Limerick Transport

marno21

Unsurprisingly, big haul for the Gardai this morning on the inbound bus lane approaching the Milford Road/Golf Links Road junction on the Dublin Road.

https://twitter.com/GardaTraffic/status/991632966584594432

h3000

marno21 wrote: »

Unsurprisingly, big haul for the Gardai this morning on the inbound bus lane approaching the Milford Road/Golf Links Road junction on the Dublin Road.

https://twitter.com/GardaTraffic/status/991632966584594432[/uxxrl]

I'm suprised they are not there more. I always continue down the main public lane and join the left lane when the bus lane ends. I nearly always get people complaining at me for skipping the queue. I actually feel a bit guilty doing it even though I'm using the lanes correctly.

keane2097

Hard to believe such a thing exists as a 'Limerick Roads Policing Unit' when you see the absolute state of William Street and others every day.

Berty

I can understand the Gardai doing that if people are driving down the bus lane but in rush hour people would be actually stopped in a long queue in that lane.

marno21

Berty wrote: »

I can understand the Gardai doing that if people are driving down the bus lane but in rush hour people would be actually stopped in a long queue in that lane.

The reason the bus lane goes so far up as far as the junction is so the bus can "bypass" that queue. If it's regularly enforced it'll have a good effect on bus times

diusmr8a504cvk

Good to see that the section of South Circular Road has become solely one-way, was a pain beforehand. Although I'd argue that Wolfe Tone Street is worse. - Limerick Leader Article.

Also lads, there's a house on Edward Street that seems to have a lot of misfortunes hanging around it in the evening/night-time, is a shelter of sorts? It's the second door from the left in this Google Maps Screenshot.

Wise Old Elf

I agree with the change on SCRd but they really could do with reducing some of the on street parking on St Gerard St as well, there's going to be a bit more traffic on it turning right at Bobby's after this is implemented and even now if there's any kind of build up, it's mayhem.

Berty

I agree with that short one way system but I don't have school going children so won't be adversely affected by it. The impact on the traffic lights at Bobby Byrnes is going to be immense at school times/rush hour now.

I've been caught a few times with cars coming towards me when I've had right of way so it can be quite annoying and I'd hate to park along there as well, lot's of scuffed cars or bent back wing mirrors I'd say.

damowill

Wise Old Elf wrote: »

I agree with the change on SCRd but they really could do with reducing some of the on street parking on St Gerard St as well, there's going to be a bit more traffic on it turning right at Bobby's after this is implemented and even now if there's any kind of build up, it's mayhem.

St Gerard Street should be one way as well. Parking there is a disgrace.

Wolfe tone and St Josephs street should also be one way with Speed bumps added. The speed of which cars fly up and down Wolfe tone is crazy. Im amazed nobody has been killed or injured.

zulutango

Since 2013 the Council are legally required to give priority to bikes and pedestrians on streets below 60kph. Putting in car-centric traffic systems, such as one-ways, is in breach of that.

phog

Ember Hollow Somewhere wrote: »

Good to see that the section of South Circular Road has become solely one-way, was a pain beforehand. [/URL]

Should have been done years ago

source

The issue with making Wolfe Tone St and Joseph’s St one way is their length and how far around people will need to go to get to the other end. Bowman St is the only street which links the two along their length, and that’s very close to the O’Connell Ave end of the streets.

I think complete one way systems work well when the blocks are short and there isn’t a long drive get back to the start of the street. In the case of Wolfe Tone St and Joseph’s St there would be a very long drive to get back to where you started. You also need to consider how much extra traffic would be forced to join a single point on Edward St and O’Connell Ave, both of which already see heavy traffic and tailbacks at peak times.

I completely agree that it would be safer for all road users if they were one way however, I see every weekend on South Circular Road people who are dropping their children to Clements or Laurel Hill for sports going the wrong way from Quin St to Laurel Hill Avenue. Purely because they couldn’t be bothered going up as far as New Street and coming back in the road the correct way.

source

zulutango wrote: »

Since 2013 the Council are legally required to give priority to bikes and pedestrians on streets below 60kph. Putting in car-centric traffic systems, such as one-ways, is in breach of that.

They have also improved the footpath along the street, and i would argue that one way streets are safer for pedestrians as in theory they only need to worry about traffic coming from one direction when crossing.

geotrig

zulutango wrote: »

Since 2013 the Council are legally required to give priority to bikes and pedestrians on streets below 60kph. Putting in car-centric traffic systems, such as one-ways, is in breach of that.

does this not help cyclists on this stretch? Less traffic so more room to cycle ?

I dont see it impactinig the greater area ,even gerard st that much to be honest.

zulutango

source wrote: »

They have also improved the footpath along the street, and i would argue that one way streets are safer for pedestrians as in theory they only need to worry about traffic coming from one direction when crossing.

There's no huge impact of the changes in the SCR but they're a step in the wrong direction. Limerick Council is in the dark ages when it comes to the design of streets. Well, the dark ages is a bit of an exaggeration. They're about 30 years behind. They see their ultimate responsibility as designing them so that traffic can move more freely because they see this as enabling more people to move through the city and into and out of it more easily. For many people (such as the folks in the Council), that is logically a good thing, but it's actually an approach that is fundamentally flawed and it even flies in the face of even the Irish design standards. What they're effectively doing is making it easier and more appealing to live a car-dependent life in the suburbs and beyond and harder and less appealing to live in the city. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that that's not good for Limerick in the long term, and actually many of the difficulties Limerick and other Irish cities have at the moment are linked to about five decades of applying this flawed strategy. It's why there was a fundamental overhaul of the design standards in 2013 and these say that local authorities should design streets for the needs of pedestrians and cyclists first and foremost. In Limerick Council they clearly didn't get the memo, or are ignoring it, because what they're doing on SCR is in breach of those standards.

Vladimir Poontang

What do you expect from the council. They'd need a three day junket with expenses just to investigate if John Gilligan is secretly moonlighting as the Burger King

source

zulutango wrote: »

There's no huge impact of the changes in the SCR but they're a step in the wrong direction. Limerick Council is in the dark ages when it comes to the design of streets. Well, the dark ages is a bit of an exaggeration. They're about 30 years behind. They see their ultimate responsibility as designing them so that traffic can move more freely because they see this as enabling more people to move through the city and into and out of it more easily. For many people (such as the folks in the Council), that is logically a good thing, but it's actually an approach that is fundamentally flawed and it even flies in the face of even the Irish design standards. What they're effectively doing is making it easier and more appealing to live a car-dependent life in the suburbs and beyond and harder and less appealing to live in the city. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that that's not good for Limerick in the long term, and actually many of the difficulties Limerick and other Irish cities have at the moment are linked to about five decades of applying this flawed strategy. It's why there was a fundamental overhaul of the design standards in 2013 and these say that local authorities should design streets for the needs of pedestrians and cyclists first and foremost. In Limerick Council they clearly didn't get the memo, or are ignoring it, because what they're doing on SCR is in breach of those standards.

Zulu, your pro pedestrian and public transport stance is well documented, and to a certain extent I agree with you that we as a country and as a city are heavily car dependent. This, in my opinion is not due to the road design, it is due to lack of basic provisions for other modes of transport, and services.

We have a very small, poorly serviced and overpriced bus service, it costs more for me to take the bus into town for 2 hours than it would to drive and park in the city centre, that shouldn’t be the case. Bus Eireann and indeed Irish Rail have a ridiculous policy of punishing their current passengers for low user numbers by raising prices, rather than lowering prices to draw people to the service. People are also often left stranded as they cannot rely on the bus to turn up as scheduled, so can’t rely on them for appointments or meetings, making the care the better option.

I personally walk to work every day, thankfully I am able to as I live close enough to where I work, I am also lucky to not be in the position of having to drop my kids to crèche or preschool every morning. My next door neighbour works 2 blocks from my office but drives to work every day as the crèche they got their child into is in Mungret (closer ones were full so it’s not by choice). It is physically impossible for him to get his child to crèche and back to work before 9 without driving. There are a lot more people in his shoes than mine.

School enrolment policies which give preference to whether water was splashed on your head as baby rather than where you are living is another issue which causes larger traffic volumes, as is the policy of past pupils getting places. If kids could get into their local school rather than having to travel, then there would be much less car dependence. Why don’t they get the bus you will surely say … see previous point.

Location of employment and industry is another reason for car dependency. We are all aware from multiple threads in this very forum that there is limited employment opportunity in the city, which forces people to work in areas where public transport either does not go, or using public transport would mean a considerably longer journey with changes and greater cost. Try to get from Caherdavin to Raheen Industrial Estate using just public transport, you’re talking about a journey of about 45 minutes to an hour (if the bus turns up), 2 busses and 2 bus fares. It’s just not feasible.

There are a lot of things that the government and the council can do to help this, but making the roads less car friendly is not one of them, or at least should not be the first step in fixing the problem. There is a lot which need to be done first to reduce car dependency, before you make it next to impossible to actually drive around the city.

I would be of the opinion that the city centre is in fact very pedestrian friendly. Most streets are one way, which makes crossing the unsignalled junctions easier, unsignalled junctions are also rare in the city centre, they do appear more frequently the further out you go though. One way also means you have to only contend with traffic coming from a single direction, and every block in the centre proper has pedestrian lights. Very few people are knocked down in the city centre, and those that are tend to be crossing away from the designated crossing points. The footpaths are also wide and for the most part have good surfaces.

I’m sure you’ll be of the opinion that there should be more pedestrian crossings rather than light controlled junctions in the city centre, however seeing how people in this city ignore the ones that are there currently in favour of crossing halfway along a block I honestly don’t see the benefit bar frustrating drivers and the flow of traffic.

zulutango

I don't think we're too far apart in our views. I agree with your points about public transport. We could have great bus lanes everywhere and Bus Eireann could still provide a bad service. But they sure as hell won't provide a good service if there isn't decent bus infrastructure (which there isn't).

Limerick is a very car-friendly city. We have the lowest congestion of any city in Ireland. Our car dependence is linked to the fact that it's pretty easy to drive around Limerick, as compared to other cities. If we want to make Limerick less car-dependent, then we have to make it less appealing to use or own a car. Parking charges should be increased and streets should be designed to give priority to more beneficial modes of transport (as the design standards require). Pedestrians, bikes and busses should have priority over private cars. 39% of all car journeys taken are less than 3km. 14% are less than 1km. These are easily cyclable and walkable, but we don't walk or cycle because it's so easy to drive.

I don't think we should make overnight changes to make it impossible to drive around the city. But we should make gradual steps in the right direction. Instead we're making gradual steps in the wrong direction. The SCR is an example of that. At some point we have to grasp the nettle and start to incentivise lifestyles that are beneficial for ourselves and the city in the long run rather than the short term. We will all have our own ideas about what works and what doesn't work, but the design standards are pretty good and they've been developed by highly qualified urban designers. We really should stick to them (we're legally obliged to in fact).

LeoD

source wrote: »

There are a lot of things that the government and the council can do to help this, but making the roads less car friendly is not one of them, or at least should not be the first step in fixing the problem. There is a lot which need to be done first to reduce car dependency, before you make it next to impossible to actually drive around the city.

I won't quote your entire post but I would disagree with your point that the government should fix other issues before tackling the problem of motor traffic. Yes, the problem of urban sprawl and a lifeless city centre won't be cured alone by making streets less car friendly but by continuing to prioritise motor traffic over everyone else, we are making our streets and city a less attractive place to spend time in. If the city is not an attractive place to be, people won't want to live there. If people don't live there, businesses can't survive and public services such as schools and hospitals will be built elsewhere (or in the case of Mungret, where the people haven't moved to yet but LCCC will get around to resolving that in jig time no doubt). We build everywhere because we can drive everywhere. We drive everywhere because we can build everywhere. We simply cannot continue to do this. Reducing private car volume and priority in the city won't make Limerick great in the morning but it would be a start. How can we ever hope to improve the quality of our public transport if we are unwilling to take any road space away from cars and give it to buses, or any other sustainable mode of transport? We can't expect to be handed an attractive & vibrant city serviced by a highly efficient public transport system before we decide to finally give up on our cars. The authorities also need to address their dysfunctional approach to planning but all these things need to happen in parallel. One thing that could be done in the morning is cutting back on the amount of on-street parking. People could still move as they do today but if we started to remove all the private property being stored on public road space, we could start to free up some space for other modes of transport which should help make them a more attractive proposition to use than a car for some people.

zulutango

LeoD wrote: »

We build everywhere because we can drive everywhere. We drive everywhere because we can build everywhere. We simply cannot continue to do this.

That is very succinctly put.

More roads creates more low density development which creates more car dependency which creates more roads, which creates more low density development, which creates more car dependency .... ad nauseum.

It's a toxic circle and the way to break it is to stop the car-centric development.

source

zulutango wrote: »

That is very succinctly put.

More roads creates more low density development which creates more car dependency which creates more roads, which creates more low density development, which creates more car dependency .... ad nauseum.

It's a toxic circle and the way to break it is to stop the car-centric development.

Ah but my point isn't to create more roads, my point is that we should avoid destroying the roads we have either through removal, pedestrianisation or traffic calming whole there is no viable alternative in place.

zulutango

How do you define viable alternative? I'd argue that there's plenty of alternatives. Walk, cycle, drive slower. They're all viable options.

JamesBond2010

LeoD wrote: »

I won't quote your entire post but I would disagree with your point that the government should fix other issues before tackling the problem of motor traffic. Yes, the problem of urban sprawl and a lifeless city centre won't be cured alone by making streets less car friendly but by continuing to prioritise motor traffic over everyone else, we are making our streets and city a less attractive place to spend time in. If the city is not an attractive place to be, people won't want to live there. If people don't live there, businesses can't survive and public services such as schools and hospitals will be built elsewhere (or in the case of Mungret, where the people haven't moved to yet but LCCC will get around to resolving that in jig time no doubt). We build everywhere because we can drive everywhere. We drive everywhere because we can build everywhere. We simply cannot continue to do this. Reducing private car volume and priority in the city won't make Limerick great in the morning but it would be a start. How can we ever hope to improve the quality of our public transport if we are unwilling to take any road space away from cars and give it to buses, or any other sustainable mode of transport? We can't expect to be handed an attractive & vibrant city serviced by a highly efficient public transport system before we decide to finally give up on our cars. The authorities also need to address their dysfunctional approach to planning but all these things need to happen in parallel. One thing that could be done in the morning is cutting back on the amount of on-street parking. People could still move as they do today but if we started to remove all the private property being stored on public road space, we could start to free up some space for other modes of transport which should help make them a more attractive proposition to use than a car for some people.

Then u might end up with something again like the disaster that is the ballinacurra bus lane. Where the road is too narrow for 3 lanes & if u meet a cyclist outbound & the road is busy inbound u are screwed cause u cannot pass him safely.Never mind when too large vehicles pass each other.

marno21

zulutango wrote: »

How do you define viable alternative? I'd argue that there's plenty of alternatives. Walk, cycle, drive slower. They're all viable options.

There is no viable route from Dooradoyle to Corbally without driving through the city centre. That's a major issue if we are still using the city centre as a thoroughfare. It's the same on the northside of Cork and in Galway. If there is no relief/orbital/distributor route it's difficult to remove cars.

JamesBond2010

marno21 wrote: »

There is no viable route from Dooradoyle to Corbally without driving through the city centre. That's a major issue if we are still using the city centre as a thoroughfare. It's the same on the northside of Cork and in Galway. If there is no relief/orbital/distributor route it's difficult to remove cars.

ya you are right the only other option is up by roxboro garda station & down by firestation & by the bridge by absolute hotel.Which is longer & waste of time during rush hour.

zulutango

marno21 wrote:

There is no viable route from Dooradoyle to Corbally without driving through the city centre. That's a major issue if we are still using the city centre as a thoroughfare. It's the same on the northside of Cork and in Galway. If there is no relief/orbital/distributor route it's difficult to remove cars.

What's your definition of viable? I can suggest plenty of routes that I'd consider viable.

marno21

zulutango wrote: »

What's your definition of viable? I can suggest plenty of routes that I'd consider viable.

Can you outline specific ones so I can be specific in reply? And any using the tunnel will have the issue of people wanting to route via town to avoid the toll (which is currently facilitated by the ease of passage through the city centre, but any attempt to change this will likely result in a back lash similar to the Patrick Street mess in Cork)

zulutango

marno21 wrote:

Can you outline specific ones so I can be specific in reply? And any using the tunnel will have the issue of people wanting to route via town to avoid the toll (which is currently facilitated by the ease of passage through the city centre, but any attempt to change this will likely result in a back lash similar to the Patrick Street mess in Cork)

Corbally - Clare Street - Pennywell - etc

Corbally - Clare Street - Childers Road - etc

Corbally - Thomondgate - etc

You will get backlogs but that doesn't mean they're not viable routes.

phog

zulutango wrote: »

Corbally - Clare Street - Pennywell - etc

Corbally - Clare Street - Childers Road - etc

Corbally - Thomondgate - etc

You will get backlogs but that doesn't mean they're not viable routes.

Are you joking? They're a short term option if a disaster struck on O'Connell St or we have a St Patrick's Day parade or Granny Festival but they're not viable options for everyday use.

Basically Limerick was built on a river with 4 main roads leading into/out of the city. Until the city has a full circular route around it then we'll have traffic using the four routes from the junction at Debenhams.

zulutango

Can you please explain what you mean by viable?

marno21

zulutango wrote: »

Corbally - Clare Street - Pennywell - etc

Corbally - Clare Street - Childers Road - etc

Corbally - Thomondgate - etc

You will get backlogs but that doesn't mean they're not viable routes.

These routes are already congested at peak times, without adding more traffic to them. If the Clare Street route is via the Corbally link road, that route is signed as Local Traffic so if it became a signed route there would likely be objections, along with increased congestion at the two sets of traffic lights on Park Road and at Park Rd/Dublin Rd. The Dublin Road is congested enough along there without adding more traffic to the mess.

zulutango

The days of building roads because of congestion should be well behind us. We know that more roads beget more roads still. It's a never ending cycle and a policy that's being discarded. Instead of moving traffic from one place to another we should be eliminating traffic. Building more roads is the last thing we should be doing. Congestion in Limerick is lower than any other Irish city. We can afford to have a lot more congestion.

marno21

zulutango wrote: »

The days of building roads because of congestion should be well behind us. We know that more roads beget more roads still. It's a never ending cycle and a policy that's being discarded. Instead of moving traffic from one place to another we should be eliminating traffic. Building more roads is the last thing we should be doing. Congestion in Limerick is lower than any other Irish city. We can afford to have a lot more congestion.

I'm not talking about building roads because of congestion, or building roads to increase capacity. Build a new road and remove the same amount of roadspace available to cars within the centre. Same as what's planned with Galway, there will be a new ring road north of the city to remove through traffic, and the existing N6 will become a bus corridor.

phog

zulutango wrote: »

The days of building roads because of congestion should be well behind us. We know that more roads beget more roads still. It's a never ending cycle and a policy that's being discarded. Instead of moving traffic from one place to another we should be eliminating traffic. Building more roads is the last thing we should be doing. Congestion in Limerick is lower than any other Irish city. We can afford to have a lot more congestion.

You're close to being alone in wanting congestion.

zulutango

marno21 wrote:

I'm not talking about building roads because of congestion, or building roads to increase capacity. Build a new road and remove the same amount of roadspace available to cars within the centre. Same as what's planned with Galway, there will be a new ring road north of the city to remove through traffic, and the existing N6 will become a bus corridor.

How do you feel about traffic evaporation?

zulutango

phog wrote:

You're close to being alone in wanting congestion.

We're the least congested city in Ireland. Our existing roads can take a much higher capacity.

marno21

zulutango wrote: »

How do you feel about traffic evaporation?

I don't think traffic evaporation is a factor here, how are these people supposed to get to work? There isn't really any alternatives. Most of these journeys aren't leisurely trips for a stroll around town. It's not a suggestion to close down a freeway, these are the sole routes for these people.

zulutango wrote: »

We're the least congested city in Ireland. Our existing roads can take a much higher capacity.

The least congested city in Ireland because of a massive increase in road space in the 2000s which is rapidly filling due to ongoing sprawl and the fact that most people avoid town where possible due to the lack of activity in there. I live in Limerick and rarely drive through or near town. The only town/city where I do this.

zulutango

marno21 wrote:

I don't think traffic evaporation is a factor here, how are these people supposed to get to work? There isn't really any alternatives.

There are alternatives. I've pointed them out. It'll just take people longer.

LeoD

marno21 wrote: »

Build a new road and remove the same amount of roadspace available to cars within the centre.

They tried that in Dublin with a two lane motorway around the city. That soon filled up so they added another lane but that soon filled up. To ease congestion on this ring road, there are now proposals to build a ring road around the ring road that would come out as far as Navan. At this rate, there'll be a ring road around Dublin within touching distance of Limerick in around 50 years.

marno21

LeoD wrote: »

They tried that in Dublin with a two lane motorway around the city. That soon filled up so they added another lane but that soon filled up. To ease congestion on this ring road, there are now proposals to build a ring road around the ring road that would come out as far as Navan. At this rate, there'll be a ring road around Dublin within touching distance of Limerick in around 50 years.

That's not really true.

They built a 2 lane motorway around Dublin and then proceeded to build traffic magnets along it. Liffey Valley, Blanchardstown, Dundrum, Tallaght Square etc and a whole host of business parks including Sandyford, Citywest, Ballycoolin etc, with incredible car dependence in a lot of them.

There are no plans to build a second M50. TII have said that it will be of no benefit as 4% of journeys on the M50 are actually end to end so it would just be used as a vehicle for more sprawl. A second M50 is often raised by politicians who don't know what they are talking about.

Any proposal for a new orbital route would be as a protected road with no legally allowed development along it. A bit like what is proposed in Galway. Not a vehicle for creating sprawl.

LeoD

zulutango wrote: »

There are alternatives. I've pointed them out. It'll just take people longer.

You might even be quicker not going through the city according to the all knowledgeable Google if you want to get from Corbally to Raheen at 8:30am tomorrow morning.

LeoD

marno21 wrote: »

Any proposal for a new orbital route would be as a protected road with no legally allowed development along it. A bit like what is proposed in Galway. Not a vehicle for creating sprawl.

I've never heard of a protected road before but the Galway proposal will, with 100% certainty, encourage and result in further urban sprawl. How couldn't it? This is what happens every other orbital route has been built to alleviate traffic from city centres. And not only will we see developments grow up to the ring road from the inside, we will also see developments take hold on the outside - maybe not directly off the road as in the case of the M50, but 5-6kms away. Townlands that were once unattractive to live in due to their remoteness will find themselves within a few minutes drive of the new ring road and access to Galway city. This pattern has been repeated so often all over the world it's hard to believe that we still think it will be different the next time we try it.

Vanquished

All former National Primary Routes within the city centre have long been de-trunked. O'Connell Street used to be the N20, Sarsfield Street the N18, William Street was the N24 etc. All major national routes are intercepted by the Southern Ring Road. There is an extensive road network inside the Southern Ring that provides access to all areas within the city. I've never bought this nonsense that there are no viable cross city routes other than ploughing straight up O'Connell Street. Alternative options exist but too often there is reluctance to utilise them because it requires deviation from a preferred route and this may result in slight inconveniences to motorists etc. The blatant hypocrisy is that city centre residents and other road users such as cyclists, pedestrians etc are just expected to tolerate the inconveniences caused by incessant traffic trundling through the core commercial and residential streets.

We are not going to be able to effectively stimulate rejuvenation of the city centre without significant remodelling of the streetscape and that means reallocating space to people in general but also to more sustainable modes of transport. The status quo of decades of car dominance has not served the city centre well and change is long overdue or else it'll continue to stagnate.

To that end it's time to reconsider the traffic system in the city centre in order to divert traffic away from O'Connell Street. Henry Street in it's current arrangement is not being adequately utilised and a two way arrangement could be reintroduced here.

marno21

LeoD wrote: »

I've never heard of a protected road before but the Galway proposal will, with 100% certainty, encourage and result in further urban sprawl. How couldn't it? This is what happens every other orbital route has been built to alleviate traffic from city centres. And not only will we see developments grow up to the ring road from the inside, we will also see developments take hold on the outside - maybe not directly off the road as in the case of the M50, but 5-6kms away. Townlands that were once unattractive to live in due to their remoteness will find themselves within a few minutes drive of the new ring road and access to Galway city. This pattern has been repeated so often all over the world it's hard to believe that we still think it will be different the next time we try it.

Protected roads were in law before but were never built, now we are getting 3 of them:

Galway Ring Road from the N59 junction to Barna (the rest of it will be M6 - motorway, no development)
Limerick-Foynes from Rathkeale to Foynes (the rest of it will be M21 - motorway, no development)
Cork-Ringaskiddy from Barnhely to the Port (the rest will be M28 - motorway, no development)

TII, unlike the NRA before them, now have a policy of objecting to developments which cause detrimental effects on the national road network. There won't be giant estates going up just off the new M6 in Galway, especially given that the old N6 will become a bus corridor and will attract new development for that.

marno21

Vanquished wrote: »

All former National Primary Routes within the city centre have long been de-trunked. O'Connell Street used to be the N20, Sarsfield Street the N18, William Street was the N24 etc. All major national routes are intercepted by the Southern Ring Road. There is an extensive road network inside the Southern Ring that provides access to all areas within the city. I've never bought this nonsense that there are no viable cross city routes other than ploughing straight up O'Connell Street. Alternative options exist but too often there is reluctance to utilise them because it requires deviation from a preferred route and this may result in slight inconveniences to motorists etc. The blatant hypocrisy is that city centre residents and other road users such as cyclists, pedestrians etc are just expected to tolerate the inconveniences caused by incessant traffic trundling through the core commercial and residential streets.

We are not going to be able to effectively stimulate rejuvenation of the city centre without significant remodelling of the streetscape and that means reallocating space to people in general but also to more sustainable modes of transport. The status quo of decades of car dominance has not served the city centre well and change is long overdue or else it'll continue to stagnate.

To that end it's time to reconsider the traffic system in the city centre in order to divert traffic away from O'Connell Street. Henry Street in it's current arrangement is not being adequately utilised and a two way arrangement could be reintroduced here.

If you overlay Limerick city on a clock, there are no national roads entering Limerick between the 9 O Clock and 2 O Clock (not the most accurate) positions. There are 5 entering on the bottom half, 6 if you include the N21 which as part of the M20, which generates more traffic inbound than the N7 + N24

There are no national routes coming in from the north but that's not to say there's no traffic. There's less traffic in from the north due to the mountains but still enough.

zulutango

It's only a 30 minute cycle from Corbally to Raheen Industrial Estate. That's definitely an option for lots of folks who are currently driving. The idea that you have to route traffic through the centre of town because there's no alternatives is utterly bogus.

zulutango

marno21 wrote: »

Protected roads were in law before but were never built, now we are getting 3 of them:

Galway Ring Road from the N59 junction to Barna (the rest of it will be M6 - motorway, no development)
Limerick-Foynes from Rathkeale to Foynes (the rest of it will be M21 - motorway, no development)
Cork-Ringaskiddy from Barnhely to the Port (the rest will be M28 - motorway, no development)

TII, unlike the NRA before them, now have a policy of objecting to developments which cause detrimental effects on the national road network. There won't be giant estates going up just off the new M6 in Galway, especially given that the old N6 will become a bus corridor and will attract new development for that.

Do protected roads prevent development in townlands 5-6km away, as Leo points out? Have you any more info on protected roads?

jonski

zulutango wrote:

It's only a 30 minute cycle from Corbally to Raheen Industrial Estate. That's definitely an option for lots of folks who are currently driving. The idea that you have to route traffic through the centre of town because there's no alternatives is utterly bogus.

Did they put a roof over Limerick ?

RhubarbCrumble

jonski wrote: »

Did they put a roof over Limerick ?

We could certainly do with one this morning. Is everyone enjoying the 'summer'? :mad:

zulutango

jonski wrote: »

Did they put a roof over Limerick ?

We're not a whole lot different to Amsterdam in terms of rainfall. See below.

LeoD

marno21 wrote: »

Protected roads were in law before but were never built, now we are getting 3 of them:

Galway Ring Road from the N59 junction to Barna (the rest of it will be M6 - motorway, no development)
Limerick-Foynes from Rathkeale to Foynes (the rest of it will be M21 - motorway, no development)
Cork-Ringaskiddy from Barnhely to the Port (the rest will be M28 - motorway, no development)

TII, unlike the NRA before them, now have a policy of objecting to developments which cause detrimental effects on the national road network. There won't be giant estates going up just off the new M6 in Galway, especially given that the old N6 will become a bus corridor and will attract new development for that.

Sorry, and I am not trying to be funny or smart, but I am still none the wiser as to what a "protected road" is. There are numerous junctions on the proposed Galway ring road. These junctions contain roads that connect Galway city and county. How can you prevent new development from ever happening anywhere along these roads, or on roads that eventually connect to these roads? The same can be said for the other 2 roads.