Scottish Parliament rejects Brexit

ThinkProgress

seamus wrote: »

It's all showboating. Setting the stage for the inevitable. The Scots reject Brexit, Westminster will completely ignore it. Around the end of the summer, the Scottish parliament will start talking about scheduling a new independence referendum. And they will imply in not so many words that if the UK can't make a deal on Brexit, Scotland will have no choice but to hold a new independence referendum.

Westminster will say that they won't allow Scotland to have one, and they won't recognise the outcome of any vote. And so when the UK crashes out of the EU and Scotland holds a referendum, it'll be a landslide win to leave the UK. With the UK no longer in the EU, the EU is free to recognise Scotland's declaration of independence. London will not have the support to try and forcibly suppress it and will have no choice but to accept it.

Scotland will adopt the euro as its official currency and make an official application to join the EU.

lol...

And back in the real world, the little Scots just enjoy sticking their finger in westminster's eye every now and then. Just to keep them honest as it were... :P

There is no real consequences to this.

The UK will exit the EU... they will begin to flourish outside the EU straight-jacket. Scotland may or may not have a future independence referendum, but with the UK economy flying high post Brexit... a yes vote would probably be even less likely than before!

topper75

donegal_man wrote: »

I hate to be pedantic (and now we all know where this is going) but the Isle of Man isn't part of the UK or EU. It's a self governing Crown Dependency.

Stop it with that would you!

Stay on-message and keep up the mantra -

"Ireland would be nowhere without the EU!" TM

If you get bored of that one - you can move over to "Only a federal Europe can stop countries going to war against each other". TM

Guy:Incognito

topper75 wrote: »

Stop it with that would you!

Stay on-message and keep up the mantra -

"Ireland would be nowhere without the EU!" TM

If you get bored of that one - you can move over to "Only a federal Europe can stop countries going to war against each other". TM

Surely you support the break up of the UK so? Its just a smaller version of the eu, but with much more integration.

Subcomandante Marcos

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Surely you support the break up of the UK so? Its just a smaller version of the eu, but with much more integration.

And less regional autonomy.

jacksie66

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seamus

ThinkProgress wrote: »

The UK will exit the EU... they will begin to flourish outside the EU straight-jacket.

Yeah, I mean, just look at all those companies queueing up to relocate their headquarters to London after Brexit...

Oh, no, wait.

SEPT 23 1989

Send the heavy horses in

Subcomandante Marcos

Richard Hillman wrote: »

The Jocks rejected independence so they can, as they say up there, "Get tae f**k"

One of the biggest factors for Scottish people voting against independence was because they believed it would mean Scotland would be removed from and have a hard time rejoining the EU.

The English and Welsh then went ahead and voted to leave the EU within a few years of telling the Scots that if they left the UK they'd lose their EU status.

There has been a monumental change in the political landscape and as such the question should be, and will be, revisited.

Subcomandante Marcos

seamus wrote: »

Yeah, I mean, just look at all those companies queueing up to relocate their headquarters to London after Brexit...

Oh, no, wait.

Thomson Reuters today announce they'd be moving one of their core business to Dublin to add to the London exodus.

Billy86

ThinkProgress wrote: »

The UK will exit the EU... they will begin to flourish outside the EU straight-jacket.

In what ways, exactly? As in what industries will flourish and for what reasons, post Brexit?

Subcomandante Marcos

Billy86 wrote: »

In what ways, exactly? As in what industries will flourish and for what reasons, post Brexit?

Gonna have a hard time shifting all those left hand dive cars they're producing in the British market after they are priced out of the single market by tariffs.

Subcomandante Marcos

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

Thomson Reuters today announce they'd be moving one of their core business to Dublin to add to the London exodus.

but no people, its little more than a brass plaque job.

Neill Penney, the company's co-head of trading, said there were no plans to move staff from London but that some new personnel would be hired in Dublin.

He said Thomson Reuters had opted for Dublin over Amsterdam because it was the most cost-effective, would "minimise disruption for clients" and because Dublin's growing role as a centre for financial technology and research would "open a number of doors" should the company want to expand.

"It doesn't matter for our customers which European city we are in ... From a technology front, the technology is remaining where it is, which is in London and New York," he said.

Subcomandante Marcos

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

Gonna have a hard time shifting all those left hand dive cards they're producing in the British market after they are priced out of the single market by tariffs.

are left hand drive cards any different to right hand drive ones?

I must confess, I have a wallet full of cards, but it never occurred to me that there might be a difference.

Subcomandante Marcos

Aegir wrote: »

are left hand drive cards any different to right hand drive ones?

I must confess, I have a wallet full of cards, but it never occurred to me that there might be a difference.

hohoho, you found a typo, fantastic job. :rolleyes:

Subcomandante Marcos

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

hohoho, you found a typo, fantastic job. :rolleyes:

well the post didn't make sense any other way.

you may want to check where all the BMWs, Mercedes and Golfs that we currently buy in this country are made.

(hint, it isn't in the eu)

Subcomandante Marcos

Aegir wrote: »

well the post didn't make sense any other way.

you may want to check where all the BMWs, Mercedes and Golfs that we currently buy in this country are made.

(hint, it isn't in the eu)

I think it's fairly obvious that I was pointing out that British car production relies on access to the single market, and last time I looked at a map or demographic data Ireland (4.5 odd million people) with it's right hand driver cars had a much, much smaller market for Britain to sell to than the rest of the single market (450 odd million people, largest single market on the planet, without or without the UK) with it's left hand drive cars, so I chose to focus on the left hand drive ones, because basic economics.

Kermit.de.frog

Aegir wrote: »

but no people, its little more than a brass plaque job.

Thin end of the wedge.

They are hiring in Dublin and will fire in London.

Can't have negative publicity.

testicles

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Akrasia

Beasty wrote: »

I'm struggling to see a soft landing whichever way this turns out

Watching this is like watching 'Speed 2 - Cruise Control'

It's blatantly obvious that it's all going to crash but it's happening in slow motion.

Avatar MIA

Brexit is a clever plan by the Aristo Tories, they'll see the UK economy plummet and will be able to rejoin the EU with the UK being Net beneficiaries. :pac:

Subcomandante Marcos

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

I think it's fairly obvious that I was pointing out that British car production relies on access to the single market, and last time I looked at a map or demographic data Ireland (4.5 odd million people) with it's right hand driver cars had a much, much smaller market for Britain to sell to than the rest of the single market (450 odd million people, largest single market on the planet, without or without the UK) with it's left hand drive cars, so I chose to focus on the left hand drive ones, because basic economics.

it is a global market. 50% of cars exported from the UK don't go to the EU, so there is no problem exporting to China, Japan, the US etc.

the automotive industry is far too important for the economies of all the major countries in europe for the issue of duty not to be resolved.

Aegir

Aegir wrote: »

it is a global market. 50% of cars exported from the UK don't go to the EU, so there is no problem exporting to China, Japan, the US etc.

the automotive industry is far too important for the economies of all the major countries in europe for the issue of duty not to be resolved.

Apart from the total lack of trade deals.

dr.fuzzenstein

ThinkProgress wrote: »

The UK will exit the EU... they will begin to flourish outside the EU straight-jacket. Scotland may or may not have a future independence referendum, but with the UK economy flying high post Brexit... a yes vote would probably be even less likely than before!

Billy86 wrote: »

In what ways, exactly? As in what industries will flourish and for what reasons, post Brexit?

It's underpants economics by the Brexiteers.

Step 1: Brexit
Step 2: ?
Step 3: Profit!

That is the entire whitepaper for Brexit right there.
It is sad that nowadays trolls and morons get to decide whatever agenda suits them against all sense, reason, reality and facts. Even if they are damaging the nation to "prove" a point that is idiotic, misguided or even insane.
It really is cutting off your nose to spite your face.
It shows in their arguments. When all Brexit arguments get turned into utter mincemeat in any discussion, the retort is a hurt "you have to respect our decisison!"
Well, no. The old adage of "You MUST respect other people's opinions!" is bollocks. If your opinion is that the earth is flat, Obama is a lizard, Trump is the greatest President that ever lived and that Brexit is a financially sound idea, you deserve to be ridiculed and laughed at.

Avatar MIA wrote: »

Brexit is a clever plan by the Aristo Tories, they'll see the UK economy plummet and will be able to rejoin the EU with the UK being Net beneficiaries. :pac:

Well, I stand corrected, we have a valid reason for Brexit!
I'd put money on that happening.

Kermit.de.frog

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Thin end of the wedge.

They are hiring in Dublin and will fire in London.

Can't have negative publicity.

there seems to be a real belief that Dublin is to become the new London. it simply isn't going to happen.

Goldman Sachs, for example, chose Dublin as its new eu base and is moving 20 jobs here. They currently employ over 5,000 in the UK.

JP Morgan are potentially doubling their Dublin office, with up to an additional 500 staff. They currently employ 16,000 people in the UK.

Yeah, it's great news for Ireland to be chosen, but you have to get it into perspective. The early predictions of 100,000 jobs going in London is now estimated to be closer to 10,000. A lot, especially if you are one of the 10,000, but it isn't the seismic shift people were forecasting.

RobertKK

Aegir wrote: »

there seems to be a real belief that Dublin is to become the new London. it simply isn't going to happen.

Goldman Sachs, for example, chose Dublin as its new eu base and is moving 20 jobs here. They currently employ over 5,000 in the UK.

JP Morgan are potentially doubling their Dublin office, with up to an additional 500 staff. They currently employ 16,000 people in the UK.

Yeah, it's great news for Ireland to be chosen, but you have to get it into perspective. The early predictions of 100,000 jobs going in London is now estimated to be closer to 10,000. A lot, especially if you are one of the 10,000, but it isn't the seismic shift people were forecasting.

But it is a leak of jobs from London that has started and possibly will continue for many years.

Larbre34

Aegir wrote: »

it is a global market. 50% of cars exported from the UK don't go to the EU, so there is no problem exporting to China, Japan, the US etc.

the automotive industry is far too important for the economies of all the major countries in europe for the issue of duty not to be resolved.

Yes but you have to look at the totality of the equation. By your own stat, 50% of UK made cars exported DO go to the EU

Percentage of German made car exports that go to the UK? 14%........(the figures are lower for French, Italian, Spanish, Czech and Swedish car companies)

Now i think an export market could absorb a drop of 14% with some pain and reorganisation, but 50%? 50 is existential territory

Also, vitally, ALL the mass producers of cars in the UK are foreign owned, even the legacy Brit brands of Vauxhall, Jaguar-Land Rover, Bentley and Rolls Royce!

One of these days, the Brexiteers will wake up to the facts of who holds all the cards in this thing, i just hope for the ordinary workers of the UK, whose lives are being pawned by a fewTory egotists, that its not too late

Cee-Jay-Cee

Fann Linn wrote: »

Might upset a few Rangers fans.

Somehow I don't think Rangers fans are very politically aware.

Larbre34

Larbre34 wrote: »

Yes but you have to look at the totality of the equation. By your own stat, 50% of UK made cars exported DO go to the EU

Percentage of German made car exports that go to the UK? 14%........(the figures are lower for French, Italian, Spanish, Czech and Swedish car companies)

you miss my point. There is no reason why exporting cars to the eu post Brexit needs to be any harder than it is to currently export cars to China or the US

Larbre34 wrote: »

Now i think an export market could absorb a drop of 14% with some pain and reorganisation, but 50%? 50 is existential territory

Is there a war on? why should either party go through any pain, why not just enter in to an agreement on the import/export of cars?

Larbre34 wrote: »

Also, vitally, ALL the mass producers of cars in the UK are foreign owned, even the legacy Brit brands of Vauxhall, Jaguar-Land Rover, Bentley and Rolls Royce!

why is that vital? there is a lot more to a company than who owns the shares, unless you consider Guinness to be an English beer

Kermit.de.frog

Aegir wrote: »

there seems to be a real belief that Dublin is to become the new London. it simply isn't going to happen.

Goldman Sachs, for example, chose Dublin as its new eu base and is moving 20 jobs here. They currently employ over 5,000 in the UK.

JP Morgan are potentially doubling their Dublin office, with up to an additional 500 staff. They currently employ 16,000 people in the UK.

Yeah, it's great news for Ireland to be chosen, but you have to get it into perspective. The early predictions of 100,000 jobs going in London is now estimated to be closer to 10,000. A lot, especially if you are one of the 10,000, but it isn't the seismic shift people were forecasting.

You don't get it. Reuters are not going to fire 5,000 staff in London. The negative publicity is not worth it.

Again it is thin end of the wedge for all these moves. You can not run all your forward derivatives from Dublin and have skeleton staff. You need a lot of traders and staff. They will be hired in Dublin.

What they say is no one will move from London.

Have to focus on the language.

Google started with 10 people in Dublin.

I rest my case.

Kermit.de.frog

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

You don't get it. Reuters are not going to fire 5,000 staff in London. The negative publicity is not worth it.

Again it is thin end of the wedge for all these moves. You can not run all your forward derivatives from Dublin and have skeleton staff. You need a lot of traders and staff. They will be hired in Dublin.

What they say is no one will move from London.

Have to focus on the language.

Google started with 10 people in Dublin.

I rest my case.

what, you think Reuters are actually going to hire 5000 people in Dublin?

ain't.gonna.happen