The Sub 4 Support Thread

ewc78

Not to be for me today but a massive PB regardless.
I'm getting closer...maybe next year.

Hope everyone else met their goals.
What a brilliant atmosphere today, unreal.

smashiner

Race report:
Ole ole ole ole...ole ole ....ole:)

I finally have joined the Sub 4 Boardies club!! I ran a 'sensible' race on the day, first 10K at 57 minutes, Half at 1:59:40, kept it nice and easy until Fosters Avenue and to my complete surprise, I was able to put the boot down a bit and I finished at 3:58:20.

That was my 4th attempt at Sub 4 and I have to say that I would not have done it without the help of this thread.

Special shout out to Murph_D for the advice on 'running my LSR's too fast' a good few weeks ago. I took this on board and didn't get injured in the build up as normal and I went into the DCM with a 'shout' of breaking the 4 hours.

A negative split marathon.....something that I never thought that I could EVER do, I finished the last 5K at 5:30 per KM pace and a sub 5:00 pace for the last 500 metres.
I actually took the advice of a comment this week on the thread and I dropped back to Wave 3 and ran behind the 4 hour pacer. I actually got badly boxed in for the first Km at 6:15 and almost panicked when the 4:10 pace went past me, but I kept the head and settled into the rhythm.

A really good 2 week taper was key I feel this year and being nice and fresh on the start line.

Time to burn the Asics and take up Chess:D

Thanks for all the help lads!!

Murph_D

smashiner wrote: »

Race report:
Ole ole ole ole...ole ole ....ole:)

I finally have joined the Sub 4 Boardies club!! I ran a 'sensible' race on the day, first 10K at 57 minutes, Half at 1:59:40, kept it nice and easy until Fosters Avenue and to my complete surprise, I was able to put the boot down a bit and I finished at 3:58:20.

That was my 4th attempt at Sub 4 and I have to say that I would not have done it without the help of this thread.

Special shout out to Murph_D for the advice on 'running my LSR's too fast' a good few weeks ago. I took this on board and didn't get injured in the build up as normal and I went into the DCM with a 'shout' of breaking the 4 hours.

A negative split marathon.....something that I never thought that I could EVER do this, finished the last 5K at 5:30 per KM pace and a sub 5 pace for the last 500 metres.
I actually took the advice of a comment this week on the thread and I dropped back to Wave 3 and ran behind the 4 hour pacer. I actually got badly boxed in for the first Km at 6:15 and almost panicked when the 4:10 pace went past me, but I keep the head and settled into the rhythm.

A really good 2 week taper was key I feel this year and being nice adn fresh on the start line.

Time to burn the Asics and take up Chess:D

Thanks for all the help lads!!

Well done, sounds like you did everything right on the day, which is all we can ever ask of ourselves. Hearty congrats!

Murph_D

ewc78 wrote: »

Not to be for me today but a massive PB regardless.
I'm getting closer...maybe next year.

Hope everyone else met their goals.
What a brilliant atmosphere today, unreal.

I know it’s early, but might be really useful for others - and also yourself - to post about what went wrong. Hard luck - the conditions were certainly there for us all today.

ewc78

Murph_D wrote: »

I know it’s early, but might be really useful for others - and also yourself - to post about what went wrong. Hard luck - the conditions were certainly there for us all today.

Bad dose of cramping which cost me a bit as it was a walk jog to the finish line. Was borderline of making sub 4 at that stage.
I'm actually very happy with how it went, proves to me what a proper training block can do.
It's the first time I actually stuck to the training plan all the way.
Never cramp in training so it's hard to train yourself to deal with it or avoid it, or is it?
20 minute PB so I'm not complaining at all though

pc11

First marathon today.

I was bang on track for 4 hours all day pretty much. I went out very handy, maybe a little too handy, I dunno. At 12 miles I felt totally fresh, though at 15 miles I didn't feel quite so fresh any more. Halfway in 2:00:30 - perfect as I usually finish well.

However, at 36km my Garmin decided it was full of data and stopped recording. So I ran the last 6km with no idea where I was. I was passing people all the time but hadn't a clue about whether I was going to make it. I was maxed out on effort pretty much but I did finish the last half mile quickly in a semi sprint.


It took me until 20 mins after finishing to get my phone and find out my time! That was so weird.


And I finished in 4:00:07 - can you fecking believe it??!

There's just no way to know if I could have found the 7 seconds if I had known where I was, I was working very hard for the last 5km.


Anybody got anything helpful to tell me that isn't a hopeless platitude for missing by 7 bleedin seconds??

Griff75

3.53 for me. Delighted to finally get the 4 hour monkey off my back! Through hallway in 1.57 and felt great until about 2 miles out - right leg started seizing up then but managed to finish at a reasonable pace. Well done to all who ran today

Murph_D

mmm -this is a sub-4 thread though, so I assume most people would be looking to avoid the kind off issues you describe. Is the cramp something you are now taking into account, or are you asking, what conditioning might reduce my cramping history, and how can I work towards that?



I hope I don't look like a hardass asking this, but what are you learning from these failures - taking all we've discussed in the thread into account?

ewc78

Murph_D wrote: »

mmm -this is a sub-4 thread though, so I assume most people would be looking to avoid the kind off issues you describe. Is the cramp something you are now taking into account, or are you asking, what conditioning might reduce my cramping history, and how can I work towards that?



I hope I don't look like a hardass asking this, but what are you learning from these failures - taking all we've discussed in the thread into account?

As contradictory as it may sound to what I said before the race on here, I actually don't see yesterday as a failure.
If anything it has given me the confidence that I never had before that I can do it.
Maybe I need the Nike next% to get that extra bit

Look it's not 24hrs yet I'll worry about why I didn't go under 4 in a few weeks. I got a massive PB and I'm going to enjoy that fact for a bit.
There will be other Marathons and I will get there, yesterday has me convinced of that.

ewc78

Griff75 wrote: »

3.53 for me. Delighted to finally get the 4 hour monkey off my back! Through hallway in 1.57 and felt great until about 2 miles out - right leg started seizing up then but managed to finish at a reasonable pace. Well done to all who ran today

Brilliant well done.

andrew1977

My fifth marathon yesterday and finally reached the promised land of sub 4 , came home in 3.58.

Means the world to reach this time , I took up running 6 years ago due to being overweight and the difference running has made to me has been huge .

Today I am slightly sore , but on cloud nine and one of the proudest moments of my life yesterday when I reached the home stretch and took another glance of my watch and knew I was there .

Thank you Dublin City marathon , I feel as good an achievement as Eliud Kipchoge did a few weeks back .
That sub 4 hour time is mine forever now .

The Black Oil

ewc78 wrote: »

Bad dose of cramping which cost me a bit as it was a walk jog to the finish line. Was borderline of making sub 4 at that stage.
I'm actually very happy with how it went, proves to me what a proper training block can do.
It's the first time I actually stuck to the training plan all the way.
Never cramp in training so it's hard to train yourself to deal with it or avoid it, or is it?
20 minute PB so I'm not complaining at all though

Congrats on the PB, for you as the OP of the thread. 20 minutes is massive over this distance. Well done.

S'

pc11 wrote: »

First marathon today.

I was bang on track for 4 hours all day pretty much. I went out very handy, maybe a little too handy, I dunno. At 12 miles I felt totally fresh, though at 15 miles I didn't feel quite so fresh any more. Halfway in 2:00:30 - perfect as I usually finish well.

However, at 36km my Garmin decided it was full of data and stopped recording. So I ran the last 6km with no idea where I was. I was passing people all the time but hadn't a clue about whether I was going to make it. I was maxed out on effort pretty much but I did finish the last half mile quickly in a semi sprint.


It took me until 20 mins after finishing to get my phone and find out my time! That was so weird.


And I finished in 4:00:07 - can you fecking believe it??!

There's just no way to know if I could have found the 7 seconds if I had known where I was, I was working very hard for the last 5km.


Anybody got anything helpful to tell me that isn't a hopeless platitude for missing by 7 bleedin seconds??

I feel your pain. I finished in 4:00:01😂
Did the half in 2:00:10. The 3 toilet breaks early on did the damage.

chris85

Jumping in here to add my race. This was my 4th marathon and 3rd Dublin in a row. I have never went sub 4 hours (4.27, 4.12, 4.06) despite this being the goal for the last 2 marathons, was injured for first one so adjusted my goal beforehand.

This year I focused on doing all I could to go sub 4. I got some coaching from a fellow boardsie on here and set a goal to focus earlier in the year of improving my PB over shorter distances to then transfer this to the marathon this weekend. I raced all races with a PB this year taking over 10 minutes off my 10M PB, 8 minutes off my half time and other improvements as well.

I had trained well and few months back I set an ambitious goal of 3:30 based on my race times and training. All was going well till 21 miles were I cramped up a bit but never stopped and held for a 3:35 finish.

Absolutely delighted and a 31 minute PB which can have no complaints with.

Murph_D

chris85 wrote: »

Jumping in here to add my race. This was my 4th marathon and 3rd Dublin in a row. I have never went sub 4 hours (4.27, 4.12, 4.06) despite this being the goal for the last 2 marathons, was injured for first one so adjusted my goal beforehand.

This year I focused on doing all I could to go sub 4. I got some coaching from a fellow boardsie on here and set a goal to focus earlier in the year of improving my PB over shorter distances to then transfer this to the marathon this weekend. I raced all races with a PB this year taking over 10 minutes off my 10M PB, 8 minutes off my half time and other improvements as well.

I had trained well and few months back I set an ambitious goal of 3:30 based on my race times and training. All was going well till 21 miles were I cramped up a bit but never stopped and held for a 3:35 finish.

Absolutely delighted and a 31 minute PB which can have no complaints with.

That's how it's done. Brilliant result, congrats.

Dealerz2.0

chris85 wrote: »

Jumping in here to add my race. This was my 4th marathon and 3rd Dublin in a row. I have never went sub 4 hours (4.27, 4.12, 4.06) despite this being the goal for the last 2 marathons, was injured for first one so adjusted my goal beforehand.

This year I focused on doing all I could to go sub 4. I got some coaching from a fellow boardsie on here and set a goal to focus earlier in the year of improving my PB over shorter distances to then transfer this to the marathon this weekend. I raced all races with a PB this year taking over 10 minutes off my 10M PB, 8 minutes off my half time and other improvements as well.

I had trained well and few months back I set an ambitious goal of 3:30 based on my race times and training. All was going well till 21 miles were I cramped up a bit but never stopped and held for a 3:35 finish.

Absolutely delighted and a 31 minute PB which can have no complaints with.

This is fantastic to read- well done

sibeen99

Well done everyone on your DCM performances. It’s great when it goes to plan but we’ve all had days when it doesn’t. Thankfully it was a good day for me, 3:57. Delighted and relieved.

I followed p and d and really enjoyed the plan especially some of the sessions towards the end. Mentally I think that really stood to me. I would definitely use that plan again. I felt good most of the way round, started behind the 4 hour pacers then worked my way up past them. I found it very congested and it was difficult to push on in the last few miles due to the crowds but it was a great day. After a 4:00:08 earlier this year I know how hard it is to miss a target. Such is the beast that is the marathon!

Itziger

andrew1977 wrote: »

My fifth marathon yesterday and finally reached the promised land of sub 4 , came home in 3.58.

Means the world to reach this time , I took up running 6 years ago due to being overweight and the difference running has made to me has been huge .

Today I am slightly sore , but on cloud nine and one of the proudest moments of my life yesterday when I reached the home stretch and took another glance of my watch and knew I was there .

Thank you Dublin City marathon , I feel as good an achievement as Eliud Kipchoge did a few weeks back .
That sub 4 hour time is mine forever now .

You're doing something wrong!! Slightly sore............

The Black Oil

3:51:22 for me this year, PB of 6:03. Had a great a experience out there, amazing crowds again. https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=111645662&postcount=368

I'll steal a question from the novices mentor. For those of you broke through this year, or came close, what did you learn?

ISOP

The Black Oil wrote: »

3:51:22 for me this year, PB of 6:03. Had a great a experience out there, amazing crowds again. https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=111645662&postcount=368

I'll steal a question from the novices mentor. For those of you broke through this year, or came close, what did you learn?

Pick a training plan and try to stick to it. I was always half arsed in my approach. Put in the work and reap the reward

sibeen99

The Black Oil wrote: »

3:51:22 for me this year, PB of 6:03. Had a great a experience out there, amazing crowds again. https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=111645662&postcount=368

I'll steal a question from the novices mentor. For those of you broke through this year, or came close, what did you learn?

Believe in your plan and trust the training. Mental preparation is as important as the physical prep.

carter3

Well done to everyone on their great times.

My story is I have been running for about 6 years and I have mainly done 10ks / 10ms / half’s and the dublin marathon for the last 6 years (about 50 races in total). My current level is roughly - 48min 10k / 1:25 10 mile / 1:55 half

I have always trained fairly diligently for the marathon but struggled with endurance and my experience of it is that I tend to start run walking after 17 miles and finish 4:30-5 hrs.

Ironically my best marathon was in 2018 where I had planned not to do the marathon until September and focussed on the shorter stuff. I felt sharper, ran less but faster and pb’d all distances 46/1:18/1:44.i ended up doing a couple of 20 milers after the dublin half but my mileage was generally low compared with previous years and pb’d in 4:17.

I said I’d try and break the 4 in 2019 and although my times over the shorter distances slowed I got a good block of training done, never dropping below 30 miles per week over the last 9 weeks before dublin. Unfortunately, despite setting out at 4:10 pace (came through halfway at 2:05) I was slowing badly from about 15 and decided to call it a day dropping out at 19m.

I have signed up to another attempt in 2020 and the prep starts now. I plan to focus on shorter distances until next summer and try and replicate what worked for me in 2018. i think coupling this with getting my mileage up to 40miles per week in the run in it should be enough. I feel with work I can possibly hit sub 45 / 1:15 / 1:40 but part of me thinks I should maybe focus on high volume aerobic work instead.

Has anyone had a similar experience of hitting the target paces in the shorter distances but being unable to convert it into a sub 4 and if so what did they find worked for them? Thanks

Swashbuckler

carter3 wrote:

Has anyone had a similar experience of hitting the target paces in the shorter distances but being unable to convert it into a sub 4 and if so what did they find worked for them? Thanks

Not a marathon runner myself (yet) but can I fire a few questions your way?

What plan were you following for the marathon attempt? And how long was the plan?

How many days a week were you running?

Of those days how was the running constructed ie spread evenly across the week or long days and short days? How were the long runs progressed over the weeks?

What pace were the easy runs?

Any tempos or sessions in the plan?

How was the diet/lifestyle/stress?

May seem like I'm prying but all relevant to why you may have struggled to push on to that extra level.

The Black Oil

50 races in 6 years - what way, all fairly going for it? Do you taper? Think you've the answers in your post. The endurance and mileage dimensions, perhaps. And what way did you tackle the 20 milers? You don't have to break all PBs next year. It doesn't always happen. Join in the novices thread in 2020. Have a look at the 2019 one. https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057978706

Maybe treat half as a long run and not a race.

carter3

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Not a marathon runner myself (yet) but can I fire a few questions your way?

What plan were you following for the marathon attempt? And how long was the plan? I wasn’t following a plan to the letter but generally speaking was running 2 easy 5m per week, a longer (maybe 7 midweek), one session and a long run(got up to 2 18milers). I had consulted plans to tailor it to suit my life (running wife and 3 kids)

How many days a week were you running? 5 runs

Of those days how was the running constructed ie spread evenly across the week or long days and short days? How were the long runs progressed over the weeks? I was trying to add 1m per week to the long run over 12 weeks

What pace were the easy runs? 9:30 pace easy and the same pace for long runs

Any tempos or sessions in the plan? Yeah I tried to run one hard one per week. They were sometimes 400m intervals but as I progressed I tried to do something like 3 x 1 mile at 7:45 pace

How was the diet/lifestyle/stress? Diet could have been better. I am a demon for sweets but trying to overhaul that now! I was 5kg heavier than 2018 and that defo made a diff. I’m male 5’7 and 11st10. Busy dad but I don’t have too much stress

May seem like I'm prying but all relevant to why you may have struggled to push on to that extra level.

thanks for taking the time

Swashbuckler

Fair play for getting 5 days a week in. I know all about trying to structure running around family so fair play. You have a running wife which I consider a blessing as she understands you need to run! I wish my wife ran!

There's definitely some low hanging fruit. The lifestyle ones are obvious so I won't dwell there. Haha. Honestly though it took me a long time to understand how important diet plays a part.

On the running front;

Get a plan if you can. It's too hard to make it up as you go along. That being said if you're consistently doing those 5 day weeks that's a good start.

Slow down those easy miles. They're much too close to your marathon pace. This is negatively impacting your endurance.

Given where you're coming from I think 2x18 miles is not enough. Again, this is probably negatively impacting your endurance.

Consider following the marathon novices thread or following one of those plans. Time and time again every year they've proven to work.

The single biggest improvement someone in your position can do is run more easy miles, like 90% of weekly mileage slower than 10 minutes/mile. You need to build your base more than anything and that's how you'll do it.

I understand its not easy though with family. As runners become more experienced there are creative ways of maximising training on low volume. Unfortunately in your case its all about easy and lots of it.

Laineyfrecks

carter3 wrote: »

Well done to everyone on their great times.

My story is I have been running for about 6 years and I have mainly done 10ks / 10ms / half’s and the dublin marathon for the last 6 years (about 50 races in total). My current level is roughly - 48min 10k / 1:25 10 mile / 1:55 half

I have always trained fairly diligently for the marathon but struggled with endurance and my experience of it is that I tend to start run walking after 17 miles and finish 4:30-5 hrs.

Ironically my best marathon was in 2018 where I had planned not to do the marathon until September and focussed on the shorter stuff. I felt sharper, ran less but faster and pb’d all distances 46/1:18/1:44.i ended up doing a couple of 20 milers after the dublin half but my mileage was generally low compared with previous years and pb’d in 4:17.

I said I’d try and break the 4 in 2019 and although my times over the shorter distances slowed I got a good block of training done, never dropping below 30 miles per week over the last 9 weeks before dublin. Unfortunately, despite setting out at 4:10 pace (came through halfway at 2:05) I was slowing badly from about 15 and decided to call it a day dropping out at 19m.

I have signed up to another attempt in 2020 and the prep starts now. I plan to focus on shorter distances until next summer and try and replicate what worked for me in 2018. i think coupling this with getting my mileage up to 40miles per week in the run in it should be enough. I feel with work I can possibly hit sub 45 / 1:15 / 1:40 but part of me thinks I should maybe focus on high volume aerobic work instead.

Has anyone had a similar experience of hitting the target paces in the shorter distances but being unable to convert it into a sub 4 and if so what did they find worked for them? Thanks

Just gonna throw my opinion in here for what it's worth! I was a hobby runner (only really ran on lunch break for weight/health issues) then i decided to try a few races Jan this year...not too shabby results so decided to sign up for my 1st marathon! Stumbled across the novice thread and found it absolutely amazing!! I was constantly a fast runner, every run was trying to beat my last time! I really couldn't grasp the idea of slowing down to get a good time! I struggled with this & kept getting told to slow down. Once i did i loved it as it felt so comfortable for my long slow runs. I also know how hard it is to fit runs in around family life...its tough but somehow i just made it work...again if there was other runners in the house they might get it but there's not! I followed my plan & got some amazing advice here, i run alone so 100% it helped! The advice i would give is to consider joining the novice plan next year.
Very best of luck to you

carter3

Thanks guys. Some great advice there and I definitely think the I need to slow down the long runs up the volume and be more diligent with following a plan. I will try and get involved with next years novice group too.

Swashbuckler

carter3 wrote:

Thanks guys. Some great advice there and I definitely think the I need to slow down the long runs up the volume and be more diligent with following a plan. I will try and get involved with next years novice group too.

Best of luck with it. Keep us updated

ewc78

First run back today. Stiff as a board.
Signed up for DCM 2020 on friday.
We Go Again.