Is my child being groomed?

Malayalam

This tendency to want to have the ''state'' fix all problems is one that is suspect, in my opinion. It is a post-modern habit to relinquish all self responsibility and power. This situation as presently described by the OP does not require the heavy hand of faceless state institutions. The individual has power - don't relinquish it so readily. Talk to the parent of the child. Ensure contact is stopped. Inform the toddler of their privacy rights and about their body. If after all avenues are exhausted and there still remains a danger then consider informing state authorities. It is more likely that hormones rather than abuse is driving the older child's behaviour.

wiggle16

spaceHopper wrote: »

I've a strong feeling that the psychologists would have to file a report with TUSLA once abuse is suspected but I could be wrong

That's my point. Let them decide if Tusla needs to be contacted.

If the behaviour is only between these two boys and isn't arising from previous abuse (which is likely as it sounds like so called sexual play) then it's unlikely they'll contact Tusla - they simply won't need to.

TheBoyConor

It's all well and good keeping her toddler away from that family but while that will protect him, the 11 yo could be abusing other children aswell.

Op has already tried to reason with the mother but it is all falling on deaf ears. It is also falling on deaf ears with the other family woman and they want to sweep it under the carpet and smother it like we did in decades past.

One way around it is to have your child assessed by a psychologist who, when they become aware of an abuse issue, will be obliged to inform Tusla who will then come in to question and investigate the family.

She can't then give out to you for calling Tusla on them because you won't have.

wiggle16

TheBoyConor wrote: »

It's all well and good keeping her toddler away from that family but while that will protect him, the 11 yo could be abusing other children aswell.

Op has already tried to reason with the mother but it is all falling on deaf ears. It is also falling on deaf ears with the other family.

The assumption that he's abusing other kids is unfounded. There no reason to think he's doing that. Referral to a child psychologist will quickly figure that out if it is the case.

She hasn't tried to reason with her sister. Her sister doesn't know anything about it.

leggo

Yeah it’s unclear if she’s said anything to the sister yet, so I’d assume not because I’d imagine that’d be a big update if the OP chose to share it. Though I think the OP may have stopped posting now that the judgey, reactive posts have started coming in.

laserlad2010

leggo wrote: »

Yeah it’s unclear if she’s said anything to the sister yet, so I’d assume not because I’d imagine that’d be a big update if the OP chose to share it. Though I think the OP may have stopped posting now that the judgey, reactive posts have started coming in.

So you've backed down from the citizen's arrest claim then?

Any healthcare professional - GP, Psychologist, etc, is now legally mandated to make a declaration to TUSLA in cases where child sex abuse is suspected. This situation, from professional experience, absolutely would necessitate a declaration.

It is absolutely undisputed in the medical literature that premature expression of sexual desire is a risk factor for having been abused oneself.

Given that the 11 year old specifically asked the young boy to put his foot on his willy, this is a cause for concern.

never_mind

laserlad2010 wrote: »

So you've backed down from the citizen's arrest claim then?

Any healthcare professional - GP, Psychologist, etc, is now legally mandated to make a declaration to TUSLA in cases where child sex abuse is suspected. This situation, from professional experience, absolutely would necessitate a declaration.

It is absolutely undisputed in the medical literature that premature expression of sexual desire is a risk factor for having been abused oneself.

Given that the 11 year old specifically asked the young boy to put his foot on his willy, this is a cause for concern.

But do you not think the child's mother, the OP's sister, should be taken aside first before TUSLA contact her? If this was a neighbour's child I might say go to TUSLA first but if you are a professional then I think your advice could be quite damaging to the family.

leggo

laserlad2010 wrote: »

So you've backed down from the citizen's arrest claim then?

Any healthcare professional - GP, Psychologist, etc, is now legally mandated to make a declaration to TUSLA in cases where child sex abuse is suspected. This situation, from professional experience, absolutely would necessitate a declaration.

It is absolutely undisputed in the medical literature that premature expression of sexual desire is a risk factor for having been abused oneself.

Given that the 11 year old specifically asked the young boy to put his foot on his willy, this is a cause for concern.

What are you on about? Can you go back and re-read my posts and understand what I actually said before speaking to me about this again. Or just don’t try and argue with me, or anyone, and help the OP. You know...the idea of the forum...

never_mind

never_mind wrote: »

But do you not think the child's mother, the OP's sister, should be taken aside first before TUSLA contact her? If this was a neighbour's child I might say go to TUSLA first but if you are a professional then I think your advice could be quite damaging to the family.

Health professionals have no choice in the matter, they're required to report any grounds for suspicion. Rightly so, since it's very possible the eleven year old is at risk himself.

The important thing here is both the kids safety, not falling out with family. That pales in comparison to leaving a kid at possible risk of abuse/futher abuse.

wiggle16

laserlad2010 wrote: »

Any healthcare professional - GP, Psychologist, etc, is now legally mandated to make a declaration to TUSLA in cases where child sex abuse is suspected. This situation, from professional experience, absolutely would necessitate a declaration. It is absolutely undisputed in the medical literature that premature expression of sexual desire is a risk factor for having been abused oneself. Given that the 11 year old specifically asked the young boy to put his foot on his willy, this is a cause for concern.

1) the OP is not, as far as we know, a healthcare professional. She is not mandated to report anything. Your assertions with regards to professional responsibility are irrelevant to this situation.

2) It is absolutely undisputed in the medical literature that premature expression of sexual desire is a risk factor for having been abused oneself.
- no one is arguing with that. However, again, it is not relevant: at 11, he is entering puberty. There's nothing premature about the fact that he is experiencing desires. The issue is his behaviour and how he is acting on them.
- You are making the assumption that he has experienced abuse, with no evidence. It is also undisputed that many boys who grow up to be sex offenders have no history of being abused. It can be entirely organic.
- It is also undisputed but not widely acknowledged that that kind of situation is not very uncommon. That doesn't make it appropriate, it doesn't make it harmless, and it doesn't mean its not a cause for concern, but it does not indicate that the boy is himself being abused.

3) you are absolutely putting the cart before the horse here. If the OP and her sister refer their children to psychologists, they will make the determination as to whether there is reason to involve Tusla - and they will be far better placed to make that call than anyone here on boards with their "professional experience".

What purpose does it serve to involve Tusla in this? What exactly do you think they are going to do about this? The OP would effectively be reporting her sister to child protection, when there is no reason to do so.
If the boy is referred to psychologists who can actually tell if abuse has occurred because it's their job, they can make that determination.

wiggle16

Candie wrote: »

Health professionals have no choice in the matter, they're required to report any grounds for suspicion. Rightly so, since it's very possible the eleven year old is at risk himself.

The important thing here is both the kids safety, not falling out with family. That pales in comparison to leaving a kid at possible risk of abuse/futher abuse.

Did you notice anywhere that the OP said she was a healthcare professional? Or that this situation only applied to her in that capacity? I must have missed that.
The responsibilities of healthcare professionals are irrelevant at this point.

You are leaping to the conclusion that the older boy is an abuse victim. You have no reason to do so. The OP never alludes to that possibility. The OP never expresses that concern. Her concern is with her son, and how best to handle this situation. Everything else is, quite honestly, wild speculation and hysteria.

This is not about etiquette or falling out with family. The obsession with dealing with "the possibility of abuse" is overriding common sense.

Why do people think that Tusla is some sort of "make-abuse-not-happen" magic wand? Or is it that people think they should cover their own arses in a situation like this, and would report the OP's sister just to dot the i's and cross the t's? Tusla is not a catch all where you can abdicate your own personal responsibilities.

What is it you think Tusla actually do? Read Leggo's post. That is exactly what would happen - and the OP will be left trying to justify putting her sister under scrutiny. This is not about appearances. It's about doing the right thing for everyone involved - and the sister has a right to know what is going on before anyone else is involved.

The OP's sister is not at fault here. There is NO REASON to think there is anything going on in her home to the extent where her child[ren] need to be removed from it for their safety. The OP was previously happy to have her son stay there - indicating she does not feel her sister's home is unsafe.

If the OP discusses this with her sister, they can cooperate in dealing with this. As I am sick of saying, any psychologist will be able to determine if Tusla need intervene. With the information we have, there is no reason for the OP to contact Tusla except for advice and guidance (which she should absolutely avail of).

People need to dispense with unnecessary contingencies and the witch-hunt mentality.

Owryan

leggo wrote: »

Yeah okay so...if you report a random on the street to Tusla, you can't just say "a girl in a blue shirt just called her child a ****, do something!" Complicated, I know.



Here is the most likely version of events if the OP went to Tusla now with what she knows:

They land down at the sister's house by surprise to inspect the situation.

Just to clarify something, tusla have received reports along the lines of "I saw someone hurt/shout/abuse a child but I don't know who they are.

As for turning up "by surprise", they will ring the person who has been referred to them, explain who they are, why they are contacting them and will seek to arrange a meeting, usually in the family home. Only where there is an immediate risk to a child would they normally turn up unannounced.

I've worked in a social work department, be surprised at what gets reported and by whom.

Owryan

spaceHopper wrote: »

I've a strong feeling that the psychologists would have to file a report with TUSLA once abuse is suspected but I could be wrong

Mandatory reporting is required where any suspicion exists that a child or adolescent is at risk.

professore

wiggle16 wrote: »

Her son is not being abused by a man. It's another child. As predatory and calculated as it is, it is not on the same level as abuse by an adult and it can't be dealt with in the same way. You're labelling an 11 year old child an abuser like.

What an appalling thing to say! If you're being abused, it doesn't matter WHO is doing the abusing! Can't believe this attitude. So this kid can go on abusing to his hearts content until he gets to 18 and ends up raping and murdering someone? This is EXACTLY the time to intervene and potentially uncover a chain of abuse as others have alluded to.

Putting the feelings of adults ahead of the welfare of children is disgusting.

wiggle16

If you'd bothered to read my other posts you would see that you are taking that quote completely out of context. I am not putting the feelings of adults over the welfare of children - don't be so stupid.

Yet another hysterical, reactionary post. "So this kid can go on abusing to his hearts content until he gets to 18 and ends up raping and murdering someone?" - where in Christ's name are you getting this from? He is an 11 year old boy. Not Jimmy Savile. Who are you to pass judgement like that, on a child?

Read the entire thread. You've added nothing with your hysterical, incontinent, unlettered response.

professore

wiggle16 wrote: »

If you'd bothered to read my other posts you would see that you are taking that quote completely out of context. I am not putting the feelings of adults over the welfare of children - don't be so stupid.

Yet another hysterical, reactionary post. "So this kid can go on abusing to his hearts content until he gets to 18 and ends up raping and murdering someone?" - where in Christ's name are you getting this from? He is an 11 year old boy. Not Jimmy Savile. Who are you to pass judgement like that, on a child?

Read the entire thread. You've added nothing with your hysterical, incontinent, unlettered response.

I'm not passing judgement. He's an 11 year old boy whose activities will be EVERY BIT as damaging to the victims as if he were Jimmy Savile. I think it's possible he was or is being abused himself. I don't know anything about him. If he's not somehow mentally deficient or acting out abuse he saw at home, 11 is old enough to know that this behaviour is WRONG.

My primary worry is for the OPs child. To minimise the abuse in any way is not helping him.

TheBoyConor

OP you need to do something about this double quick. As in immediately, without delay!

Your indecision and inertia on this is baffling. If I had a 4yo child like op and I found out he was being abused I would gladly do time for kicking someones teeth in, whether they be 11 or 111.

LegacyUser

OP here.. Mods you can close this thread now.

While I welcome the great advice from many of you, I think this thread has become very aggressive with many of you very quick to rush to judgement.
This is highly sensitive and the lives of 2 children are at risk here as well as a family relationship.

I wish that many of you would put yourselves in my shoes and see that this is not clear cut.

The situation is being dealt with but I will not be updating further as I do not want another slew of insults and judgement.

My child is and always has been my priority and I really resent any insinuation otherwise.

Thanks

Big Bag of Chips

Yellow card for professore, for Soapboxing.

Yellow card also for TheBoyConor for advocating violence.

All posters are reminded to reply to the OP, offering mature, constructive, civil advice.

Anyone who is unsure of the standard of posting expected in the Personal Issues Forum should reread The Forum Charter a few times.

Big Bag of Chips

Thread locked as per OP's request.