald.ie/news/varadkar-under-pressure-to-scrap-plan-for-more-m50-tolls-27990158.html

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/potential-new-m50-tolls-revealed-today-1.1417271?mode=amp

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/nra-proposes-additional-tolls-for-m50-1.1759590?mode=amp

http://www.thejournal.ie/m50-tolls-varadkar-938231-Jun2013/?amp=1

I guess we all know this has nothing to do with trying to deal with the congestion problem but to do with generating revenue. Leo dïckhead Varadkar (as far back as 2011) wad touting multi point tolling.

If the government wanted to (really) do something about the congestion, a proper infrastructure plan would be put in place and executed. Instead we are getting more building (welcome back the boom - yet another false economy created by keeping units off the market for prolonged periods of time to drive up demand & price) without proper infrastructure to facilitate it.

Well done...

Sleeper12

jim salter wrote:

I guess we all know this has nothing to do with trying to deal with the congestion problem but to do with generating revenue. Leo dïckhead Varadkar (as far back as 2011) wad touting multi point tolling.

Much as I hate paying tolls (about 130 per month for me) I welcome multi tolls. They need to discourage drivers using the m50 for short hops

Aontachtoir

jim salter;107069359

I guess we all know this has nothing to do with trying to deal with the congestion problem but to do with generating revenue. 

I don't think we know that at all, Jim. Multipoint tolling is a legitimate way to discourage unnecessary use of the M50. If it brings in cash for infrastructure, all the better.

marno21

The idea that multipoint tolling will be used for revenue generation is drivel

It'll cost a fortune to run the multipoint tolling system, there are far cheaper ways to generate revenue

Demand management is quit easily managed by charging people even small amounts. And it works. You'd be amazed how much habit changing people can achieve when they're forced to cough up a few euros.

Kermit.de.frog

The answer. Double the lanes. Add new flyovers and upgrade side roads.








Demolish what needs demolishing.

All agreed?

Great.

Let's get it done.

Carawaystick

marno21 wrote: »

It'll cost a fortune to run the multipoint tolling system, there are far cheaper ways to generate revenue

It already costs a fortune for single point tolling, the toll co gets 28% or so

n!ghtmancometh

pad199207 wrote: »

Watch the N7 inbound back up from Long Mile Road so if they toll the M50 between Red Cow and Liffey Valley.

It's already backed up from the exit off M50 at N7 to Long Mile Road junction/Woodies as it is. I know because private traffic coming off M50 blocks the entrance to the (poorly designed, if at all designed) bus lane on my commute every morning. Another toll might actually discourage some of these (majority single occupant) vehicles from making journeys and using alternatives. Can't go on as it is for much longer anyway.

jim salter

Aontachtoir wrote: »

jim salter;107069359

I don't think we know that at all, Jim. Multipoint tolling is a legitimate way to discourage unnecessary use of the M50. If it brings in cash for infrastructure, all the better.

Really?

So this is about freeing up the M50 for those that need to travel further distances? Wake up will you. Pushing motorists off the M50 will cause the major traffic congestion to the surrounding areas and residential areas.

This is typical Irish mentality. Guess what Aontachtoir, the tolls were put in place to pay for the building of the M50 and once paid were supposed to be removed however, our gov't saw a cash cow (the same as the USC) and kept it going. Now the tolls are owned and operated by a French consortium.

If you believe the multi point tolls are about traffic management you are naive. The only way to improve the traffic management is with proper infrastructure and efficient public transport

JohnC.

Multipoint tolling is used in other countries. Yet you want to call it "Irish mentality" when Ireland is the country which doesn't have it?

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

jimmynokia

it is a carpark this tolling idea would not sit well and for those in the transport industry will suffer with delays and choking up backroads etc, so for the point I seen earlier would not suit the clowns that ring up courier companies and ask where is my delivery it will have the opposite effect overall.

Aontachtoir

jim salter wrote: »

So this is about freeing up the M50 for those that need to travel further distances? Wake up will you. Pushing motorists off the M50 will cause the major traffic congestion to the surrounding areas and residential areas.

This is typical Irish mentality. Guess what Aontachtoir, the tolls were put in place to pay for the building of the M50 and once paid were supposed to be removed however, our gov't saw a cash cow (the same as the USC) and kept it going. Now the tolls are owned and operated by a French consortium.

If you believe the multi point tolls are about traffic management you are naive. The only way to improve the traffic management is with proper infrastructure and efficient public transport

Multipoint tolls contibute significantly to traffic management. If you have to pay a small fee per kilometre travelled on the M50 (perhaps capped for the benefit of traffic using the motorway as the Dublin bypass it was intended to be used, such as travelling from the N7 to the airport), casual use of the motorway will drop. Yes, some of that traffic will move onto other roads, but there is currently more capacity in Dublin's R- and L-roads than in the M50, which is grinding to a halt in front of our eyes. The traffic flow must be rebalanced while we work to reduce demand. 

I don't see the issue with the M50 tolling structure being owned by a French consortium. It certainly doesn't have any significant impact on traffic management issues.

The M50 is Ireland's busiest motorway, and needs help to keep moving. Multipoint tolling is part of a sensible solution, which also involves variable speed limits, capacity increases where possible, and significant investment in public transportation infrastructure. I don't see what is negative about an "Irish mentality" - aren't we all Irish?

Sam Russell

The structure of tolling would have massive effect on usage.

1. Single charge of say €3 no matter how many junctions. This will penalise short usage.

2. Charge per Km. This will just act as a deterrent to those who can easily be made by an alternative route avoiding the M50.

3. Tolls that are higher in busy times, such as is used on the Port Tunnel - say three time bands, off peak, shoulder, and peak.

4. A combination of the above.

Add in variable speed limits, coupled with average speed detection and you have a full set.

The devil is in the detail.

testicles

This post has been deleted.

Sam Russell

testicles wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

If they have average speed cameras, they have enough infrastructure for a barrier free tolling system.

I think the toll will be some time away though.

Stephen15

More tolls on M50 will mean more drivers avoiding it meaning more cars in the city centre and other smaller which is bad for public transport users.

Chris_5339762

I don't see any evidence of any speed camera work at Red Cow. They're resurfacing the whole area.

Visconti

I dont care if there is 20 tolls it goes against my expenses. If i could stop the arrogant looking ***** holding the middle and fast lanes and use the road properly I would be happy. I have driven all over Europe and America and the driving is worst over here. The heads on them with their pompous Im doing 80 face. Its called an overtaking lane for a reason. To overtake and move back in.

positron

I would be all in favour of multiple toll points along the length of M50 with some sort of grading system - first gate 1.50 euro, two gates 2.00 and four or more capped at 3 euro or something like that.

Most of the congestion and related incidents the moment is between Blanch and Tallagh junctions. I often wondered if there a way to widen that section of the M50 - say add two more lanes each way, and in a way to reserve the middle four lanes for thru traffic only (no entry from these junctions, exit only).

Amirani

Patww79 wrote: »

Other countries would have it priced accordingly. I couldn't see the strawberry beds one reducing in price when another opens.

Have you seen how expensive rolls are in France? Or many other places in Europe?

Amirani

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The answer. Double the lanes. Add new flyovers and upgrade side roads.
Demolish what needs demolishing.

All agreed?

Great.

Let's get it done.

Amazing how Los Angeles completely removed their traffic problems by doing exactly that.

CeilingFly

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

I don't see any evidence of any speed camera work at Red Cow. They're resurfacing the whole area.

No one has even mentioned speed cameras.

Its variable speed limit signage to indicate to motorists the new maximum speed applicable from that point when the signs are operating (peak times)

There may be average speed cameras installed too in conjunction with the signage to ensure compliance.

Considering that most accidents on m50 are caused by cars rear-ending others due to sudden speed changes caused by traffic conditions, this should eliminate many minor shunts that cause massive tailbacks and in a roundabout way, insurance increases.

Stephen15

Amirani wrote: »

Have you seen how expensive rolls are in France? Or many other places in Europe?

Most urban ringroads don't have tolls only intercity roads.