Would you become a sugar baby?

nigel_wilson

I'm a 20yr old male and I know a few of my former female classmates in secondary school the same age as me who apparently earn around €2000 in a week from travelling around Europe to be with middle aged men and offer escort services. One was a waster in school who know has enough money to turn her life around after failing the L.C and another did very well in school, does a science degree in college but she doesn't believe that a minimum wage job gives her enough money.

They vehemently deny that they're prostitutes and say, "if it can pay for school and luxuries, what's the harm?" Apparently it's not to uncommon for college students.

Would your morals let you do this?

erudec

nigel_wilson wrote: »

I'm a 20yr old male and I know a few of my former female classmates in secondary school the same age as me who apparently earn around €2000 in a week from travelling around Europe to be with middle aged men and offer escort services. One was a waster in school who know has enough money to turn her life around after failing the L.C and another did very well in school, does a science degree in college but she doesn't believe that a minimum wage job gives her enough money.

They vehemently deny that they're prostitutes and say, "if it can pay for school and luxuries, what's the harm?" Apparently it's not to uncommon for college students.

Would your morals let you do this?

For a million Euro, I think my other half would agree to it beforehand. My plan would be to have the date, then drink so heavily that I remember nothing the next day, then spend the next year asking my beloved if he forgives me, on our beach house on the Seychelles.

My morals would let me do this, but my desires would give me trouble. I want to be with him until I die, but there is a sum of money so enormous that, if he's willing to accept it, would do us more good than harm.

Doesn't anyone remember Indecent Proposal? That was the entire setup.

wakka12

The whole concept is just uncomfortable to me. I think the man wasting his money on this girl just because shes young and pretty who couldnt care less about him is sad and pathetic and I think the girl is taking advantage of the mans loneliness like the way a plastic surgeon who operates on mentally ill people is 'helping' them

erudec

wakka12 wrote: »

The whole concept is just uncomfortable to me. I think the man wasting his money on this girl just because shes young and pretty who couldnt care less about him is sad and pathetic and I think the girl is taking advantage of the mans loneliness like the way a plastic surgeon who operates on mentally ill people is 'helping' them

Agree, it's definitely not something people with empathy are cut out for.

The kind of person that would do a thing like that for less than the cost of a brand-new BMW would cut your throat if it suited them, I think. But so long as they're not lying to anyone, and they make it clear to their customers that this is purely a business transaction, I would let them get on with it, so long as they pay their taxes.

Neyite

Call it being a sugar baby or an escort but it's an exchange of sexual favours for financial benefit therefore it's sex work.

It's common for some from poorer countries or from countries where third level education is eye-wateringly expensive but I doubt it's all that common here.

To answer your question, no it's not something I could have done. I'm just not materialistic and the part time job in the chipper did me grand during my studies.

skallywag

It certainly is very common in poorer countries.

I've experienced something along the same lines as this as I was walking though a town in Cuba some years back. I got chatting to a guy about this and that, when he brought the conversation around to me coming around to his house for dinner that evening, where they would cook something nice after which I could spend some private time with his daughter if I wanted. I had previously heard about such happenings in Cuba so was not completely thrown back by this, it was still quite an eye opener to experience it in person though.

Odelay

skallywag wrote: »

It certainly is very common in poorer countries.

I've experienced something along the same lines as this as I was walking though a town in Cuba some years back. I got chatting to a guy about this and that, when he brought the conversation around to me coming around to his house for dinner that evening, where they would cook something nice after which I could spend some private time with his daughter if I wanted. I had previously heard about such happenings in Cuba so was not completely thrown back by this, it was still quite an eye opener to experience it in person though.

What? Was he pimping out his own daughter???

skallywag

Odelay wrote: »

What? Was he pimping out his own daughter???

Yes. It's not all that uncommon sadly.

Emme

skallywag wrote: »

Yes. It's not all that uncommon sadly.

In Cuba a young woman can be the main breadwinner for her entire family. They are called Jinetera, or in the case of men, Jinetero. It is common for these girls and men to have much older "boyfriends" or "girlfriends" from America or Europe who send them money. However men seem to be the main buyers of Jineteras and Jineteros in Cuba. These people do it out of necessity and to survive.

I don't know if this is the case with Sugar Babies. I came of age in the early 90s when a college education cost money. We worked in bars, shops etc. during the college year and went abroad and worked 2 or 3 jobs and saved what money we could. It was tough but there were fewer pressures on us in many ways. There wasn't the pressure to look Instagram ready all the time and we didn't spend much money on hair, make-up, clothes etc. We would have run a mile screaming if anyone suggested that we became Sugar Babies to make money for college.

I feel sorry for girls today and all the pressure they are under. If they do want to earn money as a Sugar Baby then they need to ensure their clients (for lack of a better word) use condoms and they should get regular STD tests themselves.

pwurple

I would not have been demure enough to pull it off. I would have been a completely appalling sugar baby! However, maybe I'm reading it wrong. Perhaps you need to be charming rather than demure. Be good company. That I can do. 

For post above, I don't feel sorry for girls these days at all. They have loads more confidence drilled into them, know well how to stand up for themselves and say no, or demand what they do want. They put the effort into the makeup and clothes, nails, hair etc because they want to. Hours and hours of online tutorials in whatever they are interested in it, and can clearly afford it. We didn't have those resources. What they choose to do is their own prerogative. I'll only get ratty when they spend thousands on hair, nails, make-up followed by a whinge that they can't pay their rent.

ginandtonicsky

Good god no. Call me old-fashioned, but sex is a pretty intimate thing to me, even casual sex with someone I'm attracted to makes me uncomfortable.

The idea of monetising it and turning my experience of it totally on its head would fundamentally damage me, my self-esteem, my self-identity, how I see and trust men etc. I'd be totally f*cked by it.

meeeeh

nigel_wilson wrote: »

Would your morals let you do this?

It's not something I would want to do but I was also never in a situation where I would feel I need to do it. Some are not that lucky. Sometimes thinking about morality of situation is the luxury people in relatively privileged position have (in comparison to those who live in poverty).

AfterLife

Most young lads would be all over this arrangement if some wealthy lady was offering.

ted1

Neyite wrote: »

Call it being a sugar baby or an escort but it's an exchange of sexual favours for financial benefit therefore it's sex work.

It's common for some from poorer countries or from countries where third level education is eye-wateringly expensive but I doubt it's all that common here.

To answer your question, no it's not something I could have done. I'm just not materialistic and the part time job in the chipper did me grand during my studies.

That’s providing they have actual sex.

corks finest

nigel_wilson wrote: »

I'm a 20yr old male and I know a few of my former female classmates in secondary school the same age as me who apparently earn around €2000 in a week from travelling around Europe to be with middle aged men and offer escort services. One was a waster in school who know has enough money to turn her life around after failing the L.C and another did very well in school, does a science degree in college but she doesn't believe that a minimum wage job gives her enough money.

They vehemently deny that they're prostitutes and say, "if it can pay for school and luxuries, what's the harm?" Apparently it's not to uncommon for college students.

Would your morals let you do this?

Deny it all they can,but no denying it ,be they male/ female all brassers ,know of several married women who are the exact same

Sile Na Gig

I’m far too scruffy for that kind of carry on.

Also, I’ve never heard the term sugar baby before, it sounds gross. The whole concept makes me go ick but if it works for some people then more power to them. It feels kind of exploitative, for both parties, but if they’re going into it with their eyes open, of their own volition then who are we to judge.

Sile Na Gig

I’m far too scruffy for that kind of carry on.

Also, I’ve never heard the term sugar baby before, it sounds gross. The whole concept makes me go ick but if it works for some people then more power to them. It feels kind of exploitative, for both parties, but if they’re going into it with their eyes open, of their own volition then who are we to judge.

onlyonpaper

Where does these arrangements sit with our new law about it being a criminal offence to pay for sex. Seems to me if you are rich etc the women are called sugar babes and everything is ok but if you are poor/lonely etc you are leaving yourself open to being charged with criminal offence.

I thought the law didn't differentiate re paying for sex and surprised no one has raised it on this thread

erudec

onlyonpaper wrote: »

Where does these arrangements sit with our new law about it being a criminal offence to pay for sex. Seems to me if you are rich etc the women are called sugar babes and everything is ok but if you are poor/lonely etc you are leaving yourself open to being charged with criminal offence.

I thought the law didn't differentiate re paying for sex and surprised no one has raised it on this thread

So are gardaí going to be raiding all the massage parlours where there's certainly a lot of illegal activity going on?

I think it's disgusting that the state is interfering with the sex lives of consenting adults. The only state involvement I can accept is disease screening and ensuring that they pay their taxes, just like restaurants and hotels.

Also, if either the client or the prostitute is mentally impaired to the point where they can't consent or understand the risks, the state has some right to intervene.

Anything else and the nanny state needs to sod off out of people's consensual bedroom activity.

meeeeh

erudec wrote: »

So are gardaí going to be raiding all the massage parlours where there's certainly a lot of illegal activity going on?

I think it's disgusting that the state is interfering with the sex lives of consenting adults. The only state involvement I can accept is disease screening and ensuring that they pay their taxes, just like restaurants and hotels.

Also, if either the client or the prostitute is mentally impaired to the point where they can't consent or understand the risks, the state has some right to intervene.

Anything else and the nanny state needs to sod off out of people's consensual bedroom activity.

You are assuming all prostitution is consensual. It is not and victims can be even children. I am not a fan of prosecuting men for accessing prostitutes as it is the law in Ireland (unless there are some other serious issues). However it is ridiculous to pretend that women and children are not trafficked against their will, often their documents taken away and that the whole thing is always just one happy consensual business transaction.

Sile Na Gig

meeeeh wrote: »

erudec wrote: »

So are gardaí going to be raiding all the massage parlours where there's certainly a lot of illegal activity going on?

I think it's disgusting that the state is interfering with the sex lives of consenting adults. The only state involvement I can accept is disease screening and ensuring that they pay their taxes, just like restaurants and hotels.

Also, if either the client or the prostitute is mentally impaired to the point where they can't consent or understand the risks, the state has some right to intervene.

Anything else and the nanny state needs to sod off out of people's consensual bedroom activity.

You are assuming all prostitution is consensual. It is not and victims can be even children. I am not a fan of prosecuting men for accessing prostitutes as it is the law in Ireland (unless there are some other serious issues). However it is ridiculous to pretend that women and children are not trafficked against their will, often their documents taken away and that the whole thing is always just one happy consensual business transaction.

This.

I’d be in favour of decriminalisation and regulation but this episode of the women’s podcast made me think again about sex work in Ireland.

https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/the-irish-times/the-womens-podcast/e/53522221?autoplay=true

onlyonpaper

Sile Na Gig wrote: »

This.

I’d be in favour of decriminalisation and regulation but this episode of the women’s podcast made me think again about sex work in Ireland.

https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/the-irish-times/the-womens-podcast/e/53522221?autoplay=true

Sorry; Cant open your attachment. You might indicate the jist of the content please

Whispered

Personally no. But I see nothing wrong with what two people decide works for them at any particular stage of their lives. So long as both know what's happening and both are safe then I see nothing wrong with it at all.

ted1

erudec wrote: »

onlyonpaper wrote: »

Where does these arrangements sit with our new law about it being a criminal offence to pay for sex. Seems to me if you are rich etc the women are called sugar babes and everything is ok but if you are poor/lonely etc you are leaving yourself open to being charged with criminal offence.

I thought the law didn't differentiate re paying for sex and surprised no one has raised it on this thread

So are gardaí going to be raiding all the massage parlours where there's certainly a lot of illegal activity going on?

I think it's disgusting that the state is interfering with the sex lives of consenting adults. The only state involvement I can accept is disease screening and ensuring that they pay their taxes, just like restaurants and hotels.

Also, if either the client or the prostitute is mentally impaired to the point where they can't consent or understand the risks, the state has some right to intervene.

Anything else and the nanny state needs to sod off out of people's consensual bedroom activity.

So you have no issue with the trafficking of girls to force them to work as sex slaves as long as they pay tax ?

Sile Na Gig

onlyonpaper wrote: »

Sile Na Gig wrote: »

This.

I’d be in favour of decriminalisation and regulation but this episode of the women’s podcast made me think again about sex work in Ireland.

https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/the-irish-times/the-womens-podcast/e/53522221?autoplay=true

Sorry; Cant open your attachment. You might indicate the jist of the content please

Oh sorry, it’s episode 195, here’s the blurb:

Rachel Moran is a sex trade survivor, the founder of SPACE International and best-selling author of Paid For: My Journey Through Prostitution. She talks to Kathy Sheridan about her escape from prostitution, the law, feminism and how she never met a "happy hooker" when she was on the game.

Sile Na Gig

Whispered wrote: »

Personally no. But I see nothing wrong with what two people decide works for them at any particular stage of their lives. So long as both know what's happening and both are safe then I see nothing wrong with it at all.

That’s why it needs to be regulated instead of swept under the carpet like most of the stuff we don’t want to think about.

Odelay

ted1 wrote: »

So you have no issue with the trafficking of girls to force them to work as sex slaves as long as they pay tax ?

Did you read the post? Did you not notice the word consent? Because it's in the post I'm reading.

meeeeh

Odelay wrote: »

Did you read the post? Did you not notice the word consent? Because it's in the post I'm reading.

Yes the consenting adults are mentioned but how do you know all protutes in massage parlour are consenting and not victims of trafficking. While I don't think author of that post approves of forced prostitution I think outrage at state trying to interfere was misguided.

There are plenty of premises accross the country where people know prostitution is happening. And they go on without much interference from anyone. The raids which end up reported in media are usually in larger brothels and often involve appalling treatment of mostly women. It's very easy to get outraged but this is not about state interfering into people's personal lives it's about preventing suffering of those who are forced into it.

ted1

Odelay wrote: »

ted1 wrote: »

So you have no issue with the trafficking of girls to force them to work as sex slaves as long as they pay tax ?

Did you read the post? Did you not notice the word consent? Because it's in the post I'm reading.

I did. I also read
“The only state involvement I can accept is disease screening and ensuring that they pay their taxes, just like restaurants and hotels. ”

So nothing about the state ensuring consent. Often trafficed girls will give consent because behind closed doors there’s a trafficker forcing them

Odelay

ted1 wrote: »

I did. I also read
“The only state involvement I can accept is disease screening and ensuring that they pay their taxes, just like restaurants and hotels. ”

So nothing about the state ensuring consent. Often trafficed girls will give consent because behind closed doors there’s a trafficker forcing them

I think it can be fair to read from the post, that the poster was not in favour of trafficking. Forced consent is not consent.
Where the poster mentioned restraints and hotels, I'm sure they did bit mean they would be happy with them complying with food safety rules, paying taxes but using trafficked slaves as labour.
Anyhow, we're going off topic.

erudec

meeeeh wrote: »

You are assuming all prostitution is consensual. It is not and victims can be even children. I am not a fan of prosecuting men for accessing prostitutes as it is the law in Ireland (unless there are some other serious issues). However it is ridiculous to pretend that women and children are not trafficked against their will, often their documents taken away and that the whole thing is always just one happy consensual business transaction.

Well that should be prosecuted under the longstanding laws against false imprisonment and violating the age of consent.

erudec

ted1 wrote: »

I did. I also read
“The only state involvement I can accept is disease screening and ensuring that they pay their taxes, just like restaurants and hotels. ”

So nothing about the state ensuring consent. Often trafficed girls will give consent because behind closed doors there’s a trafficker forcing them

If there's underage people being held, do you really think a half-decent human being would hesitate to report it to the guards?

Do you think so little of men that they would turn a blind eye to child sex slavery when they go to a brothel and see a kid being prostituted?

If a brothel was doing that, how would they survive long before several clients had reported them to the guards?

Or do you think that only heartless psychopaths get their little urges? I think that most men are not monsters, and the few who are would hardly be able to keep a child sex slavery ring profitable.

Anyone getting caught would face decades in Mountjoy, so it's extremely doubtful that many people would take the risk.

As for adult prostitutes, it would be very easy to ensure that their passports are not being held by anyone who shouldn't. We already have strong laws protecting all workers. Indentured servitude is illegal and I'd have no problem with the guards keeping a close eye on the industry to ensure nobody is being victimized.

erudec

double post

erudec

meeeeh wrote: »

Yes the consenting adults are mentioned but how do you know all protutes in massage parlour are consenting and not victims of trafficking. While I don't think author of that post approves of forced prostitution I think outrage at state trying to interfere was misguided.

There are plenty of premises accross the country where people know prostitution is happening. And they go on without much interference from anyone. The raids which end up reported in media are usually in larger brothels and often involve appalling treatment of mostly women. It's very easy to get outraged but this is not about state interfering into people's personal lives it's about preventing suffering of those who are forced into it.

This came up a decade ago if I recall.

The usual suspects claimed that all women in prostitution were basically Roman sex slaves. The guards put on a huge series of raids, and hired dozens of Eastern European interpreters to "rescue" the poor slaves.

Every single one said "my passport is at home" or she had it in her bag. These were 100% willing, consenting women well over the age.

It was all a myth then, so what's changed to make the myth true today?

If you have evidence to demonstrate that it's not a myth, here in Ireland, can we see it, please?

Common sense says that something that was proven totally false ten years ago is probably also false today.

ted1

erudec wrote: »

ted1 wrote: »

I did. I also read
“The only state involvement I can accept is disease screening and ensuring that they pay their taxes, just like restaurants and hotels. ”

So nothing about the state ensuring consent. Often trafficed girls will give consent because behind closed doors there’s a trafficker forcing them

If there's underage people being held, do you really think a half-decent human being would hesitate to report it to the guards?

Do you think so little of men that they would turn a blind eye to child sex slavery when they go to a brothel and see a kid being prostituted?

If a brothel was doing that, how would they survive long before several clients had reported them to the guards?

Or do you think that only heartless psychopaths get their little urges? I think that most men are not monsters, and the few who are would hardly be able to keep a child sex slavery ring profitable.

Anyone getting caught would face decades in Mountjoy, so it's extremely doubtful that many people would take the risk.

As for adult prostitutes, it would be very easy to ensure that their passports are not being held by anyone who shouldn't. We already have strong laws protecting all workers. Indentured servitude is illegal and I'd have no problem with the guards keeping a close eye on the industry to ensure nobody is being victimized.

Em this is kind of embarrassing because I never mentioned underage or child sex spaces and your rant is all about that

skallywag

ted1 wrote: »

Em this is kind of embarrassing because I never mentioned underage or child sex spaces and your rant is all about that

I'm also lost here to be honest.

@Erudec, how are you making a connection to underage girls?

erudec

skallywag wrote: »

I'm also lost here to be honest.

@Erudec, how are you making a connection to underage girls?

Well, doubt was being cast on the idea that they are consenting adults.

But hey, if we're all agreed that child sex trafficking isn't a thing in Ireland we can focus on why we assume with no evidence whatever that rape kidnapping of adults is a common event.

Holding a person against their will by keeping their passports is an extremely serious crime. Any guard who isn't a cartoon villain would prosecute anyone who did that to the fullest extent of the law.

(There's also the fact that if a criminal takes your passport and doesn't give it back to you on request, don't you just get on a bus to Ballsbridge, stroll into your embassy and tell them you were robbed and need a new passport? Also don't you just go to a police station and ask for an appointment with an interpreter in your native language, like the gardaí do every day on a routine basis, and spill the beans? Aren't you aware that all European police forces use interpreters extensively nowadays? )

erudec

ted1 wrote: »

. Often trafficed girls will give consent because behind closed doors there’s a trafficker forcing them

Oh, so not only do you have evidence that this happens in Ireland, but you also have evidence that it happens often.

I certainly am most curious to see the evidence supporting these claims!

meeeeh

erudec wrote: »

(There's also the fact that if a criminal takes your passport and doesn't give it back to you on request, don't you just get on a bus to Ballsbridge, stroll into your embassy and tell them you were robbed and need a new passport? Also don't you just go to a police station and ask for an appointment with an interpreter in your native language, like the gardaí do every day on a routine basis, and spill the beans? Aren't you aware that all European police forces use interpreters extensively nowadays? )

There is nothing grey in erudec world, it's all black and white. Those in poverty or gripped by addiction have a lot less choice. Often they don't speak the language, they don't know where support is. They could be more vulnerable, less educated, naive and more ignorant about their options.

As for stats Ruhama publishes their reports but I don't think you will believe them so there is no point posting links.

ted1

She should read this: https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.rsvplive.ie/news/irish-news/sex-slave-worker-ireland-trafficking-12546783.amp

erudec

meeeeh wrote: »

There is nothing grey in erudec world, it's all black and white. Those in poverty or gripped by addiction have a lot less choice. Often they don't speak the language, they don't know where support is. They could be more vulnerable, less educated, naive and more ignorant about their options.

As for stats Ruhama publishes their reports but I don't think you will believe them so there is no point posting links.

What language do you think the Gardaí won't get an interpreter for? Hint: maybe a language with only 40 speakers on earth. For any of the top 50 global languages and all officially recognized European languages, they will get an interpreter.

Also, we all saw the numerous lies Ruhama were caught telling in the recent criminalization of consensual sex controversy, so why would their stats have the faintest credibility?

meeeeh

erudec wrote: »

What language do you think the Gardaí won't get an interpreter for? Hint: maybe a language with only 40 speakers on earth. For any of the top 50 global languages and all officially recognized European languages, they will get an interpreter.

Also, we all saw the numerous lies Ruhama were caught telling in the recent criminalization of consensual sex controversy, so why would their stats have the faintest credibility?

So predictable. I'm not going to bite sorry.

meeeeh

For anyone who is in doubt should listen today's Pat Kenny show. It's a harrowing account of sex slavery.

Pat Mustard

nigel_wilson wrote: »

They vehemently deny that they're prostitutes and say, "if it can pay for school and luxuries, what's the harm?" Apparently it's not to uncommon for college students.

That's grand so. :pac:

Very common in South East Asia btw. Loads of instances of white middle-aged (mainly english-speaking) Western men with 20 year old Vietnamese girlfriends, who know each other for all of 10 days or fewer.

I remember going into a nightclub in Cambodia with a number of other backpacker types, male and female. It was a legitimate nightclub, advertised in the Lonely Planet Guide, I think. There were Cambodian women there who were looking to pick up Western men for the whole girlfriend experience. From their style of dress and manner of approach, they were indistinguishable from hookers.

erudec

meeeeh wrote: »

For anyone who is in doubt should listen today's Pat Kenny show. It's a harrowing account of sex slavery.

I'm more interested in harrowing evidence. If there's no evidence and just account, what do you expect me to do, believe it blindly?

meeeeh

erudec wrote: »

I'm more interested in harrowing evidence. If there's no evidence and just account, what do you expect me to do, believe it blindly?

Well psni and northern Irish and Swedish courts thought her account and accounts of others were credible enough to jail the couple. But no you don't have to believe anything since apparently traffic doesn't exist because you say so. (Btw how blind do you think me to be to believe you without any proof).

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

"Havocscope indicated that prostitution revenue can be estimated at around $186.00 billion per year worldwide. According to a report published in 2012 by Fondation Scelles, prostitution has a global dimension, involving around 40-42 million people worldwide, of which 90% are dependent on a procurer. 75% of them are between 13 and 25 years old.
The most conservative official statistics suggest that 1 in 7 prostitutes in Europe are victims of trafficking, while some Member States estimate that between 60% and 90% of those in their respective national prostitution markets have been trafficked. Moreover, the data available confirm that most trafficking in Europe is for the purposes of sexual exploitation, principally of women and girls."

Since the late 1990s, some Member States, like the Netherlands and Germany,introduced new legislation to legalise prostitution and to enable prostitutes to work as service providers (known as the regulatory approach). The access of prostitutes to social security systems and their registration as tax payers should enhance the social recognition of “sex workers” and reduce the vulnerability of prostitutes to exploitation. Several studies made in recent years suggest, indeed, that the legislation on prostitution increases the flow
of trafficking for sexual exploitation, while the working conditions of prostitutes and the level of violence have not improved – according to government reports. On the other hand, the abolitionist approach, which is based on the criminalization of all activities related to prostitution, has been adopted in Spain and Sweden but with abdifferent focus. It seems that the Swedish legislation, which targets the buyer (mostly men) and thus criminalises the demand side instead of the prostitutes themselves, is the
only one which successfully criminalises men buying women. According to official evaluations, this seems to have effectively reduced demand and deterred traffickers.

Over the years I've moved from "ah shur what's the harm", to "this is awful, but wouldn't decriminalisation help?" to "fcuk this".

Link to source

erudec

meeeeh wrote: »

Well psni and northern Irish and Swedish courts thought her account and accounts of others were credible enough to jail the couple. But no you don't have to believe anything since apparently traffic doesn't exist because you say so. (Btw how blind do you think me to be to believe you without any proof).

Okay, a couple committed a horrible crime against a woman, the police intervened and jailed the couple. The system worked.

I will of course point out that Swedish police would've sought to jail people even if the woman was completely willing, because Swedish law bans consensual sex for pay and is sexist enough to only enact punishment on one party to the consensual sex.

erudec

Louis Limited Somehow wrote: »

Over the years I've moved from "ah shur what's the harm", to "this is awful, but wouldn't decriminalisation help?" to "fcuk this".

Link to source

Define sexual exploitation.

If a prostitute rents a flat to operate from, dishonest ideologues claim her landlord is exploiting her need for a premises.

It's weasel words at its finest. There is evidence that certain religious subcultures do in fact systematically exploit girls in an organised manner. The Rotherham scandal is an example. It's been discussed a great deal on Twitter in recent weeks.

Nobody is denying that happens, but it is dishonest as hell to conflate that with people over the age of consent who have consciously decided to take part in trading consensual sex for money.

Provide evidence that apart from child grooming gangs within religious subcultures which appear to operate across Europe, there is evidence for widespread systematic non-consensual sex between prostitutes and clients, or evidence of brothels systematically exploiting pre-pubescent women.

We know that ideological nuts who have been indoctrinated by women's studies courses lie all the time, about virtually everything they discuss. They are almost always the source of all these scare stories. They are so lacking in credibility that they cannot be entirely trusted even when they tell you up is not down.

So evidence for your scary claims of widespread exploitation in the legal sex industry, please, and a crisp, clear definition of the line between acceptable prostitution and sexual exploitation.

If you cannot provide same, your words are indefensible and every clear thinking person needs to disregard them.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

The link's right there in the post, 13 pages of references, go mad.

meeeeh

Louis Limited Somehow wrote: »

The link's right there in the post, 13 pages of references, go mad.

Don't bother. Only time erudec would consider any evidence as valid is when involves Muslim gangs. The rest is hysterical, dishonest leftists trying to destroy perfectly legitimate business.