Squatters rights?

Graces7

Would appreciate any gen please?.

Can someone claim squatters rights on eg a council carpark or eg working pier? If this happens what next?

LirW

I think there was a post on here a year ago or so where a street of houses had a patch of land on the opposite side where everyone was hanging clothes and they realised that it didn't belong to anyone and since it was used for two or three decades by the residents they were able to claim squatter's rights.

I understand that you can to that on every kind of property or land as long as you occupy it for over 12 years and no effort was made to remove you or an owner came forward. Then you can apply for adverse possession but you need somewhat of a proof for the whole thing. I'm not sure if you need to prove your efforts to legally acquire the property.
Open to any corrections please!

Graces7

LirW wrote: »

I think there was a post on here a year ago or so where a street of houses had a patch of land on the opposite side where everyone was hanging clothes and they realised that it didn't belong to anyone and since it was used for two or three decades by the residents they were able to claim squatter's rights.

I understand that you can to that on every kind of property or land as long as you occupy it for over 12 years and no effort was made to remove you or an owner came forward. Then you can apply for adverse possession but you need somewhat of a proof for the whole thing. I'm not sure if you need to prove your efforts to legally acquire the property.
Open to any corrections please!

Man is saying 6 months and someone else that there is a new law saying 12 weeks not years?

LirW

http://www.cahirsolicitors.com/adverse-possession

That explains it quite well I'd say.

L1011

Graces7 wrote: »

Man is saying 6 months and someone else that there is a new law saying 12 weeks not years?

People are making stuff up and lying to you

Cuddlesworth

Graces7 wrote: »

Would appreciate any gen please?.

Can someone claim squatters rights on eg a council carpark or eg working pier? If this happens what next?

Both examples are usually state owned land.

After the travellers hit the land en mass beside Rathfarnham shopping center in the early 2000's and did crazy damage, the government enacted new laws.

Anybody who set up shop like that now can be moved on by the gardai and fined and arrested for trespassing.

As for adverse possession, its almost impossible.

Graces7

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Both examples are usually state owned land.

After the travellers hit the land en mass beside Rathfarnham shopping center in the early 2000's and did crazy damage, the government enacted new laws.

Anybody who set up shop like that now can be moved on by the gardai and fined and arrested for trespassing.

As for adverse possession, its almost impossible.

Thanks and as I thought and hoped. I have emailed the relevant authorities. Not me being hoodwinked by the way but those close to me who are easily fooled.
I did warn the TD that this might happen.

Glass fused light

Graces7 wrote: »

Would appreciate any gen please?.

Can someone claim squatters rights on eg a council carpark or eg working pier? If this happens what next?

Anyone can claim it at any time, but see LirW's link for it to be actionable.


A council carpark, well first they send in the clampers then the tow truck*

A working pier, well first the fisher folk ask you politely to move, then they ask you politely if you can swim**



* may require court action.
** may result in court action.

LirW

Just a fun fact, my mother living in Spain told me that there is a huge Squatter problem there because squatter's rights kick in within the matter of days and you see that quite a bit actually where people just live in a few units of largely abandoned developments and urbanisations. Bigger problem is though when squatters go for holiday homes when people aren't there, that's a huge issue to get them out again.

Graces7

LirW wrote: »

Just a fun fact, my mother living in Spain told me that there is a huge Squatter problem there because squatter's rights kick in within the matter of days and you see that quite a bit actually where people just live in a few units of largely abandoned developments and urbanisations. Bigger problem is though when squatters go for holiday homes when people aren't there, that's a huge issue to get them out again.

What is puzzling me is that someone close to me who is very much on the ball on these things, told me way back that there was some new provision ie 12 weeks of residency? It was when things were going badly here and i was worrying lest the council refused to let me stay with no power.
Oh and I had to have done some improvements to the property

Maybe something different altogether?

Glass fused light

Graces7 wrote: »

What is puzzling me is that someone close to me who is very much on the ball on these things, told me way back that there was some new provision ie 12 weeks of residency? It was when things were going badly here and i was worrying lest the council refused to let me stay with no power.
Oh and I had to have done some improvements to the property

Maybe something different altogether?

If you are occupying with the permission of the Council you never gain squatters rights.

Graces7

This gets complicated?So you cannot just say to neighbours, I now have sqautters rights to this council owned carpark/pier? And tel folk there is nothing now anyone can do about it and I can do what i like here now?

And they believe him!

Glass fused light

Graces7 wrote: »

This gets complicated?So you cannot just say to neighbours, I now have sqautters rights to this council owned carpark/pier? And tel folk there is nothing now anyone can do about it and I can do what i like here now?

And they believe him!

If the person is making physical changes you can report it by phone or in person to the council enfore enforcement in planning and also to whoever is responsible for the 2 areas and
to the Gardai as suspected criminal damage.
and explain if you believe that the action would endanger a member of the public.

If you are in the location and approached by the individual neighbour to run you off, you could call the local Garda station and ask them to attend however unless you have a pressing need I would just leave and later make a complaint.


If it's a claim of ownership it's best to write to the Council and describe location, the claims, who made the and any action taken by the claimant ask if its CC property and if it is, that they confirm or deny the claims.

runawaybishop

Graces7 wrote: »

Would appreciate any gen please?.

Can someone claim squatters rights on eg a council carpark or eg working pier? If this happens what next?

You can claim, but will 99% be unsuccessful. Council properly is treated differently and you need sole possession, not sure how likely that would be in those 2 locations. Can you be more specific?

Graces7

Glass fused light wrote: »

If the person is making physical changes you can report it by phone or in person to the council enfore enforcement in planning and also to whoever is responsible for the 2 areas and
to the Gardai as suspected criminal damage.
and explain if you believe that the action would endanger a member of the public.

If you are in the location and approached by the individual neighbour to run you off, you could call the local Garda station and ask them to attend however unless you have a pressing need I would just leave and later make a complaint.


If it's a claim of ownership it's best to write to the Council and describe location, the claims, who made the and any action taken by the claimant ask if its CC property and if it is, that they confirm or deny the claims.

Great! Thank you. I had already emailed the Planning office and our local TD.

The person thinks all he has to do is tell us he is claiming squatters rights and that is IT .

Cuddlesworth

Ignoring the 30 years of zero state interest in the land and proof of that.

L1011

State body land has an even harder and realistically insurmountable barrier to claim adverse possession as far as I remember. 30 years and it resets to 0 even if someone comes to inspect it or something like that.

I may be wrong, didn't go digging to check

Graces7

The_Conductor wrote: »

Grace- they are being delusional- 100% definitely contact your local representatives- and the local authority/council- stupidity like this has to be stopped.

Yep. I already tried a few months back though when some of us saw this coming. Trouble is, the folk here believe him...

Emails went earlier and I will follow this up. Checking all with a friendly barrister I know .

Thanks.. manipulative is the word I would use. He knows exactly what he is doing.

But so do I now.. Thank you

Glass fused light

L1011 wrote: »

State body land has an even harder and realistically insurmountable barrier to claim adverse possession as far as I remember. 30 years and it resets to 0 even if someone comes to inspect it or something like that.

I may be wrong, didn't go digging to check

One of the Irish rail cases I read the judge basicly said it 30 years from when IR decide to bring the land into service. Which I suppose eliminates annexing the railway bank by cutting the grass or letting your garden plants seed the land.

Graces7

Thank you. boards ie is amazing!

I was intrigued re the 30 years and google found me this..

https://www.irishexaminer.com/farming/news/what-are-squatters-rights-exactly-308255.html

"ALL" I have to do now is motivate the right authorities.. there are aspects of this that are very worrying that I cannot post here.

ted1

Graces7 wrote: »

Would appreciate any gen please?.

Can someone claim squatters rights on eg a council carpark or eg working pier? If this happens what next?

Yes, it was done in Dunsink Lane


https://amp.independent.ie/irish-news/squatter-will-be-paid-1m-by-council-to-leave-12acre-site-26296663.html

Nekarsulm

Graces7 wrote: »

Thank you. boards ie is amazing!

I was intrigued re the 30 years and google found me this..

https://www.irishexaminer.com/farming/news/what-are-squatters-rights-exactly-308255.html

"ALL" I have to do now is motivate the right authorities.. there are aspects of this that are very worrying that I cannot post here.

There was a legal case for adverse possession taken a few years back, which failed due to the fact that the landowner had pulled up on the road to look over the hedge at his fields, and could prove it.

Due to the fact that farmland is traditionally mapped to the centre line of the public road, it was held that he was on his land while standing on the grass verge of the road.

The Irish Times published the judgment in a half page report. Could be 10 years ago now.

Glass fused light

ted1 wrote: »

Yes, it was done in Dunsink Lane


https://amp.independent.ie/irish-news/squatter-will-be-paid-1m-by-council-to-leave-12acre-site-26296663.html

That report says settlement, had the courts granted adverse possession needing the CPO or was it more economic to pay them to move?

" Fingal said it would address the illegal occupation of its own lands, and that returning the lands to their legal use would be done in the most cost-effective way possible. "

ted1

Glass fused light wrote: »

ted1 wrote: »

Yes, it was done in Dunsink Lane


https://amp.independent.ie/irish-news/squatter-will-be-paid-1m-by-council-to-leave-12acre-site-26296663.html

That report says settlement, had the courts granted adverse possession needing the CPO or was it more economic to pay them to move?

" Fingal said it would address the illegal occupation of its own lands, and that returning the lands to their legal use would be done in the most cost-effective way possible. "

They secured squatters rights and the reached and agreement on the CPO

Cuddlesworth

ted1 wrote: »

They secured squatters rights and the reached and agreement on the CPO

Yep, law was changed as I said in 2002 to 30 years for council owned land. But in fairness, if they lived there for 20 years and ran multiple businesses then its really on the council. They cost themselves and the public the money through incompetence and laziness.

wexie

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

They cost themselves and the public the money through incompetence and laziness.

Who....the council?


Nooooooh?!!!

Glass fused light

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Yep, law was changed as I said in 2002 to 30 years for council owned land. But in fairness, if they lived there for 20 years and ran multiple businesses then its really on the council. They cost themselves and the public the money through incompetence and laziness.

Imagine having to put in halting sites, I would say the public may have gotten value for money if you take account of the cost of housing and refurbing for 400 for up to 20 years plus it would appear that the State got money back for the "tax difficulties".

Graces7

PrettyBoy wrote: »

Whoever told you it was 12 weeks isn't on the ball as you put it - they haven't got a clue.

Ah that was apparently a different matter and not this.. sorted!

Graces7

Graces7 wrote: »

Thank you. boards ie is amazing!

I was intrigued re the 30 years and google found me this..

https://www.irishexaminer.com/farming/news/what-are-squatters-rights-exactly-308255.html

"ALL" I have to do now is motivate the right authorities.. there are aspects of this that are very worrying that I cannot post here.

Well! I had email back immediately from my TD that he was contacting the council.. Opened my email to find he had done so to great effect.. They apparently had no idea re the situation here.. Also I am in touch with the Gardai re the abuse a while ago and yes the same person, and our local Garda will be over on polling day about various issues.

Am impressed! None of them have been here you see.

A good TD makes all the difference.

Please God they follow through.

What got me was that the local folk believed him re the 6 months etc .

Greaney

I hope what I say helps... This is with regard to private land, but not council.

To squat land/property, you have to, without asking anyone permission, enter the property and occupy it. 'establish dominion' (plant spuds etc.), 'to the exclusion of all others' for a period of 12 years.

You then have to be able to prove it all in a court of law. Not very easy.

Take in those phrases very carefully.

Graces7

Greaney wrote: »

I hope what I say helps... This is with regard to private land, but not council.

To squat land/property, you have to, without asking anyone permission, enter the property and occupy it. 'establish dominion' (plant spuds etc.), 'to the exclusion of all others' for a period of 12 years.

Take in those phrases very carefully. It's not easy.

A neat summing up. I found some fascinating examples on google.

Greaney

Graces7 wrote: »

A neat summing up. I found some fascinating examples on google.

I have a really good example. My grandfather was an engineer and a neighbour came in to ask his advice on the matter. My grandfather was reluctant to help him until he realised the neighbour was genuine and it referred to a field that was abandoned by the owner, who went to Australia after WW2. It's a good long winded story for the pub so I won't go into it, but the property was genuinely 'up for grabs' if you will. The chap who squatted, used it, documented it and before going to court, he looked for the original owner (or their 'issue') in Australia and documented that too (just notices in parish news letters). He was patient and squatted 20 years.

Anyway, the upshot was.. along came the property boom, and early in it, he sold the property for over €3m, it was prime location in Galway. Developers bought it, built gambled, resold apartments, refinanced it. I won't say where it is in case it's controversial, however, the patient squatter was a big contrast to the speculating developers. If the MODs says it's okay I can tell ye the building.

Cuddlesworth

Greaney wrote: »

I have a really good example. My grandfather was an engineer and a neighbour came in to ask his advice on the matter. My grandfather was reluctant to help him until he realised the neighbour was genuine and it referred to a field that was abandoned by the owner, who went to Australia after WW2. It's a good long winded story for the pub so I won't go into it, but the property was genuinely 'up for grabs' if you will. The chap who squatted, used it, documented it and before going to court, he looked for the original owner (or their 'issue') in Australia and documented that too (just notices in parish news letters). He was patient and squatted 20 years.

Anyway, the upshot was.. along came the property boom, and early in it, he sold the property for over €3m, it was prime location in Galway. Developers bought it, built gambled, resold apartments, refinanced it. I won't say where it is in case it's controversial, however, the patient squatter was a big contrast to the speculating developers. If the MODs says it's okay I can tell ye the building.

That's a good example of why adverse possession exists, prime land in a good location that is going to waste but its value is propped up by the taxes that we pay. Even if he made money on it, he did the state a favour.

Greaney

Exactly! I think it's a good example of a) how to do it right, and b) why squatting, occasionally, is not immoral. It does serve a purpose, it was never meant as a way to steal property, but to keep it in use. Which is why (and you'll forgive me for ranting a bit), I do think it's immoral to property hoard. It does seem as if the great Irish business plan is to buy property and wait for... social change???? If one is blessed with a bit of wealth, one has responsibility to 'work it'.

Graces7

Just updating. All sorted .
No more wannabbee on the carpark here,,

The authorities have been great.

LirW wrote: »

I think there was a post on here a year ago or so where a street of houses had a patch of land on the opposite side where everyone was hanging clothes and they realised that it didn't belong to anyone and since it was used for two or three decades by the residents they were able to claim squatter's rights.

I understand that you can to that on every kind of property or land as long as you occupy it for over 12 years and no effort was made to remove you or an owner came forward. Then you can apply for adverse possession but you need somewhat of a proof for the whole thing. I'm not sure if you need to prove your efforts to legally acquire the property.
Open to any corrections please!

Graces7

Graces7 wrote: »

Just updating. All sorted .
No more wannabbee on the carpark here,,

The authorities have been great.

Incredibly he is back.. his caravan was not removed. Something re a problem with who actually owns the bit of land it is on...

antoinolachtnai

Graces7 wrote: »

Incredibly he is back.. his caravan was not removed. Something re a problem with who actually owns the bit of land it is on...

You need to keep up pressure on the authorities. Even if there is an issue over land title, he still doesn’t have planning permission.

Sleeper12

Graces7 wrote:

Man is saying 6 months and someone else that there is a new law saying 12 weeks not years?

Not a chance this is true. The time scale is decades rather than weeks

The_Conductor

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Not a chance this is true. The time scale is decades rather than weeks

From memory- I think it was increased from 13 years to 20 years- a few years ago- I'll have a look later and see if I can find the change...........

Sleeper12

Cuddlesworth wrote:

After the travellers hit the land en mass beside Rathfarnham shopping center in the early 2000's and did crazy damage,

I had a business in the area at the time. I thought it was late 80s this happened but regardless the settled travellers up behind nutgrove shopping centre wanted them moved on too. Traveller crime increased in the area & like here on boards.ie people blamed all the travellers in the area even though many had lived there years & had jobs

Graces7

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

You need to keep up pressure on the authorities. Even if there is an issue over land title, he still doesn’t have planning permission.

Done! Copious emails sent..and legal advice taken on their content..

Graces7

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Not a chance this is true. The time scale is decades rather than weeks

Ah thank you but that was sorted here on the thread thankfully.