Vegan diet.

Dylan12345

Hi there,

I've recently been educating myself about the whole vegan diet. Plant based diet or whatever. I have been on a vegan diet for about a week now. I'm still very new to this, but I'm concerned about my B12. I drink Almond Milk which claims to have calcium, b2, b12 and vitamin c. How much would i want to be drinking a day or is the milk not enough?

Just trying not to become deficient in anything.

Thanks in advance!

Tar.Aldarion

Fortified milks generally have 15% RDA per 100ml so you'd be drinking a lot of that to keep up, ~670ml. Some people manage that due to cereal/tea/coffee. You can also buy a few things that are fortified and eat those or take a supplement. Nutritional yeast is really delicious and would cover your RDA with very little, it's flakes you put on food that have a nutty/cheesy kinda flavour, I would use it in sauces and on roast veg (or any food). It also has a lot of other nutrients.



I take a tablet every few 3-5 days personally as they are 1000% RDA, a couple years worth for €17 https://ie.iherb.com/pr/solgar-vitamin-b12-sublingual-1000-mcg-250-nuggets/8641

B12 is stored in the body for a long time, if you are getting it in some form you needn't worry too much. Get blood tests periodically if you feel the need and want to make sure you are getting everything you need. I wouldn't worry about having too much of it either as it is water soluble (you'll piss it out) and it's hard to take that much anyway.

This is a good place to read re fitness and nutrition questions: https://www.reddit.com/r/veganfitness/

gozunda

Dylan12345 wrote: »

Hi there,

I've recently been educating myself about the whole vegan diet. Plant based diet or whatever. I have been on a vegan diet for about a week now. I'm still very new to this, but I'm concerned about my B12. I drink Almond Milk* which claims to have calcium, b2, b12 and vitamin c. How much would i want to be drinking a day or is the milk not enough?

Just trying not to become deficient in anything.

Thanks in advance!

Most contain added B12 but we wary - a lot of the plant based liquids* also contain a wide range of additives including high levels of sugar / sweeteners ...

In relation to the above -
*European Court of Justice ruling (2017) now prohibit the use of the terms 'milk' to describe these products...

Good article on B12 rda here

http://www.b12-vitamin.com/rda/

Mellor

gozunda wrote: »

*European High Court ruling (2017) now prohibit the use of the terms 'milk' to describe these products...

Seems a bit trivial. I doubt anyone is under the illusion that Almond milk comes from almond flavoured cows.

gozunda

Mellor wrote: »

Seems a bit trivial. I doubt anyone is under the illusion that Almond milk comes from almond flavoured cows.

You may wish to tell that to the European Court of Justice

https://www.dairyreporter.com/Article/2017/06/14/Plant-based-products-can-t-use-dairy-names-European-Court-of-Justice

The fact that large multinationals are promoting their products off the back of the dairy industry by calling their plant based liquids 'milk' might be more relevant.

Tar.Aldarion

It's just agricultural lobbying. Almond milk has been a product for like 1000 years, people got on fine.

Mellor

gozunda wrote: »

You may wish to tell that to the European Court of Justice

https://www.dairyreporter.com/Article/2017/06/14/Plant-based-products-can-t-use-dairy-names-European-Court-of-Justice

The fact that large multinationals are promoting their products off the back of the dairy industry by calling their plant based liquids 'milk' might be more relevant.

The products are almost universally used as milk alternatives. I really don't see any issue.

Didn’t take long for the usual suspects to take it off topic.

You will need to take a b12 supplement once or twice a week depending what strength you buy.

I’ve taken this from nutritionfacts.org - the easiest and most inexpensive way to get one’s B12 is to take at least 2,500 mcg (µg) of cyanocobalamin once each week, ideally as a chewable, sublingual, or liquid supplement (you can’t take too much–all you get is expensive pee). - this is what I do. I just pop one every Monday morning.

Will be interested to know how you get on and if find your feeling healthier for the change. Some research showing that the body will recover quicker on a plant based diet.

Enjoy your almond milk too. I absolutely love it !

You’ll also be better off avoiding all the shíte that is in cows milk like pus and casein and so on.

gozunda

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

It's just agricultural lobbying. Almond milk has been a product for like 1000 years, people got on fine.

Mass marketing by multinationals flogging plant based liquids with added B12 hasn't though. Outside the mediterrean almond 'milk' (sic) was certainly NOT a product for 'like 1000 years' lol. Ireland's traditional food base has been based on cattle and dairy products (and a natural source of B12) for millennia.

And importantly If you are picking almond 'milk' (sic) as being around for '1000 years' it is important to note that almonds are native to the specific areas of the mediterrean and now grown as a commercial crop there and elsewhere which require intensive cultivation with involves the use of huge amounts of water resources and high temperatures to grow properly.

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

The funniest thing was milk advertising calling dairy milk "plant based" in recent advertising here

You are correct - it was funny and imo a tongue in cheek response to plant 'milk'

gozunda

Mellor wrote: »

The products are almost universally used as milk alternatives. I really don't see any issue.

As pointed out that was the decision by the European Court of Justice. I dunno? Maybe take it up with the relevant body there? At the end of the day- plant derived liquids are no more 'milk' than they are 'honey'. Plus I'm sure various adherents wouldn't wish to be associated with the dairy industry which they continually have a go at .... :eek: Imo there's a lot more '****e' in processed plant liquids than anything found in regular milk despite the standard hyperbole given in response :rolleyes:

As it stands almonds do not naturally contain vit B12 whilst dairy products remain a very good source otherwise supplements are an option. Best of luck with it ...

jive

gozunda wrote: »

Most contain added B12 but we wary - a lot of the plant based liquids* also contain a wide range of additives including high levels of sugar / sweeteners ...

In relation to the above -
*European Court of Justice ruling (2017) now prohibit the use of the terms 'milk' to describe these products...

Good article on B12 rda here

http://www.b12-vitamin.com/rda/

You're obsessed. Stop taking every vegan thread off topic with trivial nonsense, your post has absolutely no relevance to the OP's question.

gozunda

jive wrote: »

You're obsessed. Stop taking every vegan thread off topic with trivial nonsense, your post has absolutely no relevance to the OP's question.

And how exactly does your post relate to the OPs post? :rolleyes:

I remember you - we met in the farming forum if I am correct. My views may be different to yours and that is it ...

Mellor

gozunda wrote: »

As pointed out that was the decision by the European Court of Justice. I dunno? Maybe take it up with the relevant body there?

Why would I take it up with the Courts? I couldn't care less what people call it.
Personally I'll continue to say it almond/coconut milk. It the Court of Justice want me to stop they can come to me.

gozunda

Mellor wrote: »

Why would I take it up with the Courts? I couldn't care less what people call it.
Personally I'll continue to say it almond/coconut milk. It the Court of Justice want me to stop they can come to me.

Your mean as it relates to you and not universally then?

mellor wrote:

The products are almost universally used as milk alternatives. I really don't see any issue.

Fair enough it's open for anyone to call anything they like . But I suppose on the most basic level it helps to avoid confusing others...

Mellor

gozunda wrote: »

Your mean as it relates to you and not universally then?

Well I can't control what other people call it - nor do I want to

What I call it, and how people universally use it are not unrelated. If everyone agrees to call it Almond juice, it's still used as a milk replacement Kinda odd that I have to point that out.

Fair enough it's open for anyone to call anything they like . But I suppose on the most basic level it helps to avoid confusing others...

If the phrase "Almond Milk" confuses you, I think the world will present much bigger problems.

s7ryf3925pivug

Yeah it's very confusing alright....

gozunda

Mellor wrote: »

Well I can't control what other people call it - nor do I want to
What I call it, and how people universally use it are not unrelated. If everyone agrees to call it Almond juice, it's still used as a milk replacement Kinda odd that I have to point that out.If the phrase "Almond Milk" confuses you, I think the world will present much bigger problems.

I think thats taking that matter a little bit literally / personally there tbh. It remains that the European Court of Justice made a ruling on the use of dairy related terminology used in the marketing and sale of plant derived liquids by multinationals and others. That does not change.

Does it matter what commercial companies call something? Well I believe it does as otherwise you are straying in the area of trade descriptions. And we all know plenty of commercial products (of which plant derived 'milk' is just one) have been subject to similar rulings, restrictions and name changes. Your views on calling a product by a whatever name you chose is therefore really of no consequence. Personally I could never could get used to calling a Star Bar - a Boost!

Where if it does matter relates to the confusion by people unfamiliar with such products who do not realise or know that plant derived liquids do not have the same nutrional status (eg B12 etc) of natural dairy milk and other dairy products. I guess the industry will have to get clever and come up with some new terminology to promote its products with.

Here's a fairly good comparison of milk and plant derived liquids I came across - even if the terminology is now out of date

https://bucketlisttummy.com/nutritionalbenefitsofmilk/

Mr. CooL ICE

gozunda wrote: »

I think thats taking that matter a little bit literally / personally there tbh. It remains that the European Court of Justice made a ruling on the use of dairy related terminology used in the marketing and sale of plant derived liquids by multinationals and others. That does not change.

Mod: The OP asked a question regarding nutrition. This is a thread on nutrition, and not what the ECJ or a marketing team somewhere calls something.

Dakota Dan

Almond juice contains only 2% almonds also low in protein.

Worztron

I much prefer Soy Milk (sweetened for cereal and unsweetened for tea). It also has far more protein than Almond Milk.

murphthesmurf

Dakota Dan wrote: »

Almond juice contains only 2% almonds also low in protein.

I was shocked to see this the other day. Herself was looking at getting some, so I read the label to see exactly what is in it and why so many people are turning to it. It was around 2% as you say almonds, the rest was water and if i remember right sugar. I really don't get it.
OP out of interest why are you going vegan? Purely health reasons or animal welfare? If you don't mind me asking.
I really don't buy this vegan is healthy line at all.

gozunda

murphthesmurf wrote: »

I was shocked to see this the other day. Herself was looking at getting some, so I read the label to see exactly what is in it and why so many people are turning to it. It was around 2% as you say almonds, the rest was water and if i remember right sugar. I really don't get it.
OP out of interest why are you going vegan? Purely health reasons or animal welfare? If you don't mind me asking.
I really don't buy this vegan is healthy line at all.

A lot of it is trendy atm - soya lattes and all that jazz. Unlike the OP people don't necessarily to any research into what they are being sold imo.

murphthesmurf

murphthesmurf wrote: »

I was shocked to see this the other day. Herself was looking at getting some, so I read the label to see exactly what is in it and why so many people are turning to it. It was around 2% as you say almonds, the rest was water and if i remember right sugar. I really don't get it.
OP out of interest why are you going vegan? Purely health reasons or animal welfare? If you don't mind me asking.
I really don't buy this vegan is healthy line at all.

I use almond milk because I'm allergic to dairy and soya milk is RANK imo

jive

Dakota Dan wrote: »

Almond juice contains only 2% almonds also low in protein.

Dairy milk can be up to 95% water, nobody dies from protein deficiency who has access to almond milk.

Wabbit Ears

B12 supplements weekly and you're grand. A bottle lasts ages and ages.

I use almond milk in cereal. The kids like oat milk or rice milk. Unsweetened soy for coffee. Next to never use dairy anymore.

Nutritional yeast (Holland and barret and a few other places) is a staple. Flour, that and Soy milk makes a grand white sauce for pastas etc. Also used in the making or various vegan cheeses and spreads.

gozunda

Dakota Dan wrote: »

Almond juice contains only 2% almonds also low in protein.

I like whole almonds as a snack etc tbh but large amounts of almonds can apparently cause a number of allergies / reactions in certain people. See:

https://www.balancemebeautiful.com/side-effects-of-almond-milk/

Dakota Dan

jive wrote: »

Dairy milk can be up to 95% water, nobody dies from protein deficiency who has access to almond milk.

It's more like 86% and humans are 60% water, the big difference is that milk is a natural product no need to add water. Almonds have to be crushed and 2% of them are only used to make almond juice.

Aye. It’s natural if you’re a calf or a human that wants to get fat.

Or a human not afraid to be exposed to the casein in milk which has been linked to causing cancer.

Or if your ok with drinking the pus that is in milk caused by mastitis. Up to 4 million somatic cells allowed per litre of milk in the EU. That’s a lot of pus.

The almond milk I buy is made from 14% organic almonds. You can shop around.

Alf Veedersane

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Or a human not afraid to be exposed to the casein in milk which has been linked to causing cancer.

Pretty sure thats not quite right. The thesis in any studies I've read on the subject have been on how it can promote the growth of cancer cells - not create cancer cells, ie they treated cancer cells with casein and it promotes growth in some.

Not quite the same as causing cancer...

jive

Dakota Dan wrote: »

It's more like 86% and humans are 60% water, the big difference is that milk is a natural product no need to add water. Almonds have to be crushed and 2% of them are only used to make almond juice.

You have to crush a teet to get milk, I guess milk is unnatural then

gozunda

Good analysis of plant based liquids here including almond and other types

Gives compositional and nutrional information.

https://theskepticalcardiologist.com/2017/06/24/are-plant-based-milks-the-margarine-of-the-21st-century/

An Ri rua

Just to give you a confidence boost. Maybe.
I went vegetarian at 20 on the day I held my childhood dog down as he was put down. Vegan later.
2 years ago, at 43 years of age, I was knocking out 100 Hindu squats and 120 Hindu Pushups and high reps of pullups.
Being vegan was tough in 1993 when I finished college and trying to recover after weights. But now? At 45? Nope. There's so much quality pre-made food and fresh food.
No need to satisfy your bloodlust like other less advanced mortals.

Very best of luck on your journey.

gozunda

jive wrote: »

You have to crush a teet to get milk, I guess milk is unnatural then

It is spelled 'teat'* lol.... you also have to crush almonds to make almond 'milk' so by that logic that's not natural either

Im not sure I understand the point you are making or how does it relate to the OPs query?

* A teat is squeezed and not 'crushed' btw

gozunda

gozunda wrote: »

It is spelled 'teat'* lol.... you also have to crush almonds to make almond 'milk' so by that logic that's not natural either

Im not sure I understand the point you are making or how does it relate to the OPs query?

* A teat is squeezed and not 'crushed' btw ; )

So now you’ve become a back seat moderator which is funny considering you were advised to try and stay on topic in this very thread yourself by an actual moderator.

It’s also a tad desperate of you to be picking people up on their spelling. I assume you’ll have no problem receiving the same treatment in future.

gozunda

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Aye. It’s natural if you’re a calf or a human ....
The almond milk I buy is made from 14% organic almonds. You can shop around.

Klopparama - staying on topic - I think I saw you said in another thread that you only ate food grown / produced in a 10 km radius - does that include the almond 'milk' you buy? It would be useful to know if we can source Irish grown / produced almond 'milk. I would be interested in that. Maybe you didn't see the reply?

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So now you’ve become a back seat moderator which is funny considering you were advised to try and stay on topic in this very thread yourself by an actual moderator. It’s also a tad desperate of you to be picking people up on their spelling. I assume you’ll have no problem receiving the same treatment in future.

Genuine question relating to the OPs query. And yes im sure the poster only made an small error in spelling hence the lol - no biggy

Eh 'off topic / back seat moderating lol'? -pot kettle black no?

Yes and hands up - my speeeling is atrocious at the best of times

threescompany

I agree with others , I take a b12 supplement x2 a week

murphthesmurf

If you have to take supplements to make up for it, does that not kind of defeat the point of it being healthy?

murphthesmurf

bluewolf wrote: »

I use almond milk because I'm allergic to dairy and soya milk is RANK imo

I tried Soya milk once in tea, one of the most vile substances ever produced. Couldn't even dunk a biscuit in it

murphthesmurf

Deleted User wrote: »

Or if your ok with drinking the pus that is in milk caused by mastitis. Up to 4 million somatic cells allowed per litre of milk in the EU.

Extra protein

Brian?

murphthesmurf wrote: »

If you have to take supplements to make up for it, does that not kind of defeat the point of it being healthy?

Do you think supplements are inherently unhealthy? I wouldn’t think so.

murphthesmurf

Brian? wrote: »

Do you think supplements are inherently unhealthy? I wouldn’t think so.

I'm talking about the Almond milk obviously. If it's so healthy why does it need to be supplemented.

Alf Veedersane

murphthesmurf wrote: »

I'm talking about the Almond milk obviously. If it's so healthy why does it need to be supplemented.

You could ask the same question about why Avonmore feel the need for a 'super milk, to be fair.

Almond milk is just a non-dairy substitute for milk.

s7ryf3925pivug

murphthesmurf wrote: »

If you have to take supplements to make up for it, does that not kind of defeat the point of it being healthy?

Brian? wrote: »

Do you think supplements are inherently unhealthy? I wouldn’t think so.

murphthesmurf wrote: »

I'm talking about the Almond milk obviously. If it's so healthy why does it need to be supplemented.

@mts You don’t understand the expression you tried to use.

gozunda

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

You could ask the same question about why Avonmore feel the need for a 'super milk, to be fair.
Almond milk is just a non-dairy substitute for milk.

Not to get into semantics - however:

Avonmore 'supermilk' a branded and specialised product. (A natural source of vitamin B12 and also fortified with additional vitamins)

It is therefore not directly comparable to either:

Almond 'milk' - as a generic product and not a brand. (Fortified with vitamin B12)

Or

Dairy 'milk - as a generic product and not a brand. (Natural source of vitamin B12)

Alf Veedersane

gozunda wrote: »

Not to get into semantics - however:

Avonmore 'supermilk' a branded and specialised product. (A natural source of vitamin B12 and also fortified with additional vitamins)

It is therefore not directly comparable to either:

Almond 'milk' - as a generic product and not a brand. (Fortified with vitamin B12)

Or

Dairy 'milk - as a generic product and not a brand. (Natural source of vitamin B12)

It's still supplementing with vitamins...that's the point.

So almond milk doesn't have as much B12. It's not that big a deal.

gozunda

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

It's still supplementing with vitamins...that's the point.

As I said I'm not getting into semantics however ASupermilk is not a comparable product to the point made by poster as almond 'milk' is 'supplemented' in order to equate to levels of B12 found in dairy milk.

Alf Veedersane

gozunda wrote: »

As I said I'm not getting into semantics however ASupermilk is not a comparable product to the point made by poster.

You're missing the point. It's still a milk supplementing with vitamins. Almond milk not having the same level of B12 isn't that big a deal that it needs pages going on about it

gozunda

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

You're missing the point. It's still a milk supplementing with vitamins. Almond milk not having the same level of B12 isn't that big a deal that it needs pages going on about it

And the point being that the comparable product -generic dairy milk - is not "a milk supplementing with vitamins"

No?. It's seems controversial enough though to have at least one page ....;)

Alf Veedersane

gozunda wrote: »

And the point being that the comparable product -generic dairy milk - is not "a milk supplementing with vitamins"

No?. It's seems controversial enough though to have at least page ....;)

There is still a market for a dairy milk that needs supplements added.

So milk or milk substitutes won't be the answer for our nutrient needs. Which is just as well considering I drink f**k all milk

gozunda

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

There is still a market for a dairy milk that needs supplements added.

So milk or milk substitutes won't be the answer for our nutrient needs. Which is just as well considering I drink f**k all milk

Ok it has extra vitamins added to it. Don't know about 'needs supplements added'.

#metoo

murphthesmurf

Elise Zealous Temptation wrote: »

@mts You don’t understand the expression you tried to use.

Look, the op was looking to use Almond milk as he'd read that it is more healthy. My point is that is not the case as if you have to take supplements to make up for what it lacks. You knew what I was getting at, if you didn't want you answer then just don't comment at all. But instead you decide to pick apart the sentence and then others start introducing 'Anonmore Super Milk'. Why so much diversion, over something so trivial as milk or Almond juice. Does it really mean that much to you?